Can Ahmadis & non-Ahmadis please answer

[Alpha1]

I must admit my ignorance on this matter, but can you please tell me why it is necessary for Isa (as) to have lived in Kashmir and died and to have been buried there? Does this facilitate in some way towards Mirz'a cliam to nabowat?

I read in another post one Ahmadi saying that the fact that the town of Muree in Pakistan has been named after Mary prooves that this must be the case.

I would like an explanation from the Mirzais and others please.

Thanks

[PakistaniAbroad]

I'll cover the non-Ahmadi's.

I'm unaware of where Jesus died and was buried. The matter is in fact insignificant for my faith, as long as I believe he was a true prophet of God.

I can only tell with certainty (reading the Qur'an) that he was naught but a mortal messenger and did indeed die, just like all other prophets before him.

[Shah Jahan]

Jesus isnt Dead!

(4.157) And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.
(4.158) Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Quran says he WASNT killed......

[PakistaniAbroad]

Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
Quran says he WASNT killed......

correction.. Qur'an says the Jews didn't kill him.

[ahmadjee]

Mirza Sahib's claim of prophet hood is in accordance with the prophecy of AnHazoor (saw) of a reformer to come in his ummat. He claimed to be a prophet in 1881-1882. His claim of being the Messiah is of the later years when Allah actually told him that Jesus (as) died a natural death and the belief about his ascension to heaven physically, is false and he himself is the Messiah prophesied by his master AnHazoor (saw). Messiah in spirit and duty as was the messiah of Israelites, Isa! The claim of Hazrat Isa (as) being buried in Kashmir has a background in research of Ahmadi Muslim scholars (namely Hazat Al-Haj Mulana Noor-ud-din Sahib) on the directives of Hazrat Mirza Sahib (as), who went to Kashmir and carried out his investigations. Ahmadis even pin point the Tomb of Jesus in Kashmir.

Shah Jahan, let me clear up one misconception here while I am at it. The verses you quoted say that the Jews killed him not, they only think that they did! And Ahmadi Muslim belief is exactly according to this verse. Jesus (as) did not die on the cross, it is claimed that he was alive when he was taken off from the cross and then migrated to the lost sheep (other tribes) of Israel.

[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited August 01, 2002).]

[zaksnoor]

[This message has been edited by zaksnoor (edited August 01, 2002).]

[zaksnoor]

(4.157) And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.
(4.158) Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

ARGUMENT: Allah says in the Holy Quran: "...But they killed him (Jesus) not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them and those who differ therein are full of doubt, with no (certain) knowledge but only conjecture to follow, for a surely they killed him not; Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise." (4:158-159)

REFUTATION. It is absurd to think that one who is killed, nor put to death by putting on the Cross has necessarily ascended bodily to heaven. Do the Non-Ahmadies believe that Hazrat MusaAS or the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be on him) are alive in heaven as they were neither killed nor put to death by crucifixion? Besides, the Arabic words Maa Salabooho do not deny the fact of Hadhrat Jesus'AS being nailed to the Cross but deny his having died on it as is clear from Arabic lexicon. They say Salaba Ash-Shaia, i.e., he burned the thing. Salabal Izama means, he extracted the marrow out of the bones. Salabal Lissa means, he crucified the thief, i.e., he put him to death in a certain well-known manner (Lane & Aqrab). In crucifixion one was nailed to a framework made in the form of a cross and, being kept without food and drink, slowly died of pain, hunger, fatigue, and exposure.

ARGUMENT: The words Wa Laakin Shubbiha Lahum in verse 4:158 means that the likeness of Hadhrat JesusAS was cast upon another person--Judas or somebody else who was then crucified in place of Hazrat Jesusas.

REFUTATION: The curious part of it is that there is not only one story that speaks of the casting of the likeness of Hadhrat JesusAS, there are several stories. But intelligent commentators like Abu Hayyaan have discarded all such stories. The word Shubbiha means, he was made to appear like, or was made to resemble. Now the question arises, who is the person who was made to appear "like one crucified". Clearly it was Hadhrat JesusAS whom the Jews tried to crucify or slay. Nobody else can be meant here, for there is absolutely no reference to any other person in the context. The context cannot be twisted as to make room for somebody else of whom no mention at all is made in the verse. To what then was Hadhrat JesusAS made like? The context provides a clear answer to that question. The Jews did not kill him by crucifixion, but he was made to appear to them like "one crucified", and thus it was that they wrongly took him for dead. It was thus Hadhrat JesusAS who was made to resemble "one crucified". This interpretation is not only in perfect harmony with the context but is also clearly borne out by all relevant facts of history.

The second meaning of the expression Shubbiha Lahum is, that "the matter became confused to them." This interpretation is also clearly borne out by history, for, although the Jews asserted that they had put Hadhrat JesusAS to death by suspending him on the Cross, they were not sure of it and the circumstances being obscure, the matter had certainly become confused to them. The fact that the Jews themselves were not sure whether Hadhrat JesusAS had actually died on the Cross is supported by the Bible and by all authentic historical facts.




IBN MARYAM--Son of Mary:

As the promised Imam was to be the Messiah, therefore, the Holy ProphetSAW called him the son of Mary. The name of one is generally given to another when there is striking resemblance between the two. Abu Sufyan, after meeting Heraclius, said to his companions: Laqad Amara Amrubno Abee Kabshata Innahoo Yakhaafohoo Maliko Banee Asfara--"Of a certainty, the son of Abee Kabshah has succeeded, because even the king of Bani Asfar fears him". (Bukhari) Everyone knows that the Holy ProphetSAW was not the son of Abi Kabshah, but Abu Sufyan calls him as such because he believed in the Unity of God like the son of Abi Kabshah.

Metaphors abound in all languages. Is it not a fact that a person who excels in the virtue of charity, is metaphorically called Hatam of Tai? If the name Ibn Maryam is the name of a known individual, is not Hatam the name of a known individual? If by giving this name to another person, nobody is misled into thinking that this person is the original Hatam, need anybody think that when the Promised One is named Isa Ibn Maryam or JesusAS, son of Mary, it must mean the self-same Hadhrat JesusAS, son of Mary, who appeared almost 2000 years ago?

Hence, when it is narrated in the Traditions that Jesus son of Mary will come, it should not be taken literally but rather to be understood in the metaphorical sense as has been interpreted by a scholar of great repute and regenerator of his century, Mohyuddin Ibn Arabi, when he says: "His descent in latter ages will be with a different body." (Tafsir Araisul Bayan, Vol. I, P. 262) So the inference of Non-Ahmadies from the above quoted tradition of Bukhari to prove the physical life of Jesus in heaven is altogether repugnant to the teachings of the Quran, the common metaphors, and to the high spiritual status of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of God be him)

[Degas]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ahmadjee:
Hazat Al-Haj Mulana Noor-ud-din Sahib) on the directives of Hazrat Mirza Sahib (as), who went to Kashmir and carried out his investigations. Ahmadis even pin point the Tomb of Jesus in Kashmir.

.. and u think more tahn billion muslims will believe Noor sahibs so called research! why didnt ur prophet got any wahi about it from God!

[sadeyes_neverlie]

Here is the introductory note to a book written by Mazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Sahib named 'Maseeh Hindustan Main' or 'Jesus in India'. Its a long extract but it comprehensively answers Alpha1. May Allah guide us all to right path and give us strength and courage to search for truth and to face it when its evident.

"
IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE BENEFICENT, THE MERCIFUL
WE PRAISE HIM AND INVOKE HIS BLESSINGS UPON HIS NOBLE PROPHET

Lord! Judge between us and our people with truth; Thou art the best of judges

I have written this book, so that, by adducing proofs from established facts, from conclusive historical evidence of proved value and from ancient documents of non-Muslims, I might remove the serious misconceptions which are current among Muslims and among most Christian sects regarding the earlier and the later life of Jesus (on whom be peace) - misconceptions, the dangerous implications of which have not only injured and destroyed the conception of Divine Unity, but the unwholesome and poisonous influence of which has for long been noticed in the morals of the Muslims of this country. Spiritual maladies, i.e., want of good morals, evil thoughts, callousness, want of sympathy, are spreading among most Islamic sects, being the result of beliefs in unfounded stories and anecdotes of this kind. Human sympathy, pity and love of justice, humility and humble-mindedness - all good qualities - are disappearing day by day, as if they will soon bid a last farewell to this community. This callousness and this immorality make many a Muslim appear no better than the beasts of the jungle. A Jain or a Buddhist is afraid of and avoids killing even a mosquito or a flea, but, alas! there are many among us Muslims who, while they kill an innocent man or commit wanton murder, are not afraid of the powerful God, who rates human life higher than that of all the animals. What is this callousness and cruelty and want of sympathy due to? It is due to this - that from their very childhood, stories and anecdotes and wrong views of the doctrine of Jehad are dinned into their ears and inculcated into their hearts, the result being that gradually they become morally dead and cease to feel the heinousness of their hateful actions; nay, rather, the man who murders another man unawares and thus brings ruin to the murdered man's family thinks that he has done a meritorious deed; or rather, that he has made the most of an opportunity to win favour with his community. As no lectures or sermons are delivered in our country to stop such evils - and if there are any such lectures they have an element of hypocrisy in them - the common people think approvingly of such misdeeds. Accordingly, taking pity upon my own people, I have compiled several books in Urdu, Persian and Arabic, in which I have stated that the popular view of Jehad prevalent among Muslims, that is, the expectation of a bloody Imam, full of spite and hostility for other people, is a texture of false beliefs inculcated by shortsighted Ulema; otherwise, Islam does not allow the use of the sword for the Faith; except in the case of defensive wars, or in the case of wars waged to punish a tyrant or to uphold freedom. The need of a defensive war arises when the aggression of an adversary threatens one's own life. These are the three kinds of Jehad permitted by the Shariat, and, apart from these three kinds, there is no other kind of war which is permitted by Islam for the propagation of the Faith. I have, in short, spent a large sum of money on such books, and have published them in this country and in Arabia and Syria and Khurasan, etc. But, by the grace of God, I have now discovered powerful arguments which are meant to eradicate these unfounded beliefs from the hearts of the people. I have clear proofs, circumstantial evidence of a conclusive character, and historical evidence the light of whose truth holds out the promise that soon after their publication there will be brought about against such beliefs a wonderful change in the hearts of the Muslims. And I hope - I am sure - that after these truths have been comprehended, there will flow out of the hearts of the righteous sons of Islam the sweet and beautiful springs of lowliness, humility and mercy, and that there will come about a spiritual change which will have a wholesome and a blessed influence on the country. I am also sure that Christian investigators and all other people who hanker after the truth and thirst for it, will benefit from my books. And the fact just now stated by me, that the real object of this book is to correct the wrong beliefs which have become part and parcel of the creeds of Muslims and Christians, requires a little explanation which I set out below.

Let it be known that most Muslims and Christians believe that Jesus (on whom be peace) went alive to the heavens; both these people have believed for a long time that Jesus (on whom be peace) is still alive in the heavens, and will sometime in the latter days come down to the earth. The difference in their views, i.e. the view of the followers of Islam and that of the Christians, is only this, that the Christians believe that Jesus (on whom be peace) died on the Cross, was resurrected, and went to the heavens in his earthly body, seated himself on the right hand of his Father, and will come to the earth in the latter days for judgment; they also say that the Creator and the Master of the world is this Jesus the Messiah and no one else; he it is who, in the latter days of the world, will descend to the earth with a glorious descent to award punishment and reward; then, all who will not believe in him or his mother as God, will be hauled up and thrown into hell, where weeping and wailing will be their lot. But the aforesaid sects of Muslims say that Jesus (on whom be peace) was not crucified, nor did he die on the Cross; on the other hand, when the Jews arrested him in order to crucify him an angel of God took him away to the heavens in his earthly body, and he is still alive in the heavens - which, they say, is the second heaven where is also the prophet Yahya, i.e. John. Muslims, moreover, also say that Jesus (on whom be peace) is an eminent prophet of God, but not God, nor the son of God, and, they believe that he will in the latter days descend to the earth, near the Minaret of Damascus or near some other place, supported on the shoulders of two angels, and that he and Imam Muhammad, the Mahdi, who will be already in the world, and who will be a Fatimite, will kill all the non-Muslims, not leaving anyone alive except those who will forthwith and without any delay become Muslims. In short, the real object of the descent of Jesus (on whom be peace) to the earth, as stated by Muslim sects known as Ahl-i-Sunnat or Ahl-i-Hadith called Wahabis by the common people - is that, like the Mahadev of the Hindus, he should destroy the whole world; that he should first threaten the people to become Muslims and then, if they persist in disbelief, massacre them all with the sword; they moreover say that he is alive in the heavens in his earthly body, so that, when Muslim powers become weak, he will come down and kill the non-Muslims or coerce them on pain of death to become Muslims. Regarding the Christians especially, the divines of the aforesaid sects state that when Jesus (on whom be peace) comes down from the heavens he will break all the Crosses in the world, do many a cruel deed with the sword, and inundate the world with blood. And, just as I have stated, these people, i.e. the Ahl-i-Hadith etc. from among the Muslims, are enthusiastic about their belief that a short time before the coming down of the Messiah there will appear an Imam from the Bani Fatima whose name will be Muhammad, the Mahdi. He it is who will be Khalifa and King of the time, and as he will belong to the Koraish, his real object will be to kill all non-Muslims except those who readily recite the Kalima. Jesus (on whom be peace) will come down in order to help him in his work; and although Jesus himself (on whom be peace) will be a Mahdi - nay, a greater Mahdi - yet, because it is essential that the Khalifa of the time should be a Koraish, Jesus (on whom be peace) will not be the Khalifa of the time; the Khalifa of the time will be that same Muhammad, the Mahdi. Muslims say that these two together will fill the earth with the blood of man, and they will shed more blood than has ever been shed before in the history of the world. No sooner will they appear than they will start this bloody campaign; they will neither preach nor plead, nor show any sign. And they also say that although Jesus (on whom be peace) will be like an adviser or a lieutenant of Imam Muhammad, the Mahdi, and although the reins of power will be in the hands of the Mahdi only, Jesus (on whom be peace) will instigate Hazrat Imam Muhammad, the Mahdi, to massacre the whole world and will advise him to adopt extreme measures, i.e. he will make amends for the humane teaching which he had given to the world before, namely, 'not to resist evil,' and, being struck on one cheek, 'to turn the other cheek also.'

This is what Muslims and Christians believe regarding Jesus (on whom be peace), and while it is a great error to call him, as the Christians do - a humble man - God, the beliefs of some of the followers of Islam, among whom is the sect called Ahl-i-Hadith also known as Wahabis, regarding a bloody Mahdi and a bloody Messiah, are affecting their morals very badly, so much so, that on account of their bad influence their dealings with other people are not based on honesty and good will, nor can they be truly and completely loyal to a non-Muslim Government. All reasonable men will realise that such a belief, namely, that non-Muslims should be subjected to coercion, that they should either forthwith become Muslims or be put to death, is open to the most serious objections. Every conscientious person will readily admit that before a man adequately realises the truth of a Faith, and before he has comprehended its beauties and its wholesome teachings, it is extremely undesirable to coerce him, on pain of death, to adopt that Faith. Far from contributing to the growth of that Faith, this would furnish the opponents with an opportunity to find fault with it. The ultimate result of a principle like this is that hearts become devoid of the quality of human sympathy and that mercy and justice, which are great human moral qualities, take leave of men, and instead, spitefulness and enmity tend to grow; there remain behind only the animal passions, wiping out all high moral qualities. But it would be noticed that such a teaching could not have proceeded from God, Who sends His punishment only after He has completed His argument.

Let this therefore be pondered over: that if there is a man who does not accept the true Faith because he is yet ignorant and unaware of its truth, of its teachings and its beauties, would it be reasonable to kill such a man forthwith? Nay, this man deserves pity; he deserves to be instructed gently and politely in the truth, beauty and the spiritual benefit of that faith; not that his denial should be met by the sword or the gun. So, the doctrine of Jehad proposed by these sects of Islam, as well as the belief that the time is near when there will arise a bloody Mahdi whose name would be Imam Muhammad, that the Messiah will come down from the heavens for his help, and that both together will kill all non-Muslim people if they deny Islam, is utterly opposed to our moral sense. Is not this the belief which puts out of action all good human qualities and morals, and encourages the qualities of life in the jungle? Those who hold such beliefs live a life of hypocrisy in relation to others, so much so that they cannot give true loyalty to state authorities of another Faith; they dishonestly profess to give allegiance to them, which is wrong. That is why some of the Ahl-i-Hadith sects mentioned by me just now are living a double life under the British Government in British India. In secret, they hold out hopes to the common people of the coming of bloody days of a bloody Mahdi and a bloody Messiah, and instruct them accordingly, but when they go to the authorities they flatter them and assure them that they do not approve of such ideas. If, however, they are really opposed to such ideas, why do they not propagate this in writing, and why should they await the coming of that bloody Mahdi and the Messiah standing as it were at the doorsteps, ready to join them in their campaign?

Such beliefs, in short, have very much demoralised these Maulvies: they are incapable of teaching people decency and peace. On the other hand, killing others without rhyme or reason is with them a great religious duty. I would be glad if any sect of the Ahl-i-Hadith is opposed to these beliefs, but I cannot help observing with regret that among the sects of the Ahl-I-Hadith there are those who in secret believe in a bloody Mahdi and in the popular notions of Jehad. They are opposed to correct notions, and they think it an act of great merit to kill when they have the opportunity to kill all the people professing other faiths, whereas the beliefs in killing others in the name of Islam, or believing in prophecies like the prophecy of a Bloody Messiah and wishing to advance the cause of Islam by bloodshed or by threats, are absolutely against the Holy Quran and the reliable Hadith. Our Holy Prophet (peace and the blessings of God be upon him) suffered great persecution at the hands of the Kafirs at Mecca and thereafter. The thirteen years which he spent at Mecca were years of great affliction and suffering of many kinds - a thought of them brings tears to one's eyes. But he did not raise the sword against his enemies, nor did he reply to their abuse, until many of his Companions and dear friends were mercilessly murdered; and until he himself was subjected to sufferings of various kinds, such as being poisoned many a time; and until many an unsuccessful plan to murder him had been laid. When, however, God's vengeance came, it so happened that the elders of Mecca and the chiefs of the tribes unanimously decided that this man should in any case be put to death. At that time, God, who is the Supporter of His loved ones and of the truthful and righteous, informed him that there was now nothing left in that town except evil, that the townspeople were bent upon murdering him and that he should therefore quit it at once. Then it was that, in accordance with the divine command, he migrated to Medina, but even then his enemies did not leave him alone; they pursued him there, and tried to destroy Islam in all possible ways. When their excesses went to an extreme, and when they had rendered themselves deserving of punishment by the murder of many an innocent person, permission to fight with them in self-defence, to fight with a view to warding off their attack, was given. And those people and their helpers had rendered themselves deserving of such treatment because of their having killed many an innocent person whom they had murdered not in any fight or battle but simply out of wanton mischief and whom they had robbed of their property. But, in spite of all this, when Mecca was taken our Holy Prophet (peace and the blessings of God be upon him) pardoned them all. It is, therefore, utterly wrong and unjust to suppose that the Holy Prophet (peace and the blessings of God be upon him) or his Companions ever fought for spreading the Faith, or that they ever coerced anyone to join the fold of Islam.

It is worth noting also that, as at that time all the people were prejudiced against Islam, and as the opposing people were scheming to destroy Islam, which they thought was a new religion and the followers of which were only a small community, and as everyone was anxious to see the Muslims destroyed early or disrupted so as not to leave any chance of their further growth and development, the Muslims at that time were obstructed in the smallest matters, and anyone from any tribe who accepted Islam and became a Muslim was either killed at once by his tribe or lived in perpetual danger. At a time like this, God Almighty, taking pity on Muslim converts, had imposed on the bigoted rulers a penalty, namely, that they should become subservient to Islam, and thus open the door of freedom for Islam. This was meant to remove the obstructions in the way of those who wished to accept the Faith; it was God's compassion for the world, and it harmed no one. It is evident, however, that non-Muslim rulers of to-day do not interfere with Islam; they do not ban the essential Islamic practices. They do not kill new Muslims, they do not put them into prison or torture them; why then should Islam raise its sword against them? It is obvious that Islam has never advocated compulsion: if the Holy Quran, the books of Hadith and historical records are carefully examined and, as far as possible, studied or listened to thoughtfully, it will be realised with certainty that the charge that Islam wielded the sword to propagate the Faith with force is an utterly unfounded and shameful charge against Islam. Such a charge against Islam is made by people who have not read the Quran, the Hadith and the reliable histories of Islam in a spirit of detachment, but have made free use of falsehood and have brought wrong charges against it. I know, however, that the time is near when those who are hungry and thirsty for Truth will be enlightened as to what reality there is in these charges. Can we ever describe that Faith as a faith of compulsion, when the Holy Book, the Quran, clearly directs that there is no compulsion in religion, that it is not permissible to use compulsion in religion, that it is not permissible to use compulsion or force in getting anyone to join Islam? Can we accuse that great Prophet of using force against others, who, day and night for thirteen years, exhorted all his Companions in Mecca not to return evil for the evil of the enemy, but to forbear and forgive? When, however, the mischief of the enemy went to extremes and when everybody started exerting himself for wiping out Islam, the Jealous God thought it fit that the people who had wielded the sword should be annihilated by the sword. Except for this the Holy Quran has not approved of compulsion. If compulsion had been approved of by Islam, the Companions of our Holy Prophet (peace and the blessings of God be upon him), in moments of trial, would not have behaved like people of sincere and genuine faith. Yet, the loyalty and faithfulness of the Companions of our Master, the Holy Prophet (peace be on him), is a matter which I hardly need to mention. It is no secret that among them are examples of loyalty and steadfastness the parallel of which it is difficult to find in the annals of other nations; this band of the faithful did not waver in their loyalty and steadfastness even under the shadow of the sword. On the other hand, in the company of their Great and Holy Prophet, they gave proof of that steadfastness which no man is ever able to give unless his heart and his bosom are lit up with the light of true faith. There is, in short, no compulsion in Islam. Wars in Islam fall under three categories:

1. defensive wars, i.e. war by way of self-protection;
2. punitive wars, i.e. blood for blood;
3. war to secure freedom, i.e. with a view to break the power of those who kill those who accept Islam.
Therefore, when there is no direction in Islam that anyone should be made to join it by compulsion or by the threat to kill, it is absolutely absurd to await the appearance of any bloody Mahdi or a bloody Messiah. It can never be that there should appear in this world, against the Quranic teachings, a man who would use the sword to make people Muslims. This is not at all so very difficult to realise or above one's understanding. Only foolish people have been led to this belief by their selfishness. For most of our Maulvies labour under the misconception that the wars waged by the Mahdi will bring a large amount of wealth to them, so much so, that they will be unable to hold it, and, as most of the Maulvies to-day are very poor, they await day and night the appearance of a Mahdi, who, they think, will provide for their selfish desires. Therefore, these people turn against him who does not believe in the appearance of such a Mahdi; such a one is at once declared a Kafir, and outside the pale of Islam. I too, therefore, am a Kafir in the eyes of these people; and on these very grounds. For I do not believe in the appearance of a bloody Mahdi and a bloody Messiah. Nay, I hate such absurd ideas and regard them with contempt. And I have been declared a Kafir, not only because of my denial of the appearance of this supposed Mahdi and this supposed Messiah in whom they believe, but also because I have publicly announced, having been informed of it by God through revelation, that the real and true Promised Messiah who is also the real Mahdi, tidings of whose appearance are to be found in the Bible and the Quran and whose coming is promised also in the Hadith, is myself; who is, however, not provided with any sword or gun. I have been commanded by God to invite people with humility and gentleness to God, Who is the true God, Eternal and Unchangeable, Who has perfect Holiness, perfect Knowledge, perfect Mercy, and perfect Justice.

I am the light of this dark age; he who follows me will be saved from falling into the pit prepared by the Devil for those who walk in darkness. I have been sent by God to lead the people of the world to the true God through peace and humility, and to reassert the reign of morals in Islam. God has provided me with heavenly signs, for the satisfaction of seekers after truth. He has done wonderful things in my support; He has disclosed to me secrets of the unseen and of the future which, according to the holy books, is the sign of a true claimant to divine office, and He has vouchsafed to me holy and pure Knowledge. Therefore, the souls which hate truth and are pleased with darkness, have turned against me. But I have decided to be sympathetic towards mankind - as far as I can. So, in this age the greatest sympathy for the Christians is that their attention should be called to the true God, Who is free from such defects as being born and having to suffer death and undergo suffering, the God who made the earliest heavenly bodies spherical in shape and, in His law of nature, set down this point of spiritual guidance that, like a sphere, there is in Him Unity and absence of direction. That is why the things which occupy space have not been made triangular, i.e., the things which God created first such as the earth, the heaven, the sun and the moon, and all the stars, and elements - all are spherical, the spherical nature of which points towards Unity. Therefore there can be no greater sympathy with the Christians than that they should be guided towards the God Whose creations declare Him to be free from the idea of trinity.

The greatest sympathy towards Muslims is that they should be reformed morally and that an effort should be made to dispel the false hopes which they entertain in connection with the appearance of a bloody Mahdi and Messiah, which are entirely against the Islamic teachings. I have just now stated that the ideas of some of the Ulema of the day that there will appear a bloody Mahdi who will spread Islam at the point of the sword, are all opposed to the Quranic teachings and are the result of greed and selfishness. For a right-minded and truth-loving Muslim to forsake such beliefs or ideas, it should be enough to study carefully the Quran, and to pause, consider and see that the Holy Word of God is quite against holding out a threat of murder to force anyone into the fold of Islam. This one argument, in short, is sufficient to refute these false ideas. Nevertheless, out of a feeling of sympathy, I have decided to refute the aforesaid ideas by positive and clear proofs from history, etc. Hence, I shall try to prove in this book that Jesus (peace be on him) did not die on the Cross: he did not go up to heaven, nor should it be supposed that he will ever again come down from heaven to earth; that, rather, he died at the age of 120 years at Srinagar, in Kashmir, and that his tomb is to be found in the Khan Yar Street of that town. I have divided this enquiry into ten chapters, and an epilogue, comprising the testimony of the Bible, the testimonies of the Holy Quran and the Hadith, the testimony of medical books, the testimony of historical records, the testimony of oral traditions which have been handed down from generation to generation, miscellaneous circumstantial evidence, the testimony of rational argument and the testimony of fresh revelation from God to me. These make up eight chapters. In chapter 9 there will be a brief comparison between Christianity and Islam, and there will be set out arguments in favour of the truth of Islam. In chapter 10 there will be a somewhat detailed account of aims, to carry out which I have been divinely appointed; there will be proofs of my being the Promised Messiah and of my having come from God. And, at the end, there will be an epilogue in which will be set out certain directions.

I hope readers of this book will read it diligently. I expect them not to throw away out of prejudice the truth contained in it. I should like to remind them that this is not a cursory investigation; nay, the proofs contained in this book have been made available after a deep and searching inquiry. I pray to God that He may help me in this undertaking and lead me through His special revelation and inspiration to the perfect Light of truth - for all true Knowledge and clear Realisation descend from Him, and only with His permission guide human hearts to Truth. Amen! Amen!

Copied from "Jesus in India" by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani, The Promised Massiah (as).

[zaksnoor]

Message of Promised Messiah to His People:

"Therefore, O you people, do not fight with Allah. This indeed is the task which Allah wants done for your sake and for the sake of your faith. Do not oppose Him. You can resist thunder and lightning but you cannot resist Allah. Had this scheme been conceived by man, there was no need of your opposition. Allah alone would have been sufficient for its destruction. Is it not a pity that Heaven bears witness but you do not listen? The earth cries "needed, needed" but you refuse to see. O my unlucky people, rise and behold that at this hour when Islam has been trampled under feet, disgraced like a culprit, dubbed as something false and unclean, do you think Allah's wrath and dignity should not have been roused even now? Skies are on the verge of falling. Days are near when every ear will hear the (divine) cry of Anal-moujood -- Surely I exist - The non-believers have shown us quite a few things. Now Allah wants to show something. Therefore, do not court His wrath deliberately. Have you not seen the end of the century? Fourteen years more have passed since. Did you not see with your own eyes the eclipses of sun and the moon in the same month of Ramadhan? Has not the prophecy about the appearance of the comet Zoo-ul-Saneen been fulfilled? Do you know nothing about the terrible earthquake which recently shook the earth in accordance with the prophecy about the Messiah and devastated a large number of settlements? And was it not foretold that the Messiah's coming was to synchronize with this earthquake? Did you not witness the sign regarding Atham which was shown exactly as was prophesied by our lord and master - the Holy Prophet , peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, and about which warning had been given through Baraheen-i-Ahmadiyya as many as seventeen years earlier? Are you still unaware of the prophecy about Lekh Ram? Did anyone ever see that a contest which was almost like a wrestling match should take place and should be widely publicized through advertisements and the press, and should attract the attention of the hundreds of thousands of people and should be attended by a clear and unmistakable sign like the one which was manifested in relation to Lekh Ram? Are you not overwhelmed with shame that on seeing your anguish and the shocks you suffered in the thirteenth century, Allah visited you with grace and succour as soon as the fourteenth century was ushered in? Was it not necessary that divine promises should be fulfilled on schedule? Come explain what happened to you in the face of all these signs? What has sealed your hearts? O my misguided people, surely Allah can satisfy you provided your hearts are clean. He can attract you provided you are prepared to be attracted. Mark, how critical is the time and how dire are the needs and requirements of Islam! Does not your heart bear witness that the present time is the time of divine mercy, that there is great enthusiasm in the heavens for the guidance of mankind and that the case for monotheism is being heard by the one and only Allah Himself? But the blind of this age are so far unaware. They hold this divine movement in utter disregard. How I wish they open their eyes and see for themselves the variety of signs which are descending from above and how Allah helps and how light continues to spread. Blessed one are those who recognize this light. "

(Kitabul Bariyya p. 325 to 331)

[Degas]

Originally posted by sadeyes_neverlie:
I am the light of this dark age; he who follows me will be saved from falling into the pit prepared by the Devil for those who walk in darkness.

.. ok am not following him! so what that means..
He also said this..


"I am that same prophet , the very Incarnation of the "Seal of Prophets" and twenty years back in the Book Baraheen-i-Ahmadiah, I was called by God by the names of Muhammad and Ahmad and was declared by God Himself to be the very prophet in fresh and blood."
(Eik Ghalati-ka-Izala, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)

"It is a fact that Muhammad(pbuh) worked only three thousand miracles... My Miracles exceed one million in numbers."
(Ijaze-e-Ahmadi, Page 79; Tadhkira tul Shahadatain, Page 41)

"It is possible for a man to attain a spiritual position higher than any other man; if any man wishes, he can rise even above Muhammad(pbuh)."
(Daily Al-Fadl, Jul 17. 1992, Mirza Basheer al-Din Mahmud Qadiani)

"As for him (Muhammad), the moon was eclipsed but for me, two bright moons have eclipsed (solar eclipse). How dare you deny it? If his Kalam (words) were a miracle, a sign, my Kalam is also a miracle."
(Ijaze-e-Ahmadi, Page 79)


we dont his symapathies as were written in this article..he should pray for his own survival and repent..

[Bismah]

Degas, May I ask you if you have these books and refrences in front of you now, where you quoted all the above from? Or is it from an anti-ahmadiyya site?

[Degas]

Originally posted by Bismah:
Degas, May I ask you if you have these books and refrences in front of you now, where you quoted all the above from? Or is it from an anti-ahmadiyya site?

just look at the claims in the above articles.. I asked about these quotes from ahmadjee in a previous post but he didnt replied.. I never go to hate sites..if Ahmadis can refute these sayings.. I would believe them..

[Degas]

I have read a learned qadiani Moulana Zafar Ali Kahn's book "Qadianat" where Mirza had openely claimed to be greater than Hazrat Aesa! Just look at Christ and Maryam in Quran and their status! We even have a surat Mayam in Quran..

[Bismah]

Originally posted by Degas:
just look at the claims in the above articles.. I asked about these quotes from ahmadjee in a previous post but he didnt replied.. I never go to hate sites..if Ahmadis can refute these sayings.. I would believe them..

I didn't say you visit any hate sites, but you still didn't answer my question that if you have the books in front of you where you are quoting from.