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    PAKISTAN WAS EST.......

    PAKISTAN WAS ESTABLISHED ON THE PRINCIPAL OF LA ILAHA ILALLAH, MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH. DO YOU THINK THIS HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED.PLEASE GIVE EVIDENCE FOR YOUR CLAIM.

    SALAAM

    #2
    No, it has not been established.

    Evidence: go and live in Pakistan and you will see for yourself.

    Comment


      #3
      "La Illaha Illal Lah, Muhammad ur Rasool ullah" is not a "principal" to create a country ... it is the pehla kalma we teach to our children and the core of our faith.

      If you wish to discuss the core principles which were espoused by the founders of Pakistan, and whether the nation deviated from those core principles (justice, liberty to practice religion, democracy etc) or not, a better place is "Pakistan Affairs" forum.

      On the other hand, if you wish to discuss the essential elements of an Islamic state, please go right ahead.

      If you want to present a case, that Pakistanis, generally and as a nation, are bad muslims, feel free to share your views. Don't forget to present credible evidence too.
      "Let your friends underestimate your virtues. Let your enemies overestimate your faults." - Godfather.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Khilafah1422:
        PAKISTAN WAS ESTABLISHED ON THE PRINCIPAL OF LA ILAHA ILALLAH, MUHAMMADUR RASULULLAH. DO YOU THINK THIS HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED.PLEASE GIVE EVIDENCE FOR YOUR CLAIM.

        SALAAM
        .. the thing lacking most among is tolerance.. we all the time are trying to prove that we r better muslims than others and in process start hate.. first we need to establish a a system that guarantees social justice since that is the essence of Islamic system.. applying directly religious system without justice can have very dangerous effects..
        ..plus dont use CAPS its not polite..
        Saints are fine for Heaven, but they are hell on earth.

        Comment


          #5
          I dont understand how do we find time to criticize others when there is so little time left to do good deeds for the sake of our own salvation. However, pointing out and stopping "unislamic" activities and attitudes is not spreading hatred provided it is being done sensibly.

          Originally posted by Degas:
          .. the thing lacking most among is tolerance.. we all the time are trying to prove that we r better muslims than others and in process start hate.. first we need to establish a a system that guarantees social justice since that is the essence of Islamic system.. applying directly religious system without justice can have very dangerous effects..
          ..plus dont use CAPS its not polite..

          Comment


            #6
            Creation Of Pakistan
            Pakistan was created in order to establish an economically, socially and culturally independent homeland for the large muslim minority in India. At the time of Pakistan's creation it was the one country in the world with the largest population of muslims.

            "Pakistan ka mathlab kyaa? La Ilahaa IllAllah!"

            The Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/constitution/

            Enforcement of Shar'iah Act (Act X of 1991)
            http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/le...ctXof1991.html

            Today Pakistan is known as "The Islamic Republic of Pakistan", which leaves no doubt that this country represents "Islam".

            This has to be discussed here, on this forum
            because "Islam" is involved and is being mis-represented.

            Comment


              #7
              Please....
              Having the largest number of Muslims doesn't make it Islamic. Turkey has a lot of Muslims so according to you that makes it Islamic when women get arrested for wearing hijab and men get thrown from the army if they get caught praying.
              You speak about shariah act. Can you honestly tell me that Pakistan is and ever has been ruled by Islam.
              Do we implement the system of La Illaha illAllah that Allah has sent down to us or do we work to becoming a country ruled in the same methond as the Americans.
              Do we use a system made by man? or do we use a system by who made man?
              Please prove to me that Pakistan is Islamic.
              For a place to be Islam it has to ruled by Islam and please show me some evidence that it is ruled by Islam because i don't think any pakistani truly thinks Islam is the rule in pakistan.
              In reply to you opening comment Pakistan was a reation simply to divide lands up by the British using a concept called divide and conquer because they feared an Islamic uprising. Unfortunately the pakistanis all agreed because they thought they were going to be ruled by Islam but we have never been ruled by Islam.
              Yes Pakistan is known as the Islamic republic, thats right known. Doesn't mean it is.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Faisal:
                "La Illaha Illal Lah, Muhammad ur Rasool ullah" is not a "principal" to create a country ... it is the pehla kalma we teach to our children and the core of our faith.
                Is not a principle and its the core of our faith, I see a condradiction here.

                بِن دانا پانی میں جی لواں
                بِن انَک میں جی نہ سکاں

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by s_H_e_I_k_H:
                  Please....
                  Having the largest number of Muslims doesn't make it Islamic. Turkey has a lot of Muslims so according to you that makes it Islamic when women get arrested for wearing hijab and men get thrown from the army if they get caught praying.
                  You speak about shariah act. Can you honestly tell me that Pakistan is and ever has been ruled by Islam.
                  Do we implement the system of La Illaha illAllah that Allah has sent down to us or do we work to becoming a country ruled in the same methond as the Americans.
                  Do we use a system made by man? or do we use a system by who made man?
                  Please prove to me that Pakistan is Islamic.
                  For a place to be Islam it has to ruled by Islam and please show me some evidence that it is ruled by Islam because i don't think any pakistani truly thinks Islam is the rule in pakistan.
                  In reply to you opening comment Pakistan was a reation simply to divide lands up by the British using a concept called divide and conquer because they feared an Islamic uprising. Unfortunately the pakistanis all agreed because they thought they were going to be ruled by Islam but we have never been ruled by Islam.
                  Yes Pakistan is known as the Islamic republic, thats right known. Doesn't mean it is.
                  Brother, you missed this.....
                  "This has to be discussed here, on this forum because "Islam" is involved and is being mis-represented."

                  The reason I referred to the Sharia Act is because people on this forum claim that Pakistan and Islam are separate, and that Pakistan related matters should be discussed in the Pakistan Affairs forum and not in the Religion forum.

                  When Pakistan is known as "The Islamic Republic of Pakistan", it simply means that Pakistan is representing Islam, which is not TRUE!

                  It is about time that we should accept that Pakistan today IS NOT and "Islamic Republic".

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Just read extracts below from Constitution of Pakistan, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and it'll be easy to judge how Islamic our country is.

                    ++++++++++++++++

                    Chapter 1, Article 45.
                    The President shall have power to grant pardon, reprieve and respite, and to remit, suspend or commute any sentence passed by any court, tribunal or other authority

                    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                    Chapter 4, Article 248.
                    (1) The President, a Governor, the Prime Minister, a Federal Minister, a Minister of State, the Chief Minister and a Provincial Minister shall not he answerable to any court for the exercise of powers and performance of functions of their respective offices or for any act done or purported to be done in the exercise of those powers and performance of those functions:
                    Provided that nothing in this clause shall be construed as restricting the right of any person to bring appropriate proceedings against the Federation or a Province.


                    (2) No criminal proceedings whatsoever shall be instituted or continued against the President or a Governor in any court during his term of office.

                    (3) No process for the arrest or imprisonment of the President or a Governor shall issue from any court during his term of office.

                    (4) No civil proceedings in which relief is claimed against the President or a Governor shall be instituted during his term of office in respect of anything done by or not done by him in his personal capacity whether before or after he enters upon his office unless, at least sixty days before the proceedings are instituted, notice in writing has been delivered to him, or sent to him in the manner prescribed by law, stating the nature of the proceedings, the cause of action, the name, description and place of residence of the party by whom the proceedings are to be instituted and the relief which the party claims.

                    ------------------
                    May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

                    Comment


                      #11
                      My Uncle just arrived from Pak, and has been telling me all about how "pious" the Pakistanis are... I myself had many a chance to witness the piety of our great nation. My conclusion... Everyone from the bottom of society to the top are as corrupt and unIslamic as they come.
                      The question begging to be asked, who are we trying to fool?????

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Different:
                        Creation Of Pakistan
                        Pakistan was created in order to establish an economically, socially and culturally independent homeland for the large muslim minority in India. At the time of Pakistan's creation it was the one country in the world with the largest population of muslims.

                        "Pakistan ka mathlab kyaa? La Ilahaa IllAllah!"

                        The Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/constitution/

                        Enforcement of Shar'iah Act (Act X of 1991)
                        http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/le...ctXof1991.html

                        Today Pakistan is known as "The Islamic Republic of Pakistan", which leaves no doubt that this country represents "Islam".

                        This has to be discussed here, on this forum
                        because "Islam" is involved and is being mis-represented.

                        Can you have islam fully being represented whilst the government structure is a republic?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          pls reply

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Can u explain what u really mean by Islamic state? Islam doesnt force any particular syatem of goverernance but gives guidelines for how form an effective system . The prime reason for that is Islam is a universal religion and it had to spread all over the world. If it was confined to a particular structure it would not had been effective for peopels living in different geographic regions of the world. n Saudia arabia people lived in tribes but in other parts people lived in different structures. Even in Sahaba karam's times the political sructure was always changing and evolving keeping in view the dramatic rise of Islamic civilization. Therefore Govt in the times of Hazrat Abu Bakr was entirely different from Hazrat Umer's or Hazrat Ali's. We make a very stupid assumption when we say shariat should be implemented when we try to actually try to recreate those old times.. only laws of an Islamic country should be according to Quran and Sunnah and not contradict them. An example was taliban's shariat when the courts they established had a look of 1400 years old settings..they even carried old rusted swords! Islam is a major force in the world today and there are several Islamic countries and have their own political structures and some have laws which are closer to Islam than others.
                            In Pakistan there is a wide vacuum of social justice. Implementing directly shariat without justice would result in massive hardship on poor people. One example is the implementation of blasphemy law without taking precautions that it can be used to take unfortunate turn . Most of the people who were blamed were never given chance to prove their innocence and once blamed could never take out that stigma from there lives even they were innocents. Zia cut off poor peoples hands but never touched rich people. Onecan see that only 11 hands were cut in first 400 years of Islamic history since hadd conditions were very difficult to fulfill.. Hazrat Umer didnt used hadd for years as there was a famine and people under hunger cant be prosecuted under hadd!
                            Saints are fine for Heaven, but they are hell on earth.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Degas, what a beautiful explanation!!!

                              You're 100% right. People have this misconception that sharia is a set of laws that can be implemented anywhere at any time, without any changes, and it'll turn a society into a heaven-bound one.

                              Many of the Laws in Pakistan are perfectly Islamic. Some are not. The problem isn't really in the rules though, its in the implementation - the justice factor as Degas says.

                              If you're going to have these laws, then you need to have the right courts to go along with it, and CURRENT TECHNOLOGY must be implemented to improve the justice.

                              for example, (i love this example, because no one can come up with an answer on this) - you need 4 witnesses to prove an adultery case or a repeated confession from the adulterer, in order to carry out the punishment.

                              1. there is debate whether stoning is even islamic or not - which means that the muslim ummah as a whole needs to establish BEYOND DOUBT what the punishment needs to be.

                              2. If there is another way to prove that adultery has or has not taken place - BEYOND DOUBT - why can't these ways be used? ex. a. forensics
                              b. medical examinations by doctors for bruising to prove there was a rape, not adultery.
                              c. video tape, audio tape recording of act taking place.

                              I dont think using this modern technology as evidence would be unIslamic at all. But are the muslim clerics listening?

                              3. examination of jurisdictions held in times of the golden age of Islam - to see if we can learn from the actions in the past and ADAPT this knowledge to the present times.

                              I dont see any of this being done in ANY muslims populated country. I dont see why people like you guys put so much heat on Pakistan for not being a true Islamic state, when there is NO country that has managed to do it since centuries and centuries ago.

                              I think what is more important for us is that we each attend to our own selves and make sure we keep on the right path and do the right things. I dont think true believers have anything to fear - they dont even fear the injustice they may be dealt by some idiots who think they know Islam (like Gen. Zia).

                              I personally like to mind my own business and try to improve myself as a muslim and as a good person. Justice needs to be established in every nation, and I dont think ANY present nation has gotten to that point.

                              Pakistan is not alone in its problems.


                              I believe in dragons, good men, and other fantasy creatures.

                              Comment

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