Moving index finger while supplicating.

[Mahiwal]

Asalam ualikum W'r W'b;

I have seen some people moving their finger while supplicating(during tashud); most of these have been friends of eyptian and arabic origin. I've also seen people raising their finger once and letting it drop, and most of these have been friends of pakistani origin.

So which of these is correct? Can anyone post up some references which would show the two sides of the story? The only ahadiths that I have been able to come across refers to raising the finger once and then letting it drop. I believe there is a difference of opinion regarding this amongst the Imaams, so I would prefer if someone not post what the Imaams' decision was, but rather post the sources on which the Imaam based his decision.

How do you people supplicate during tashud? Have you done any research regarding this?

Jazakallahu wa'ahsan'ul Jaza,
Walaykum salam.

[This message has been edited by Mahiwal (edited June 16, 2002).]

[Muni]

You know I've had the same question.

sorry, I don't have any hadiths or proofs to post but I heard an interesting story from Sr. Khadeejah, an American muslimah who converted I guess 15 years ago. She's married to another American convert/revert who does a lot of dawah.

It seemed far fetched to me but maybe some of u have heard something to the same effect. Khadeejah said that you should actually form a cicle with your right thumb and remaining three fingers while the index finger is in constant up & down motion. She said that while we pray there are devils all aound us and each time we lift our index finger we kill one shaytan around us. Told u, it seemed outrageous.

Anywayz, I'm indian and my parents taught me to lift my index finger once while saying the shahadah. And I also read in a book about the same method, this book said that it is the most common way of performing salah. Does this have to do with the 4 differnt schools? I just want to know how the Prophet salalahi alayhi wasallam did.

My parents say that our family is Hanafi, I have no clue what that means! B/c it seems that whatever they have taught me is the method that most books cover. I just want to pray and follow the ways that Rasool Salalahi alayhi wasalam taught. I don't understand how Islaam could have been influenced by these 4 people so much. What is the original way?!

[Maniac]

Assalam o alaikum

this question was the topic of discussion a few days back. Here's the thread..
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/005281.html

I believe it contains the answers you seek.

Abdullah

[Mahiwal]

Muni;

I'll get back to you regarding this later, maybe you'd prefer a separate thread for it so that others can answer regarding that specific issue.

Its true, I believe that religion has been made very complex over the centuries. Thing is different Imaams(the learned people of their time) did things differently and referred to different ahadith, and some people decided to follow one, while others followed the other.

You should probably have a sitting with a local Muslimah who can guide you correctly in this regard.

[Mahiwal]

Abdullah; no it doesn't, hence the need for this thread. What're your comments in this regard?

[appkiamaanat]

Originally posted by Muni:

My parents say that our family is Hanafi, I have no clue what that means! B/c it seems that whatever they have taught me is the method that most books cover. I just want to pray and follow the ways that Rasool Salalahi alayhi wasalam taught. I don't understand how Islaam could have been influenced by these 4 people so much. What is the original way?!

Sister all four imaams were Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa' so there is no difference in their aqeedah.

Allahu Alim



------------------
'Rabbee zidnee`ilmaa'
My Lord! Increase me in knowledge.[20:114]

The Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said:
"Whoever sets out on a path to seek knowledge, Allaah will make easy his path to Paradise."
[Saheeh Muslim]

[appkiamaanat]

Originally posted by Mahiwal:

The only ahadiths that I have been able to come across refers to raising the finger once and then letting it drop.

Sister can you please post this hadiths for us, insh'Allah.

Jazak'Allahu Khaiy'run



------------------
'Rabbee zidnee`ilmaa'
My Lord! Increase me in knowledge.[20:114]

The Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said:
"Whoever sets out on a path to seek knowledge, Allaah will make easy his path to Paradise."
[Saheeh Muslim]

[Girl from Quraysh]

I'm going to post up some links for you guys from Mufti Desai's website (i.e. www.askimam.com ). I think they'll clarify this for you and clear up any confusion.
http://islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=4084
http://islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=3123
http://islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=2564

[Pakiice]

Asalamu alykum,

I posted on the previous thread as well. I remember 2 years ago being clueless about madhabs and all. I was always taught there was one way to pray and my way was "right".. Alhamdullilah, after going to college I hanging out w/ people of very differnt ethnic Muslim backgrounds, I realized the beauty of Islam. Salah is not all about praying w/ your hands folded or down, or moving your index finder up and down, it is your meeting w/ Allah(swt). Now there are certain requirements for Salah that should be followed, but I would suggest if you are really truly confused about Salah and differences of opinion than you need to re-evaluate everything in your life. Sit down and reflect upon the things you know about your deen and the things you don't. When it comes to matters of Fard Ay'n ( or obligatory acts that every Muslim/a should perform in their lives) we have to know them inside out and start w/ for example Salah and as the bro/ sis in the above post said ask a knowledgeable sister in your community about it. Don't get stuck w/ one opinion ask around and read more books. Read what Allah(swt) has written in the Qur'an and also the teaching of Prohet (SAWS) and read books by famous Scholars on matter of Salah. Start slowly.I was born in hanafi madhab but trust me no one in my family ever used this term.. So I know exactly how you feel!!!!!
O.K and by reading more you will realize the beauty of differences of opinion.
I have a story to share and inshaAllah when i see my teacher next time i'll get the source for you. She was telling us about differences of opinion and how on different occasions prohpet(SAWS) did things differntly. So either it was the Battle of Khandaq( the ditch) or Uhud... The shahba's had to travel to another city/area.. He(SAWS) told them that pray Salat-ul-Asr once they reached their destination point. So during their journey the time of Asr came and some sahaba's said , ok lets pray now since the prayer time as arrived. However, some shahba's( companions of Rasool Allah) said no He(SAW) said once you get their than pray. In essence the Shahab's were divided into 2 groups. When they came back they asked prohpet Muhammad ( May peace and blessing be on him) that who is right. He smiled and said both of you are right. So the people who prayed during their journey got the hidden meaning of the fact that prophet (SAW) was encouraging them to reach on time and others took the literal meaning. So alhamdullilah, this teaches us a lot of the teaching of our Prophet. I hope i didn't confuse you more
JazakumAllahu Khair
And May Allah(swt) make the matter of Salah clear to you.

[Mahiwal]

Asalam ualikum W'r W'b;

aapkiamaanat; I'll look up that hadith for you Insha'llah. Give me a day.

Girl from Quraish; The website only contains a fatwa, and no authentic background for the decision reached.

Pakiice; That was a really nice story. I've also found the same thing, that the Prophet(PBUH) had prayed differently on different occasions, and while one Imaam reconciled in one way, the other Imaam found the other way more authentic. But I believe it is broadly accepted that either way is just fine, right?

[Pakiice]

Walikum Asalam,
Yes eXactly

[Mahiwal]

Originally posted by appkiamaanat:

Sister can you please post this hadiths for us, insh'Allah.

Jazak'Allahu Khaiy'run

Asalaam ualikum W'r W'b;
Sorry for the delay, here's the promised Ahadiths:

Sunan of Imaam Abu Dawood(1/984 Pg. 252), Abdullah Ibn-al-Zubair said: "The Prophet (Peace be upon him) used to point with his finger (at the end of Tashahhud) and he would not move it."

Imam Muslim (Rahimahullah) also reported Ibn al-Zubair (Allah be pleased with him) narrating from his father: "That when the Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) sat for supplication, i.e. Tashahhud, he placed his right hand on his right thigh and his left hand on his left thigh, and pointed with his forefinger, and placed his thumb on his (middle) finger, and covered his knee with the palm of his left hand." (Sahih Muslim, 1/1202, English ed'n)

According to the Hanafi, Hanbali and Shafi'i Madhhabs, one should not continuously make supplications with the fore-finger. It is written in the English translation of Fiqh-us-Sunnah, by As-Sayyid Sabiq, (vol. 1, pg. 157): "Wa'il ibn Hajr (Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) would place his left palm on his left thigh and knee. He would place the end of his right elbow upon his right thigh and would then close his right hand, forming a circle. In another narration it states, he would make a circle with his middle finger and thumb and point with his index finger, and (Wa'il) saw him moving it to make supplications (related by Ahmad)." Explaining the Hadith, al-Bayhaqi (Rahimahullah) says, "The implication of 'he would move it' is that he would point with it, not that he would continue to move it." This would be in agreement with the narration of Ibn az-Zubair (Allah be pleased with him), who reported, "The Prophet (Peace be upon him) would point with his finger while supplicating, and he would not move it." This is related by Abu Dawud with a Sahih chain. An-Nawawi also mentioned it.

I'll Insha'llah update this thread again as I find out more, others are also encouraged to share their point of view.

[filhaal]

salaam,

because of these kinds of pointless things religion has become a very complex thing.

different groups have there different motion and actions for prayer and they all claim to be following the SUNNAH of the prophet (saw)!!!

this kind of paranoia about motions defies the whole meaning of prayer!!

[Mahiwal]

Asalaam ualikum filhaal;
Does your comment relate to the question asked? No. Please dont poke your nose where it isn't welcome. Thank you.

[marhami]

hey mahiwal I have wondered the same thing and have noticed the same thing arabs normally move the finger and we usually drop it.