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    Honour crimes in the Muslim world


    The lawyer in this article claims that the law in Pakistan allows a man to kill his daughter or grand daughter without fear of any penalty. Is this correct? Am I missing something?

    ******************************************** http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...5-7-2002_pg3_3

    Honour crimes in the Muslim world

    Huma Bukhari

    Such laws can often be used to hide a crime, especially in the cases of incest where a girl becomes pregnant. The power legally vested in the male members of the family makes it easy for them to get rid of their crime by killing the impregnated woman

    Honour in the Muslim world, somehow, is related to women. A slight suspicion about the character of any female relative can lead to her murder. At another level, revenge against a man can lead to dishonouring his women. Both are common phenomena in Pakistan. The recent case of Mukhatarn Bibi in Meerwala Jatoi shows that even collective decision-making, a panchayat in this case, is not free of this malaise. While we are familiar with these dastardly acts against women in Pakistan, sadly, the situation is not very different in other parts of the Muslim world. Also, as in Pakistan, the law in other Muslim states, too, favours the person (male) who commits any offence to “protect his honour”.

    A famous case relates to the 1977 execution of Princess Misha’il bint Fahd bin Mohammad of Saudi Arabia. The princess was married to a much older relative against her will. She fell in love with someone of her age, but was caught along with the man she loved while both were trying to escape Saudi Arabia. The princess’s “adultery” had shamed the family and the grandfather, Prince Mohammad ibn Abdul Aziz, demanded her execution to uphold tribal honor. The princess was shot dead and her lover beheaded. The Saudi government tried to keep the execution secret but a foreign visitor caught it on tape. Later, a British television channel based the film, “Death of a Princess” on the incident.

    The worst offender in the Arab world with respect to honour killings is Jordan, though Jordanians say the higher statistics are the price for their willingness to recognise the problem and allow such incidents to be recorded and reported. But the Jordanian law, in fact, helps perpetuate this menace. According to article 340 of Jordan’s penal code, judges should consider reduced sentences for any man who kills a female relative who has injured her family’s honor by engaging in premarital or extramarital sex — even if it is against her will. The liberal politicians in Jordan brought a bill to annul this article but the conservatives rejected it on the ground that, “it was a danger to family values and would encourage promiscuity”.

    It is a recorded fact that such laws can often be used to hide a crime, especially in the cases of incest where a girl becomes pregnant. The unlimited and unbridled power legally vested in the male members of the family makes it easy for them to get rid of their crime and guilt by killing the impregnated woman.

    Syria, another Arab Muslim country, is no exception. The government claims that Syrian legislation does not discriminate between the sexes and according to a government report “women, in the capacity as members of society, enjoy the same constitutional, legal and political rights as men”. But the personal status law of the Muslims and the penal code reveal clear gender discrimination.

    Article 548.1 states that he “who surprises his spouse or one of his ascendants or descendants or his sister committing adultery or illegitimate sexual acts with another person and he unintentionally kills or injures one or both of them benefits from an exemption of penalty.” Article 548.2 states that the “perpetrator of homicide or injury shall benefit from a reduction in penalty if he surprises his spouse or one of his ascendants, descendants or sister in a suspicious state with another.
    In Iran, under Khomeni’s rule, men were permitted to kill their wives if they were unfaithful to them. It led to cases of women being killed on mere suspicion.

    Pakistan Penal Code also contains gender discriminatory laws. Honour killing was legally permitted/accepted for decades on the pretext of “grave and sudden provocation”. Exception 1 of section 300 of the Pakistan Penal Code (which now stands repealed) laid down that culpable homicide was not murder “if the offender whilst deprived of the power of self control by grave and sudden provocation, causes the death of the person who gave the provocation”. This exception was used when a man had even the slightest suspicion against a female relative. Not only this, the exception was also used as a cover when someone wanted to settle a score against his rival. The modus ope***** in such cases was simple. Kill the rival; kill a family member, and then put their dead bodies together as evidence of their illicit relations.

    After a series of protests this law was changed, but only to make it worse. This time it was done in the name of Islam. General Zia-ul Haq enforced his brand of Shariah Laws piecemeal. The first part was the enforcement of the controversial Hudood Laws and then it was the Qisas (retaliation) and Diyat (blood money) laws. The law, as it stands now, provides that Qatl-i-Amd (culpable homicide amounting to murder) will not be liable to qisas when, “an offender causes the death of his child or grand child how lowsoever” and also “when any wali (the heir of the victim according to his personal law) of the victim is a direct descendant, how lowsoever, of the offender”.

    In plain words, a father or a grandfather can kill his daughter/grand daughter without the fear of losing his life in retaliation. Ditto in the case of a person who kills his wife where the right of retaliation passes to the children of the deceased woman and the murderer. This is a grave lacuna in the law and has made it very easy for the killer to commit the crime against his womenfolk and get away with it.


    Such crimes are committed in almost all Muslim countries but their frequency is difficult to assess since separate statistics for honour killings are not kept. Clearly, these unjust and discriminatory laws need to be changed even before other measures are taken in the socioeconomic and political spheres to effect the larger, societal change.

    The writer is a lawyer



    #2
    from oldlahori:
    The lawyer in this article claims that the law in Pakistan allows a man to kill his daughter or grand daughter without fear of any penalty. Is this correct? Am I missing something?
    The FACT is most muslims do not wish to FACE the truth!

    Under ther sharia of QISAS - this would be allowed:

    [5:45]
    We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and WOUNDS equal for equal."

    But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.

    The punishment mentioned in the above verse was determined by Allah. An eye for an eye. Similarly with other parts of the body. Even wounds and injuries are to be matched.

    The Honour killings or karo kari also fall under QISAS where the rights of the affected person is emphasised; whereas in Hadd the rights of Allah are stressed.

    [2:178-179]
    O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. And for him who is forgiven somewhat by his (injured) brother, prosecution according to usage and payment unto him in kindness. This is an alleviation and a mercy from your Lord. He who transgresseth after this will have a painful doom.

    And there is life for you in retaliation, O men of understanding, that ye may ward off (evil).

    The qisas offence explained in the above verse is very clear, where the death punishment is imposed on the murderer. So, the family of the victim can rightfully kill the perpetrator or accept diyat (blood money).


    Comment


      #3
      errrr even for Qisas the person has to go through the legal system. Its the judge who will figure out if the person is guilty or not. Once the person is found guilty, lets say of murder, the victims family can either accept bloodmoney as compensation or demand an execution.

      Now if we are talking about the society at large and honor killings etc, are they religious in nature. I seriously doubt that. the author uses the panchayat and the girl scenario. I am not a fan of the tribal panchayat law at all.

      Hafeez jumps the gun and equates tribal panchayat type laws or actions to actions ordained by religion, which they are not.

      The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Fraudz:
        errrr even for Qisas the person has to go through the legal system. Its the judge who will figure out if the person is guilty or not. Once the person is found guilty, lets say of murder, the victims family can either accept bloodmoney as compensation or demand an execution.

        Now if we are talking about the society at large and honor killings etc, are they religious in nature. I seriously doubt that. the author uses the panchayat and the girl scenario. I am not a fan of the tribal panchayat law at all.

        Hafeez jumps the gun and equates tribal panchayat type laws or actions to actions ordained by religion, which they are not.

        Mr pir sahib,
        You have called me a liar and openly misleading people in a thread that I started under the Religion Forum!

        Excuse me for asking this:
        What legal court are you referring to?

        The Panchayat is the legal court made up of local mullahs & other scholars!

        The judge is the mullah qualified to issue fatwas and in both cases of 1) Gang Rape and 2)Stoning for blasphemey found the perpetrator guilty!

        The courts of sharia decides cases as per IJMA or {b]"opinions of the shura"[/b] based on quran & hadiths/sunnah!

        You also quote:
        "Once the person is found guilty, lets say of murder, the victims family can either accept bloodmoney as compensation or demand an execution."
        You forget the victim's family can also DEMAND- "EYE FOR AN EYE" or demand equal punishment which can mean the KILLING of the perpetrator or, if there is injury then to INFLICT the similar injury:

        [5:45]
        We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and WOUNDS equal for equal."

        How have I jumped the gun!

        Every year hundreds of women are killed in karo kari which is nothing more than QisAS where the INJURED party takes REVENGE as per verse 5:45. Has the shariat court punished any husbands so far?

        Comment


          #5
          Mr pir sahib,
          You have called me a liar and openly misleading people in a thread that I started under the Religion Forum!


          no I have only said that your statements are incorrect and that you are stating them as fact, which is misleading. If that makes you a liar than so be it. I would think that makes you someone who does not know what he is talking about, or someone deliberately trying to BS.

          Excuse me for asking this:
          What legal court are you referring to?


          civil, anti terror, military or sharia court.

          The Panchayat is the legal court made up of local mullahs & other scholars!

          "local mullahs and other scholars" huh, when did this happen, a panchayat may or may not have any mullah, it consists of the village's elders. In most cases the people who are strong financially, i.e. the big waderia types call the shots.

          judge is the mullah qualified to issue fatwas and in both cases of 1) Gang Rape and 2)Stoning for blasphemey found the perpetrator guilty!

          incorrect yet again. the judge is the leader of the panchayat who could be a mullah, could be a farmer, could be a landlord.

          The courts of sharia decides cases as per IJMA or {b]"opinions of the shura" based on quran & hadiths/sunnah! [/B]

          since when did a panchayat become a court of the shariat?


          quote:
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          You also quote:
          "Once the person is found guilty, lets say of murder, the victims family can either accept bloodmoney as compensation or demand an execution."
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          You forget the victim's family can also DEMAND- "EYE FOR AN EYE" or demand equal punishment which can mean the KILLING of the perpetrator or, if there is injury then to INFLICT the similar injury:



          what do you think i meant when i said they can ask for an execution? that they could demand the execution of some project? as far as inflicting the "similar" injury as you keep yip yapping. There are punishments that are allowed and some that you are hallucinating about. For murder, someone can be executed. I dont know how you extrapolate that what that panchayat ordered was thus allowed by religion.

          [5:45]
          We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and WOUNDS equal for equal."

          How have I jumped the gun!

          Thou hast jumped the gun by stammering incoherent incorrect assumptions without any supporting proof. Just your own flights of imagination stretching the logical limits of extrapolation.

          Every year hundreds of women are killed in karo kari which is nothing more than QisAS where the INJURED party takes REVENGE as per verse 5:45. Has the shariat court punished any husbands so far?

          Its revenge not justice. its not qisas. the fact that you can not see that is rather amusing. an innocent person can not be punished no matter what. If i murder your brother, you have a right to demand my execution, but you cant go murder my brother and consider it as justice ordained by religion. Its revenge, pure and simple. revenge is not qisas.

          I am not sure if cases have been brought before shariat court...why dont you show me that cases were brought in front of teh shariat court and were all let go and the court maintained that what the people did was correct in view of religion.



          [This message has been edited by Fraudz (edited July 15, 2002).]
          The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

          Comment


            #6
            pardon my ignorance, but what is QISAS? I would like to be able to follow the discussion atleast. The article states it as retaliation.

            [This message has been edited by OldLahori (edited July 15, 2002).]

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by OldLahori:
              pardon my ignorance, but what is QISAS? I would like to be able to follow the discussion atleast. The article states it as retaliation.

              [This message has been edited by OldLahori (edited July 15, 2002).]
              QisAS is:

              [5:45]
              We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and WOUNDS equal for equal."

              [2:178-179]
              O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. And for him who is forgiven somewhat by his (injured) brother, prosecution according to usage and payment unto him in kindness. This is an alleviation and a mercy from your Lord. He who transgresseth after this will have a painful doom.

              To pir sahib,

              You did cal me a liar and misleading. So, let's not pussyfoot about it! How would you rate your own "netiquette"? I believe you were lecturing on this topic a while back!

              The crimes against women happen not only in Pakistan but all across the muslim world because of the LOW status the women enjoy under the sharia. I am sure you also think that the women unde Islam have LOFTY ststus!

              "Its revenge not justice. its not qisas. the fact that you can not see that is rather amusing. an innocent person can not be punished no matter what. If i murder your brother, you have a right to demand my execution, but you cant go murder my brother and consider it as justice ordained by religion. Its revenge, pure and simple. revenge is not qisas.

              I am not sure if cases have been brought before shariat court...why dont you show me that cases were brought in front of teh shariat court and were all let go and the court maintained that what the people did was correct in view of religion."
              PIR SAHIB,
              # I
              ====
              What you have DESCRIBED is true only for capital crimes or MURDER! Correct, if I murder your brother, your family has RECOURSE to equally MURDER me or accept DIYAT or blood money.

              NOW, what if I injure you or your brother or your sister?
              Pls Read verse 5:45
              or:
              We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and WOUNDS equal for equal."

              QisAS is not only for MURDER, it also covers:
              life for life and WOUNDS equal for equal.

              The Panchayat Gang rape was a case of Dishonour or 'WOUNDING of one's Honour' from a lower caste member and the penalty DECREED was a case of EQUAL. Stated differently:
              "Your brother 'dishonoured' my sister; so, we will dishonour your sister."

              This falls under the definition of QisAS as per 5:45 albeit it is of the extreme variety.

              WHAT surprises me is that you are asking me for proofs where cases have gone to the sharia court and the guilty set free!

              HERE Is the proof:
              =================
              How many women are incarcerated in the jails for women becuse they have brought charges against adulterybut couldn't provide the REQUIRED FOUR male, adult & muslim witnesses to the crime and were themselves charged for zina and the man found - not guilty and freed! Under the sharia laws - all those hundred of women in jail would be subject to be STONED!

              TELL ME:
              Is this as a RESULT of the sharia laws or a figment of my imagination?

              What would happen if the women were let go?

              The would be KILLED/MURDERED by their own for having brought shame to the family name otr honour?

              Those who would MURDER and there are LITERALLY hundreds who, indeed, have MURDERED their wife, daughter or sister for DISHONOUR.

              TELL me - WHY were they never prosecuted?

              #2
              ===
              "since when did a panchayat become a court of the shariat?"
              I had, for a reason, asked you "What legal court were you referring to"?

              Because under the sharia - the shura or panchayat CONSTITUTES the legal court!

              You chose to IGNORE in your defense that judgements can be made by any scholar capable of issuing a fatwa.

              That is what happened under the case of Stoning to Death for blasphemy where the pesh imam instituted a shura and thru IJMA passed the judgement of STONING for blasphemy! The panchayat that he called was the Court of sharia law!

              The only ERROR this pesh Imam made was that he had a senile man stoned and this is against the sharia.

              Same thing about the tribal panchayat who, maybe, are influenced by the powerful & strong but then who is not in the primitive islamic society?

              #3:
              ==
              "Thou hast jumped the gun by stammering incoherent incorrect assumptions without any supporting proof. Just your own flights of imagination stretching the logical limits of extrapolation."
              Interesting comments and then you proceeded to post the very fact about hundreds of Honour Killings who never get prosecuted. You chose to call it revenge killing and not QisAs when it is one and the same institiutionalized in the sharia!

              QisAs is Revenge killing. Even if you see it as revenge, the perpetrators cannot ESCAPE justice unless they were in compliance of the sharia where the QisAs says:
              "eye for an eye and WOUND for a WOUND".

              [This message has been edited by hafeez123 (edited July 15, 2002).]

              Comment


                #8
                The author is a moron and not even a graduate!

                Comment


                  #9
                  hafeez

                  u have no clue what you are talking about. u have your own interpretation of qisas and are stating it as if it is teh actual interpretation.

                  As far as being misleading, you are misleading. You have no proof, restating the same thing 5 times in 3 threads does not constitute proof.

                  and as far as netiquette goes chanda, as soon as I start calling you names remind me, shabaash. as soon as I start making fun of your holy figures or your faith call me out.
                  The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    same topic being discussed in another thread. Continue discussion there.
                    Your friendly neighbourhood fraudiya loafer luccha lufanga awara ayaash aubaash ghunda badmaash man

                    Comment

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