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    Mecca and Medina as seperate states?

    Do you guys think it would be a better idea to make mecca and medina into seperate states ruled by a coalition of Muslim countries? The Catholics use this system, The Vatican is a seperate state.
    I think it would be a good idea to form a coalition govt from various Muslim nation to govern this state. Morally and ethically, I think it is wrong for any one nation to have any claim on the two cities...

    #2
    could you imagine the power struggle then? I mean look at jerusalem and the issues there.

    vatican is a whole diff ballgame, its for catholics and is independent and from a perspective of the place itself being holy for all christians, its a non issue. Otherwise orthodox church has issues with catholicism, and then you have all kinds of other sects and even fringe groups.

    secondly there is no concept of a pope or a pope like role in Islam from what I know, so who rules that coalition state?

    If sunni's establish a certain vatican like state like a vatican in a new location, and shias establish thier vatican like state in another new location, and the list goes on, then it may work somwhat. But to have an independent state which is held in reverence by many groups is just asking for trouble.

    I am not convinced that people have the capacity at this point to be able to establish and maintain this utopia.

    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

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      #3
      Originally posted by Adnan Ahmed:
      Do you guys think it would be a better idea to make mecca and medina into seperate states ruled by a coalition of Muslim countries? The Catholics use this system, The Vatican is a seperate state.
      I think it would be a good idea to form a coalition govt from various Muslim nation to govern this state. Morally and ethically, I think it is wrong for any one nation to have any claim on the two cities...
      Instead of DIVIDING rule of Mecca and Medina in different hands, why not UNITE all MUSLIM countries to be ruled under one flag/nation?


      ------------------
      May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

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        #4
        Well, I think it might be possible given certain checks and balances. Each country is allowed to send a representative, two from each coutry, sorta like the American system. The president in this case would be elected by the representatives of each of these nations. This group of nations could then be regarded as being a Khalifat state, only this time it would be a democratic Islamic state representing all Muslim nations, Muslims the word over could finally have a single voice. Also, for those who think there should be one whole united Islamic world, this would be one step closer. Muslims would now have a capital. I agree it will take a lot of time to formulate something everyone can agree upon, but thats what they will have to do. The Americans forefathers locked themselves into a room until the came up with something they could all work with. Muslims can do somethng similar...

        [This message has been edited by Adnan Ahmed (edited July 08, 2002).]

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          #5
          Originally posted by Adnan Ahmed:
          ...The Americans forefathers locked themselves into a room until the came up with something they could all work with. Muslims can do somethng similar...

          [This message has been edited by Adnan Ahmed (edited July 08, 2002).]
          with so many puppet regimes, how do u imagine it close to be a 'possibility'?

          ------------------
          May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

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            #6
            Its working fine right now...so if something isn't broken don't fix it

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              #7
              Originally posted by Changez_like:
              Instead of DIVIDING rule of Mecca and Medina in different hands, why not UNITE all MUSLIM countries to be ruled under one flag/nation?

              And all Christian nations can unite under one flag/nation. Wouldn't the world be such a better place with opposing religious empires?


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                #8
                And polytheistic nations such as India, China, Japan etc can untie under one flag. Aaah the boons of religion.

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                  #9
                  seminole and chaltahai:
                  whatever works for others , it'll be easy to identify the 'enemy'

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                  May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

                  Comment


                    #10

                    All kidding aside, a world divided into religous empires would be a disaster. It would only divide us further and as Changez_like indicated, would truly make 'enemies' between religions.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Seminole:

                      All kidding aside, a world divided into religous empires would be a disaster. It would only divide us further and as Changez_like indicated, would truly make 'enemies' between religions.
                      yes, but those "enemies" will be obvious rather than "hidden". today all those enemies still exists, with different names, different faces, you have to figure them out urself.

                      for example, GW Bush said "this war is not against Islam, but its against terrorism", ironically all agencies in US targetted ALL Muslims irrespective of their nationality. u can go into debate "they must have some links to ....." but you really have to cross the fence to see the other side.

                      another example is India. which is regarded as "democratic" country, yet in the 21st century the "democratic" country denied help to minority Muslims against Hindu mobs and now we are finding out the "real causes of the backlash".

                      anyway, the list will go on and on. enemies still exist.

                      ------------------
                      May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Perhaps, but I just dont think that cities as holy as Mecca and Medina should be ruled by just one party. Those cities belong to ALL muslims. At the very least, they should not be included as states within any one state. Its should be a state within itself, open to all muslims, where we are all citizens even if we dont live there. I for one think they can form a govt, for which all muslims should vote for. Sorta like the European Union..

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                          #13

                          Comparisons to the EU, US and Vatican are fine and dandy, but what Muslim institution exists today (or ever) where you can draw a conclusion that a democratic process would work?

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Adnan Ahmed:
                            Perhaps, but I just dont think that cities as holy as Mecca and Medina should be ruled by just one party. Those cities belong to ALL muslims. At the very least, they should not be included as states within any one state. Its should be a state within itself, open to all muslims, where we are all citizens even if we dont live there. I for one think they can form a govt, for which all muslims should vote for. Sorta like the European Union..
                            It happens AA, after all said and done we have a tendency to come to a center, searching fro the “Markez”, ultimately we will be discussing a union of Islamic Countries, (based on EU model) and then one comes to eliminate the borders, then comes one passport, so you can travel from Morocco to Mindanao and from Samerkand to Somalia. Either you grab the ear from this end or that end, the goal is the same. Yours and godfather's purpose & aim is the same, we just need to discuss the process.

                            Ps, please don’t worry; you will still remain a devoted Pakistani.


                            بِن دانا پانی میں جی لواں
                            بِن انَک میں جی نہ سکاں

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by MiniMe:
                              It happens AA, after all said and done we have a tendency to come to a center, searching fro the “Markez”, ultimately we will be discussing a union of Islamic Countries, (based on EU model) and then one comes to eliminate the borders, then comes one passport, so you can travel from Morocco to Mindanao and from Samerkand to Somalia. Either you grab the ear from this end or that end, the goal is the same. Yours and godfather's purpose & aim is the same, we just need to discuss the process.

                              Ps, please don’t worry; you will still remain a devoted Pakistani.

                              AS ALWAYS


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