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Asking God -- Is Any Single Religious Perspective Absolute and Complete?

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    Asking God -- Is Any Single Religious Perspective Absolute and Complete?

    God bestowed upon mankind many blessings. One of these is the gift to reason. Those polemicists that maintain their word is the divine word from God are generally motivated by egoism, disguised as piety. One could condemn the scripture of another religion’s Holy Book all day long. All of them contain arguable inaccuracies.

    An enlightened man will study all religious perspectives and give the benefit of the doubt to others who are following their own path to God. God will decide who is following the correct path(s).

    There could be many ways one gets there: in the form of feeling the spirit of Jesus and trying to emulate his sinless life; or following the righteous path set forth for a Buddhist monk; or living the peaceful, obedient life set forth in the Quran.

    Some follow the strict, literal texts of their scripture. Others believe that God lives within them and follow their inner faith without strict adherence to sacred text. Who can prove one is right and the other is wrong?

    Please read these passages from the great religions of the world, where it has been set forth by God to not show our arrogance and ignorance by declaring our own belief as the whole and single truth.

    The Buddha says, "To be attached to a certain view and to look down upon others' views as inferior--this the wise men call a fetter."
    Buddhism. Sutta Nipata 798
    Truth has many aspects. Infinite truth has infinite expressions. Though the sages speak in divers ways, they express one and the same Truth. Ignorant is he who says, "What I say and know is true; others are wrong." It is because of this attitude of the ignorant that there have been doubts and misunderstandings about God. This attitude it is that causes dispute among men. But all doubts vanish when one gains self-control and attains tranquillity by realizing the heart of Truth. Thereupon dispute, too, is at an end.
    Hinduism. Srimad Bhagavatam 11.15
    Maintain good conduct among the Gentiles, so that in case they speak against you as wrongdoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation.
    Christianity. Bible, 1 Peter 2.12
    Sometimes I [the Buddha] spoke of myself, sometimes of others; sometimes I
    presented myself, sometimes others; sometimes I showed my own actions,
    sometimes those of others. All my doctrines are true and none are false.
    Buddhism. Lotus Sutra 16
    Like the bee, gathering honey from different flowers, the wise man accepts the essence of different scriptures and sees only the good in all religions.
    Hinduism. Srimad Bhagavatam 11.3
    All the doctrines are right in their own respective spheres--but if they encroach upon the province of other doctrines and try to refute their views, they are wrong. A man who holds the view of the cumulative character of truth never says that a particular view is right or that a particular view is wrong.
    Jainism. Sanmatitarka of Siddhasena 1.28
    Suppose you and I have had an argument. If you have beaten me instead of my beating you, then are you necessarily right and am I necessarily wrong? If I have beaten you instead of your beating me, then am I necessarily right and are you necessarily wrong? Is one of us right and the other wrong? Are both of us right or are both of us wrong? If you and I don't know the answer, then other people are bound to be even more in the dark. Whom shall we get to decide what is right? Shall we get someone who agrees with you to decide? But if he already agrees with you, how can he decide fairly? Shall we get someone who agrees with me? But if he already agrees with me, how can he decide? Shall we get someone who disagrees with both of us?... But waiting for one shifting voice [to decide for] another is the same as waiting for none of them. Harmonize them all with the Heavenly Equality, leave them to their endless changes, and so live out your years. What do I mean by harmonizing them with the Heavenly Equality? Right is not right; so is not so. If right were really right, it would differ so clearly from not right that there would be no need for argument. If so were really so, it would differ so clearly from not so that there would be no need for argument. Forget the years; forget distinctions. Leap into the boundless and make it your home!
    Taoism. Chuang Tzu 2
    Confucius said... "In the world there are many different roads but the destination is the same. There are a hundred deliberations but the result is one."
    Confucianism. I Ching, Appended Remarks
    Say, "We believe in God, and in what has been revealed to us, and what was
    revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in what
    was given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets from their Lord. We make no
    distinction between any of them, and to God do we submit."
    Islam. Qur'an 3.84
    Seminole says all great religions talk of the Golden Rule- being tolerant and respectful of each other. That means we should not mock and demean each other’s faith. We should not call each other liars or immature or ignorant because their beliefs do not match our own. We should not say with impunity, that Jesus Christ was NOT the son of God to a Christian. Also, in respect, we should not declare with authority to our Muslim friends that Muhammed was a FALSE prophet.

    Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, and you will find that this is the shortest way to benevolence.
    Confucianism. Mencius VII.A.4
    Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" Jesus said to him,
    "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your
    soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment.
    And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On
    these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."

    Christianity. Bible, Matthew 22.36-40
    The most important knowledge of all is spiritual wisdom. Unless you are walking on water or talking to angels, it is best to humbly claim to be only a servant of God, striving to do his will. To claim to know all and belittle others for not knowing it, is to belittle God as well.

    Please read:
    [God] gives wisdom to whom He will, and he to whom wisdom is given has
    truly received abundant good. But none remember except men of understanding.
    Islam. Qur'an 2.269

    Seminole asks collectively, are we men of understanding?




    [This message has been edited by Seminole (edited June 18, 2002).]

    #2
    by any chance..r u referring to the great Ibrahim's asking God's series??

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Seminole:
      Some follow the strict, literal texts of their scripture. Others believe that God lives within them and follow their inner faith without strict adherence to sacred text. Who can prove one is right and the other is wrong?
      Ibrahim says: Dear Seminole here is where reasoning comes in . There cannot be many Gods for one small planet like Earth, hence even if we assumed there can be other gods for other planets, this planet is too small for having many gods and many paths for a single creation of human beings. . Thus I suggest you do your research in identifying the TRUTH and using you sense of REASON, to face the TRUTH not try to explain you way around it

      The party that can PROVE one is right and the other is wrong is none other than Almighty Creator himself, who has provided a scripture which will STAND OUT and reveal the truth. Thus you need not look at what man said, look at what the Creator said, try and contemplate as to what they are saying and you will realize that TRUTH stands out clear from errors.


      When the CREATOR is ONE, why in the world would HE create many varying paths that, should all lead to HIM (same destination)? It is possible that HE can be approached from all (any) directions but the paths that are being practiced here are actually varying from each other and are not the same.

      When the CREATOR is one, surely HE will lead us on a straight path, which will remain true, pure and eternal in nature.

      Many paths actually leads to many directions and unless one can see them uniting at a certain point and then leading on a straight path to the CREATOR (same destination), one can accept it as true, but this is not the case here, these people are led to believe that they can practice this way of life or that way of life and still they are not going against the true way as shown by the prophets and as written in the scriptures. These people are actually being deceived by the Satan, who has now caused these people to pay part worship to some other idol or thing. Which they believe was responsible for their well being. How naive can one get, if there was a king who was responsible for governing the state and some people offered their tribute to the guards, how foolish it can be, similarly paying part worship to other created things can be a very foolish act.

      The Bible and the Qur’an gives clear evidence of what God had allowed and what God had forbidden, lets explore:-

      Isaiah 45:18… For this is what the LORD says—HE who created the heavens, HE is God; HE who fashioned and made the earth, HE founded it; HE did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited— HE says I am the LORD, and there is no other. I have not spoken in secret from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Yacob’s descendents, “Seek me in vain”. I, the LORD speak the Truth; I declare what is right. Gather together and come; assemble you fugitives from the nations. Ignorant are those who carry about idols of wood, who pray to gods that cannot save. Declare what is to be, present it ---let them take counsel together. WHO foretold this long ago, WHO declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no God apart of me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. Turn to me and be saved.


      In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

      Qur’an 2:256… Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects tagut (meaning anything worshipped beside Allah) And believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks and Allah hearth and knoweth all things. 257.. Allah is the protector of those who have faith : From the depths of darkness HE leads them forth to light. Of those who reject faith, their patrons are the tagut, from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (forever)

      Qur’an 3:177.. Those who purchase unbelief at the price of faith.- Not the least harm will they do to Allah, But they will have a grievous punishment. 178.. let not the unbelievers think that our respite to them is good for themselves: WE grants them respite , that they may grow in their iniquity: But they will have a shameful punishment. 179…Allah will not leave the believers in a state in which ye are now, until HE separates what is evil from what is good. Nor will Allah disclose to you the secrets of the unseen, but HE chooses of HIS messengers whom HE pleases. So believe in Allah and HIS messengers: And if ye believe and do right, ye have a great reward, without measure.


      Qur’an 4:115.. If anyone contends with the messenger even after guidance has been plainly conveyed to him and follows a path other than that, becoming to men of faith, WE shall leave him, in the path he has chosen, and land him in Hell,- What an evil refuge!.

      Qur’an 9:31… They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords beside Allah. And (they take as their lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One God: There is no god but HE. Praise and glory to HIM: (Far is HE) from having the partners they associate (with HIM)


      Qur’an 9:33. It is HE, WHO hath sent HIS messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to cause it to prevail over all religion, even though the pagans may detest (it)


      Thus , Many Paths leads to all the wrong places. And only the straight path leads to God and the scriptures will PROOF this as a FACT.

      Regards
      Ibrahim

      spiritual journey does not begin after death. It is going on all the time. We are in it now.

      Comment


        #4
        I agree seminole...we shud read about other religions...and should keep an open mind....i have read alot abt religions and i dunno why...may be because it is the right path...i always end up having stronger belief in the teachings of Islam.

        Comment


          #5
          Enchanted, it sounds like you have a very thoughtful and enlightened approach. The study of spirituality and other religions can only strengthen our relationship with God. If our faith is strong and rigtheous, and our love for God is absolute, we can only get closer to Him by studying other great works. Even if one believes that his Prophet is the final word of God, it is inconceivable that other religions have not been inspired by God.




          [This message has been edited by Seminole (edited June 19, 2002).]

          Comment


            #6
            Seminole,

            Quran actually testifies that religions other than Islam can lead to Allah:

            5.68/69:
            Those who believe (in the Qurán), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
            Islam does not claim to monopolize salvation.
            I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
            - Robert McCloskey

            Comment


              #7
              Ahmadjee,

              The verse that you have mentioned should not be misinterpreted by the reader as mentioned by Ibn 'Abbas (Tafseer A Tabaree, vol. I, page 323) that the order of this verse was abrogated by verse 85 of Surah Aali-Imraan. And after the coming of the Prophet Muhammad - salallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam - no other religion except Islaam will be accepted, as Allaah - subhaana wa ta'aala states:

              "And whoever desires other than Islam as a religion - never will it be accepted from Him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers." [Surah Aali-Imraan 3:85]

              ---------------
              "No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that He has willed it."

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by ahmadjee:
                Seminole,

                Quran actually testifies that religions other than Islam can lead to Allah:

                Islam does not claim to monopolize salvation.

                Another enlightened comment.

                I don't konw how many others in this fourm would agree with you however. Do you think that is the prevelent opinion of Muslims in general?


                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Hasnain:
                  Ahmadjee,

                  The verse that you have mentioned should not be misinterpreted by the reader as mentioned by Ibn 'Abbas (Tafseer A Tabaree, vol. I, page 323) that the order of this verse was abrogated by verse 85 of Surah Aali-Imraan. And after the coming of the Prophet Muhammad - salallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam - no other religion except Islaam will be accepted, as Allaah - subhaana wa ta'aala states:

                  "And whoever desires other than Islam as a religion - never will it be accepted from Him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers." [Surah Aali-Imraan 3:85]

                  ---------------
                  "No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that He has willed it."
                  Hasnain with all due respect you are basically saying NOT being muslim is unGodly.
                  I totally disagree with that.

                  You know I was struck by this particular gem at the end of the post.

                  >>"No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that He has willed it." <<<

                  This sounds like Hinduism!!! If you truely believe in that why 'Jehaad' ??

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Hasnain:
                    Ahmadjee,
                    The verse that you have mentioned should not be misinterpreted by the reader as mentioned by Ibn 'Abbas (Tafseer A Tabaree, vol. I, page 323) that the order of this verse was abrogated by verse 85 of Surah Aali-Imraan. And after the coming of the Prophet Muhammad - salallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam - no other religion except Islaam will be accepted, as Allaah - subhaana wa ta'aala states:

                    "And whoever desires other than Islam as a religion - never will it be accepted from Him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers." [Surah Aali-Imraan 3:85]
                    Hasnain,

                    The faulty theory of abrogation has been debunked many times. Misunderstanding Allah's scripture resulted in 'scholars' declaring verses of the Qur'an abrogated .. naoozobillah.. Allah's words are not that fickle to be abrogated. Allah doesn't forget. He knows what is to happen and doesn't give us a Book only to contradict the message therein by the same communication.

                    The verse used in support of abrogation has been discussed in this forum and it has been shown that the 'ayat' referred in it are the previous signs of Allah superceded by the communications in the Qur'an.

                    Islam is not Muhammedism. It was the religion of Ibrahim and his sons and those who followed and Moses and Jesus and Prophet Muhammad. Hence the true followers of these prophets are on the right path.

                    The message conveyed in the verses 5:69 and 2:62 remains in effect till the end of time and no fabricated man written story can ever declare Allah's communications abrogated.
                    JaddoN kaddya jaloos ghareeba tay shehr ich choatalee lug gayee

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Nagarjuna:

                      Hasnain with all due respect you are basically saying NOT being muslim is unGodly.
                      I totally disagree with that.
                      Firstly, those were not my word, but the words of the Almighty Creator. And secondly, it does not mean that one is ungodly, simply because he/she worships other than He, whom the Muslims worship, as some poeple even worship the devil, and for them he is their god.

                      Originally posted by Nagarjuna:

                      You know I was struck by this particular gem at the end of the post.

                      >>"No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that He has willed it." <<<

                      This sounds like Hinduism!!! If you truely believe in that why 'Jehaad' ??
                      If it is a part of our belief as Muslims, and it also sounds like Hinduism to you, then why don't you simply become a Muslim? you will find many similarities between religions, but the difference lies in the pillars and the fundamental principles, and as you know these are the most important foundations for any phenomena.

                      I hear you enquire of Jihaad? But which category of Jihaad do speak of?

                      &peace

                      --------------------
                      "No leaf fallse except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms exept that He has willed it."

                      Comment


                        #12
                        PakistaniAbroad,

                        Do you think i am going to believe you, or do you think i shall believe the explanation of these verses as understood by the Prophet - salallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam - and his Companions - radhiAllaahu anum - who Allaah testifies as being the best of mankind? Had Allaah - subhaana wa ta'aala - testified in the Qur'aan that you were amongst the best of mankind, then your interpretation and understanding of Islaam would have carried some weight. But as such is not the case, your words are about as empty as the very breath they were articulated from.

                        Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:

                        Hence the true followers of these prophets are on the right path.
                        Yes, the true followers. But who are these 'true' followers? Those who accpeted Islaam during and after the time of Muhammad - salallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam - which is precisely why Allaah subhaana wa ta'aala states, as i have already quoted:

                        "And whoever desires other than Islam as a religion - never will it be accepted from Him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers." [Surah Aali-Imraan 3:85]

                        &peace

                        -------------------
                        "No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that He has willed it."

                        Comment


                          #13
                          If members wish to discuss other topics, please open alternative threads. In the meantime, stick with the original issue in this thread.

                          Sentinel.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Seminole:
                            Even if one believes that his Prophet is the final word of God, it is inconceivable that other religions have not been inspired by God.
                            Ibrahim says : greetings of peace to one and all

                            Firstly, If you had studied other scriptures ( not what people say about it or about men who may have practiced such faiths) you should realize the essence of it is the SAME originating from the SAME Creator .

                            And If you had sincerity in your heart and earnestness/ desire to know the TRUTH, God will have guided you to realize how this other faiths came about when God onely GAVE/Established one FAITH for all of mankind.


                            Now your notion that many faiths or many religions were enjoined by the one God is A fallacy.

                            Here is how you can understand this.

                            Only One: -

                            Every one agrees that there could be ONLY ONE CREATOR, and that HE had given the same message , here we hope to establish that He had also given us only one Religion.

                            But man due to his limited understanding, chose to interpret it in the way he felt most comfortable to do so, thus altering it in the course of time.

                            Out of the current Religions on this planet of which only five having main stream scriptures and others holding on to the branches of these scriptures , Only one, seems to be clearer and honestly outshine the rest, further it is the latest, which indicates that it is the final message for mankind, meaning the earlier messages had been misunderstood and altered by man, this scripture alone should be considered the ONLY ONE., For our generation. Let us explore , why?

                            1). The only Religious Scripture, that had clearly mentioned, the process of our conception in the womb of the women, is the AL-Qur'an. No other scripture have these details, which have been accepted as the truth by science, which had been written 1423 years ago, when there were no instruments or medical history that enabled us to understand embryology. How such an information, came to be written by an uneducated Arab, living in an uncivilized place, is truly something that one should consider very very seriously.

                            (This is just one of such, information, revealed only in the Al-Qur'an)


                            2). The only scripture, that was written within the lifetime of the teacher and compiled within a short period by his disciples who were actual witnesses to the teachings is the Al-Qur'an, which is also preserved in its original Language till today. The rest were compiled anywhere from 100 to 1000 years later by someone who had no personal contact with the original teacher and often when the actual language of the teacher has been lost, forgotten or no more in use [/b[ Generally it is strongly assumed that it was transmitted through one of the original disciples and often not in the actual language of the teacher but in a translated form, this translations, in other languages prevail and these copies are accepted as the originals today. Here we need to note that, translation's, can vary as each language can have its own peculiar meaning for a word and certain words would have no meaning in the other languages.

                            Most of all if we are observant, we will note that, in most human communication systems a certain amount of body language is used to indicate certain actions and in some cases, certain actions can alter the meaning of a spoken word.

                            For instance, if we consider a messenger delivering a message, might have indicated certain actions by body language, which can never be expressed into words. This being the case, since many of the other scriptures were actually put into words by someone other than the teacher or the direct witness of the events. We must allow room for errors and omissions


                            3). The Only Religion, where you have NO Priesthood or HOLY Leaders, who had to be honored or who claim sainthood or even become exalted as someone greater than the rest or of some divine origin is practiced only in Islam.


                            4). The Only Religion, where all of mankind is considered equal to each other, in the sight of the CREATOR, be he king or pauper is accepted only in ISLAM.


                            5). The Only Religion which does not demand from you to contribute your wealth, for its own prosperity is practiced in Islam. But Charity is to be given to the poor and needy, that is to your own brethren and not for the CREATOR, who had created everything, including your wealth and property.


                            6). The only Religion, where you submit only to the CREATOR in the most humble manner of prostration, consistency and total submission is practiced only in Islam.


                            7). The Only Religion, where all who have accepted the truth, are instructed to assemble at a particular place at a particular time on a particular day, each year, is practiced in Islam. This as a duty enjoined to its followers once in his lifetime, so long as they can afford it by their own means.


                            8). The Only religion where Adultery, Crime, Drinking, Gambling and Morally unsound conduct is forbidden and punished is practiced in Islam onlyform the time it began till today .

                            Just consider we will have no AIDS, Syphilis, HIV, Drunken Behavior, Theft, Violence or Adultery in a truly Islamic society.


                            9). The Only Religion where women, orphans, the poor, the weak, the needy are protected by scriptural laws is found in Islam.


                            10). The Only Religion, which forbids Religious Oppression of the unbelievers, is observed in Islam.


                            11). The Only religion, which tells us of the creation of Jinn's, who are co-existing with us in this planet, is written in the Al-Qur'an. The powers these Jinns posses and their assistance to mankind is also mentioned, plus, how King Solomon with the assistance of these Jinn's, managed to build the temple for God, by using such huge blocks of stone is also mentioned in the Al-Qur'an .


                            (All the wonders of the world, can be better comprehended, when we realize that the Jinn's could have played a part in it) Which is also an indication and explanation for the numerous accounts of unexplained incidents in our daily life.


                            12). The Only religion, in which all of the earlier Prophets and messengers are respected equally and which links these prophets to the earlier scriptures, is the Islamic scripture.


                            This Religion (or way of Life) is known as the Religion of "Truth" and its final version is called Islam. The Islamic scripture is a refinement of the earlier scriptures. If you have adopted its earlier versions, it is incomplete and could easily lead you into confusion and without doubt the earlier scriptures had indicated that , we will have to await the coming of a " Promised One, " called
                            kalki Avatar, Saosthyos, Maitreya, Emmanuel, Messiah and wonderful Counselor,[/b] who will be sent , when we are ready to accept that level of comprehension.

                            (We must further note, that a portion of the book, had been given to every nation, in their own language and when they were told that someone else will come, they had anticipated the arrival till today within their own circles, but what we fail to perceive is that our CREATOR is not a racist and has no chosen sect or tribe that HE has favored within HIS CREATION. Whosoever obeyed HIS commandments and fulfilled their obligations as shown by the chosen prophet ( at that time frame), were all part of HIS favored creation)

                            And most of all, if this promised one was to be sent to a tribe that had already altered its practices, he will immediately be rejected and condemned to death, for he will be trying to promote something new, that will not be in conformity of what that tribe had believed as their original faith, as practiced by their fore fathers and transmitted to them in good faith ( was the general believe).

                            And since so many chapters of the book had been sent to mankind, who had altered it, beyond recognition and who have further coveted that knowledge as their own, restricting and abusing the rest for that grace, that they had been shown earlier, when they had fully kept the faith without altering anything of the scripture, the final message is indeed stern and firm, compared to the earlier messages.

                            Why our CREATOR had given us HIS message in this way , can be more easily understood , when we consider ourselves. In addition to our sense of Pride, feelings of Jealousy, Greed, dominating nature and our ability to lie, act and deceive each other, we are fully capable of rejecting anything that we cannot comprehend and carry on rejecting even if we are able to comprehend , meaning, that we can deny truth knowingly.

                            Had it been our CREATOR'S will to establish HIS supreme authority over HIS creations, it would have been most simple and easy. But HE chose the rule of mercy and had given us sufficient wisdom , reminders plus a conscience and left us to come to our senses within our own lifetime. Everyone of us will be held accountable for our actions. (this is the meaning behind heaven and hell)

                            Many are the generations that had been destroyed for their iniquities, that, they had practiced and their places of worship and dwellings have been left as a sign for mankind to witness and ponder over. But our current generation, seem to be cherishing this ruins as monuments of past glory and forgetting that those generations were destroyed and removed without a trace, for what they had practiced.

                            Hence will you claim you have enlightenment or have understanding when you have NOT realized what all this is about?

                            Or will you claim all faiths are inspired when they have been abrogated by the ONE who gave it on account of mans alterations?


                            Regards
                            Ibrahim

                            If you don’t know where you are going any road will get you there. BUT when you know where you want to go ONLY the road to that destination will get you there

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Husnain,

                              I disagree with your belief, and hold the claim that the two verses do not contradict, abrogate or anything of the like. Instead, they explain the very truthful nature of Islam & the merciful Allah.

                              In the first verse that I quoted: "Those who believe (in the Qurán), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. "

                              Point to note is that the glad tiding to not all the non-Muslims but to those who have these very pious characteristics, regardless of their religion, will have no fear at the day of Judgment.

                              I understand it as those Non-Muslims (at the time of AnHazoor (saw), before and after him as well) who fear Allah, and even though things don't make sense to them; stay steadfast in believing and do righteous deeds ... these are the people, regardless of their belief, are promised to be saved.

                              Taking the example of the local innocent Buba of country side in Grovehill, Mississippi, whose only religious knowledge is the Bible his preacher thought him; never even knew a Muslim in his life time, let alone be approached by a good Muslim who would explain to him the beauties of Islam in a convincing manner .. follows all that is in the Bible and is good to all the people around, is righteous ... what justice is to him that he be not saved?

                              The second verse that you mentioned talks about those who have listened to the message as Allah says in the verses before the one you quoted:

                              "3: 81. And remember the time when ALLAH took a covenant from the people through the Prophets, saying `Whatever I give you of the Book and Wisdom and then there comes to you a Messenger, fulfilling that which is with you, you shall believe in him and help him.' And HE said, `Do you agree, and do you accept the responsibility which I lay upon you in this matter ?' They said `We agree.' HE said `Then bear witness and I am with you among the witnesses.'

                              3: 82. Now whoso turns away after this, then surely, those are the transgressors."

                              So those poeple who realized this promise, know of it; and were bound by it; when these people listen to the message of Islam, and in some cases the message from the Prophet himself, (and who can expalin it better than the Holy Prophet (saw)) but they still "turn away", not fearing Allah then they are no doubt the transgressors.

                              So, based on these verses if someone takes all Non-Muslims of the world ( regardless of if they ever were introduced to the true religion Islam or not, and not considering what conditions were their life based on) are bound to hell, IMHO is a totally false claim!

                              p.s: This is my personal understanding of the issue and should not be taken anything otherwise.

                              [This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited June 21, 2002).]
                              I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
                              - Robert McCloskey

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