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    Questions....

    ASA
    Peace be upon all of you!
    I was advised by many to open a new thread so here it is. I'll try my best to rite without spaces, but plz don't mind my shortened words...makes it easier for me to type.Thank you.

    Okay Questions now
    1. a question my confused mind asks

    Where do we need to have a Prophet today? in saudia? in iran? in Pakistan? i mean all these countries already follow Allah's sriptures.why don't Prophets come in Japan,USA ( badly in need of a Prophet ),in Russia, in China, in lets say scandanavian countries?????? why do they keep coming in countries where ppl already believe in Unity of Allah and that, that he is all Powerful, why??

    2. who is right
    okay i have got a pretty good idea by now that many religions have sprung out because of this verse
    7:35 O children of Adam, IF MESSENGERS COME TO YOU from AMONG YOURSELVES, rehearsing MY Signs unto you, then whoso shall fear God and do good deeds, on them shall come no fear nor shall they grieve.
    Now who is right?
    Qadianies?
    Ahmedies?
    Bahai's?
    Farrakhanis?
    I really want to know this because My aunt who is a bahai gives the same response to my questions as many ahmedies here have given me. she is well versed in Quran and Shariah too.

    3. Moses(A.S.) and Muhammad(S) were not prophets one day and were told the next day of their appointment. They did not rise through the positions of a reformer to a prophet.

    Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani became a debater and a writer in the early 1880s. Then, he claimed to be a reformer (musleh) and a revivalist (mujaddid). His next claim in ascendancy was to be the Mehdi (a divinely guided one who was supposed to come at the turn of each century) and Al-Masih al-Maw'oud (the Promised Messiah). Next, he claimed that he was a shadow prophet within the shadow of the Prophet Muhammad(S). Finally, in 1901 he claimed himself to be a full-fledged prophet of God.


    needs explanation. thank you

    4. Jihad
    Well i have read Islamic (sunni/shia point of view) on this. And well whatever the Terrorists are doing today in the name of Islam cannot be justified. But this doesnot mean that Islamic ruling on this has been adulterated because i was taught at school that Jihad-bil-saif is the last option and we have ahadith where Prophet Muhammad preferred to make a treaty with the Jews instead of fihting with them. So i don't think that Islam needed any new definition of Jihad, Islamic scholars could have done a good job of eradicating the wrong idea. what is your view

    6. marriage of Ghulam Ahmed

    Please shed some light. ( in terms of his prophecies about it and whether or not did they come true)

    7. Who was he?
    1. Prophet
    2. messenger
    3. Messiah
    4. Mehdi

    8. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.
    (The Holy Quran, Al-Maidah 5:3)


    How do u view this verse?

    9.Okay this is last one, an article by a person who renounced Ahmeddiya faith, how do u view his change of belief?

    If he did the wrong thing by renouncing Ahmeddiya, where did he go wrong?
    http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywo...i/balogun.html

    it is true that i have taken all this material from the sites which believe in finality of Prophethood. But i also went through some Qadiyani and ahmediyya sites where sorry to say i just wasn't able to see the light of truth (as u ppl put it)

    _______________________
    May Allah show me the right path.The path in which lies salvation. Amen.


    #2
    enchanted,

    I will try to answer your questions with the best of my knowledge, though others can contribute hopefully in a better way. Though donít expect them to be perfect, my personal views only.

    Answer # 1: First, you are mistaken to believe that the countries you think believe in the oneness of God, wholeheartedly believe in it. Its just lip service or otherwise their actions would show their condition of heart.

    Secondly, the law and the spiritual evolution ended in the holy prophet of Islam (peace & blessings of Allah be upon him), and whoever is to come has to come professing the same law & has to drink from the spiritual fountain of the Holy Prophet (saw). Most of the countries you mentioned & their constituents do not believe in Islam to begin with.

    Thirdly, the prophethood of AnHazoor (saw) was universal and so is Islam. So, weather a prophet in Islam comes in Chattanooga or in Oslo or in a small village of India ... it wouldn't make a difference.

    Answer # 2: I can't make a decision for you! You have to find for your own self! I believe in Ahmadiyyat to be the true Islam!

    Answer # 3: Prophets are very modest (Hazrat Ahmad (as) was no exception) and they do not say a single word with respect to Allah, unless they have clear indications! Mirza Sahib (as) never claimed to be anything more than what Allah told him to be. He wasn't told that he is the Mehdi before, so he never claimed to be .. and so on.

    Answer # 4: The fact of the matter is that majority of the so-called scholars still haven't eradicated it. My views are no different than what Mirza Sahib (as) wrote and I quoted in the other thread. As I suggested before I suggest again that you read Jihad in Islamfrom an Ahmadi perspective, I really canít add to it.

    Answer # 5: MashAllah he was married.

    Answer # 6: (e) All the above!

    Answer # 7: Whole-heartedly believe in the verse! Religion is complete; Islam is perfect, no doubt about it. Does this mean that all 73 odd sects of Islam are practicing the same Islam as the one preached by Prophet Muhammad (saw), I donít think so! So, how do we interpret it in the spirit of the Holy Prophet (saw)? Go to the local mosque Maulvi? No .. it can only be done through divine guidance as foretold by AnHazoor (saw) that his Mahdi & Messiah will bring it back to the right path. And Hazrat Ahmad (as) claimed to be that Mahdi and Messiah, and thus Ahmadiyyat is the true Islam.

    Answer # 8: I am in no place to judging people as only Allah is competent to do that. I can only say that in my opinion he got misguided and may Allah bless his soul. You have to understand that Allah gives guidance to those he chooses, more specifically to those who ask for it with prayers! There are many who at the time of the greatest prophet of all AnHazoor (saw) renounced Islam and at times those were who had the blessing of living close to him, so unfortunate were they. Anyway, this shows that spirituality is a blessing not a skill one acquires.


    [This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited June 06, 2002).]

    [This message has been edited by Sentinel (edited June 07, 2002).]
    I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    - Robert McCloskey

    Comment


      #3
      Origianlly posted by ahmadjee
      ---------------------------------------------
      Answer # 1: First, you are mistaken to believe that the countries you think believe in the oneness of God, wholeheartedly believe in it. Its just lip service or otherwise their actions would show their condition of heart
      ---------------------------------------------

      ahmadjee - let he who is without sin cast the first stone! Is not the pot calling the kettle black? My family and I worship in sincerity - we no more need your derision than you need ours!

      Peace to all who read this...
      If a liberal speaks and no one hears, does it still sound stupid?

      Comment


        #4
        Dear enchanted,

        Where do we need to have a Prophet today? in saudia? in iran? in Pakistan? i mean all these countries already follow Allah's sriptures.why don't Prophets come in Japan,USA ( badly in need of a Prophet ),in Russia, in China, in lets say scandanavian countries?????? why do they keep coming in countries where ppl already believe in Unity of Allah and that, that he is all Powerful, why??
        1. As you know, Allaah - subhaan wa ta'aala - is most Wise. And He has chosen through His infinite Wisdom not to send us another Prophet. Although 'Esa ibn Mariyam - salaatu wassalaam - shall return, he shall not return as a Prophet but as a follower of Muhammad - sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam - and his Sunnah and the Shari'ah. Thus it can be said that the world is not in need of a Prophet (of such) as the final revelation (the Qur'aan) has been revealed and is perfect and the Shari'ah has been established in the religion. If the world was in need of another Prophet, then Allaah would not have made Muhammad - salallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam - the seal of the prophets.

        Allaah - subhaan wa ta'aala - has sent 124,000 prophets to the people over time. The reason they were sent was because of their ignorance to the Oneness of Allaah. They were associating partners with Allaah as a whole. When the Messenger Muhammad - salllaahu 'alayhi wa sallam - came to the people, he came to idol worshippers as a warner and the bringer of glad tidings (i.e. the Qur'aan). Twenty three years following his Prophethood, he brought the people out of the darkness of Shirk into the light of Tawheed. Only then did the people of the Arabian peninsula establish the unity of Allaah in their hearts.

        2.

        Now who is right?
        Qadianies?
        Ahmedies?
        Bahai's?
        Farrakhanis?
        I really want to know this because My aunt who is a bahai gives the same response to my questions as many ahmedies here have given me. she is well versed in Quran and Shariah too.
        My dear enchanted, when we look for answers, we should use a methodology that may lead us to the correct results. For all we know, all the above groups can be wrong and far from the truth. First and formeost, we must look for the truth and then we shall notice the people of the truth.

        "Know the Truth and you shall know its people."

        I have my views of the above groups, but i sincerely advise you to turn to the Qur'aan and Sunnah of the prophet - salallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam - in complete sincerity to find the truth, and be humble and sincerely ask Allaah to guide you, and Insha'Allaah ta 'aala you yourself shall come to know the truth and then its people.

        3.

        Moses(A.S.) and Muhammad(S) were not prophets one day and were told the next day of their appointment. They did not rise through the positions of a reformer to a prophet.

        Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani became a debater and a writer in the early 1880s. Then, he claimed to be a reformer (musleh) and a revivalist (mujaddid). His next claim in ascendancy was to be the Mehdi (a divinely guided one who was supposed to come at the turn of each century) and Al-Masih al-Maw'oud (the Promised Messiah). Next, he claimed that he was a shadow prophet within the shadow of the Prophet Muhammad(S). Finally, in 1901 he claimed himself to be a full-fledged prophet of God.

        needs explanation. thank you
        There is no poof to suggest that Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani was a Prophet or a Messiah. So many have stood up and claimed to be Prophets, but who are we to believe when there exists no evidence for their cries. In fact he could not be a Prophet as Allaah -subhaan wa ta'aala - Himself testifies in the Qur'aan as Muhammad - sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam - being the final Prophet. So for someone to claim to be a prophet is actually a contradiction to Islaam the Qur'aan and its teachings.

        4.

        Jihad
        Well i have read Islamic (sunni/shia point of view) on this. And well whatever the Terrorists are doing today in the name of Islam cannot be justified. But this doesnot mean that Islamic ruling on this has been adulterated because i was taught at school that Jihad-bil-saif is the last option and we have ahadith where Prophet Muhammad preferred to make a treaty with the Jews instead of fihting with them. So i don't think that Islam needed any new definition of Jihad, Islamic scholars could have done a good job of eradicating the wrong idea. what is your view
        For those who claim that Jihaad-bil-saif does not exist, then let it be a reminder from the hadeeth of ibn Mas'ood - salallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam - as reported in both Muslim and Bukhaaree: I asked the Messenger of Allaah - salallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam: what is the most beloved action in the eyes of Allaah? He replied: The prayer at its due time. I asked: then what? He replied: Being dutiful to your parents. I asked: Then what? He replied: Jihaad in the path of Allaah (i.e. bil-saif).

        These are the most beloved 3 actions to Allaah - subhaan wa ta'aala. And there are various verses in the Qur'aan which show the importance of Jihaad-bil-saif and its rewards.

        Also, we see from the history of the Companions and how they participated in jihaad even after the Prophet's demise.

        As to how and when Jihaad-bil-saif should be implemented, then this is a matter of differing cicumstances as the scholars will explain. Jihaad-bil-saif is compulsory for the Muslims if their land is invaded or their houses are rampaged. Also, in self defence and during a threat of attack by the enemy then Jihaad is to be carried out.

        To answer your question, then yes Muhammad - salallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam - did make treaties with one or two of the Jewish tribes around Madeenah, but the jews violated and broke the treaties, which is when the Muslims used force against them. Similarly today, Israel has violated so many UN treaties since the 'establishment' of the state. Also, India, was to hold a plebiscite in Kashmir immediately following the 1947 partition to allow the Muslims of Kashmir to choose whether they wish for independance. We still await this referendum. Furthermore, the country of Checnya has been invaded by the Russians and are raping Muslim women and butchering the men and children, just like in Kashmir and in Palestine. These all require jihaad-bil-saif.

        6 & 7

        marriage of Ghulam Ahmed

        Please shed some light. ( in terms of his prophecies about it and whether or not did they come true)

        7. Who was he?
        1. Prophet
        2. messenger
        3. Messiah
        4. Mehdi
        He had no prophecies that came true. He was neither of the above, as he has no evidence for any of the above claim.

        8.

        This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.
        (The Holy Quran, Al-Maidah 5:3)


        How do u view this verse?
        The religion of Islaam is complete and there are no further additions or subtractions to be made in any aspect of the Religion - Tawheed, 'aqeedah, shar'iah and its rulings(economic, social, political etc) etc. There is no room for newly invented matters as the Religion has been established and is perfect with the final revelation and the Sunnah of Allaah's final Prophet - salallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam.

        9.

        9.Okay this is last one, an article by a person who renounced Ahmeddiya faith, how do u view his change of belief?

        If he did the wrong thing by renouncing Ahmeddiya, where did he go wrong? http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywo...i/balogun.html
        May Allaah guide us all.

        &peace

        ---------------------
        "No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that He has willed it."



        [This message has been edited by Hasnain (edited June 07, 2002).]

        Comment


          #5
          Dear brother hasnain...thank you for ur answers. Actually i know all these reasons...the reason why i posted these questions was to know the answers of Ahmedies... but still thank you for answering them with so much detail. i have studied these things in great detail and i know that all one person can't be A prophet, a Messenger, a mesiah and hazrat mehdi at the same time...but i still wanted to know the ahmeddiya view. Thanx again.

          As for Ahmed jee....Ahmed jee please answer in a little more detail....and about the marriage of Ghulam Ahmed i didn't want to know if he got married or not....actually he made sum prophecies about it....i wanted to know if they came true.

          Comment


            #6
            enchanted,

            ... and about the marriage of Ghulam Ahmed i didn't want to know if he got married or not....actually he made sum prophecies about it....i wanted to know if they came true...
            You must be referring to the prophecy by Hazrat Ahmad (as) towards the family of Muhammadi Begum. Right?

            The prophecy came true word by word and not only that but it came true but was a sign for those Christians and Araiya Samaj peoplewho tried their utter best to make it fail to make it a sign against the Messiah of Islam. But then who can go against the devinely forces.

            Here is an article detailing the history of the prophecy, the actual words, along with exact references.

            I shy away from copy/paste long articles as it annoys readers. So, please visit the link, read it from beginning to end and then make your own judgement. If you do read the whole article and still aren't convinced, then I doubt I can convince you with my limited knowledge.
            I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
            - Robert McCloskey

            Comment


              #7
              Note: AJ, I know this will upset you but please don't take it in the wrong sense.

              I remember talking to my Nana and asking him why they converted back to mainstream Islam. He told me that his father did some research and compiled a list of failed prophecies and general discrepancies. The list forced him to convert back. My Nana said that he had forgotten most of it but he did mention that there was a prediction about Mirza Sahib marrying some woman. The woman got married to someone else contrary to the prophecy. Mirza Sahib then said that she will be in his Nikah after his husband passes away. Unfortunately, the woman never became a widow in Mirza Sahib's lifetime.

              Now, I opened the link you gave me and stopped reading it for a number of reasons.

              1) Too long

              2) Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat (can we expect otherwise of them)

              3) Should I believe a man who has lived through those times, often close to Mirza Sahib, or some obscure biased website? What reason do you think would they have to lie about something like this?

              Comment


                #8
                sambrialian,

                Faith is a complex matter and Allah tests those who believe over and over again. Those who pass are rewarded with a stronger faith; those who fumble, are lead astry. I am sorry to hear about your father and fore fathers. May Allah bless them.

                If you had read the article you would have known that the prophacy was about her father not her, who died 6 months after she was married. The rest of the family reformed themselves after seeing that sign and accepted Islam on the hands of Hazrat Ahmad (as). The convictions of her husband as well as her son are also noted in the article.

                I can only smile at your innocense when you say "Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat (can we expect otherwise of them)" .. if nothing else, scroll down to the bottom of the article, where it sites the conviction of one of the the most bitter apponents of Hazrat Sahib, named Maulvi Muhammad Hussain Batalvi ... even he writes:

                "though the prophecy was fulfilled, yet it was due to astrology" [Ishaatus Sunnah, Vol V]

                Note: Your words didn't upset me, I hope you will not take anything I said personally either.
                I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
                - Robert McCloskey

                Comment


                  #9
                  Frankly, I don't care much about the nitty gritty of all this stuff. I admitted that I didn't read the article and was just passing on some second hand knowledge. Maybe we are not on the same page as far as the topic is concerned.

                  Anyways, knowing a lot of Ahmadis I can say one thing for sure that most of them are very nice people. And thus no different from most Pakistanis. so all this mud slinging that goes on here is very disturbing to someone like me. I really wish that some of these folks would sit down with an Ahmadi and then come out and spew all the hate. I bet it will be difficult for them to be making sweeping generalizations the way that they do now.

                  PS: No offence taken and I'm glad that you took things in the spirit in which they were meant.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    actually ppl i am sorry if u feel i have anything against ahmedies....Actually i don't. the reason i am asking these questions is that for some reason there are only ahmedies in this forum...the first question was asked in another forum and Ahmedis took it quite personally... Although i made it clear all those who disbelieve in finality of Prophethood

                    I actually don't carry any grudge against Ahmedies and although everybody here calls them non-muslims i refrain to do so....why? because then they start to tell u that they r real muslims as stated by zalim dear enchated, its not us Ahamdis who are stuck to one verse, i have lots to share and support my beliefs... the irony is its Muslims who have only one verse i.e. 33:40, that classify you as MUSLIM and me as KAFIR..

                    then i asked this question: okay i would be very frank tell me wat is new in ahmediyat and why was there a need of a messenger. Allah doesnot send them until he knows that his creation needs guidance right. So where did muslims go wrong?...but didn't get any answer so i opened this thread.

                    Qs 1,2 and 8 are for all those who disbelieve in the finality of Prophethood...while the rest are those which i asked ahmedies in other forums but didn't get a reply.

                    Now Ahmed jee u say that u have firm belief in the verse

                    This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.
                    (The Holy Quran, Al-Maidah 5:3)


                    but as i see it u don't really believe in it because u claim that Allah is still sending his favors to the Mankind...thru more Prophets. Prophets are supposed to convey the messages of Allah to mankind...and isn't Allah's message to a person an honour...a favour????

                    If Allah has perfected The religion Islam....why does He want to send a messanger to mankind to alter the ,meaning of JIhad???
                    Why does He want to send a Prophet who would annul the prophesies made by His favourite messenger....the messenger for All world Hazrat Muhammad (p.b.u.h)

                    I don't believe Allah would send any more messenger because allah has clearly stated that He has completed His favors If I want to be guided in this world in which there are 73 odd sects...i wouldn't go to a particular Maulvi...but i would neither...balke never go to a person who disbelieves in the Finility of Prophethood Because atleast now i know that whatever i am doing i am doing by His book...If i go to a Bahia...they would give me a new HOly Book...same with Ahmedies ( a different perspective of Islam)...i Believe in Only asking Allah..Ask him with true heart and HE will tell You and Guide You.

                    About the first question i would say that the explaination given by Ahmed jee doesnot ring true to me sum how. Is their any other disbeliever in the finality of Prophethood who would answer it...A sunni gave a good answer It'll be pretty hard to find followers in western country.(google)
                    doesn't that ring true??


                    _____________________
                    this post is not only for Ahmedies...If there are any bahai's or Qadianis ( are ahmedis same ) or Farrakhanis plz answer.

                    ___________________
                    I am all for any idea...i am not calling u Non-muslims...but i would request u to show me one valid reason for believing u.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      enchanted, what will it take u to understand that mirza qadyani was one of the false prophethood claimers (as a saheeh hadith mentions that the day of judgement will not come unless a certain number of false prophethood claimers show up)....

                      Quran clearly mentions that no prophet will come after Muhamma (pbuh) and Hadith tells us of false prophets showing up, so why shud there be so much surprise in the claims of mirza....

                      musaylma kazab, and i dont remember her name, but a woman also started claiming prophethood and were wiped out by Muslims during the reign of Abu Bakar(ra)....
                      many followed....
                      mirza is one of them....
                      and another guy in america recently claimed to be the messenger of the convent....
                      and yes, u do find ppl with less understanding of the religion, who follow such ppl....



                      ------------------
                      "Our Lord! forgive us our sins and anything we may have done that transgressed our duty; establish our feet firmly and help us against those that resist faith." Quran(3:147)
                      Both Halal & Haram r evident but between them r doubtful things, most ppl have no knowledge about them. So whoever saves himself from suspicious things saves his religion & honor, & whoever indulges in suspicious things indulges in Haram.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by ahmadjee:
                        sambrialian,

                        Faith is a complex matter and Allah tests those who believe over and over again. Those who pass are rewarded with a stronger faith; those who fumble, are lead astry.

                        What you say is correct. Ahmaddiyah is just another school of thought (if we can consider it that). I am not a scholar of Islam so I can't ascertain this for sure. I hope you donít mind if I say I don't have any faith in your sect but if you feel you have found the truth with Ahmadiyyah then best of luck.

                        May all of us be guided.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by enchanted:
                          then i asked this question: okay i would be very frank tell me wat is new in ahmediyat and why was there a need of a messenger. Allah doesnot send them until he knows that his creation needs guidance right. So where did muslims go wrong?...but didn't get any answer so i opened this thread.
                          Dear Enchanted

                          If you say we don't need a prophet because the message of Islam is complete I agree.

                          But if you say we don't need a prophet because Prophet Muhammad (sa) came some 14 century ago and we no longer need anyone right now - I disagree. We do need a prophet, guide, scholar or wise men. The world is in a pathetic shape and we do need guidance.

                          Now, since we do need guidance this doesn't mean we exactly need another prophet (like prophet Muhammad saw) to guide us.

                          Hopes this makes sense.

                          Farhad

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by sambrialian:
                            ........as far as the topic is concernedAnyways, knowing a lot of Ahmadis I can say one thing for sure that most of them are very nice people. And thus no different from most Pakistanis.[/B]

                            Did I miss a point in the thread...? Did any one ask if the Marzayeez are good or bad people?

                            so all this mud slinging that goes on here is very disturbing to someone like me. I really wish that some of these folks would sit down with an Ahmadi and then come out and spew all the hate. I bet it will be difficult for them to be making sweeping generalizations the way that they do now.
                            Sitting together with marzayeez discussing the differences, had not done any good in the past and would not do any better in the future. History tells us that Mirza Sahib used to be a great debater, first as a Muslim and then as a Marzayee (following his own invented religion). I strongly believe the solutions of this thing is only if Muslims keep preaching the Quadiyanees and keep reminding that Mirza's claims has no place in the religion of Islam, and to be a follower of Mirza Sahib will fall under the categories of practicing entirely a different religion and it is up to them (Qyadiyanees) if they really want to practice/follow entirely a different religion other than Islam. Because the biggest misleading these Marzayee leaders tells to their innocent followers is that they still practice the Islam while staying in Marzayeyat which is wrong.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Whoa, whoa, enchanted bhai/behan! I just read your posts. And you said that practically all people in this forum are Ahmadi.

                              Let me clarify, I'm not an Ahmadi, I am a mainstream Sunni. The only reason why I jumped into this quicksand of discussion is because I had a piece of knowledge on which I wanted AJ's opinion. And the last bit of respect and all that was not intended for you but for the general population. I didn't say that because I am an Ahmadi but because I think followers of all religions deserve respect.

                              Just wanted to clear that in case you misunderstood my posts.

                              Comment

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