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Importance of Qu'ran

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    Importance of Qu'ran

    How necessary is the Qu'ran to Islam? Can a person become a Muslim without any knowledge of it? Can one do missionary work without it? Can Islam exist without it? If the Qu'ran was never written, could Islam have grown to the worldwide religion it is today?

    (This question is asked out of curiosity and not intended to be negative of Islam and what is holy to it's adherents.)

    For those that wish to use this thread to ridicule the Islam religion or it's Holy Book, please note that it is intended for serious discussion by people for whom the Qu'ran is dear and that they do not need input from childish people with an own agenda.

    #2
    How necessary is the Qu'ran to Islam?
    Ibrahim says: Greetings of Peace to one and all.

    Dear Old man, you seem to have a very odd question , mostly likely due to the inability to comprehend what the Qur’an is. Let me try to explain this by saying, the Qur’an is a Book ( simplified for your understanding) , the Qur’an addresses all those who received revelation prior to this Book as the people of the book ( Judeo Christians in particular) .

    Hence the Bible means Book according to Qur’an, in fact the word Biblia means book in Greek, plural of biblion , diminutive of biblos ( books), from byblos ( papyrus) and that is how we get the name Bible for “the” book that people of the book use.

    So Qur’an means book, Bible means Book, thus your question is , is the bible necessary for Christianity?

    I think you should know the answer for that.

    Can a person become a Muslim without any knowledge of it?
    Ibrahim says: the word Muslim was given by Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) for all those who submitted to Allah (swt) in the manner prescribed by Him, which involved Shahadatain (Testimony), Salah ( worship of the ONE and Only Creator without ascribing any partners with Him) ) , Zakah (charity) , Sawm (fasting) and Hajj (pilgrimage to the House of God)

    1. Shahadatain(Testimony): To bear witness that there is none worthy of worship except Allah(The Creator), at the time of each Prophet, the second part of this testimony varied, but today one has to acknowledge that Mohammed (Peace Be Upon Him) is His messenger,.


    2. Salah: Daily prayers are offered five times a day as a duty towards Allah. They strengthen and enliven the belief in Allah and inspire man to a higher morality. They purify the heart and prevent temptation towards wrong-doings and evil things. They are: - Salatu-l-Fajr (The Dawn prayer).- Salatu-l-Duhr (The noon prayer). - Salatu-l-Asr (The afternoon prayer). - Salatu-l-Maghrib (The sunset prayer). - Salatul-l-Isha (The evening prayer)

    3.Zakah(Charity): The literal and simple meaning of Zakah is purity, while its technical meaning designates the annual amount in kind or cash that a Muslim with means must distribute among the rightful beneficiaries from his yearly net savings at 2.5%. But the religious and spiritual significance of Zakah is much deeper and more valuable than its Humanitarian, and socio-political value.

    4.Sawm (Fasting): The Muslims during the month of Ramadan do not only abstain from food, drink and sexual intercourse from dawn to sunset but they are also required to abstain from evil intentions and desires throughout the whole months of the year in general, and during the month of Ramadan in particular. It teaches love, sincerity and devotion, and develops a sound social conscience, patience, selflessness and will power as well.

    5.Hajj (Pilgrimage to Macca): It is to be performed once in a lifetime, so long as one can afford it financially and physically, and it is the largest annual convention of faith where Muslims meet to know one another, study their common affairs and promote their general welfare without prejudice or bias as to one's color, race, nationality as well as status in life. After all, everyone is equal in the face of Allah, and so hajj therefore demonstrates in effect the universality of Islam and the brotherhood and equality of Muslims.

    Hence, a Muslim is one who uphold the above 5 pillars , which was identical at all times, in fact, all prophets in the Bible would have preached and practiced the same thing, but due to its corruption, we may not see much of this accept for bits and pieces, here and there in the current bible.


    Can one do missionary work without it?
    Ibrahim says: missionary work can be done by any one who has faith and the correct understanding of what the Creator had revealed, but those that do not have the correct understanding can only corrupt that religion by so doing such work.

    Can Islam exist without it?
    Ibrahim says this is like saying can man exist without a Creator, since it is the Creator who gave man a religion ( complete way of life) and named it Islam.

    If the Qu'ran was never written, could Islam have grown to the worldwide religion it is today?
    Ibrahim says; this shows that you do not understand what the Qur’an is, the Qur’an is the final chapter of the revelation to mankind by the Creator , its earlier chapters are the injeel, zabur and torah ( which was abrogated due to alteration by its adherents) , before that its earlier chapters are the scrolls of Ibrahim (pbuh) which is currently kept in its adulterated and corrupted form by the Hindus called the Veda, which was abrogated the moment the torah was revealed , prior to that there must have been the scrolls of Noah (pbuh) and the scrolls of Adam (pbuh) which has survived in bits and pieces in their adulterated form known as the Manu smtri also kept by the hindus, which was abrogated the moment the scrolls of Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) was revealed.

    Thus the Qur’an is the FINAL words and warnings of the Creator, which has been relayed to mankind through a man, because we cannot accept a message given by someone we cannot see, nor can we accept a message given by an angel or alien, thus for mankind the only message acceptable to us was something relayed through a man who was perfect in character.

    Thus your question shows that you have limited understanding of scriptures and can only quantify based on that limitation which leads you to this misconception.

    Hope that helps

    Regards
    Ibrahim

    If you think the solution of your problem is outside of yourself, you’re living an illusion for the solution is inside the problem

    Comment


      #3
      I was under the impression that the Qu'ran was given to Muhammad by Gibril. What was that bit about aliens?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by TOMASSO:
        [B]I was under the impression that the Qu'ran was given to Muhammad by Gibril. What was that bit about aliens?
        Ibrahim says : Greetings of Peace to one and all

        I am trying to imply that if an angel or alien was walking the streets of this planet and preaching the message from God, none will be willing to accept it, because mankind will claim you are angel , you are an alien , you can do this, and we being human may not be able to do this and we do not want to be compelled by others.

        which means we will declare war on them becuse they are not human ...get it?

        regards
        Ibrahim


        [b] The world lasts but an hour, so spend it in obedience to Allah (swt)

        Comment


          #5
          Dear Old man, you seem to have a very odd question , mostly likely due to the inability to comprehend what the Qur’an is. Let me try to explain this by saying, the Qur’an is a Book ( simplified for your understanding)...
          Ibrahim my good friend
          Why should his questions not be logical from his point of view? I think it is mistaken to state that they are "odd." It might make others hesitate from asking serious questions regarding Islam. He stated his queries are not intended to be negative of Islam; he is known on this Forum for never making derogatory comments regarding any religion.

          Dear Old Man, Islam places a great deal of emphasis upon the Quran's position - everything that is in the Quran is believed to be Divine, the Word of God. You ask whether a person may become Muslim without any knowledge of the Quran; in my opinion, no. For one to become a Muslim, s/he will have to firstly accept that Islam is the religion decreed by God for all of humanity and proclaim the Shahadah (Declaration of Faith) with all sincerity. To wholly accept the Shahadah requires more than a passing knowledge of Islam; it should require extensive study of, and familiarity with, the Quran.

          Tomasso, According to Islam - you are right the Quran was Revealed by God to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) via the angel Jibreel (Gabriel).

          Comment


            #6
            Ok, Ibrahim, can you provide a quote that Gabriel's message was authentic? Does anything address this?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Nadia_H:
              Why should his questions not be logical from his point of view?
              Ibrahim says: Greetings of peace to one and all.

              Dear Sister, logical and odd are not one and the same meaning, it is odd because Old man has been on this forum even before me , and his faith is based on a Bible ( meaning he believes in God) which is similar to the Qur’an, hence to me it is odd, but to you it can be anything. Now don't expect me to know what it means to you when I respond. I respond as I see it not what others may see it.

              Odd in my under standing means differing markedly from the usual way of thinking

              I think it is mistaken to state that they are "odd." It might make others hesitate from asking serious questions regarding Islam.
              Ibrahim says: I doubt it, people here due to the net medium and anonymity lead double lives, so to speak, and can ask what they want and that is why we need a moderator to clean up the mess some are capable of creating.

              He stated his queries are not intended to be negative of Islam; he is known on this Forum for never making derogatory comments regarding any religion.
              Ibrahim says :what made you think, my response was negative or I took it negatively, do you know what it takes to type out the responses by me? I am no typist , I use one finger most of the time and make a lot of mistakes in my grammar and typing, which gets corrected by auto correct,. If I felt he was being funny, I merely ignore it, instead of wasting my time and energy responding to it, it was only because I wanted to help him out of love, I go through the trouble of explaining it for him. Now I have my ways and others have their ways it cannot be the same.

              Hope that helps

              Regards
              Ibrahim

              the hand that beats is the hand that loves

              Comment


                #8
                Ibrahim, I ask the above questions sincerely, as it seems to be a very pertinent request.

                [This message has been edited by TOMASSO (edited June 01, 2002).]

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by TOMASSOk, Ibrahim, can you provide a quote that Gabriel's message was authentic? Does anything address this?
                  Ibrahim says : Greetings of peace to one and all

                  Dear Tomasso

                  I think I already did that, when I related the story about how Christ was born and compared it with the Qur’an, did you not notice what the Angel Gabriel revealed was identical in nature in both books, yet the Qur’an differed about other matters.

                  This is not possible if the Qur’an was copied from the Bible, so when the Qur’an confirms the exchange between Mary as given in the Gospel by Gabriel to Mary. You should have your answer right there, that the Angel Gabriel was the one and the same angel that delivered the message to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

                  Further I mentioned the City of Iram for you in one thread, no one could have known that , when it was only known to mankind some 30 years ago, yet the Qur’an recorded it 1423 years ago as such the message found in the Qur’an is as authentic as it can get. Same goes when you compare the Bible version for Noah’s ark , the resting place given in the Bible and the resting place given in the Qur’an are not one and the same. And historical records shows that it was witnessed as given in the Qur’an whereas after using all the technological advancements we have today they cannot locate it on Mt Ararat as given in the Bible. And no Christian would like to find out the truth about this by venturing to search for it, as given in the Qur’an.

                  Ibrahim, I ask the above questions sincerely, as it seems to be a very pertinent request.
                  Ibrahim says : my friend have some patience and I have no doubts about your sincerity , at the same time, I cannot just tell you something which may be inaccurate, so I always think carefully before I reply and sometimes I have more than one forum to attend to, as such I can have many things going on in my mind at the same time.

                  Regards
                  Ibrahim

                  the most loved by God are those that serve His creatures., so I am at your service because of love of God


                  Comment


                    #10
                    Nadia_H:

                    Islam places a great deal of emphasis upon the Quran's position - everything that is in the Quran is believed to be Divine, the Word of God. You ask whether a person may become Muslim without any knowledge of the Quran; in my opinion, no. For one to become a Muslim, s/he will have to firstly accept that Islam is the religion decreed by God for all of humanity and proclaim the Shahadah (Declaration of Faith) with all sincerity. To wholly accept the Shahadah requires more than a passing knowledge of Islam; it should require extensive study of, and familiarity with, the Quran.

                    Nadia_, I accept what you say about the Qu'ran's special role in Islam. I therefor also understand why it is of the utmost importance that Muslims have to believe and defend the fact that there never was any changes/errors in the history of the Qu'ran's existence.

                    Would you therefor say that if the Qu'ran was never given to the Prophet Muhammed, Islam would never have came into existence, or would the Prophet still have been able to spread the word? If it is inappropriate to discuss an hypothetical question, please ignore.

                    What does the Qu'ran mean to you in your daily life?

                    [This message has been edited by The Old Man (edited June 02, 2002).]

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Dear Ibrahim: Am I correct if I understand from your post that if a person do the 5 items (Shahadatain, Salah, Zakah, Sawm and Hajj ), that he can be called a Muslim?

                      According to your statement: "...this is like saying can man exist without a Creator", I take it that Islam would not be able to exist as the Qu'ran is the only form of communication that there is between a Muslim and his God.

                      I'm sorry but your toil on the answer about whether Islam would have grown to the worldwide religion, does not answer the question. Would it, yes or no?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I therefor also understand why it is of the utmost importance that Muslims have to believe and defend the fact that there never was any changes/errors in the history of the Qu'ran's existence.
                        Dear Old Man, that is true. You know quite a bit about Islam.

                        Regarding the particular questions in your post - the difficulty for me is not that it's inappropriate to discuss hypothetical questions; it is that it is difficult to surmise what may have been. I will try my best though, and I hope I will not sound too vague. In Islam, it is believed that the Books Revealed prior to the Quran - the Torah, the Bible - also contain God's Messages; every Messenger conveyed an identical message, i.e., that of pure monotheism, but that the words of these Messengers and the Revealed Scriptures they brought were modified over time by humans. In Islam, the Quran represents the Final, unaltered and unalterable Message of God, (as you already are aware). I do not believe Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) would have been able to spread Islam without the Quran - it's position is too central. According to Islam it is the Final Message for humanity, a true Mercy from God that He gave us this warning through His Last Prophet. As such, that the work the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) carried out would still have occurred in the absence of the Quran, is not realistic to me at all, (just my humble opinion though).

                        This discussion sort of touches upon Islam's stipulations regarding God's Will; in Islam we believe that every act that occurs, occurs only with God's Will. I personally believe that the Revealing of the Quran was meant to be. I know this might be a bit difficult to understand because I suck at articulating this with words. There's a Quranic verse you might have already come across that expands what I am trying to say: He knoweth whatever there is on the earth and in the sea. Not a leaf doth fall but with His knowledge: there is not a grain in the darkness (or depths) of the earth, nor anything fresh or dry (green or withered), but is (inscribed) in a record clear (to those who can read). If I have failed at explaining this better, I can only apologize. I am sorry.

                        What does the Qu'ran mean to you in your daily life?
                        In my daily life ... um it means a source of comfort. Irregardless of whatever type of a day I may have, reading it is like covering yourself with a blanket of tranquility. Until a few years ago I used to find it very easy to get caught up in day-to-day things to the extent that I really did not give as much attention to the Quran as I should have. Now when I read it, it's like a clarion call - it's extremely humbling, soothing, and strengthening. It also forces me to acknowledge what I have done over the past 24 hours and hopefully repent earnestly and humbly for sins I have committed. I don't know whether I read it more for the peace that I get from it or for the sense of repentance, humility and wonder; perhaps a little bit of all.

                        ------------------
                        Verily in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find rest ~ XIII.28

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Nadia, an excellent explanation.

                          If I can just add, (as I see it), the Qur'an reinforces the universal message from The Creator to Mankind, passed through His messengers, from Adam (pbuh) to Muhammad (pbuh). The position of the Qur'an is very central.

                          >>>Would you therefor say that if the Qu'ran was never given to the Prophet Muhammed, Islam would never have came into existence, or would the Prophet still have been able to spread the word? If it is inappropriate to discuss an hypothetical question, please ignore.<<<


                          Perhaps if the previous Deens weren't "corrupted", there may have been no need for the revelation. God knows best.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Dear Ibrahim: Am I correct if I understand from your post that if a person do the 5 items (Shahadatain, Salah, Zakah, Sawm and Hajj ), that he can be called a Muslim?
                            Ibrahim says : Greetings of peace to one and all

                            Dear old man, I

                            slam is a complete way of life , so what I gave you was the "starter pack", which is the 5 pillars of Islam, meaning these 5 actions support all the other actions a Muslim will have to endure in his life till his last breath. Now you have been around this forum, quite some time, you know people here discuss an argue at length about SUNNAH (the path) so a Muslim is one who follows that path. That path had already been mentioned in the Bible, so let me quote it so that you will understand better.

                            Matthew 7: Christ said…..

                            13. "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

                            14. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

                            15. "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

                            Ibrahim says : thus a Muslim is not just one who does 5 things to be Muslim but one who lives his life and practices Islam to the fullest within the narrow road.

                            On the other hand every tom, dick and harry can call himself/herself a Muslim, even when he/she does nothing that comes close to Islam, except that he/she may have been born to some Muslim parents.

                            According to your statement: "...this is like saying can man exist without a Creator", I take it that Islam would not be able to exist as the Qu'ran is the only form of communication that there is between a Muslim and his God.
                            Ibrahim says; which means you are limited in your understanding, you see old man , I recall, I had explained to you earlier how a man, marooned on mars can still be guided by Allah (swt) without any book and today I explained to heart_beat on the other thread, in which you too have been participating , how every human being has been given an additional spirit to protect and guide him, immaterial of faith by Allah (swt) .

                            Thus, I am wondering, why you are having problems understanding this, at the same time, the reason why a BOOK is also given by Allah (swt) is that, the whisperer ( shaitan/satan) can throw in his deviated version into such communications to misguide mankind , which can mislead mankind as such Allah (swt) had ensured there is an INTACT instruction manual ( Qur’an) on the planet at all times for man to verify/ cross reference the communication as true or false.

                            I'm sorry but your toil on the answer about whether Islam would have grown to the worldwide religion, does not answer the question. Would it, yes or no?
                            Ibrahim says: Dear Old man , I believe in giving a person a fishing rod and guiding him how to catch fish, not serving him a fish, when ever he gets hungry, in this way I hope to teach him how to fish rather than hoping for someone else to provide the fish all the time. Meaning, I wanted you to THINK, but that has eluded you it seems.

                            Second, some questions cannot be answered with an yes or no, let me just give you an example

                            Have you stopped beating your wife, Old man??, would you like to answer with a simple yes or no? so I hope you get the picture.

                            Now as I explained much earlier, The Creator , will ensure His creation is guided even without a book, you can witness this amongst the animals, they too perform worship to God as well as other preset functions which have been installed into their memories and need not have any book to guide them as to what they are to do in their life time.

                            As such Islam does not survive on the basis of the existence of the Qur’an, Islam survives and spreads because that has been what the Creator designed from the beginning for His creations. Islam spreads and survives due to the natural inclinations of mankind (seeking His Creator and being good and grateful) since it is based on the very nature of human behavior as the Creator intended it to be, from the start.

                            Hope that answers your question, but my dear old man , you should try to catch that fish , I let lose first

                            Regards
                            Ibrahim

                            The dead sea is dead only because it takes in water and doesn’t’ give any out .

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Nadia_H:
                              Thanks for the answer, Nadia.

                              Comment

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