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    ‘Unlike Ram, Mohammed and Christ were historical figures’

    Unlike Ram, Mohammed and Christ were historical figures

    Vinay Krishna Rastogi

    Unlike Lord Ram, Prophet Mohammed and Jesus Christ were historical personages, Dr Sita Ram Rai, 28th witness of the Sunni Central Waqf Board told the Allahabad High Court yesterday.

    Dr Rai made this statement during cross-examination by Ved Prakash, counsel for Dr T P Verma, plaintiff in suit number five, that is, Sri Ram Lalla Virajman versus others.

    When the hearing of the Ayodhya case resumed yesterday after a weeks break, the counsel asked Dr Rai, a retired director of the Department of Archaeology and Museums, Bihar, if he considered Prophet Mohammed and Jesus Christ too as imaginary figures (Dr Rai had earlier called Ram as one).

    To this, Dr Rai reiterated his statement about Ram being an imaginary figure but said Mohammed and Jesus were indeed historical figures.

    Asked if he regarded the genealogy of Lord Ram, as drawn by British historian Positor in his book Ancient Indian Traditions as historical or not, Dr Rai replied in the negative. Rams father King Dashrath was also an imaginary figure, he said.

    However, when the counsel suggested that he was indulging in a misinformation campaign (kuprachar) about Lord Ram, Dr Rai stoutly denied doing so. This (charge of spreading the wrong information) is not correct, the witness told the court.

    Dr Rai also said he had not become witness for money, and no money had been offered to him from any quarter.

    Asked when he had shown his published article Ayodhya: A Historical and Archaeological Study to Zafaryab Jilani, counsel for the Sunni Central Waqf Board, Dr Rai said he had done this after he arrived in Lucknow on April 21 to appear as witness in the case.

    When the counsel wanted to know if he had seen a stone bearing the Varah Avatar of Lord Vishnu found at the disputed site, Dr Rai replied he had not seen the stone but had seen its photograph in court.

    Puttu Lal Misra, counsel for Rajendra Singh, plaintiff in suit number one, then asked the witness if he had done any study on Rishi Vishwamitras ashram in Buxar. To this, Dr Rai replied that he had studied the matter but had found no evidence of Vishwa-mitras ashram in Buxar or Mithila in Bihar.

    #2
    What has that got to do with anything ?
    It is not like Muslims got a Document from Prophet Mohammed giving that land to them!!!

    Anyway, that place ought to be given to the owners.
    And the owners are whoever the courts say they are.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Andhra:
      What has that got to do with anything ?
      If you aren't real, you don't have a birth place.

      "A woman has got to be able to say, and not feel guilty, 'Who am I, and what do I want out of life?' She mustn't feel selfish and neurotic if she wants goals of her own, outside of husband and children"

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by aishaA:
        If you aren't real, you don't have a birth place.

        If you aren't real, you can't send divine Prophets who claim to be real.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Nobel:
          If you aren't real, you can't send divine Prophets who claim to be real.

          I think what she means is "physical", if Ram is considered to have "physical/real" figure in the world then he would have birthplace, if "Ram" was not present "physically" in world, his/her birthplace wouldn't exist right?

          ------------------
          May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

          Comment


            #6
            Can anybody proove Prophet Mohammed Existed like show his video or photograph or DNA?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Changez_like:
              I think what she means is "physical", if Ram is considered to have "physical/real" figure in the world then he would have birthplace, if "Ram" was not present "physically" in world, his/her birthplace wouldn't exist right?

              Yes. I understand her point. The point I am raising is a related one. Let me say it this way. Do you really believe that your every move is being being monitored by a dead Prophet or the divine being who sent him? Are they sitting around with LCD plasma screens monitoring everyone and tallying up points to see who should go to heaven and who should go to hell? Is that real? All religions have an element of imagination in them.

              Comment


                #8
                hmmmmm Andhra, and what would you compare the DNA with??
                JaddoN kaddya jaloos ghareeba tay shehr ich choatalee lug gayee

                Comment


                  #9
                  >>hmmmmm Andhra, and what would you compare the DNA with??<<

                  Hey that's a real thought.
                  Still you CAN corroborate some things.
                  Like, if two places claim to carry the Prophet's hair or something!!!
                  Or you can cross check on the graves of his family.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Andhra:
                    >>hmmmmm Andhra, and what would you compare the DNA with??<<

                    Hey that's a real thought.
                    Still you CAN corroborate some things.
                    Like, if two places claim to carry the Prophet's hair or something!!!
                    Or you can cross check on the graves of his family.
                    I can bring "anyone's DNA" and present other DNA's for his family, would that suffice?

                    BTW, Prophet's grave is in Medina, try to pull it out of there to see if he really existed. PA raised a valid question, DNA does not prove ANYTHING.

                    Andhra says: "Can anybody proove Prophet Mohammed Existed like show his video or photograph or DNA?" how OLD a pic have you seen? Have you seen ANY 1000 years old pic? a video? some minds are really pathetic.

                    ------------------
                    May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Changez_Like, some minds on the otherhand do not seem to understand subtlety!!!

                      What I meant was can anybody 'Give Evidence' of these historical persons as we understand evidence NOW?

                      Like if somebody wants you to proove you are yourself what do you produce?

                      So the only way you can verify the authenticity of these people is to cross check different places, things.

                      Comment


                        #12

                        Andhra

                        We cannot provide a video, but we can provide something more authentic.

                        The Qur'aan.

                        And if you feel this isn't good enough, then meet the challenge:

                        002.023 And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.

                        002.024 But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.


                        The shortest Surah is only four lines long:

                        112.001 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

                        112.002 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

                        112.003 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

                        112.004 And there is none like unto Him.


                        And it is in this Scripture which states that Muhammad PBUH existed!!!!!


                        Prove us wrong!!

                        You've only got to produce 4 short sentences, and we can then accept your rulings.

                        We await.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          sholay,

                          define like it
                          JaddoN kaddya jaloos ghareeba tay shehr ich choatalee lug gayee

                          Comment


                            #14

                            PA

                            You've lost me.

                            Please elaborate!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              oh i apologize.. I meant define "like thereunto"..

                              the challenge of the Qur'an .. of bringing a Surah like it. How would you define that.

                              I know digressing but Andhra isn't going anywhere with his theory either.

                              [This message has been edited by PakistaniAbroad (edited May 14, 2002).]
                              JaddoN kaddya jaloos ghareeba tay shehr ich choatalee lug gayee

                              Comment

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