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    Ahmadi's view of Bahai's

    NY

    I was going to email this question to you because like every other post, I kow this is going to turn into a battle zone.

    I just wanted to get an idea of what Ahmadi views are regarding Bahai's.

    I am not getting into an Ahmadi vs Baha'i argument here. Just a simple inquiry.

    For others..I am not prepared to discuss Baha'i faith with anyone.

    Reagrds
    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

    #2
    Salam pir sahab !

    Thankyou for your query.

    Well, most Muslims consider that there is a lot of similarity between Ahmadis and Bahais. This is a very erroneous thought and I believe the same attention compelled you to pose this post. Anyways I will try my best to answer your query.
    Since this post has been addressed to Ahmadis, I feel it will be more appropriate to reply the post in comparison.

    [PS: others please refrain from irrelevant talks]


    Ahmadi declare their faith by saying “laelaha il’lal lah Mohammad’ur rasool-allah”
    >> No kalima exists in Bahai faith.

    Ahmadis consider the holy Quran as the last law-bearing book.
    >> Bahai consider “AL-AQDAS” as the last law bearing book.

    Ahmadis act of worship includes, 5 daily prayers, fasting, zakat or prescribed alms, pilgrimage, obeying the sayings of Allah and Prophet Mohammad(sa).
    >> In Bahai Faith there are no prayers, no fasting, no charity (zakat), neither they obey/observe any Islamic fundamental nor they value one. coz all these fundamentals are not mandatory in their faith.

    Ahmadis proclaim Islamic shariat as complete (kamil and mukamal).
    >> They have their own shariat, and they invalidate the Islamic shariat.

    Ahmadis has 30 or 29 days in a month, and 12 months in a year. Based on lunar calendar.
    >> Bahis have 19 days in a month and 19 months in a year, based on solar calendar.

    Ahmadis obey the marital relation as prescribed by the Quran.
    >> In Bahis, except mothers (haram), one can wed anyone (halal), [this also includes sisters and daughters].

    Ahmadis greet someone by saying “Asalamo alaikum”.
    >> Bahis greet by saying “Abu al-bahar”.

    Ahmadis call themselves Muslims.
    >> They pronounce themselves as Bahais.


    That’s all I know about the difference between Ahmadis and Bahais.
    If you are looking for a short review on their basic beliefs, I will be happy to jot down that too.


    Thankyou

    xalim ::::: [[email protected]]



    [This message has been edited by Zalim (edited February 14, 2000).]
    zameen tumhara kuch nahin bigar sakhtee, ger aasman say taluq pukhta ho....

    Comment


      #3
      Fraudia Yar, Zalim did a very good job, but here are my views anyway. (I am not a practicing Ahmadi and my views on the issue will be my personal and not Ahmadis' in general). There are obvious differences (as Zalim pointed out) and only a few similarities among Ahmadis and Bahais. Bahaism is more like a "modern" and independent religion, whereas Ahmadis consider themselves to be an offshoot of Islam (or a sect of Islam). Bahaullah and Ghulam Ahmad both were philosophically inclined but the focus of their inclination was very different from one another. Ghulam Ahmad towards spirituality and Bahaullah for Economic and Social Development in conjunction with spirituality. Bahais are a lot more in numbers (around 5 million) and are spread all over the world, whereas Ahmadis are still growing. I have Bahai friends, and I have read some of the stuff that is written by Bahaullah, and it makes a lot of sense to me.

      Bahauallah spread his message primarily in Iran a little before Ghulam Ahmad was doing it in India. Bahaullah lived in exile most of his life and Ghulam Ahmad did not. Bahais were persecuted in Iran and Ahmadis were not persecuted to the same extent (in fact Ahmadis had it a lot better). Both are very tight-knit communities and emphasize commerce, education, and equality for all. Bahais believe that all spiritual persons were prophets of God (including Bhudda, Zaroastor, and all, and they believe that Prophets will continue to come). Ahmadis believe only in the Biblical prophets (like Muslims) and they don't believe that Ghulam Ahmad was a prophet (I know I will get a bad press for that). They believe that Ghulam Ahmad was "Masseh Maood" (promised Messiah). I will leave it at that.

      Although the idea of combining spirituality with social and economic development is very appealing but at the same time, I believe that why even bother with spirituality as that is something that should be purely personal.

      Bahaullah says that the Earth is one Country and all of mankind is its citizens. I think that is a very courageous and bold statement. He also preached that each of the prophets came down to bring something new, as they believe that each spiritual leader brought a new development in civilizations as spiritual development is successive and ongoing and prophets will continue to come for as long as there is mankind.

      Now your turn to tell us a little about differences and similarities between Southern Baptists and Sunnis.

      Comment


        #4
        its amazing how little do u know. do ahmadies have a different kalma? this ahmadi girl i knew said that there was... are there two sections of ahmadies? after reading zalims' post i dont see any contradiction on major concepts of Islam.

        If Ghulam Ahmad was the last Massiah then how come not a lot of ppl know about it. The only ones who beleive this are the people from his little village. no persian muslims, no arab muslims, no african muslims, no indonesian muslims, no malysian muslims, no afghani muslims are aware of this happening.
        how come they all missed him?

        Comment


          #5
          Zalim and NY

          Thanks for your responses. I asked this because I saw similarities between communities i.e. tight knit...persecuted against in many areas etc.

          Its strange that my knowledge about Bahai's which is an entirely different religion is more than what I know about Ahmedis which I personally view as muslim sub-group (okay okay, i will get flames now)

          I am interested in learning more about the Ahmedi views, and the reasons why they are persecuted.

          If this forum is not the right place for it, due to possible attacks, both of you are welcome to email me.

          Thanks for the objective and logical responses.

          The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

          Comment


            #6
            zalim

            "Ahmadis call themselves Muslims".
            >> They pronounce themselves as Bahais.

            your'e right there, ahmadis 'call' themselves muslims. they are not muslims but putting up a facade of being muslim

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Zalim:
              [Ahmadi declare their faith by saying “laelaha il’lal lah Mohammad’ur rasool-allah”
              >> No kalima exists in Bahai faith.

              Ahmadis consider the holy Quran as the last law-bearing book.
              >> Bahai consider “AL-AQDAS” as the last law bearing book.

              Ahmadis act of worship includes, 5 daily prayers, fasting, zakat or prescribed alms, pilgrimage, obeying the sayings of Allah and Prophet Mohammad(sa).

              HAAA!!! Kalima kisee aur ka following kisee aur ki! Wah, keya baat hai qadiyanion! Who you trying to fool?


              obeying the sayings of Allah and Prophet Mohammad(sa).

              HAHAHAHA!!! You're kidding right? What about obeying Mirza Ghulam Ahmed, the person YOU Qadiyaanis call "the prophet?"

              Comment


                #8

                If I didn't know that Zalim was a Qadiani, his response would be passed as a classical mainstream Muslims.


                However, this is where the real danger lies!

                The bottom line is that both Qadianis and Bahais are OUTSIDE the fold of Islam.

                Finally, why would a Qadiani state ' There is no God except Allah and Muhammad is His Messenger'.

                Knowing full well that Ghulam Mirza was also a Prophet i.e Messenger.

                Why not say ' There is no God except Allah and Mirza is His Messenger'.

                Comments!!!!


                Comment


                  #9
                  Hum...

                  Sholay, you need to give it a little more effort in finding things before making a statement.

                  Don't you think?
                  I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
                  - Robert McCloskey

                  Comment


                    #10

                    Ahmedjee

                    Please don't press me, as you know exactly where I'm coming from.

                    You'll be surprised at what I can pull out!!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      sholay,

                      I have pressed you before & I don't know where you are coming from.

                      I only wish I could change it!
                      I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
                      - Robert McCloskey

                      Comment


                        #12

                        Here you go:

                        "We claim to be Rasul (Messenger) and Nabi (Prophet)."
                        (Al-Badr, March 5, 1908, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)

                        "Lo! We have sent unto you a messsenger as witness among you, as we once sent a messenger unto Pharaoh."
                        (Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 101)

                        "I swear by God in whose hand lies my existence and say that it is He who has reputed me and called me a prophet and the Messiah."
                        (Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 68, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)

                        "He (Mirza Ghulam) is a prophet of God and the like of every prophet."
                        (Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 79, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)

                        "I (God) shall stand by this (Mirza Ghulam) prophet."
                        (Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 87, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)


                        Sorry Moderator, but I did warn you!!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by ahmadjee:
                          Hum...

                          Sholay, you need to give it a little more effort in finding things before making a statement.

                          Don't you think?
                          Find what things?

                          Act like a Muslim and sting like a Qadiyaani!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            sholay,

                            Do you want me to point out the web address where you got these from?

                            On second thought, have you read Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, do you even know what its about?

                            Would you like to read it?!
                            I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
                            - Robert McCloskey

                            Comment


                              #15

                              Ahmedjee

                              You can point where you like.

                              The facts still remain the same!

                              I'll read your copy of Haqiqat Ul Wahi, providing it is translated into English and not only available in Urdu, like a lot of Qadiani Literature!!!

                              As you do have a copy, please feel free to rebut the claims and correct me if I am wrong, giving the actual correct statements.

                              The balls in your court now!!

                              Comment

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