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Why I chose to follow the Sunnah & Hadiths ...

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    Why I chose to follow the Sunnah & Hadiths ...

    Because Allah says in Surah - Al-Ahzab:

    33: 22/21: Verily, you have in the Prophet of ALLAH an excellent model, for him who hopes to meet ALLAH and the Last Day and who remembers ALLAH much.

    Its very clear that in order to be close to Allah (a common goal of all religions), the best way is to follow the model (Sunnah) of The Holy Prophet (saw).

    But you ask, how to gauge what is truly the 'Word of the Holy Prophet (saw)' and his 'Sunnah', keeping in mind the fact that the books that illustrate these were compiled long after AnHazoor (saw) physical presence in this very world? And also keeping in mind that Allah only promised Quran as 'Kitab-e-Mahfooz' not any other book?

    My answer: There is no disagreement in Quran, Sunnah & Hadiths! The disagreement is in our understanding of the three domains. As the beloved Prophet (saw) cannot say anything against the word of Allah, nor can he act not being inline with the teachings of Quran. So, if there seems to be clash, its either in the reporting of the saying of the Holy Prophet (saw) or the reporting of his Sunnah! Or that we do not know the whole context of the situation in which it was said & the misunderstanding is on our side!


    [This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited May 07, 2002).]
    I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    - Robert McCloskey

    #2
    WoW, I am surprised/shocked this thread coming from a Ahmaedi/Qadiyaani, anyway.


    To further emphasize on AJ's point:
    [*]Say (O Muhammad): Obey Allah and the
    Messenger (Muhammad). But if they turn away, then Allah does not like the
    disbelievers. (Aali Imraan 3:32)
    [*]O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger (Muhammad) and render not vain your deeds. (Muhammad 47:33)
    [*]Verily, We have sent you (O Muhammad) as a witness, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner. In order that you (O mankind) may believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that you assist and honour him, and
    (that you) glorify (Allah's) praises morning and afternoon. (Fath 48:8 9)
    [*]And whatsoever the Messenger
    (Muhammad) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from
    it), and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Severe in punishment. (Hashr 59:7)
    [*]Say (O Muhammad to mankind): If you (really) love Allah then follow me (i.e. accept Islamic Monotheism, follow the Qur'an and the Sunnah), Allah will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allah is Oft
    Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Aali Imraan 3:31)
    [*]Obey Allah and obey the Messenger,
    but if you turn away, he (Messenger Muhammad) is only responsible for the
    duty placed on him (i.e. to convey Allah's Message) and you for that placed on
    you. If you obey him, you shall be on the right guidance. The Messenger's duty
    is only to convey (the message) in a clear way (i.e. to preach in a plain way).
    (Nur 24:54)



    ------------------
    AND WHEN IT IS SAID TO THEM: "DO NOT MAKE MISCHIEF ON THE EARTH", THEY SAY "WE ARE ONLY PEACE-MAKERS" VERILY, THEY ARE THE ONES WHO MAKES MISCHIEF, BUT THEY PERCEIVE NOT"-[Qur'an-2:11-12]

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by ahmadjee:
      [B] So, if there seems to be clash, its either in the reporting of the saying of the Holy Prophet (saw) or the reporting of his Sunnah! Or that we do not know the whole context of the situation in which it was said & the misunderstanding is on our side!
      Definitely ! Any hadeeth that doesn't talk of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (S) being the last Prophet should be OK for the Qadianis to follow !!

      Comment


        #4
        this is the whole point of hadeeth that i don't understand!

        if there is a clash between the Qur'an and hadeeth, we say that there is a misunderstanding between what was done and how it was reported---> so, in this case we prefer the Qur'an
        if there isn't any clash, y would we still choose Hadeeth, because it would be even better to choose the Qur'an:

        what I'm trying to say is that, whatever situation (whether hadeeth clashes with Qur'an or doesn't) there is no point in following Hadeeth, because everything what is necessary is already stated in the Qur'an! and as far it isn't stated in the Qur'an, one can conclude that it isn't necessary, otherwise it would have been in the Qur'an!

        so, for me the Hadeeth has no more value than merely history writing! just as Herodotus reports Greek history or a Plinius reports Roman history: the same way the Bukharis and Muslim of this world only and nothing more than that report the history of the holy prophet, and just like in any other book of history there are mistake in it! So no point in thinking these books as semi-devine!

        ------------------
        "Plan for the future - because that's where you are going to spend the rest of your life"
        "The only place where 'success' comes before 'work' is the dictionary"
        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        This message was sponsored by the "Guppie of the Year"-Award Committee
        Why so serious ... ?

        Comment


          #5
          well if u wish to regard hadith just as a mere history, then do so at ur own pleasure....

          but be very content that u not causing harm to anyone by rejecting the Prophet's words....

          Quran does tell us about people like u....
          Quran 3:184 Then if they reject you (O Muhammad SAW), so were Messengers rejected before you, who came with Al-Baiyinât (clear signs, proofs, evidences) and the Scripture and the Book of Enlightenment.




          ------------------
          "Our Lord! forgive us our sins and anything we may have done that transgressed our duty; establish our feet firmly and help us against those that resist faith." Quran(3:147)
          Both Halal & Haram r evident but between them r doubtful things, most ppl have no knowledge about them. So whoever saves himself from suspicious things saves his religion & honor, & whoever indulges in suspicious things indulges in Haram.

          Comment


            #6
            NeSCio,

            I understand where you are coming from and its a valid argument. Though, you have to understand that not all Hadiths deal with "Shariah" or the law & mostly its these Hadiths that at times cause a 'clash' (as you probably have read in different threads here)

            Many Hadiths deal with simple every day to day matters of life, like treating one's parents or spouse, how the Holy prophet performed certain rituals, predictions of the future, etc. In other words, there is a whole load of knowledge that is buried in there that cannot and should not be ignored.

            Another factor is the "love of the Holy Prophet (saw)" Just like if I truly like someone, I would want to be like him too & if on top of that Allah says he is the best model to reach Him then how can we deny its importance. And the only litrary work we know of about the 'best model' are the book of Hadiths (which are way more than the 6 Shahiah ones) or triditions of Sunnah.

            So, in my opinion refusing to consider Hadiths & Sunnah all together will be a mistake on our part. But I agree with your 100% that Hadiths are not reported perfect, and Quran being the absolute perfect book should always be considered first.

            Disclaimer: These are my personal opinions and should not be taken as anything otherwise.
            I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
            - Robert McCloskey

            Comment


              #7
              armuhgal and ahmadjee: I fully agree with all your points but the problem is that: how do you now whether a Hadeeth is authentic or not: to find out you look at the Quran, and look what it says about this matter: but instead of doing that, y not directly look into the Quran.
              Of course I agree, the hadith gives examples of everyday life, which aren't stated in the Quran, but the fact that they aren't in the Quran means that they aren't compulsary!
              Furthermore, nowadays I have the feeling that people give more value to hadith than to the Quran itself
              Why so serious ... ?

              Comment


                #8
                ... that they aren't compulsary!
                I agree! They are not compulsary.
                I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
                - Robert McCloskey

                Comment


                  #9
                  nice to hear that, because nowadays most ppl think they are compulsary, and i doing that they neglect the real compulsary things (= things in Quran)
                  Why so serious ... ?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    ahmadjee,

                    The argument is lengthy, nevertheless the verse you quoted has a context, as do all the verses in the Qur'an but sectarians have a hobby of picking and chosing snippets from the Qur'an that suit their purpose.

                    The context of 33:21 is War.

                    Allah is warning the Prophet about those companions who would lose heart in war but would surround the Prophet when it came time to collect wordly goods as spoils of war.

                    [al-Ahzab 33:19] Being sparing of their help to you (believers). But when the fear cometh, then thou (Muhammad) seest them regarding thee with rolling eyes like one who fainteth unto death. Then, when the fear departeth, they scald you with sharp tongues in their greed for wealth (from the spoil). Such have not believed. Therefor Allah maketh their deeds fruitless. And that is easy for Allah.

                    [al-Ahzab 33:20] They hold that the clans have not retired (for good); and if the clans should advance (again), they would fain be in the desert with the wandering Arabs, asking for the news of you; and if they were among you, they would not give battle, save a little.

                    [al-Ahzab 33:21] Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much.

                    [al-Ahzab 33:22] And when the true believers saw the clans, they said: This is that which Allah and His messenger promised us. Allah and His messenger are true. It did but confirm them in their faith and resignation.

                    PakistaniAbroad: The Prophet's military leadership is the subject here and the followers were given his excellent example of standing steadfast against aggression only looking towards Allah for support and disregarding wordly gains.

                    It's not about how the Prophet went to the bathroom or brushed his teeth
                    JaddoN kaddya jaloos ghareeba tay shehr ich choatalee lug gayee

                    Comment


                      #11
                      PA,

                      the verse you quoted has a context, as do all the verses
                      That's another of the fundamental difference in the understanding of the teachings of Quran. I do believe that verses have a context but I also believe that Quran is not limited to one & only one meaning. A book as perfect as Quran, in every aspect is not a book of literal history or mere commandments.

                      Every meaning of the verses that do not contradict with other verses & give a new horizon & understanding to the teachings of Quran is acceptable in my opinion!

                      It's not about how the Prophet went to the bathroom or brushed his teeth
                      First, Hadiths & Sunnah is much more than the above! Second, I consider it a show of affection towards the Holy Prophet (saw) to brush my teeth the same way he did. Though it doesn't give me the right to say, it's the only way to do it, nor that its mandatory for everyone to follow. Advisable ... Yes!
                      I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
                      - Robert McCloskey

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Though it doesn't give me the right to say, it's the only way to do it, nor that its mandatory for everyone to follow. Advisable ... Yes!
                        Good.. this is where you and I agree.. keep all such fascinations to a personal level and do not advise others to follow something no one can even prove was a Prophet's way in the first place.
                        JaddoN kaddya jaloos ghareeba tay shehr ich choatalee lug gayee

                        Comment


                          #13
                          PA,

                          Interesting point! If I can't prove it was the Prophet's way, then how can you claim it was not?!

                          For instance, you ask your Dad about his Grand Father and he tells you a story about him. Would you believe him or not? If yes, why? If no, then why not?
                          I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
                          - Robert McCloskey

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by ahmadjee:
                            PA,

                            Interesting point! If I can't prove it was the Prophet's way, then how can you claim it was not?!

                            For instance, you ask your Dad about his Grand Father and he tells you a story about him. Would you believe him or not? If yes, why? If no, then why not?
                            ahmadjee, in logic that's called a burden of proof.

                            If after a couple of hundred years of the Prophet's death someone compiles a collection of sayings and attributes them all the way back to the Prophet the burden of proof is on them to prove every bit is right; not those who reject the compilations as heresay.

                            As for the father grandfather story, yeah I'd believe my father but by God I'll not thrust a pole down your's or someone elses throat or elsewhere to believe it, because it's all anecdotal evidence easily filed under heresay and that too from someone who's biased in the matter.

                            For you or anyone else to believe it I need to PROVE beyond doubt it's true.. If I fail to demonstrate that.. just pure love and reverance for my grandfather and a blind belief in my father's word aren't enough argument in a court of logic.
                            JaddoN kaddya jaloos ghareeba tay shehr ich choatalee lug gayee

                            Comment


                              #15
                              PA,

                              First, I am not shoving anything down your throat, so come out of your defensive mode.

                              Second, I give you the same logic you will give any non-Muslim who will question Quran being exactly the same word to word as revealed from God to the Holy Prophet (saw). After all, it wasn't compiled in a text format until the time of Hazrat Usman (ra). Until then it was stored on different pieces of leaves & stones but mostly in the hearts of the Sahabah. If the Sahabah can remember without a shadow of doubt the 114 chapters of Quran, without forgetting even a single alphabet ... then aren't they capable of remembering what color was Holy Prophet's hair?

                              Many context's of Quran were compiled similar to the compilation of Hadiths & Sunnah after many centuries. For instance when and where a specific verse was revealed.

                              My belief stands in the middle! I don't consider Hadiths to be a total fabrication like youself, but I don't believe all Hadiths to be absolute (and none Naozobillah to be abrogating Quran) like a few others believe.
                              I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
                              - Robert McCloskey

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