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A Brief History of the Science of Hadeeth

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    A Brief History of the Science of Hadeeth

    So here I would like to point out the benefit of this knowledge humbly called, 'mustalahahul hadeeth' (the science of hadeeth), and its effect upon the divinely-revealed, and historical sciences, and other than them from the various types of sciences which are established from the authentic texts, and which rely upon it.

    So verily the Muslims - from the first generation - had a great concern for memorization of the chains of narration in their Revelation from the Book and the Sunnah, the like of which no nation from before them had. So they memorized the Qur`aan, and they reported from the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) frequently, sentence by sentence, and word by word, and letter by letter. They preserved it in their chests, and they confirmed it upon pages of their writings, and they authored books about it with exhaustive detail. They also memorized much about their Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam), everyone of his statements or actions or conditions. He was a teacher from his Lord, and an explainer of His Revelation, and a commander of the establishment of His Religion. All of his (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) statements and actions and conditions are an explanation of the Qur`aan. He is the infallible Messenger and the good example. Allaah the Exalted says in describing him:

    "He does not speak from desire. Verily it is not but Revelation revealed to him." [Sooratun Najm 53:3-4]

    Allaah says:

    "And We revealed to you the Reminder for you to explain to the people what has been revealed to them, in the hopes that they may become thoughtful." [Sooratun Nahl 16:44]

    Allaah also says:

    "Indeed there is a good example for you in the Messenger of Allaah." [Sooratul Ahzaab 33:21]

    'Abdullaah Ibn 'Umar Ibnul 'Aas used to write everything he heard from the Messenger of Allaah, so the Quraysh forbade him from that and it was mentioned to the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam). So he said: "Write. So by the One in Whose Hand my soul is, nothing emanates from me except truth." [2] The Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) commanded the Muslims in the farewell pilgrimage to teach about him as a general command. So he said: "So let the one who is present teach the one who is absent. So it may be that the one who is being taught may be more heedful than him." [3] He also said: "So let the one who is present teach the one who is absent, for the one who taught may be more heedful than the one who heard directly." [4] So the Muslims understood that all this was obligatory upon them. They memorized everything about the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) and they acted upon that, and they went to great lengths to fulfill this trust, and they related hadeeths from him; either as well known (mashhoor), or with authentically established chains of narrations. According to the scholars, this is named an authentic hadeeth (hadeeth saheeh) or a good hadeeth (hadeeth hasan).

    The scholars of hadeeth took great care to make sure they collected everything that was narrated from him as a narration, even if it was not authentic. Then they strove to authenticate every hadeeth, and every letter narrated in a narration. So they criticized their conditions and their narrations and they took the most extreme care in quoting. So they would rule a hadeeth to be weak due to a little doubt in the biography of a narrator's character which affected his reliability according to the people of knowledge. So if they doubted in his truthfulness and they knew that he had lied about something in his statements, then they would discard his narrations and they would call his hadeeth fabricated (mawdhoo') or lies (makdhoob), even if he was not particularly known for lying in narrating hadeeths and even though they knew the liar could have been telling the truth.

    Likewise, they used to check the memorization of every narrator and read his narrations with other ones. So if they found many mistakes from him and his memorization was not good, they would declare his narrations weak, even if he had not been disparaged in his character or his truthfulness. It was feared that his memory might be unreliable in his narrations.

    Indeed they wrote and compiled the fundamental principles that were required for the acceptance of hadeeth, so these are the fundamental principles of this field of study. So they refined them with as close examination as humanly possible, so as to preserve their Religion. So the fundamental that they established became the soundest fundamentals for confirming historical accounts and the finest and the most delicate, even though it is despised - in these later times - by most of the people since they do not have adequate knowledge about it or clarification.

    So the scholars of many different sciences followed them in this. So the scholars of language and the scholars of literature and the scholars of history and other than these imitated them. So they made efforts to relate everything of their sciences with a chain of narrators, as you will see in the older books. So the foundations of this knowledge were used with the intention of authenticating narrations in anything that involved narrating. So this knowledge is the basis for any narration-based science.

    Along with this however, there were some people who innovated a vile innovation. They alleged that hadeeths could not be used as proofs because, in some conventions, it was called 'uncertain affirmation' (dhanniyyatuth thuboot). This means that it was not affirmed with concurrency (tawaatur) requiring absoluteness in narrations. So they concluded that such narrations do not provide conclusive knowledge. This group did not realize that the term 'definitive knowledge' was just a convention among some scholars to be applied to some sciences only. In the case of hadeeth however, the most authentic reports were declared authentic by any scholar who had studied hadeeth, even if it was not concurrent (mutawaatir). If they were to reject every non-recurrent narration, then they should first eliminate every science that relies upon narration; including history. However, at that time, the group that went with such a bad opinion was small, overwhelmed, and they did not have any influence upon Islaamic sciences.

    However in this century, there has appeared a new group who alleged the same old allegations and more. They claim that all hadeeths are unauthentic and baseless, so it is not allowed to use them as proofs in matters of the Religion. Some even went to the point of rejecting all the rules and fundamental set for hadeeth checking; and started authenticating hadeeths according to desires and feelings, without any particular rule or proof. For these people, there is no cure except if they learn Islaamic knowledge and have respect for it, and Allaah guides whomever He wills.

    So as for the attack upon authentic hadeeths, and the doubt in their attribution to the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam), then this is nothing less than an announcement of war against the Muslims for those who do it despite knowledge. It is also due to ignorance and lack of study for those who blindly follow the first group. So the meaning of this doubt and attack is that all the reliable narrators from amongst the Salafus-Saalih were untrustworthy liars. It necessitates accusing them of either telling lies and misleading the people, or of ignorance and stupidity. Indeed Allaah rescued them from these things, and they knew the reality of the statement of the Messenger of Allaah: "Whoever lies upon me deliberately, then let him take his seat in the Fire." [5] He also said: "Whoever relates a hadeeth from me and thinks that it is a lie, then he is one of the liars." [6]

    So the one who accuses them of lying has passed a judgement which is free of any good quality and which will cause him to dwell in the Fire. This is because lying is from the greatest of major sins, then it is from the most evil of qualities and the worst of them. No nation shall succeed if lying is common among its people, even if it is in small matters. So what about telling lies in the Religion and about the best of the Messengers (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam)? Indeed the people of the first generation of Muslims - and in the first three generations - were the best of the people and the highest in character and they were the most fearful of Allaah. So due to that, Allaah aided them and gave them victory and opened many counties to them and they came to rule many nations in a few years. This was because of their Religion and beautiful character before it was due to their sword and spear.


    [1] This is taken from 'al-Baa'ithul Hatheeth Sharh Ikhtisaar 'Uloomul Hadeeth' - shaykh Ahmad Shaakir's commentary on 'Ikhtisaar 'Uloomul Hadeeth' by al-Haafidh Ibn Katheer, (p. 13-16)

    [2] Related by Ahmad in his Musnad (no. 6510)(2/162) with an authentic chain of narrators. It is also related by Abu Daawood and al-Haakim and other than them in meaning.

    [3] Related in Fathul Baaree (1/46) and others.

    [4] See Fathul Baaree (3/459).

    [5] Shaykh al-Albaanee has declared it to be an authentic concurrent hadeeth, he records 63 different routes for it. See: Mukhtasar Saheeh Muslim (no. 1861-1862), Rawdhun Nadheer (no. 707), and Saheehul Jaami' (no. 6519).

    [6] Related by Abu Dardaa', reported by Ahmad, Muslim, and Ibn Maajah. Shaykh al-Albaanee has declared it authentic in Saheehul Jaami' (no. 6199), and from Samoorah and Mugheerah (no. 1863), also see ad-Da'eefah (1/12).

    "I put my trust in Allah, my Lord and your Lord! There is not a moving creature, but He has a grasp of its forelock. Verily, my Lord is on the straight path. (The truth)"

    "...Indeed my prayer, my sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allaah, the Lord of the worlds" (6:162)

    Truly in-genious. I find that oral learning and understanding is a higher form compared to modern day techniques used in high schools and universities. What do u think?


      Oh yes mushi and it has been proven that oral transmission lose the actual content within the first few repetition.. maybe that's why the method is more commonly referred to as Chinese Whispers..

      If oral transmissions were that reliable the Qur'an wouldn't stress on writing down your matters. Also the Prophet wouldn't have appointed scribes to write the Qur'an. he would just have had them learn it by heart only.
      JaddoN kaddya jaloos ghareeba tay shehr ich choatalee lug gayee


        I came across this article, and I hope it helps. (This only a part of the article, you may want to refer to the link to read it in its entirety)


        Introduction to Hadeeth Methodology

        A Prophetic hadeeth is a narration from or about the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings upon him), and it is through the ahadeeth (plural of hadeeth) that Muslims know about the Prophet’s way of life – the Sunnah. Such knowledge is a necessary prerequisite for fulfilling the Muslim’s most basic religious requirements, and the Prophet (p.b.u.h) naturally made it a point to spread this knowledge about himself during his lifetime.

        The Prophet (p.b.u.h) sought to teach his Companions through different ways such as repetition, questioning, dictation, and practical demonstration. After teaching them he would listen to what they had learnt. Along with his Companions, deputations from outside were educated in both the Qur’an and the Sunnah. The Prophet (p.b.u.h.) would question them as well to see what they had learnt (Azami 9). Furthermore, the letters sent by the Prophet (p.b.u.h.), some of which were quite lengthy and dealt with a wide range of legal matters, also constituted a means of teaching his Sunnah. Apparently there must have been a great deal of writing in general as it is said that he had at least forty-five scribes at one time or another (Azami 10). He also would dictate to different companions such as ‘Ali b. Abu Talib, and he is known to have sent copies of his sermons to certain people. Last but not least was the practical example he lay for his followers with his clear instructions to do as he does (i.e., "Pray as you see me praying" [Bukhari, Vol. 1, Book 11, No. 604] and "Learn from me the rituals of pilgrimage" [Sahih Muslim, Book on Hajj, No. 310]). He was known to advise a questioner to stay with him and learn by observing him (Azami 10).

        Other measures were taken by the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) to spread knowledge of his Sunnah, such as the establishment of what may be regarded as schools. It is said that these were established in Madinah soon after his arrival, and that he would send teachers to various places outside of the city. He emphasized to his Companions to pass on knowledge about him, and among his sayings are "Pass on knowledge from me even if it is only one verse" (Azami 10). In his famous farewell sermon he is reported to have said, "Those who are present (here) should convey the message to those who are absent." [Bukhari, Vol. 2, Book 26, No. 795] Consequently it was a common practice among his Companions to inform those who were absent about the Prophet’s sayings and actions. Additionally,the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) would specifically instruct delegations to teach their people what they had learnt upon their return. He encouraged all this activity by informing of the great rewards for teaching and learning, as well as the possible punishment for refusing to do so (Azami 12).

        On the part of the Prophet’s Companions, it should be remembered how people take care to watch and imitate the actions and sayings of one they love and admire. It is well known the extent of love the Prophet’s Companions had for him and that many would unhesitatingly die to protect him. Given this and their excellent memories, as well as the various methods the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) himself employed to teach his Sunnah, it would seem safe to assume that they did indeed know his Sunnah. In fact, reports show that they not only tried to learn it, but they tried to preserve it through various means such as memorization and recording. There are various examples of the Companions of the Prophet memorizing together and cultivating what they had just learned from the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) (Azami 13). Many of them are known to have recorded the ahadeeth, and following the Prophet’s instruction, they would emulate him based on what they had learned. After the Prophet’s death, there are several reports showing that they continued in their efforts to memorize, practice, and preserve what they had learned from him. Furthermore, there are reports showing Companions such as ‘Ali b. Abu Talib, Ibn Mas’ud, and Abu Sa’id al-Khudri advising the people who came after them (the Successors) to memorize the ahadeeth, which they would do either individually or collectively in groups (Azami 15).

        After the Prophet’s death, Islam spread beyond Arabia to distant lands. As the Companions of the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) were the ones who pioneered the expansion, it follows that the knowledge of ahadeeth that they had went with them, and that not all of it remained in Madinah. Therefore, it is possible that a certain Sunnah was known to particular Companions who had left to settle in some distant land. As was previously mentioned, the Companions saw to it that those who came after them, the Successors, continued in the learning and preservation of ahadeeth so that the knowledge would not be lost. However, now that the knowledge of the Sunnah was not concentrated in one place but had spread to different parts of the Muslim world, the likelihood of making errors arose, and consequently techniques for criticism had to be developed, especially after the first fitnah (Azami 49). Additionally, with the spread of the Sunnah, new techniques had to be developed for learning ahadeeth.

        Though all the techniques were important in preserving the ahadeeth, the practice of a teacher reading to their students was a particularly significant technique that was developed very early. This included reading by the teacher from the student’s book, which was either a complete or partial copy of the teacher’s book (Azami 17). Students and scholars would test their teacher’s knowledge by inserting ahadeeth throughout the book before giving it to their teacher for reading. Teachers who didn’t recognize the additions were "denounced and declared untrustworthy" (Azami 17). Additionally, it is said that from the beginning of the second century, the technique of reading by the students to their teachers became the most common practice (Azami 19). This was done in the presence of other students who would then compare with what they had in their books or listen carefully. In copying, it is said that they would usually make a circular mark after every hadeeth, and that once the hadeeth had been read to the teacher a mark would be made in the circle or elsewhere to indicate so. Also, every additional time a hadeeth was read to the teacher another mark would be made indicating so, and at times scholars would read the same book many times. The reason probably was to counter-act the challenges presented by the Arabic script—the reporter had to hear a particular hadeeth from the person from whom he is transmitting, and transmit exactly what he heard (thus the grading of reporters became necessary to know who did this best) (Burton 110-111). Furthermore, from a very early time, the necessity of reviewing copies became evident, and it is reported that teachers would help their students in this task to eliminate copying mistakes. It is important to know that one who did not follow the proper methods in teaching or compiling his own book could be accused of stealing hadith, even if the material was authentic. Hence it was critical that the ahadeeth were obtained properly. There are several other techniques, but for the purpose of this paper it is important to know that the scholars of hadeeth used special terms in the transmission of a hadeeth, depending upon the technique employed in teaching it. Also worth pointing out is that these special terms such as "haddathana," "akhbarana," and "’an," are often mistaken to mean that the transmission was strictly oral, although it has been shown that this was not the case.

        The Classification of Hadeeth

        The people involved in the transmission of a hadeeth constitute its isnad. The isnad informs us about the hadeeth’s source, and this information later became an essential part of the hadeeth (Azami 31). ‘Abdullah b. Al-Mubarak, one of the teachers of al-Bukhari, is reported to have said, "The isnad is part of the religion: had it not been for the isnad, whoever wished to would have said whatever he liked" (Hasan 11). There is some indication that the isnad was used before the first fitnah, though it was not until the end of the first century of the Hijrah that it was fully developed (Azami 33). (However, John Burton in his An Introduction to the Hadith says that the isnad did not yet exist in the first century) The other part of the hadeeth that actually contains the specific saying or action of the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) is its matn or text.

        For the classification of hadeeth, there are several broad categories, of which only seven will be very briefly discussed here. The seven categories are classifications according to 1) the reference to a particular authority, 2) the links in the isnad, 3) the number of reporters involved in each stage of the isnad, 4) the technique used in reporting the hadeeth, 5) the nature of the isnad and matn, 6) a hidden defect found in the hadeeth’s isnad or matn, and 7) the reliability and memory of the reporters (Hasan 14-16).

        The first category, classification according to the reference to a particular authority, pertains to whether it goes back to the Prophet (p.b.u.h.), a Companion, or a Successor. A marfu’ or "elevated" narration is one that back to the Prophet (p.b.u.h.), and this is regarded as the best grade (Burton 112). A mawqoof or "stopped" narration is one that goes back to a Companion, while a maqtu’ or "severed" narration is one that goes back to a Successor. This classification is significant in that it differentiates between the Prophet’s sayings and actions and that of a Companion or Successor.

        The second category, classification according to the links in the isnad, makes several different distinctions. The musnad or "supported" hadeeth is the best out of the group as it contains no break in the chain of authorities reporting the hadeeth back to the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) (Burton 111). The mursal or "unattached" hadeeth is one that contains a gap of one generation (according to both Azami and Hasan it is a hadeeth reported by a Successor who drops the Companion from whom he learned it in the isnad). The munqati’ or "broken" hadeeth is one which is missing a link closer to the traditionalist reporting it (i.e., before the Successor). This applies even if there appears to be no break in the chain, if it is known that one of the reporters could not have heard ahadeeth from the immediate authority given in the isnad, even if they are contemporaries. The term munqati’ also is used by some scholars to refer to a hadeeth in which a reporter does not name his authority and instead says, "a man narrated to me…" (Hasan 22). A hadeeth is mu’dal or "perplexing" if more than one consecutive reporter is missing in the isnad. If the isnad is dropped altogether and the reporter directly quotes the Prophet (p.b.u.h.), then the hadeeth is considered mu’allaq or "hanging" (Hassan 22).

        Within the third category, ahadeeth are classified according to how many reporters are in each stage of the isnad, i.e. in each generation of reporters. The two main classifications are mutawatir ("consecutive") and ahad ("single"), though ahad is further divided into many subdivisions, among them ghareeb ("scarce" or "strange"), ‘azeez ("rare" or "strong"), and mashhoor ("famous"). A mutawatir hadeeth is one that is reported by a large number of people whose agreement upon a lie is not reasonably possible and in which the possibility of coincidence is negligible. The minimum number of required reporters differs among the scholars of hadeeth, and ranges from four to several hundred (Azami 43). The hadeeth may be mutawatir in either meaning or words, the former being the more common one. Al-Ghazali stipulated that the hadeeth must be mutawatir in the beginning, middle, and last stages of its isnad (Hasan 30). A hadeeth that is ahad is one whose number of reporters does not come near to that required for a mutawatir hadeeth. A hadeeth is classified as ghareeb if at any stage (or every stage) in the isnad there is only one person reporting it. A hadeeth is classified as ‘azeez if at every stage in the isnad there are at least two people reporting it. If at least three people report a hadeeth in every stage of its isnad, then it is classified as mashhoor, although the term is also applied to those ahadeeth which start out as ghareeb or ‘azeez but then end up with a larger number of reporters (Hasan 32).

        In the fourth category, ahadeeth are classified according to manner in which they are reported. As was mentioned earlier, there is a corresponding special term to denote a particular mode of learning or transmission when a student or scholar learned a hadeeth. "Haddathana," "akhbarana," and "sami’tu" all indicate that the reporter personally heard the hadeeth from his own sheikh. "’An" and "qaala" are more vague and can signify either hearing from the sheikh in person or through someone else. Actually, "’an" is very inferior and can signify learning the hadeeth through any one of various modes of transmission (Azami 22). A hadeeth can be labeled as weak due to the uncertainty caused by using the latter two terms, which respectively translate into "on the authority of" and "he said" (Hasan 33). One who practices tadlees, "concealing", reports from his sheikh that which he did not hear from him, or reports from a contemporary whom he never met. This violates the principle that a hadeeth must be heard first-hand in order to be transmitted (Burton 112). Another type of tadlees, which is considered the worst among them, is when a reliable scholar reports from a weak authority who is in turn reporting from a reliable scholar. The person who is reporting this isnad may show that he heard it from his sheikh, but then omits the weak authority and simply uses the term "’an" to link his sheikh with the next trustworthy one in the isnad (Hasan 34).

        If throughout the isnad all the reporters (including the Prophet- p.b.u.h.) use the same mode of transmission, repeat an additional statement or remark, or act in a particular way while narrating the hadeeth, then it is called musalsal ("uniformly-linked"). This type of knowledge is useful for discounting the possibility of tadlees in a particular hadeeth (Hassan 35).

        According to the fifth category, a hadeeth can also be classified with respect to the nature of its text and isnad. According to Al-Shafi’I, if a hadeeth reported by a trustworthy person goes against the narration of someone more reliable than him, then the hadeeth is shadhdh or "irregular". According to Ibn Hajar, if a narration by a weak reporter contradicts an authentic hadeeth, then that hadeeth is classified as munkar ("denounced"), although some scholars would classify any hadeeth of a weak reporter as munkar. A hadeeth could also be classified as munkar if its text contradicts general sayings of the Prophet (p.b.u.h.). If a hadeeth reported by a reliable person contains some additional information not narrated by other authentic sources, the addition is accepted so long as it doesn’t contradict them, and the addition is known as ziyadatu thiqah ("an addition by one trustworthy"). However, if a reporter adds something to the hadeeth being narrated, then the hadeeth is classified as mudraj or "interpolated". If this occurs in a hadeeth, then it is usually in its text and often for the purpose of explaining a difficult word. In a few examples this occurs in the isnad—a reporter takes a part of one isnad and adds it to another isnad. A reporter found in the habit of intentional idraj or interpolation is generally considered a liar, although scholars are more lenient with those reporters who may do it to explain a difficult word (Hasan 37-39).

        In the sixth category, ahadeeth that contain hidden defects in their isnad or text are classified as ma’lool or mu’allal ("defective"). This could be due to such things as classifying a hadeeth as musnad when it is actually mursal or attributing a hadeeth to a particular Companion when it really comes from another one. In order to detect such defects, all the isnads of a hadeeth have to be collected and examined. For example, "Some scholars wrote works on which Successors heard ahadeeth from which Companions. From this information is it known that Al-Hasan Al-Basri did not meet ‘Ali, although there is a slight chance that he may have seen him during his childhood in Madinah. This is significant as many Sufi traditions are said to go back to Al-Hasan Al-Basri who is said to have reported directly from ‘Ali." (Hasan 42-43)

        There can also be uncertainty about the isnad or text, in which case the hadeeth is classified as mudtarib ("shaky"). This occurs if reporters disagree about some points in the isnad or text in such a way that no opinion prevails. A hadeeth may be classified as maqloob ("changed" or "reversed") if in the isnad a name was reversed (i.e., Ka’b b. Murra versus Murra b. Ka’b) or if the order of a sentence in the text is reversed (Azami 66). This also applies to those ahadeeth whose text has been given a different isnad or vice versa, or those in which a reporter’s name was replaced with another (Hasan 41-42).

        The seventh and last category to be discussed here is classification according to the quality of the reporters, upon which the final verdict on a hadeeth critically depends. Ahadeeth reported by those known to be ‘adil, hafiz, thabit, and thiqa are the highest ranked ahadeeth and are classified as saheeh or "sound." For someone to be considered ‘adil, he had to be a very pious Muslim, honest and truthful in all of his dealings. Through careful comparison, verbal agreement found in the text of a hadeeth among various transmitters indicated who was the most accurate (thabit), the most reliable (thiqa), and who had the best memory (hafiz). If any scholar falls less than this ideal in one or more categories, but he is not criticized, then the ahadeeth reported by him are judged to be less sound, or hasan ("fair"). If a reporter was known to have a weak memory or make mistakes due to carelessness, then his ahadeeth are judged as da’eef ("weak") (Burton 110-111).

        Of course, there are other factors which play into the final verdict on a hadeeth, and in the words of Ibn Al-Salah, "A saheeh hadeeth is the one which has a continuous isnad, made up of reporters of trustworthy memory from similar authorities, and which is found to be free from any irregularities (i.e. in the text) or defects (i.e., in the isnad)." According to Al-Tirmidhi a hasan hadeeth is "A hadeeth which is not shadhdh, nor contains a disparaged reporter in its isnad, and which is reported through more than one route of narration" (Hasan 44-46). A hadeeth that doesn’t reach the requirements for a hasan hadeeth is classified as da’eef, and often this is due to discontinuity in the isnad. It can also be classified as da’eef if one of the reporters does not have a good reputation for whatever reason, be it because of his making many mistakes or being dishonest. If the defects are many and severe, then the hadeeth is closer to being classified as mawdu’ or fabricated. According to Al-Dhahabi the mawdu’ hadeeth is the one whose text goes against established norms of the Prophet’s sayings or whose isnad contains a liar. A hadeeth can also be established as mawdu’ due to "external evidence related to a discrepancy found in the dates or times of a particular incident" (Hasan 49).

        In conclusion, the aforementioned classifications constitute only a fraction of the total number of classifications that exist. The studies in hadeeth are very complex, and it seems that the scholars thought of every imaginable angle from which to analyze ahadeeth. All this was for the purpose of distinguishing between different types of narrations, especially for distinguishing the authentic from the inauthentic.


          Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:
          If oral transmissions were that reliable the Qur'an wouldn't stress on writing down your matters. Also the Prophet wouldn't have appointed scribes to write the Qur'an. he would just have had them learn it by heart only.
          PakistaniAbroad: Do you seriously think that the Qur'an was preserved only because it was written down ??

          Well, guess what, EVEN the BIBLE was written down, but INSPITE of that, we DON'T have it in its ORIGINAL form.

          Forget the past, even in the last few decades or centuries, [/b] we have witnessed different versions of the Bible being prepared. Even, now in the 21st Century , people are not satisfied with the Bible, but want to prepare NEWER VERSIONS. Recently, I read an article on making the Bible unisex.

          Or, what have you got to say about the Hindu scriptures ? EVEN they were in written form, but they just kept getting altered .

          Ibrahim , could you please provide some examples ? I do remember you mentioning something regarding it.

          So, PakistaniAbroad (and other rejectors of Hadeeth), do you then know WHY the Qur'an was preserved in its original form and could not be altered? Let me tell you:

          "Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur'ân) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption) " (Holy Qur'an : 15: 09)

          So, THIS is the REASON why the Qur'an could NOT be corrupted or altered and why it was PRESERVED in its ORIGINAL form.

          Or else, just imagine the circumstances. You know how the Muslim societies were so heavily influenced by the teachings of the Qur'an (especially in the past), and each word of the Holy Qur'an carried enormous weight and influence. Considering the importance of the Qur'an, it is very likely that some of the OPPORTUNISTS (like the rulers, scholars, etc ) could have tried to change or alter the Qur'an for their OWN purposes. But did it happen???

          Also, remember that many Muslim societies have been in remote and isolated areas of the World. There, the chances of corruption were even greater and indeed, Had it not been for the Promise of Allah (SWT), it'd have been easier for the Qur'an to have been altered or changed by the Imams or the Rulers in those areas.

          But Who protected the Qur'an inspite of all this ?

          Even, some sects like the Ismailies , who usually do not concern themselves much with the Qur'an or guard each commandment of the Qur'an, HAVE THE SAME QUR'AN !!! . That is INSPITE of the fact that the Qur'an does NOT play such a significant role in their practises.

          Is this ANYTHING BUT a MIRACLE ?


            Yeah I guess you're right. What I meant to say was the greater emphasis on learning by heart etc but as the brilliant article above points out that it was much more involved. Thanks guys.

            Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:
            Oh yes mushi and it has been proven that oral transmission lose the actual content within the first few repetition.. maybe that's why the method is more commonly referred to as Chinese Whispers..

            If oral transmissions were that reliable the Qur'an wouldn't stress on writing down your matters. Also the Prophet wouldn't have appointed scribes to write the Qur'an. he would just have had them learn it by heart only.


              Khoon-e-Shahid, let's remain realisitc.. being a Muslim doesn't mean going overboard and abandoning realism.

              Show me a Hafiz-e-Qur'an who remembered the Qur'an without READING it. Are there any who just listen to a recitation from a teacher and then remember it?? or the teacher himself.. I've been behind many taraveehs where the Maulana forgot left right and center and prompting or at the end of a rakat consultation with the written Qur'an was the ONLY way to bring back what they forgot.

              Face the facts. Qur'an was written down. The Prophets appointed Scribes for it.

              Hadith was NOT written down because there was no such parallel teaching. The Prophet didn't have his own agenda. He was only delivering The Message.. hence no need to write down or remember what he said.

              However later on it makes for a lucrative loophole for enemies of Islam to compile garbage and heresay and append "The Prophet Said" at the beginning to trap gullible Muslims who didn't know better and misguide them to the same Judaeo-Christian-Polytheist-Pagan teachings which Qur'an came to abolish.

              Fabricators .... 1
              Muslims ....... 0
              JaddoN kaddya jaloos ghareeba tay shehr ich choatalee lug gayee



                Khoon-e-Shaheed is correct in his statement confirming the Qur'aan.

                Whether or not the Qur'aan was written or memorised, would not have made the slightest bit of difference in it's protection:

                015.009 We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

                The Bible, Torah and Psalms were all also written and memorised at some time or another, but have been changed! Why?

                Whether someone accepts A'Hadeeth or not is an individual choice, but must be able to justify the denial.

                The Qur'aan is the Primary source and the A'Hadeeth is the secondary source.

                However, for those who do not accept A'Hadeeth and believe that this commodoty was a misleading set up (this view is usually held by the Submitters), then I ask only one question:

                How did you learn to perform Salaat (Qiyaam, Rukuu, Sajood etc) and how many units to offer. Please do not submit an algebra equation which Rasheed Khilafa invented being a Numerologist.

                Just give me a straight simple answer, because the Qur'aan orders Believers to Worship Allah at over 73 different times in the Qur'aan, but not once does it state the Actions and Units of Salaat!

                And Salaat is THE single most important Duty for Belivers after Tawheed:

                051.056 I have only created Jinns and men, that they may Worship Me.

                I will openly admit to using the A'Hadeeth for this purpose.

                What about you???


                  I dont think he's going to answer that one. People on this board have repeatedly asked about this so that all of us can benefit from this information, but PakistaniAbroad hasn't explained yet.


                    Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:

                    Show me a Hafiz-e-Qur'an who remembered the Qur'an without READING it. Are there any who just listen to a recitation from a teacher and then remember it?? or the teacher himself..
                    Ive read that famous persian poet, Hafiz memorised the Quran, while hearing his father reciting it.


                      Originally posted by sholay:
                      015.009 We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
                      Good. Can you show me just ONE verse in which Allah promises to 'guard' the so called Hadith??

                      The Bible, Torah and Psalms were all also written and memorised at some time or another, but have been changed! Why?
                      Baloney!! They were NOT written down. They were compiled like the Hadith much later from verbal accounts. Bible isn't even the revealed word.. it's in third person as someone telling a story while witnessing it.. It's orgainzed religion.. not divine scripture.

                      The Qur'aan is the Primary source and the A'Hadeeth is the secondary source.
                      who made that rule up??

                      [quote]How did you learn to perform Salaat (Qiyaam, Rukuu, Sajood etc) and how many units to offer. Please do not submit an algebra equation which Rasheed Khilafa invented being a Numerologist.[/qoute]

                      I disagree with Khalifa because he has an apologetic view on this subject.

                      the Qur'aan orders Believers to Worship Allah at over 73 different times in the Qur'aan, but not once does it state the Actions and Units of Salaat!
                      Why is this always the last weapon in the arsenal for hadith believers? Would you seriously disregard fabrications if I were to give you an alternate source for Salat procedures?

                      Or would you accept ANY other compilation of heresay just because it elaborated on some topic you feel wasn't discussed in detail in the Qur'an?

                      It's very very important you ask yourself this question.
                      JaddoN kaddya jaloos ghareeba tay shehr ich choatalee lug gayee


                        so pkaistaniabroad how do u perform salat when u dont believe in hadith??


                          I dont think he's going to answer that one. People on this board have repeatedly asked about this so that all of us can benefit from this information, but PakistaniAbroad hasn't explained yet.
                          Ace my friend I think I have answered it, but the answer wasn't to your liking which is why you continue the same line of questioning.

                          I only invite you to ponder the whole scneario.. think outside the box.. do not be dragged down by specifics. Consider the fact that your current actions are shaped around compilations you take to be truthful. How ironic that you now challenge the Qur'an and claim it's words need to be elaborated by Hadith?

                          Take this as an example.. maybe you will grasp the essence of the discussion.

                          Your Boss gives you a manual of some hundred odd pages and tell you that it has EVERYTHING you need for salvation and that it's explained in detail. You know your Boss is not someone who makes errors, or forgets.

                          In the manual your Boss reminds you to 'praise' Him.

                          Now hundreds of years later other small Guides and Help Books become available which claim to 'explain' the manual.

                          Would you stop reading and following the manual and start following these guides? Your Boss never told you there will be Guides and Help Books published later on to explain His manual. He told you it was COMPLETE.

                          Wouldn't you wonder that if you were given the manual in such detail, which claims it has EVERYTHING in it for your salvation there is a reason it gave as much time to each topic as it already did. Maybe that's all that was required of you.. Nothing more. Nothing less.

                          Think about it.
                          JaddoN kaddya jaloos ghareeba tay shehr ich choatalee lug gayee


                            Ive read that famous persian poet, Hafiz memorised the Quran, while hearing his father reciting it.
                            That wasn't the argument. The example makes sense if his father and his grandfather and all others through generations had learnt the Qur'an without having to consult a written document.

                            so pkaistaniabroad how do u perform salat when u dont believe in hadith??
                            you haven't answered my question.

                            1. Would you reject Hadith if I told you the way to peform Salat without it?

                            2. Would you accept any other compilaiton that has the way to perform Salat in it??
                            JaddoN kaddya jaloos ghareeba tay shehr ich choatalee lug gayee


                              I follow the prophet(PBUH) way to perform salat so no i wouldnt accept anyother.

                              No, Sahih hadith are accepted.

                              [This message has been edited by reza khan (edited April 19, 2002).]