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    Why do some of us . . .

    .. Consider ourselves important enough to pass judgement on others and their beliefs? Debating and discussing religious beliefs is a separate issue- but flat out using the word kafir? Thats trying to play God.

    Fellow brothers and sisters,
    What exactly is our 'haysiyat' when we look at the vastness of the universe? A grain of sand, smaller perhaps? Why do we consider ourselves important enough to judge others? or more importantly- judge a large group of people? We- humans do not individually have the right to even punish another person because 'saza' and 'jazaa' is in the hands of Allah. Who are we to judge and punish? So- a 'qazii' is appointed because of his 'logic' and he is given a responsibility.

    Similary- the duty of calling a kafir a kafir is not everybodys. May God forgive our sins- but are we really in a position to say something this strong? Calling a fork a fork? Is it really comparable? What nonsense logic!

    Lets keep in mind- to make a difference to the world- we should make a difference to ourselves so that people might learn by example. Do I really need to quote the character of Rasool-ul-Allah(SAW)? The spread of Islam was not a battle fought and won, it was the character of the muslims of the time which won the hearts.

    Islam is nothing if by force or name calling. Lets confirm our own 'jannah' before worrying about the others'. If you spread islam the wrong way, it'll distort the image of Islam more than the 'innovators' have done. Islam should show from each and every action of yours and not just your mouth!

    Jazaka'llah khair to all those who make an effort, May Allah(SWT) give us all 'hidayah', and He knows best.

    -Ace

    #2
    thanks a lot


    I have never use this word "kafir", but you know kafir is not a bad word, neither is it insulting...
    .
    it just means people who deny, so people in this fourm are probably just distingushing between muslims and non muslims.

    word kafir has been used in urdu poetry to describe a loved one who denies to love.
    for example

    martay martay na kaza yad aee
    asi kafir ki ada yad aiee
    tum ko alfat na vafa yad aee
    yad aee to jafa yad aee
    hijar ki rat guzar hi jati
    kion teri zulf rsa yad aee
    chara gur zehar munga day zara
    lay mujhay apni dva yad aee

    or another example

    asi kafir ko dakh ker jeetay hain,
    jis kafir per dum niklay


    purpose of giving you these examples is just that "kafir" is not an insulting word..it's just a word....

    Comment


      #3

      049.011 O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh at others: It may be that the (latter are better than the (former): Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong.

      008.002 For, Believers are those who, when Allah is mentioned, feel a tremor in their hearts, and when they hear His signs rehearsed, find their faith strengthened, and put (all) their trust in their Lord;

      008.003 Who establish regular prayers and spend (freely) out of the gifts We have given them for sustenance:

      064.002 It is He Who has created you; and of you are some that are Unbelievers, and some that are Believers: and Allah sees well all that ye do.

      022.017 Those who believe (in the Quran), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians, Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- Allah will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for Allah is witness of all things.

      Kafir/ Kafiroon/ Kufar all mean Unbeliever.

      There is no harm in calling a Non Believer the above as it is not a derogatory word. Similarily, Non Believer means Kafir and Kafir means Non Believer. The only people the word upsets are those that do not understand the Arabic language.

      Comment


        #4
        what if someone calls you infidel how do you feel

        One entry found for infidel.


        Main Entry: infidel
        Pronunciation: 'in-f&-d&l, -f&-"del
        Function: noun
        Etymology: Middle English infidele, from Middle French, from Late Latin infidelis unbelieving, from Latin, unfaithful, from in- + fidelis faithful -- more at FIDELITY
        Date: 15th century
        1 : one who is not a Christian or who opposes Christianity
        2 a : an unbeliever with respect to a particular religion b : one who acknowledges no religious belief
        3 : a disbeliever in something specified or understood

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by secret_obsession:

          I have never use this word "kafir", but you know kafir is not a bad word, neither is it insulting.....
          Not any more. The word is presently considered to be a racially abusive and offensive term. In South Africa, its use is actionable.
          There are several other such words. e.g. Wog - essentially stands for Western Oriental Gentleman. It is an offensive term of British origin, and is used generally for non-whites.


          [This message has been edited by aakhir kyon? (edited March 29, 2002).]

          Comment


            #6
            I think I was referring to calling fellow muslims a non muslim. Who's talking about it being a derogatory term? But if someone called me a non-believer(read: kafir) I would be offended- I'm sure you guys would be too- who're putting up excuses to calling others kafir.

            I was mostly referring to a post which called shia's kafir- and I wanted to know who gave the authority to that individual to call a whole community non-muslim?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Ace:
              I think I was referring to calling fellow muslims a non muslim. .... I was mostly referring to a post which called shia's kafir- and I wanted to know who gave the authority to that individual to call a whole community non-muslim?
              Can you refer to the chain, please?


              ------------------
              Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.

              Comment


                #8
                Its a locked thread- Locked yesterday I think and the last reply was by Shah Jahan. I'll look it up.

                Point in question though is: Are we really authoratitive enough to call someone(or a community) a non-muslim when they regard themselves as muslim? Why not let Allah(SWT) judge?

                [This message has been edited by Ace (edited March 29, 2002).]

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Ace:
                  Consider ourselves important enough to pass judgement on others and their beliefs?
                  Debating and discussing religious beliefs is a separate issue- but flat out using the word kafir? Thats trying to play God.

                  Calling each other between muslims would be playing God; its agreed name calling right off the bat is an entirely wrong approach BUT guidelines are set for each and everyone of us to adhere to, problem is that some people get carried away in religious fanaticism which ends up in segregation which is most likely the case of all the sects

                  Similary- the duty of calling a kafir a kafir is not everybodys.
                  I read once somewhere that it is even a hypocrites duty to correct a wrong doer simply because maybe those words of wisdom might affect the person straying

                  May God forgive our sins- but are we really in a position to say something this strong?
                  Its really just categorizing. Nothing strong in my opinion.

                  Islam is nothing if by force or name calling. Lets confirm our own 'jannah' before worrying about the others'.
                  We should also remember that the muslim ummah is a whole body. When one part hurts the other feels it too; I can't simply neglect others doing something wrong without warning them

                  Jazaka'llah khair to all those who make an effort, May Allah(SWT) give us all 'hidayah', and He knows best.

                  Ameen
                  ------------------
                  Jitna Diya Sarkar Nay Mujko, Itni Meri Auqat Nahi, Yeh Saab Tumhara Karam Hai Aqa, Mujh Mein Aisi Koi Baat Nahin.


                  Pray OR v tt T FRgv M, Ak Y T FRgv M Ol Hope To Th Hv.
                  Rabul MashriqaiN wal MaghribaiN

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Ace:


                    I was mostly referring to a post which called shia's kafir- and I wanted to know who gave the authority to that individual to call a whole community non-muslim?
                    If you are referring to me, then, PLEASE, find my post where I've said that Shias are Kafirs.

                    I've been careful with my words, if you'll notice. I may have drawn some comparisons, but that doesn't mean I've called them Kafirs.

                    There are some decent Shias who love the Sahaaba and Our Mother, Hadhrat 'Aisha (R) - why would I want to heap them all in the same category?

                    Btw, According to Imam Abu Hanifa (Rah.), Anyone who believes that they (the Rafidi Shias) are not Kafirs, has himself committed Kufr. !!!

                    There, you have the opinion of one of the greatest scholars of Islam we've ever had in our history.



                    [This message has been edited by Indian_Muslim (edited April 01, 2002).]

                    Comment


                      #11
                      CocoNut, I fear that all this name calling results in creating more difference amongst the sects when the initial differences aren't all that much. And calling someone a kafir is definitely not categorizing. Humans can never be categorized, all of us are way too complex to be packed into a neatly labeled jar.

                      Indian_Muslim, Source please? And by the way- Islam means what? Peace? And by declaring someone a kafir- we are doing what? Creating peace? Think about what you say brother for its wrong to be arrogant, and its wrong to declare people with different beliefs kafir (and yes I am talking about your categorizing)

                      My question is simple: cant we live WITHOUT this whole categorizing business? for all it does is spread hatred, which accomplishes nothing! Why not do something positive which would better Islam?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Ace:
                        [B] (and yes I am talking about your categorizing)
                        Just one question: Where have I called the Shias kafirs????

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Indian_Muslim:
                          Just one question: Where have I called the Shias kafirs????

                          I said categorising and your exact sentence was 'Shias and kafirs'.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Subhanallah!

                            I see what you're saying Ace, name calling or catagorizing others fundamentally is taking on the role of God and judging.

                            Islaam is a beautiful religion which tells us how to live including how to deal with differences amongst the muslims and the nonmuslims. True muslims realize that everyone doesn't share their perspective and disagreements occur on many issues. However, Islaamic Adab (manners) clearly tell us how to deal with differences. We are to respect each other's opinions & present evidence to support, from the Quraan & Sunnah. If neither side proves a point, then we continue to remain courteous and respectful. If a fellow muslim shows us that our position is incorrect, then we praise Allah for this opportunity to be led in the right direction. Simply say "Alhamdulillah" and thank the brother/sister. We humble ourselves at all times where knowledge is concerned.

                            When we do see someone committing a sin or mistake, the proper Islaamic Adab is to speak with the person in private, in a gentle & kind manner in order to prevent public humiliation. It is very important to humble oneself and perhaps think how you would like to be approached and do that in the most considerate manner. It is every muslims responsiblity to help guide his brothers & sisters to the correct path but the manner is also very important. If you use the wrong approach, you may be exacerbating the situation instead of helping it.

                            We should keep in mind that we do everything for the sake of Allaah (subhaana wa taaala). By constantly reminding ourselves of our goal (pleasing solely Allah swt.) we can ward off arrogance, the ego, anger, and other base human qualities.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Ace:
                              exact sentence was 'Shias and kafirs'.

                              Now you are implying a lot of things here brother.

                              Maybe you do realise that I've been careful with my words.

                              And what was wrong with what I said. It's just an objective observation. Anyone who stands up for Islam is labelled a "Wahhabi" by the Kuffaar, and whenever Shias try to explain their beliefs, they call anyone who disagrees with them a "Wahhabi". You can't read an article written by the Shias without denouncing the Wahhabis, (but they will not define what a Wahhabi is, basically, any Sunni Muslim who raises any objection to their beliefs is a Wahhabi !!!). Some of the people who claim themselves Sufis (but are actually far from true Sufism) will justify their shirk by saying - "You must be a Wahhabi".

                              Now, Shias are trying their utmost best to divide the Muslims, (visit their sites or their messageboards please, b4 you accuse me of over-generalization) - and If I speak out against this behavior to preserve the unity of the Muslims , is it wrong?????

                              What is more important - being quite about a heretic sect which is using the unawareness and naiveness of the mainstream Muslims to divide them , or to speak out against them to preserve the unity of the Muslims ???


                              Comment

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