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    Suicide Bombers Qx's.

    Wanted to get a couple of viewpoints about this.

    What does the Koran say about this? (various interpretations?)

    Where does the 72 virgins waiting for the bomber in paradise thing come from? Why 72?

    What about female suicide bombers, do they get 72 male virgins?

    Thanks.

    #2
    not 72, they will get that many as many they want. number is not meantioned in Quran, I don't know where people got it from. in heaven all blessings will be unlimited...
    about if woman will get males, I don't know.. I asked my grandmother same question years ago when i was a kid. I asked her "men will get hoars(women with big eyes) what will we get????she said "you will know it when you will grow up" but I still don't know.


    [This message has been edited by secret_obsession (edited March 22, 2002).]

    Comment


      #3
      Well, I think they are doing out of ignorance, desperation, hatred or just craziness but I don't think they are doing it for 72 Virgins or whatever.

      I think those who send them knowingly are comtemptible people.

      Comment


        #4
        Suicide bombing is discussed today without there being an established school of thought on the matter. Some people still believe that it is not acceptable, although i think (in my opinion) that numbers who subscribe to this are increasingly in a minority.

        The justification from this comes from examples of when the Sahaba (companions of the Prophert, peace and blessings be upon him) would charge the enemy regardless of how outnumbered they were and how helpless their situation seemed.

        It is not allowed to turn your back on the battlefield and hence death is almost certain in some scenario's. Islam prohibits suicide because it contradicts the words of Allah, the exalted when He (swt) says in the glorious Qu'ran that He(swt) does not place a burden greater than any soul can bear. However, those who engage in suicide bombings (hence forth referred to as martyr operations) do not do so because of this reason. They do so because they are engaged in Jihad, a war, against the occupying forces.

        The nature of the occupation in Palestine means that the Jihad there is defensive. When there is defensive Jihad it becomes fard (obligatory) on those in the vicinity to engage in the Jihad and defend the honour of the Muslims and to liberate the land. Hence, for the sincere brothers and sisters engaged in the Jihad against occupying forces they are responding to the command of Allah (swt). Martyr's seek the pleasure of Allah (swt), His (swt)'s mercy and blesings.

        I have heard that for the male martyr that he is married to 70 virgins in paradise. However, Secret Obsession makes an interesting point and this figure of 70 I have no textual evidence to support with so I can't say it is anything other than something that I have heard. I will seek clarification.

        When we discuss the female martyr we don't know what lies in store for her exactly. i.e. Will she receive 70 male virgins?

        To consider this question think of it like this. We only know about Heaven and Hell what Allah (swt) chose to reveal. There is plenty that has not been revealed which we simply know nothing about and cannot even begin to speculate over.

        You might well ask, why didn't Allah (swt) reveal what lies in store for the sisters?

        Again, this quesiton is incorrect. To answer it would require an understanding of the nature of Allah (swt). And as before, all we know about Him (swt) is what he has chosen to reveal!

        We simply don't know why Allah, the exalted, chooses to do something or why He (swt) chooses not to do something.

        Comment


          #5
          Where do all the virgins come from?

          Are you supposed to have sex with them?

          What do you do with them when you get them?

          Comment


            #6
            underthedome,

            What does the Koran say about this? (various interpretations?)
            Quran does not address suicide directly, though there are verses that can be interpreted as against suicide. One which says; do not destroy yourself (Chapter 2: Verse 195) is commonly quoted. Many sayings of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) are quoted as against taking one's own life.

            Taking innocent lives is strongly condemned at many different places; one which categorically rejects such notions as suicide bombing says; "...whosoever killed a person - unless it be for killing a person or for creating disorder in the land - it shall be as if he killed all mankind; and whoso saved a life, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind..."(5:32)

            Where does the 72 virgins waiting for the bomber in paradise thing come from? Why 72?

            What about female suicide bombers, do they get 72 male virgins?
            The answer to this is far easier than you think. Everyone, regardless of which 'sect' or 'ideology' within Islam they adhere to, will testify that paradise is spiritual in nature & for the soul, not the body. And soul has no gender.

            When there is no body or gender, then what use are 72 virgins (male or female) worth?

            Mostly such fabrications are fantasies of Mullah (the priests), they have no relation to Islam.

            Though Quran talks about paradise but in parables like the Holy books before Quran have done so.
            I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
            - Robert McCloskey

            Comment


              #7
              The Godfather,

              The justification from this comes from examples of when the Sahaba (companions of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him) would charge the enemy regardless of how outnumbered they were and how helpless their situation seemed.
              I disagree. This example of Sahaba (Companions of the Holy prophets) does not relate to the suicide bombers even remotely.

              Actually the conduct of Sahabah (ra) and the Holy prophet (peace be upon him) is totally the opposite of todayís suicide boomers.

              The Holy Prophet (saw) and his companions tried their best to live peacefully among the Pagan Meccans but due to consistent persecution were forced out of their homes & so they decided to migrate to Medina.

              Even though they had the right to fight for their homes, their property and their land, they chose not to do so ... just for the sake of peace. And left Mecca and migrated to Medina.

              But the Pagans didn't leave them alone and haunted them down in Medina. Still you will not find a single incident where any of the Sahabas went back to Mecca and created violence or disorder. On the contrary, those who stayed in Mecca faced the daily persecution with patience and prayers! There is a history where the Pagans would torture them, only due to their faith, and in return the great companions of the prophet would return them prayers!

              Secondly, the battles you are talking about are those, which were waged by the Pagans of Mecca against Muslims outside Medina and Muslims fought them in total self-defense. The two armies fought face to face, nothing like the sneak attacks of suicide boomer.
              I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
              - Robert McCloskey

              Comment


                #8
                fighting against an army is allowed....
                but even killing civillians is NOT allowed in a war....
                then how cud it possibly be right to go and do a suicide bombing on a school or in a hotel????
                as someone mentioned, it is just craziness....

                and please do see that there is difference between fighting in a war and suicide bombing....



                ------------------
                "Our Lord! forgive us our sins and anything we may have done that transgressed our duty; establish our feet firmly and help us against those that resist faith." Quran(3:147)
                Both Halal & Haram r evident but between them r doubtful things, most ppl have no knowledge about them. So whoever saves himself from suspicious things saves his religion & honor, & whoever indulges in suspicious things indulges in Haram.

                Comment


                  #9
                  There is an area in the cosmos known as the 70 Virgins in the constellation of Virgo. It is an interesting parellel to the story and just speculation on my part. The killing of civilians is an abhorant way of conducting resistance by anyone. Even the Palestinians ought not to chose this method despite the actions of the nasties in Israel. The quote from the Qu'ran seems to speak to conflict involving armies in a classic sense. The death of civilians is tragic when done by accident and should be kept to a minimum at all times.

                  [This message has been edited by TOMASSO (edited March 23, 2002).]

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by TOMASSO:
                    There is an area in the cosmos known as the 70 Virgins in the constellation of Virgo. It is an interesting parellel to the story and just speculation on my part. The killing of civilians is an abhorant way of conducting resistance by anyone. Even the Palestinians ought not to chose this method despite the actions of the nasties in Israel. The quote from the Qu'ran seems to speak to conflict involving armies in a classic sense. The death of civilians is tragic when done by accident and should be kept to a minimum at all times.

                    [This message has been edited by TOMASSO (edited March 23, 2002).]
                    look here mr american this is another big misconception or a delibrate propaganda by some anti islamic lobby that wants to say that the sucide bomber is blowing himself up for the 70 awaiting virgins this is bull****
                    you people fail tto understand the pychology of a sucide bomber or a muslim who decides to end his life the way he does.
                    does this person the would be bomber does not have family? doesnt he like to live long and enjoy the pleasures of world as any human being would?
                    what drives this person to take this extreme step of blowing himself up?
                    the answer is there is a cause there is a reason why this man ends his life the way he does. he loves his religion and more than the religion he loves his fellow muslims who are under occupation who are being sluaghtered by the enemy. who are armed with sophisticated weapons and ruthless.
                    he sees no choice. look today whats happening in india muslims are being massacared and america is not interested because it does not affect the american interest. for 5 years bosnia was plundered raped slaughtered but america remained mute witness american mothers were not ready for causualties of your soldiers. and most americans including your dubya never knew whether afghanistan is in asia or africa.
                    after sept 11 hurt the americans and that brought this massive response.tommorow if right wing hindus attack americans then usa will wake up the its threat.
                    only a pervert will think of killing himself for those 70 virgins
                    you need some introspection and the same time look at the world from a muslim perspective and you will get answers for many things that face this world and usa

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by MMike:
                      Where do all the virgins come from?

                      Are you supposed to have sex with them?

                      What do you do with them when you get them?

                      virgins are already there (in heaven). and yeaha they will have sex there.

                      Ahmedjee, heaven is a spirtuial or whatever place. But I have clearly read in hadies that they will have sex there.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        kabir; you said well, but you didn't had to be that rude.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Kabir,

                          You are right that itís not in anyway the 72 virgins that anyone would take away his life for. Though I still do not agree with your reasoning or justification of suicide bombing.

                          As I explained above, the Holy Prophet (saw) and his Sahaba (ra) were far more persecuted than Muslims anywhere in the world today, and that was only for their faith. They were driven out of their homes, molested, killed, tortured etc. but they never took matters in their own hands.

                          Let me give you the example of Hazrat Bilal (ra), who was a slave and his masters would torture him daily for his faith. Well built and a strong man he could have retaliated and easily killed a dozen before they could get him down but he didnít choose to do so. Just like most of the other Sahaba didnít chose to do so.

                          So, these men have every right to go struggle for their land but killing themselves along with a few others (sometimes innocent civilians) is no solution to the problem, certainly not an Islamic way. They are actually giving in to the hardships of life and cowardly taking the short route out.
                          I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
                          - Robert McCloskey

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by kabir:
                            look here mr american this is another big misconception or a delibrate propaganda by some anti islamic lobby that wants to say that the sucide bomber is blowing himself up for the 70 awaiting virgins this is bull****
                            you people fail tto understand the pychology of a sucide bomber or a muslim who decides to end his life the way he does.
                            does this person the would be bomber does not have family? doesnt he like to live long and enjoy the pleasures of world as any human being would?
                            what drives this person to take this extreme step of blowing himself up?
                            the answer is there is a cause there is a reason why this man ends his life the way he does. he loves his religion and more than the religion he loves his fellow muslims who are under occupation who are being sluaghtered by the enemy. who are armed with sophisticated weapons and ruthless.
                            he sees no choice. look today whats happening in india muslims are being massacared and america is not interested because it does not affect the american interest. for 5 years bosnia was plundered raped slaughtered but america remained mute witness american mothers were not ready for causualties of your soldiers. and most americans including your dubya never knew whether afghanistan is in asia or africa.
                            after sept 11 hurt the americans and that brought this massive response.tommorow if right wing hindus attack americans then usa will wake up the its threat.
                            only a pervert will think of killing himself for those 70 virgins
                            you need some introspection and the same time look at the world from a muslim perspective and you will get answers for many things that face this world and usa






                            [This message has been edited by reza khan (edited March 23, 2002).]

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I think the suicide bombers are insane savage fanatic humans that kill innocent Israelis and hurt the Palestinian cause. I think it kills their credibility in the eyes of most of the civilized world. This and their inability to form a collective voice.

                              A few weeks ago, Israel invaded the refugee camps and the Palestinians attacked military check points with sniper attacks. I thought this was a respectable and more productive response on the part of the Palestinians.

                              Israel was out of bounds and the Palestinians answered with credible and effective attacks on military targets!

                              If this suicide bombing has been the Palestinian approach it fails, and has failed for 50 years right?

                              I mean the whole world just stands by and allows this occupation to happen.

                              Actions speak louder then words and the actions of the world is to condone the occupation and do nothing.

                              Maybe they should look into a new strategy?

                              I cannot see a loving God condoning suicide bombers, terrorists or militants at all.

                              God must be for peace.

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