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ANDHRA WAT DO U THIK?-PART 1

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    ANDHRA WAT DO U THIK?-PART 1




    DEAR BROTHER instead of finding faults try for a change to make sense of the following.

    Miracles of God were never meant to convince the disbelievers or insincere people to change their minds. Since God 's rule is clearly stated "There shall be no compulsion in religion" 2:256

    ONLY ONCE in the whole book that has 114 suras and 6346 verses did God Almighty choose to call Himself, "Possessor of the HIGHEST degrees" Actually the whole verse goes like this;
    " (God) Possessor of the highest degrees, and Ruler of the whole dominion. He sends inspiration, bearing His commands, to whomever He chooses from among His servants, to warn about the Day of Summoning." 40:15
    The expression "Possessor of the highest degrees" is "Rafii Al-Daragat", in Arabic the word Daragat=degree. Guess which is the highest degree this is ? It is the "Rafii" , where Rafii in Arabic = the Highest in English. Is it then a coincident that the gematrical (numerical) value of the word RAFII in Arabic = 360. This means God is the possessor of the highest degrees, the 360 degrees. No higher degree than this.

    Does this tell you something ? God the possessor of the highest degree (i.e 360) is in control of every letter and word in His book. Where the numerical value of the Word Rafii come from ? The word Rafii is an Arabic word with 4 letters, Raa, Faa, Yaa, and Ain.
    Here are the numerical value of the letters of Rafii, Raa= 200 , Faa=80 , Yaa=10, and Ain= 70
    The whole word adds to 200+80+10+70=360
    God Almighty who controls the whole universe got all the knowledge. God Almighty is the author of the Quran. Now you may understand the names that God gave Himself in these verses;
    "He (GOD) is the Alpha, and the Omega. He is the Outermost, and the Innermost . He is fully aware of all things." 57:3
    He is surrounding everything (Moheett) , He possesses the Highest Degree.

    All of us, at one time or another, have been compelled to contemplate creation. Questions such as the purpose of our lives and the existence of God, have been pondered upon from time immemorial. There have always been those who choose to interpret the harmony and order of the cosmos as a fluke of nature, but a closer look gives clear evidence of a design, and thus a designer. The discoveries being made on all frontiers are making this picture clearer by the day.
    Most contemporary scientists are agnostics. If they profess a religious belief, they keep their science and their religion in totally separate compartments of their lives. The conventional scientific view considers mathematics as the foremost example of a field where reason is supreme, where emotions do not enter, where we know with certainty, and know that we know; where the truths of today are truths forever. This view considers religion, by contrast, a realm of pure belief unaffected by reason. Therefore, in the view of the scientist, all religions are equal because all have been equally incapable of verification or justification.
    For any subject to be a proven fact, be it a law of physics or the Ten Commandments from the Torah, proof needs to be given. Proof basically means that a statement is true beyond a shadow of a doubt. It is validation and certification. It is the seal of authority, the mathematical power, the electric voltage, that vitalizes the static assertion about any subject. Proof is thus a celebration of the power of pure reason.
    Proof is a procedure by which a proposition about the unseen reality can be established with finality by a process of deduction and conclusion, and thus be made acceptable by all. Since a mathematical question will have only one definite answer, then different mathematicians, using different methods, working in different centuries and places will arrive at the same answer. Thus a mathematicalproof is unaffected by time or space.
    Galileo stated that mathematics is the language in which God wrote the universe. This is now a demonstrated fact. The universe expresses itself naturally in the language of mathematics. The force of gravity diminishes as the second power of distance, the planets move around the sun in ellipses, etc. Mathematics is thus a symbolic counterpart of the universe. It is the science of quantity and space, of pattern and structure. It is the methodology wherein hypothesis leads to conclusion.
    Mathematics provides irrefutable proof about the subject under consideration. It forms the very structure of the world, containing truths that are valid forever. Mathematics forms an integral part of all sciences, for example, medicine, astronomy, physics, engineering, sociology and Psychology.
    Mathematics is a science of the infinite. Its goal is the symbolic comprehension of the infinite with human, that is finite, means. It now elaborates a theology which declares the nature of God and the relationship of God and man.
    This is the age of science and reason. It is impossible for an intelligent person to accept the existence of God or the divine origin of any religion on blind faith. We need proof from God Himself, and if He is really what He tells us He is, namely omniscient and omnipotent, He should be able to give us ample proof.
    The only scripture which is still preserved in its entirety and in its original language is the Final Testament. It is a fact that the original Torah of the prophets of Israel is lost, and we do not have the Gospel of Jesus but that of his followers, nor do we have the original scriptures of the Hindus or the Buddhists. What we have now are the writings of humans who profess to know the original scripture.
    The Final Testament was entered into the computer in the 1970's. A unique phenomenon was discovered which has never been found in any other book. Irrefutable evidence has since emerged that the original language of the revelation was written in a way which conforms to a complex mathematical pattern. As research has continued it has been found that every element of the book is mathematically composed -- the chapters, the verses, the words, the numbers of certain letters, the number and variety of divine names, the unique spelling of certain words, and many other elements. Because of this comprehensive mathematical coding, the slightest distortion of the Quran's text or physical arrangement is immediately exposed. The mathematical composition leaves no doubt as to its divine origin. Numbers do not lie. In this volume, Abdullah Arik has presented as complete a picture of this code as is possible at this point. New parameters continue to be discovered at a breath taking rate.

    Mathematics is the language in which God wrote the universe.
    Galileo (1564-1642 AD)
    For many people the order, harmony and the perfect design of the things around them make it impossible to believe in the theory of evolution without a designer. Thus, they feel like Professor Edwin Conklin who once said "The probability of life originating from an accident is comparable to the probability of the Unabridged Dictionary resulting from an explosion in a printing factory." Yet, when these people turn to religion, they realize that most of their questions are unanswered. Besides, there are so many different religious faiths, each preaching theirs to be the right way. This makes the choice extremely difficult. Today all religions are nothing but various sets of traditions, rather than facts since they have lost their original message with time. Such corruption in religion has been caused by human ego and inventions that eventually distorted the truth for political and economic gain. Because of this, people who want to turn to the basics of religion are considered out of line with society.
    The lack of a modern miracle contradicts the idea that God is the Most Wise. It also gives the impression that God is not adaptable to our higher levels of thinking. Is God only capable of miracles for simpler, more ancient minds? Did God deliver His miracles to a few small generations, while our generation is greater in number, and there are e'ren larger generations to come?
    We live in an age of science and computers. We consider ourselves intelli- gent beings who do not accept ideas which cannot be proven. On the other hand, we accept on faith many notions that defy common sense. We are proud of ourselves because we know more about science and technology than our parents and ancestors. We readily accept what is better and more advanced than what our parents have had. Yet, many of us do not hesitate to follow our parents blindly in religion, even if it means doing something we do not fully believe in.
    The Quran clearly points out the practices and guidelines for the religion of Submission. It advocates universal unity of all people under one God, who is the Creator. It respects the people of all religions, and promises salvation as long as they are righteous and worship only the Creator. The Quran's universal view is expressed in the following verse:
    Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians,
    the converts; anyone who (1) believes in God, and (2) believes
    in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their
    recompense from their Lord; they have nothing to fear, nor will
    they grieve. (2:62)
    The Quranic Initial "Q" (Qaff):
    There are two suras in the Quran that has the Quranic Initial
    "Q" (Qaff)., Sura 42,& 50. Sura 50 is
    entitled "Q", prefixed with "Q" and the first
    verse reads, "Q, and the Glorious Quran" The indication is
    very strong that this "Q" stands for Quran.Here is a summary
    of the mathematical miracle found in the initial "Q":

    (1) The frequency of occurrence of "Q" in Sura "Q"(No.50) is
    57, 19x3
    (2) The frequency of "Q" in the only other Q-initialed sura
    (No.42) is also 57, 19x3
    (3)The total occurrence of the letter "Q" in the only two "Q"-initialed
    suras is 114,=19x6, as we read in sura "Q",
    the "Q" indicates the Quran. 114 is the total number of
    suras in the Quran.
    (4) Like the letter "Q" in each sura (42&50), the word Quran
    is mentioned in the Quran 57 times in referral to this
    Quran. 57=19x3

    (5)The Quran was described in sura "Q" as "Majid"
    (Glorious), the word Majid has a gematrical (numerical)
    value of 57,=19x3 (M=40, J=3, I=10, & D=4).
    (6)Sura 42 has 53 verses and 42+53=95 , 19x5

    (7) Sura 50 has 45 verses and 50+45=95, 19x5
    (8) The number of "Q"s in all the verses numbered "19"
    throughout the Quran is 76, 19x4 .


    Coincidence??
    Those who possess NO KNOWLEDGE say, "If only God could speak to us, or some miracles could come to us!" Others before them have uttered similar utterances; their minds are similar. WE DO MANIFEST THE MIRACLES FOR THOSE WHO HAVE ATTAINED CERTAINTY." [2:118]
    Islam (Submission in English) have a main theme, "There shall be no
    compulsion in religion:...." 2:256. And accordingly , God would not force the people to believe in Him. God reminds us that He could have made all the people believers, but if this happened, the reason of us being on this earth , in this life, would have been over.
    "Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the people to become believers ?!." [10:99]
    In Sura 6, God gives more explanation of that;
    "They also said, "If only an angel could come down with him!" Had we sent an angel, the whole matter would have been terminated, and they would no longer be respited." [6:8]
    Word/ Meaning Mentioned in the Quran

    Al-Dunya This world 115
    Al-Akhira The hereafter 115

    Word/ Meaning Mentioned in the Quran
    Al-Mala'ikah Angles 88
    Al-Shayateen Satan 88

    Word/ Meaning Mentioned in the Quran
    Al-Hayat Life 145
    Al-Maout Death 145

    Word/ Meaning Mentioned in the Quran
    Al-Rajul Man 24
    Al-Mar'ha Women 24

    Word/ Meaning Mentioned in the Quran
    Al-Shahr Month 12

    Word/ Meaning Mentioned in the Quran
    Al-Yahom Day 365

    Word/ Meaning Mentioned in the Quran
    Al-bahar Sea 32
    Al-bar Land 13

    If we add up the total words of both "sea" and "land" we get 45. Now if we do a simple calculation:
    32/45 X 100% = 71.11111111%
    13/45 X 100% = 28.88888888%

    Above is what we know today, the percentages of Water (Sea) and Land in the world. Yet another miracle in the Quran.

    God Almighty described His Mathematical Miracle of the Quran as one of the great miracles, swearing by the moon and by the night and day, see 74:35. Like all the miracles of God , it was intended for the sincere believers, those who seek Him ALONE and do not hesitate to worship Him ALONE. Miracles of God were never meant to convince the disbelievers or insincere people to change their minds. Since God 's rule is clearly stated "There shall be no compulsion in religion" 2:256 , the miracles were reserved ONLY for those who already committed themselves to worshipping God ALONE. The others do not see or appreciate any aspect of the miracle. They did not deserve it according to God. See Pharoah's example in the Quran. [7:146] I will divert from My revelations those who are arrogant on earth, without justification. Consequently, when they see every kind of proof they will not believe. And when they see the path of guidance they will not adopt it as their path, but when they see the path of straying they will adopt it as their path. This is the consequence of their rejecting our proofs, and being totally heedless thereof.

    THE SIMPLE FACTS
    Like the Quran itself, the Quran's mathematical coding ranges from the very simple, to the very complex. The Simple Facts are those observations that can be ascertained without using any tools. The complex facts require the assistance of a calculator or a computer. : The momentous discovery that "19" is the Quran's common denominator became a reality in January 1974, coinciding with Zul-Hijjah 1393 A.H. The Quran was revealed in 13 B.H. (Before Hijrah). This makes the number of years from the revelation of the Quran to the revelation of its miracle 1393 + 13 = 1406 = 19x74. As noted above, the unveiling of the Miracle took place in January 1974. The correlation between 19x74 lunar years and 1974 solar years could not escape notice. This is especially uncanny in view of the fact that "19" is mentioned in Sura 74.The following facts do not require any tools to be verified, but please remember they all refer to the original Arabic text
    1. The first verse (1:1),known as "Basmalah," consists of 19 letters.
    2. The Quran consists of 114 suras, which is ..............19 x 6.
    3. The total number of verses in the Quran is 6346, or ....19 x 334. [6234 numbered verses & 112 un-numbered verses (Basmalahs) 6234+112 = 6346] Note that 6+3+4+6 =.......19.
    4. The Basmalah occurs 114 times, despite its conspicuous absence from Sura 9 (it occurs twice in Sura 27) & 114= 19x6.
    5. From the missing Basmalah of Sura 9 to the extra Basmalah of Sura 27, there are precisely ...............19 suras.
    6. It follows that the total of the sura numbers from 9 to 27 (9+10+11+12+...+26+27) is 342, or .............19 x 18.
    7. This total (342) also equals the number of words between the two Basmalahs of Sura 27, and 342 = ........19 x 18.
    8. The famous first revelation (96:1-5) consists of .......19 words.
    9. This 19-worded first revelation consists of 76 letters .19 x 4.
    10. Sura 96, first in the chronological sequence, consists of .................................................. ...19 verses.
    11. This first chronological sura is placed atop the last ..19 suras.
    12. Sura 96 consists of 304 Arabic letters, and 304 equals .19 x 16.
    13. The last revelation (Sura 110) consists of ............19 words.
    14. The first verse of the last revelation (110:1) consists of ................19 letters.
    15. 14 different Arabic letters, form 14 different sets of "Quranic Initials" (such as A.L.M. of 2:1), and prefix 29 suras. These numbers add up to 14+14+29 = 57 = ......19 x 3.
    16. The total of the 29 sura numbers where the Quranic Initials occur is 2+3+7+...+50+68 = 822, and 822+14 (14 sets of initials) equals 836, or ................. 19 x 44.
    17. Between the first initialed sura (Sura 2) and the last initialed sura (Sura 68) there are 38 un-initialed suras 19 x 2.
    18. Between the first and last initialed sura there are ....19 sets of alternating "initialed" and "un-initialed" suras.
    19. The Quran mentions 30 different numbers: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 19, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 99, 100, 200, 300, 1000, 2000, 3000, 5000, 50,000, & 100,000. The sum of these numbers is 162146, which equals 19x8534.
    This is a condensed summary of the Simple Facts.
    Here is a summary of the Q-related data
    1. The frequency of occurrence of "Q" in Sura "Q" (No. 50) is 57, 19x3.
    2. The letter "Q" occurs in the other Q-initialed sura (No. 42) exactly the same number of times, 57.
    3. The total occurrence of the letter "Q" in the two Q-initialed suras is 114, which equals the number of suras in the Quran.
    4. "The Quran" is mentioned in the Quran 57 times.
    5. The description of the Quran as "Majid" (Glorious) is correlated with the frequency of occurrence of the letter "Q" in each of the Q-initialed suras. The word "Majid" has a gematrical value of 57.
    6. Sura 42 consists of 53 verses, and 42 + 53 is 95, or 19x5. 8.
    7. Sura 50 consists of 45 verses, and 50 + 45 is also 95, 19x5.
    8. The number of Q's in all verses numbered "19" throughout the Quran is 76, 19x4.
    For example, it was observed that the people who disbelieved in Lot are mentioned in 50:13 and occur in the Quran 13 times - 7:80; 11:70, 74, 89; 21:74; 22:43; 26:160; 27:54, 56; 29:28; 38:13; 50:13; and 54:33. Consistently, they are referred to as "Qawm," with the single exception of the Q-initialed Sura 50 where they are referred to as "Ikhwaan." Obviously, if the regular, Q-containing word "Qawm" were used, the count of the letter "Q" in Sura 50 would have become 58, and this whole phenomenon would have disappeared. With the recognized absolute accuracy of mathematics, the alteration of a single letter destroys the system.
    NuN (Noon)
    This initial is unique; it occurs in one sura, 68, and the name of the letter is spelled out as three letters - Noon Wow Noon - in the original text, and is therefore counted as two N's. The total count of this letter in the N-initialed sura is 133, 19x7.
    The fact that "N" is the last Quranic Initial (see Table 1) brings out a number of special observations. For example, the number of verses from the first Quranic Initial (A.L.M. of 2:1) to the last initial (N. of 68:1) is 5263, or 19x277.
    The word "God" (Allah) occurs 2641 (19x139) times between the first initial and the last initial. Since the total occurrence of the word "God" is 2698, it follows that its occurrence outside the initials "A.L.M." of 2:1 on one side, and the initial "N" of 68:1 on the other side, is 57, 19x3. Tables 9 to 20 prove that the initial "NuN" must be spelled out to show two N's.

    H.M. (Ha Mim)
    Seven suras are prefixed with the
    letters "H" and "M;" Suras 40 through
    46. The total occurrence of these two
    letters in the seven H.M.-initialed suras
    is 2147, or 19x113
    `A.S.Q. (`Ayn Seen Qaf)
    These initials constitute Verse 2 of
    Sura 42, and the total occurrence of
    these letters in this sura is 209, or
    19x11. The letter " `A"(`Ayn) occurs
    98 times, the letter "S" (Seen) occurs
    54 times, and the letter "Q" (Qaf)
    occurs 57 times.
    A.L.M. (Alef Laam Mim)
    The letters "A," "L," and "M"
    are the most frequently used
    letters in the Arabic language, and
    in the same order as we see in the
    Quranic Initials - "A," then "L,"
    then "M." These. letters prefix six
    suras- 2, 3, 29, 30, 31, and 32 and
    the total occurrence of the three
    letters in each of the six suras is a
    multiple of 19 [9899= (19x521),
    5662= (19x298), 1672= (19x88),
    1254= (19x66), 817= (19x43), and
    570= (19x30), respectively]. Thus,
    the total occurrence of the three
    letters in the six suras is 19874
    (19x1046), and the alteration of
    one of these letters destroys this
    phenomenon.
    A.L.R. (Alef Laam Ra)
    These initials are found in Suras
    10, 11, 12, 14, and 15. The total
    occurrences of these letters in these
    suras are 2489 =(19x131), 2489= (19x131),
    2375= (19x125), 1197= (19x63), and
    912= (19x48), respectively
    A.L.M.R. (Alef Laam Mim Ra)
    These initials prefix one sura, No. 13, and the total frequency of occurrence of the four letters is 1482, or 19x78. The letter "A" occurs 605 times, "L" occurs 480 times, "M" occurs 260 times, and "R" occurs 137 times.
    A.L.M.S. (Alef Laam Mim Saad)
    Only one sura is prefixed with these initials, Sura 7, and the letter "A" occurs in this sura 2529 times, "L" occurs 1530 times, "M" occurs 1164 times, and "S" (Saad) occurs 97 times. Thus, the total occurrence of the four letters in this sura is 2529+1530+1164+97 = 5320 = 19x280.
    An important observation here is the interlocking relationship involving the letter "S" (Saad). This initial occurs also in Suras 19 and 38. While complementing its sister letters in Sura 7 to give a total that is divisible by 19, the frequency of this letter also complements its sister letters in Suras 19 and 38 to give a multiple of 19. (See above).
    Additionally, the Quranic Initial "S" (Saad) interacts with the Quranic Initials "K.H.Y.`A." (Kaaf Haa Ya `Ayn) in Sura 19 to give another total that is also a multiple of 19.
    K.H.Y.`A.S. (Kaaf Ha Ya `Ayn Saad)
    This is the longest set of initials, consisting of five letters, and it occurs in one sura, Sura 19. The letter "K" in Sura 19 occurs 137 times, "H" occurs 175 times, "Y" occurs 343 times, " `A" occurs 117 times, and "S" (Saad) occurs 26 times. Thus, the total occurrence of the five letters is 137+175+343+117+26 = 798 = 19x42.
    H., T.H. (Ta Ha), T.S. (Ta Seen),
    & T.S.M. (Ta Seen Mim)
    An intricate interlocking relationship links these overlapping Quranic Initials to produce a total that is also a multiple of 19. The initial "H." is found in Suras 19 and 20. The initials "T.H." prefix Sura 20. The initials "T.S." are found in Sura 27, while the initials "T.S.M." prefix its surrounding Suras 26 & 28.
    Fourteen Arabic letters, half the
    Arabic alphabet, participate in
    the formation of 14 different sets
    of Quranic Initials. By adding the
    gematrical value of each one of these
    letters, plus the number of suras
    which are prefixed with Quranic
    Initials (29), we obtain a total of
    722, or 19x19x2.
    Additionally, if we add the total
    gematrical value of all 14 initials,
    plus the number of the first sura
    where the initial occurs, we get a
    grand total of 988, 19x52.
    The Grand Total for all initialed
    suras is 1089479. This number,
    in excess of one million, is a multiple
    of 19 (1089479 = 19 x 57341). The
    slightest alteration or distortion
    destroys the system.
    Note: The total gematrical value
    of the Quranic Initials in a given
    sura equals the gematrical value
    of each initial multiplied by the
    frequency of occurrence of that
    initial in the sura.
    The Word "God" (Allah)
    [1] As shown earlier the word "God" occurs in the Quran 2698 times, 19x142.

    [2] The numbers of verses where the word "God" occurs add up to 118123, also a multiple of 19 (118123 = 19x6217).
    From the first Quranic Initials
    (A.L.M. 2:1) to the last initial
    (N.68:1),there are 2641, 19x139,
    occurrences of the word "God."
    The word "God" occurs 57
    times in the section outside the
    initials
    By adding the numbers of the
    suras and verses where these 57
    occurrences of the
    word "God" are found, we get a
    total of 2432, or 19x128.

    The word "God" occurs in 85
    suras. If we add the number of each
    sura to the number of verses
    between the first and last occurences
    of the word "God," both verses
    inclusive, the Grand Total comes to
    8170 or 19x430.
    ] The Quran's dominant message is
    that there is only "One God." The word
    "One," in Arabic "Wahed" occurs in
    the Quran 25 times. Six of these
    occurrences refer to other than God
    (one kind of food, one door, etc.).
    The other 19 occurrences refer to God.
    The crucial importance of the word
    "ONE" as the Quran's basic message
    is manifested in the fact that the Quran's
    common denominator, 19, happens to
    be the gematrical value of the
    word "ONE."


    #2
    I am sorry. I could not understand your post.

    I sense the essential drift though.
    You are one of those who are trying to 'Rationalise' a 'Faith'.

    Also, you seem to suffer from a standard syndrome well meaning Muslims have, namely to proove Islamic theology and ideas were in all Religions all along.

    Typically this takes the form of

    1.Teaching Hindus their scriptures. THat is telling Hindus that Mohammed is mentioned in Vedas or Gita or whatever!!

    2.Correcting their religion for Christians , namely telling them Jesus didn't go to Heaven in body or got resurrected.(By the Way that belief is a corner stone of Christianity)

    Your post seems to be different in that you talked a lot about numbers.

    SO if you could sum it up, it will be great!!!

    Comment


      #3
      oh well i apologize.it was very immature of me .but i cant take it back now can i?ur reply is as predicted too.and u didnot even bother readinng it.all u want is to find faults and not explain anything.at least we got some thing to explain with.but the summary is do u think the prophet pbuh had a computer to help him .if so which model ?considering the fact he was illiterate if he wrote the quran himself he must be way beyond genious.then u will say he was an alien.u only know how to make critical comments.weaker the argument stronger the words.and u dont even have the guts to explain any of ur religious teachings, or the guts to read the posts being inntimidated by the sheer bulk.wat r u doing here anyway?well its bye bye from me.

      Comment


        #4
        doctornaveed bhai, Honestly I didn't bother to read because your post doesn't make sense.

        I didn't want to hurt your feelings, having felt brotherly towards you.

        Here's why I say your post doesn't make sense.

        Let's take the very first para of your post.

        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        The expression "Possessor of the highest degrees" is "Rafii Al-Daragat", in Arabic the word Daragat=degree. Guess which is the highest degree this is ? It is the "Rafii" , where Rafii in Arabic = the Highest in English. Is it then a coincident that the gematrical (numerical) value of the word RAFII in Arabic = 360. This means God is the possessor of the highest degrees, the 360 degrees. No higher degree than this.
        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        What is this 'gematrical' or 'numeric' value of Raffi ?

        Whcih language? Arabic?


        What if it sums up to 0 in my language?

        I mean how can you interpret God in such mundane ways?

        And then you jumped into Euclidian Geometry!!!

        You said 360 is the highest degree, so this indicates something.

        Honestly this sounds like Tarrot cards or Astrology.
        NOt that they are wrong in themselves, but they don't belong in a Religious debate!!

        Comment


          #5
          sure man sure .u r the man.just read the mathematics part .that same in ur language too.or dont bother brother who knows,mayb well be together down below

          [This message has been edited by doctornaveeed (edited March 23, 2002).]

          Comment

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