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What is the truth in Ahyodya?

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    What is the truth in Ahyodya?

    Ive heard many things about the Ram temple, that it was on the site originally, and that Babar knocked it down to make a point.
    I have heard from Muslims however that there was no temple on the site and that Babar infact never even went to Ahyodya. I have also heard that in his instructions to his son before his death, he told him never to touch the temples of the local people, so it seems unlikely he would have done so in Ahyodya.
    Lastly, The Moghuls are gone and so are the British. 200 years had gone by before the Hindus finally decided to knock down the masjid. Why did they choose to knock it down so many centuries after it was built? They could have knocked it down anytime during the 50 years of independance and yet they didn't. Was the Date of the Masjids destructions ordained by the Astrologers, or by the BJP and VHP?

    #2
    The facts about not just Ayodhya, but also the other places of worship holy to hindus(kashi,mathura and somnath) is very interesting. I have visited all these temples and read a few intelligent people primarily from the Archeological Survey of India. Here is my viewpoint.

    There is one freaking thing that muslims must not say which goes to demean a sane person's intelligence--that these temples were left untouched by muslim rulers. All these temples have one thing in common--a mosque abuts right along the temple wall and in all cases a temple ends rather abruptly. An architect of even minimal merit wouldn't choose to leave an abruptly truncated temple.Imagine you planned bulding your house with a hall and a bedroom. Would it just be strange coincidence that somebody who has the right to overrule you has his house abutting your hall without the bedroom??

    The fact is temples have atleast been partially demolished to build a mosque in all these holy sites. It was the moghul rulers way of saying, "I am in control of your freedom to worship".

    But in none of these sites atleast has a temple been FULLY demolished. A place of worship holy to Hindus was defiled but it most definitely was not completely destroyed.
    Lord Ram's birth place may/may not have been where the Babri Masjid stands now. But the fact is a temple would have stood where Babri Masjid previously was.If you do actually goto Ayodhya, it would be very hard for you not to accept this argument.

    But having said this,I am against trying to undo these things now. Let sleeping dogs lie as long as both Hindus and Muslims have the right of unrestricted worship.The earth would be one vast graveyard, if we try to correct all past injustices.But I think an apology for the original destruction is definitely due from the Muslim community.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by sundaram:
      But I think an apology for the original destruction is definitely due from the Muslim community.
      Is there proof that there was a temple prior to the 16th Babri Masjid?

      And you're asking me to apologize for some ruler that may or may not have demolished a hindu temple 500 years ago? Now this sounds very reasonable and intelligent to me.

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        #4
        Perhaps they owe some apology, if what you say is true, although, i would be hard pressed to apologize as a muslim for doing something that a leader who just happened to belong to my faith, whom i have nothing to do with, did centuries ago. But some form of understanding need to be developed between the two groups none the less.
        But you didn't answer my other question...
        What was up with the timing of the destruction of the masjid? why in 1993 and not so many years earlier?

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          #5
          Even one of the most well established people on Earth, the Americans, 100 years ago, they had been practicing cannibalism as a form of medicine and burning people on fire for being witches and wizards. 50 years ago, a white, intelligent man ran a gauntlet of death so vast that its holocaust is still being felt today. My point being, the west has no trouble letting go of the past and carrying on regardless. We talk about Mughals. The Mughals had ruled India for more than three hundred years. During that time the Mughals had absolute control and dominance over its people. During that time, the Mughal empire had enough force to crush and destroy anything it wanted. Instead it opened up a new way of thinking and living. The Taj Mahal that India boasts of so proudly, forgets the heritage it sprung from. Or that how the Indian culture flourished. An architecture remote to India was introduced. Now they talk of Hinduism. It will be the beginning of the end for India.
          Focus not on who you are but what you do...
          ])>:::}-:Salams:-{:::<([

          Comment


            #6
            muni & adnan,
            I reiterate. Its a pity I do not have a photograph but you are most welcome to believe that a mosque abutting a temple wall found in ALL the holiest of hindu shrines is pure coincidence but it cannot be a honest opinion. Based on this,the claim that a mosque was built destroying a temple is only circumstancial but it can hardly be denied that its very strong circumstancial evidence.Would any such queer "coincidences" be tolerated in a normal mosque in Pakistan leave alone the Grand Mosque in Mecca.When I said the Muslims should atleast apologize I based my conclusion entirely on this queer visual phenomenon of finding mosques abutting all major hindu temples. It would rank as a major undertaking in research on probability if all of these Mosques just "happened" to come up close to half-structured-temples. Finding archelogical evidence to actually prove it is impossible,I must confess.

            As regards to an apology,I do not demand it of muslims arising from their locus standi as one's being the inheritors of Babar's legacy. That would be silly. The dispute was raised originally in 1948 by the seer of Joshimath, an occupant of a high seat in the hindu clergy. The Babri Masjid was an abandoned mosque by then and the seer offered to relocate the mosque. Ayodhya has a special place especially for the sects the seer represented.The demand was rejected outright then by the muslim leaders and the muslim community leaders showed no sensibility in dealing with the issue. Afterall when he raised it first on the basis of faith, the seer had a valid point & harbored no ill will towards muslims. I think turning his request down on a Hindu holy site had no basis. If he had asked you to relocate the Jama Masjid in Delhi teeming with followers,that would have been patently unjust. But the Babri Masjid was a virtual anti-thesis of it. Anyway,I leave it to your fair judgement.


            The issue then went to the courts and got buried. The only entity interested in it upto about 1988 was the joshimath. Then the issue started getting political overtones and its finally landed up in the mess today.The demolition in 1991 was a culmination of Advani's effort to revive the Jan Sangh using an emotive issue. It had nothing to do with hindu sentiments. Advani worked it beautifully(but sadly,depravedly) in swaying the masses and its coming back to haunt him now. You should note here the seer who primarily raised the dispute had no intention of forcibly demoishing it.

            Comment


              #7
              ayodya is not about temple it is about
              elections . it is mcuh easier to promise
              to build a temple than provide clean water
              or build new schools or prevent outbreak of palgue.

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                #8
                well said rvkiz.The politicians have no buisness to talk about it.Leave it to the mutt heads and the imams.

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                  #9
                  I don't think Indian Muslims have to apologise for anything simply because they were not the ones who destroyed temples or worse, constructed Mosques practically on top of temples.

                  However Sundaram has a point. The Muslims as a community should have dealt with 'JoshiMath' seer.
                  My opinion is they got poor leadership.
                  The kind that wants Muslims to feel threatened.
                  That is past now, in my view. The matter would have been settled amicably. The Muslims would have let go of the place. After all no prayers were being held there.
                  If you take a dispassionate look at these 'Mosques' sitting on top of temples, you will conclude it was politics. The Muslim rulers wanted to drive a point home.

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                    #10
                    I think the best solution to bury this hatchet is to raze the whole ground altogether and

                    Build a memorial Park there with no religious color in it.
                    Rather the memorial park should signify harmony and peace among muslims and hindus as blow to hardliner hindus and Muslims

                    If some one have got sense in democratic India left, act now and act the way I suggested

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                      #11
                      Why do you need to build anything at all...
                      A nice mancured lawn with a sign should suffice. Why should God or Gods require man made things to honor them.

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                        #12
                        sundaram
                        where r ur religious scriptures.does public have access to them.urs is the only major religion without a prophet whom u have lost in ur legends n u r the only religion in which public has no acess to the religious books .care to tell me y is that?wat is the origin of ur religion?wat is the basic philosophy of having gods made out of eart u step on?wat is the philosophy of drinking stinking cow urine?


                        my dear fellow care to elaborate without being offensive

                        [This message has been edited by doctornaveeed (edited March 14, 2002).]

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