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    Help protect the weak

    One :-

    sign pettion at http://www.petitiononline.com/nhrc/

    two:-
    ---------------------------------------------

    Islamic Human Rights Commission

    ---------------------------------------------



    URGENT ALERT

    MARCH 12, 2002



    Plans to build a Hindu temple on the site of the Barbari Mosque in India

    The Islamic Human Rights Commission is deeply concerned by the imminent plans of the Vishwa Hindu Parishwad (VHP) to begin building a Hindu temple on the site of the demolished 16 Century Barbari Mosque which was destroyed by Hindu extremists in 1992 on 15th March 2002. This will only be a further catalyst for violence and will undoubtedly result in the escalation of the current communal riots to unprecedented levels. Allowing the project to continue will reward those who have carried out such brutal violence in the name of Hindu nationalism.



    Background

    Tensions between the Hindu community and the minority Muslim community have been exacerbated over the last decade by the rise of Hindu nationalism and riots disrupted in 1992 after the VHP extremists demolished the Barbari Mosque to build a Hindu temple. This has always been a cause for resentment between Hindu and Muslim groups and has acted as a catalyst to recent tensions. Indeed, the failure of the government to protect the Muslim holy site has been the cause for long-held resentment.



    The IHRC is extremely concerned that the Indian Government and various state apparatus, particuarly that of Gujarat, will not be able to adequately contain the violence and protect its Muslim minority population. Indeed recent events highlight their failure and unwillingness to put an end to the cycle of violence. They failed to adequately deploy security forces to protect the lives and property of the Muslims. The death toll figures are extremely disturbing as are reports of destruction and looting of personal property and the demolition of holy places. The authorities turned a blind eye to the atrocities so that the Hindu extremists could continue with their orgy of violence against the minority Muslim population.



    The riots of Gujarat highlight the lack of protection Muslim minorities are given in that region, and indeed in India.



    It is essential that we urge the Indian government to stop this catastrophic event, immediately intervene to stop the rebuilding of the temple, to protect its Muslim population and allow them to rebuild their mosque. More importantly, it is essential that we urge the British government to place an immediate arms embargo on India.





    Suggested Action

    The IHRC calls on campaigners to:



    1. Write to Indian government ministers, calling upon them to urge the Indian government to put an immediate end to the VHP project.



    Email these letters to at least the Prime Minister and President of India and if you have time to the others in the following list.

    President of India, Shri K R Narayanan: [email protected]
    Prime Minister of India, Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee: [email protected]
    Minister of External Affairs, Shri Jaswant Singh: [email protected]
    Minister of Home Affairs, Shri Lal Krishna Advani: [email protected]
    Leader of Opposition, Lok Sabha, Sonia Gandhi: [email protected]
    Leader of Opposition, Rajya Sabha, Dr Manmohan Singh: [email protected]
    Minister of State for External Affairs, Omar Abdullah: [email protected]
    Deputy Chairperson, Rajya Sabha, Najma Heptulla: [email protected]



    Please see the specimen campaign letter attached below.





    Dear……………….



    Re: Building Hindu temple on site of demolished mosque in India


    I am writing with deep concern about imminent plans of the Vishwa Hindu Parishwad (VHP) to begin building a Hindu temple on the site of the demolished 16 Century Barbari Mosque which was destroyed by Hindu extremists in 1992 on 15th March 2002. This will only be a further catalyst for violence and will undoubtedly result in the escalation of the current communal riots to unprecedented levels. Allowing the project to continue will reward those who have carried out such brutal violence in the name of Hindu nationalism.



    Tensions between the Hindu community and the minority Muslim community have always been high and riots disrupted in 1992 after the VHP extremists demolished the Barbari Mosque to build a Hindu temple. This has always been a cause for resentment between Hindu and Muslim groups and has acted as a catalyst to recent tensions. Indeed, the failure of the government to protect the Muslim holy site has been the cause for long-held resentment.



    I am extremely concerned that the Indian Government and the vaious state apparatus especially that of Gujarat will not be able to adequately contain the violence and protect its Muslim minority population. Indeed recent events highlight their failure and unwillingness to put an end to the cycle of violence. They failed to adequately deploy security forces to protect the lives and property of the Muslims. The death toll figures are extremely disturbing as are reports of destruction and looting of personal property and the demolition of holy places. The authorities turned a blind eye to the atrocities so that the Hindu extremists could continue with their orgy of violence against the minority Muslim population.



    The riots of Gujarat highlight the lack of protection Muslim minorities are given in that region, and indeed in India.



    I urge you to use your influence to request that the Indian government stop this catastrophic event and immediately intervene to stop the rebuilding of the temple. Furthermore, I urge you to ask the Indian government to put into place measures that will adequately protect its Muslim population and to allow them to rebuild their mosque.



    Yours sincerely,

    (Name)



    2. Write to the Foreign Secretary, requesting intervention in the building of a temple of the VHP on the site of the demolished Barbari Mosque, and requests for expulsion of India from the Commonwealth if it fails to comply.



    Specimen letter to the British Foreign Minister:



    Rt. Honorable Jack Straw Name……………………………..

    Foreign & Commonwealth Office Address………………………….

    King Charles Street …………………………..

    London, WC1 …………………………..

    12 March 2002



    Dear Mr. Straw,



    Re: Building Hindu temple on site of demolished mosque in India


    I am writing with deep concern about imminent plans of the Vishwa Hindu Parishwad (VHP) to begin building a Hindu temple on the site of the demolished 16 Century Barbari Mosque which was destroyed by Hindu extremists in 1992 on 15th March 2002. This will only be a further catalyst for violence and will undoubtedly result in the escalation of the current communal riots to unprecedented levels. Allowing the project to continue will reward those who have carried out such brutal violence in the name of Hindu nationalism.



    Tensions between the Hindu community and the minority Muslim community have always been high and riots disrupted in 1992 after the VHP extremists demolished the Barbari Mosque to build a Hindu temple. This has always been a cause for resentment between Hindu and Muslim groups and has acted as a catalyst to recent tensions. Indeed, the failure of the government to protect the Muslim holy site has been the cause for long-held resentment.



    We are extremely concerned that the Indian Government and various state apparatus especially that of Gujarat will not be able to adequately contain the violence and protect its Muslim minority population. Indeed recent events highlight their failure and unwillingness to put an end to the cycle of violence. They failed to adequately deploy security forces to protect the lives and property of the Muslims. The death toll figures are extremely disturbing as are reports of destruction and looting of personal property and the demolition of holy places. The authorities turned a blind eye to the atrocities so that the Hindu extremists could continue with their orgy of violence against the minority Muslim population.



    The riots of Gujarat highlight the lack of protection Muslim minorities are given in that region, and indeed in India.



    I urge you to use your influence to request that the Indian government stop this catastrophic event and immediately intervene to stop the rebuilding of the temple. Furthermore, the British government should ask the Indian government to protect its Muslim population and to allow them to rebuild their mosque.



    In light of such facts, if the Indian government fails to comply with the requests, I ask you to request the immediate suspension of India from the Commonwealth until such time as it agrees to comply. Moreover, I strongly urge you to place an immediate arms embargo on India and to oppose plans to give India a permanent seat at the Security Council.



    Yours sincerely,



    (Name)

    .................................................. ....
    Islamic Human Rights Commission
    Tel: +44-20-8902-0888
    Fax:+44-20-8902-0889
    email: [email protected]
    web: www.ihrc.org
    pgp key id: 0x84B1581A
    pgp key fingerprint: BE24 5433 2448 34BD 6F7A 4252 50D6 30DA 84B1 581A

    #2
    Signed, petition no.: 1501

    In my opinion the place should be sealed for both the people from doing any worship.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Verstehen:
      In my opinion the place should be sealed for both the people from doing any worship.
      Ibrahim says: salaams to all

      Sound option in my view but I do not think the Hindu mentality can accept such views.

      According to reports :


      A statement has been made by a VHP leader that if construction of the temple at Ayodhya does not begin on March 15th, the VHP will unleash a movement in every village of the country to construct temples.

      Full story at http://new.financialexpress.com/fe_f...ontent_id=4334

      Ibrahim says: Now this is a statement which is the core issue behind this trial project of the hindus . Once they achieve the ram temple construction another 101 Muslim mosques are earmarked for demolition on this manner in India

      Al this will keep this scoundrel government in power, for which the PM is a part of VHP

      Read their own POPE conveying what the Indian PM is doing at http://new.financialexpress.com/fe_f...ontent_id=4464


      Now look at what the hindu thugs have in mind

      Babar demolished the Ram Temple. It was demolished in 1992. Now the VHP wants to rebuild it.

      But has VHP forgot Kashi? Tommorrow. is Mahashivratri. Now that Kar Sevaks can not enter Ayodhya, they can march towards Kashi and liberate Kashi.

      KAshi Vishwanath Temple was demolished by Aurangzeb. like BAbar demolished Ram Temple.

      Till today, the old Kashi Vishvanath temple wall is visible as a part of the walls of the Gyanvapi mosque which Aurangzeb had built at the site.

      How about it?
      Not only Mosques, but the Dargas and Madarsa also should cease to exist on the "Vasundhara"

      full exchange at http://pub6.ezboard.com/fhinduunityh...cID=7190.topic


      The above web site are the hard core hindu thugs staying outside India , visit below web site to read how silly even the educated hindus can get
      http://www.indiadivine.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001147.html


      Ibrahim says: Thus this is just the beginning and what comes after is going to be even worse from the way the Muslims have ended up blindly supporting this hindutva government. They have little choice since they are being oppressed and kept under foot by the double standards that India practices.


      Regards
      Ibrahim

      Anyway this is not the only issue, as far as Muslims should be concerned , there is a Global war on Islam under the guise of eradicating terrorism by christians and it is going to affect every Muslim on this planet.


      Comment


        #4
        No soap. The struggle is against radical, militarized Islamic insurgents. This is justified even by Muslim standards. Hypothetically, if America were a Muslim nation attacked in the manner it was, retribution would be sanctioned by Islamic logic. Since you have strong Islamic beliefs, form a politicl party around these concepts and the West can't complain. Violence and terror are the wrong road to take! This avenue was not as pratical in the time of your holy man. He used warfare when he had to and I do not fault him for it. I can't blame him for fighting back against the crusaders. Nothing erroneous in that. By the way. the West's counter to Islamic terrorism is not Christian. It is secular and done to even protect Islamic life here in the US. This is undisputable fact. Before 9/11, Muslims were fairly free here in my country and I am proud of that. I wish it to return to normal soon, no thanks to our enemies. PS the Israelis need their a** kicked.

        [This message has been edited by TOMASSO (edited March 13, 2002).]

        Comment


          #5
          As regards to plans of demolishing a mosque, every temple holy to hindus(Ayodhya,Kashi,Mathura,Somnath) in India was atleast partially demolished to build a mosque over its carcass. The loot let loose by Muslim tyrants in Somnath is a part of the historical legend. These structures are illegal and imposed in the first place. When non-muslims aren't even allowed in Mecca there is no moral justification for non-muslims to put up with this nonsense.

          But that was forgiven and barring the Babri Masjid, no muslim property was touched in over 55 years of Independence. The apparentlly holy Babri Masjid was described as an unused Mosque by the Qazi in 1948 whe the dispute first arose.We beleive in not trying to correct historical wrongs.What about the 100's of temples that were demolished in Pakistan after the hindus were systematically cleansed out ion 1947. The expertise of the terror state is extended in full measure in driving out the pandits from kashmir in 1989.

          The worst possible genocide of muslims in the last century was practised in Afghanistan & Bangladesh. I hear obscene numbers of people killed during the war of liberation against tyranny in 1971--something like 3 million. Afghanistan has been systematically brutalized to a point of no return today by a regime actively supported,succored & kept aloft by Pakistan. I did not see any online petitions then Mr. Ibrahim.

          Comment


            #6
            ibrahim if you are honest please list # of muslims killed in the conflicts in the last 60 years all over the world including
            bangaldesh.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by sundaram:
              As regards to plans of demolishing a mosque, every temple holy to hindus(Ayodhya,Kashi,Mathura,Somnath) in India was atleast partially demolished to build a mosque over its carcass.

              Ibrahim says : Greetings of peace to one and all

              Sundaram dear, Man you must be awfully naieve or have very little capability to THINK on your own, IF EVERY TEMPLE HOLY TO HINDUS had been destroyed then where does all these hindu majority come from and how did those other temples survive in India?

              The loot let loose by Muslim tyrants in Somnath is a part of the historical legend.
              Ibrahim says: You mean the legend concocted by the hundutva historical frauds?


              These structures are illegal and imposed in the first place.
              Ibrahim says : really? Hmm and I suppose were a witness to this ?


              Wait a minute , I assume this is how you found it out:

              1) You used your crystal ball.
              2) You used a time machine.
              3) You used some Heroin.
              4) You were smoking crack.
              5) You're freakin insane.
              6) You're deranged.

              Since the first two are not possible, I can only assume it is one of the remaining four
              and I think it's all four actually...

              When non-muslims aren't even allowed in Mecca there is no moral justification for non-muslims to put up with this nonsense.
              Ibrahim says: LOL, you silly man, every country can dictate who is allowed to go where in their own territory, get it? Even in India one may not be allowed to go to specific places , due to military installations or otherwise as the state may decide. That is their sole will and NO ONE can question it!

              But that was forgiven and barring the Babri Masjid, no muslim property was touched in over 55 years of Independence.
              Ibrahim says: The very fact that I had witness a Hindu demolishing a another persons property PLUS KILLING NUMEROUS INNOCENT people and destruction of their properties ( similar to Jews demolishing others properties in Palestine) is evidence enough to condemn hindus and Hinduism in this current time frame.

              This is eye witness account, not accounts concocted in some history books written by the victors.

              Your notion that this is the only atrocity hindus have committed in my life time would be folly when you consider what the hindus did to the sikhs under the pretext of capturing Sikh rebels in amritsar.

              If that is not enough these vile hindus in India killed 35 innocent Sikhs to impress an American all the time pointing the finger at the ISI, when that failed they killed 5 Muslim Kashmere’s . this are all cold blooded murders committed by hindus.

              All these innocent deaths are due to the evil of Hinduism and the hatred they harbor against Islam and Muslims.


              The apparentlly holy Babri Masjid was described as an unused Mosque by the Qazi in 1948 whe the dispute first arose.We beleive in not trying to correct historical wrongs.What about the 100's of temples that were demolished in Pakistan after the hindus were systematically cleansed out ion 1947.
              Ibrahim says : As I said you seem very naieve, If a temple was destroyed by the state, any state , the people who have used them have a right to voice their grievances and make claims for it . Now show me in which court in Pakistan had hindus lodged a complaint and how it had been whitewashed or instead of settling the matter lawfully Muslims had gone on a rampage in Pakistan?

              The expertise of the terror state is extended in full measure in driving out the pandits from kashmir in 1989.
              Ibrahim says: Oh please, don’t talk about matters you have little knowledge about.

              The worst possible genocide of muslims in the last century was practised in Afghanistan & Bangladesh and I hear obscene numbers of people killed during the war of liberation against tyranny in 1971--something like 3 million..

              Ibrahim says : what!!! how dare you forget the 3 million hindus who disappeared in Bangladesh without a trace. That UFO those Pakistanis hired did a wonderful job, no bone no grave , no trace ; )


              and Afghanistan has been systematically brutalized to a point of no return today by a regime actively supported,succored & kept aloft by Pakistan. I did not see any online petitions then Mr. Ibrahim.

              Ibrahim says: You silly man No afghan ( except the shia opposition and the Christian backed crusaders sitting outside of Afghanistan ) ever complained, get it? It was the idiots from the outside who claimed the taliban were this and that., where the taliban brought stability to that country which the westerners had used as their battle ground.

              BTW every country and its community can decide what is best for themselves but no community has the right to destroy any property belonging to a legal claimant of that property.


              Now go work on it and THINK and study the hindu scriptures as to the kind of evil in teaches.

              Regards
              Ibrahim

              Only when you accept the rules of freedom can you call yourself free


              Comment


                #8

                Ibrahim says : Greetings of peace to one and all

                Sundaram dear, Man you must be awfully naieve or have very little capability to THINK on your own, IF EVERY TEMPLE HOLY TO HINDUS had been destroyed then where does all these hindu majority come from and how did those other temples survive in India?

                SUNDARAM>>> Do read my post in the section "What is the truth about Ayodhya". Lets argue after that.
                quote:
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                The loot let loose by Muslim tyrants in Somnath is a part of the historical legend.
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Ibrahim says: You mean the legend concocted by the hundutva historical frauds?


                SUNDARAM>>>Yeah ,keep lying without battling an eyelid. Who knows somebody may actually belive it.
                http://www.historyofindia.com/hist_text/turks.html

                quote:
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                These structures are illegal and imposed in the first place.
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Ibrahim says : really? Hmm and I suppose were a witness to this ?


                Wait a minute , I assume this is how you found it out:

                1) You used your crystal ball.
                2) You used a time machine.
                3) You used some Heroin.
                4) You were smoking crack.
                5) You're freakin insane.
                6) You're deranged.

                Since the first two are not possible, I can only assume it is one of the remaining four
                and I think it's all four actually...


                Sundaram>>We'll talk with evidence after you have read my post on Ayodhya. As far as the category I fall into its 6. An AIDS pateint requires compassion. You are a Mental AIDS patient.This is my way of showing compassion in reaching out to you. I don't want to pull you off your high donkey ride. Enjoy.

                quote:
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                When non-muslims aren't even allowed in Mecca there is no moral justification for non-muslims to put up with this nonsense.
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Ibrahim says: LOL, you silly man, every country can dictate who is allowed to go where in their own territory, get it? Even in India one may not be allowed to go to specific places , due to military installations or otherwise as the state may decide. That is their sole will and NO ONE can question it!

                SUNDARAM>>>Its an allegory for relative tolerance. Here we are being asked to tolerate & coming to terms with loot/destruction, but the other side wouldn't let us as much a step into their places of worship. AIDS patients of the mind cannot understand it.Sorry,don't try.

                quote:
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                But that was forgiven and barring the Babri Masjid, no muslim property was touched in over 55 years of Independence.
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Ibrahim says: The very fact that I had witness a Hindu demolishing a another persons property PLUS KILLING NUMEROUS INNOCENT people and destruction of their properties ( similar to Jews demolishing others properties in Palestine) is evidence enough to condemn hindus and Hinduism in this current time frame.

                SUNDARAM>>>The land of liberty,America supported segregation as late as 1972. A nation's maturity is not determined by abbreations but the maturity the people/polity shows is addressing it. Read the indian papers and what most parties have to say about it.You'll understand how much we try to grapple with it and solve it.The people voted the BJP for an alternative to the congress and the BJP found enough allies to be in govt. As with all mature polities things will evolve to weed out these elements and secure the saftety of all. Muslims in south india infact have been free from communal riots for decades now. But that's irrelevant if your only objective to jump on your high piglet & casue it to splash sewage from your sweet home onto me. Sorry mental AIDS patients can be helped only to a degree.


                This is eye witness account, not accounts concocted in some history books written by the victors.

                Your notion that this is the only atrocity hindus have committed in my life time would be folly when you consider what the hindus did to the sikhs under the pretext of capturing Sikh rebels in amritsar.

                If that is not enough these vile hindus in India killed 35 innocent Sikhs to impress an American all the time pointing the finger at the ISI, when that failed they killed 5 Muslim Kashmere’s . this are all cold blooded murders committed by hindus.

                All these innocent deaths are due to the evil of Hinduism and the hatred they harbor against Islam and Muslims.


                Vile unproven crap from the home of LET,JEM,Al-Qaeda and likes.Declared terrorist almost by the entire planet.I'll generate a fund for the larger benefit of mental AIDS patients so that you may be helped . The condition seems more serious than malnourished dying children affected with AIDS at birth.

                quote:
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                The apparentlly holy Babri Masjid was described as an unused Mosque by the Qazi in 1948 whe the dispute first arose.We beleive in not trying to correct historical wrongs.What about the 100's of temples that were demolished in Pakistan after the hindus were systematically cleansed out ion 1947.
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Ibrahim says : As I said you seem very naieve, If a temple was destroyed by the state, any state , the people who have used them have a right to voice their grievances and make claims for it . Now show me in which court in Pakistan had hindus lodged a complaint and how it had been whitewashed or instead of settling the matter lawfully Muslims had gone on a rampage in Pakistan?

                Simple,where are the hindus in Pakistan. A 22% population of Hindus ins Pakistan before partition stands at 1/2% in Jinnah's pakistan and 10% in Bangladesh. The horrors of partion made sure the requisite number were terrified enough not to raise a voice. Between raising voice for a temple & saving my life,its the latter. State Terror with clinical efficiency is your forte no doubt. LET,JEM and all other twits. Are they still freedom fighters.

                Oh yeah.Okay I was flying down from London-NY. A man was being dragged out of the immigration line for being an LET member by the police. So the next time you go through the US/Europe why don't you say your from the LET. That should be fun.Spend the reminder of your natural life behind bars.


                quote:
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                The expertise of the terror state is extended in full measure in driving out the pandits from kashmir in 1989.
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Ibrahim says: Oh please, don’t talk about matters you have little knowledge about.

                Okay let me play christ. Wretched Metal AIDS afflicted child arise and tell me what you know from atop your high piglet without fear.

                quote:
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                The worst possible genocide of muslims in the last century was practised in Afghanistan & Bangladesh and I hear obscene numbers of people killed during the war of liberation against tyranny in 1971--something like 3 million..
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                Ibrahim says : what!!! how dare you forget the 3 million hindus who disappeared in Bangladesh without a trace. That UFO those Pakistanis hired did a wonderful job, no bone no grave , no trace ; )


                SUNDARAM>>>But the point is a nation is free from mental AIDS patients like you. Who knows how many more would have been finished off in cold boold to prove your point. A nation with whom you shared a culture,calender,customs,norms,nomenclature,di**k and all else "Quiad" failed to mention stuck your d*** up your a**. You are still smarting and its shows in your rants on UFO's. Cool down.What next,ET perpetuated the genocide.

                quote:
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                and Afghanistan has been systematically brutalized to a point of no return today by a regime actively supported,succored & kept aloft by Pakistan. I did not see any online petitions then Mr. Ibrahim.
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                Ibrahim says: You silly man No afghan ( except the shia opposition and the Christian backed crusaders sitting outside of Afghanistan ) ever complained, get it? It was the idiots from the outside who claimed the taliban were this and that., where the taliban brought stability to that country which the westerners had used as their battle ground.

                BTW every country and its community can decide what is best for themselves but no community has the right to destroy any property belonging to a legal claimant of that property.

                goto www.afghansite.com Post a message saying you love the taliban. See the response.I'll watch from the sidelines. We'll measure how much the Afghans love the taliban.Are you game. The point is a terror regime you wouldn't deem fit to rule Metal AIDS patients like you was unleashed upon this poor people.

                Now go work on it and THINK and study the hindu scriptures as to the kind of evil in teaches.

                Okay,good day sweet child. Incase you drop dead with your mental AIDS affliction don't think too much.We'll all reach out to you.

                Regards
                Ibrahim

                Only when you accept the rules of freedom can you call yourself free

                Comment


                  #9
                  quote]SUNDARAM>>> Do read my post in the section "What is the truth about Ayodhya". Lets argue after that.[/quote]

                  Ibrahim says: MY QUESTION TO YOU WAS BASED ON YOUR ASSERTIONS so answer them here, if you are a credible human being worthy of respect!

                  I reapeat:

                  IF EVERY TEMPLE HOLY TO HINDUS had been destroyed then where does all these hindu majority come from and how did those other temples survive in India?



                  SUNDARAM>>>Yeah ,keep lying without battling an eyelid. Who knows somebody may actually belive it. http://www.historyofindia.com/hist_text/turks.html
                  Ibrahim says: you mean you based your assertion on a web site content and you hindus have been killing others because of it?


                  Ibrahim says : what!!! how dare you forget the 3 million hindus who disappeared in Bangladesh without a trace. That UFO those Pakistanis hired did a wonderful job, no bone no grave , no trace ; )

                  SUNDARAM>>>But the point is a nation is free from mental AIDS patients like you. Who knows how many more would have been finished off in cold boold to prove your point. A nation with whom you shared a culture,calender,customs,norms,nomenclature,di**k and all else "Quiad" failed to mention stuck your d*** up your a**. You are still smarting and its shows in your rants on UFO's. Cool down.What next,ET perpetuated the genocide.
                  Ibrahim says: sundaram, If you cannot talk like a human being and face the facts like civilized person using civilized language on this forum, get lost and don’t waste my time.

                  You can oppose me with whatever you got, but not with foul language or name calling or slander


                  Regards
                  Ibrahim

                  making a buck is easier compared to making a difference

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Ibrahim says: MY QUESTION TO YOU WAS BASED ON YOUR ASSERTIONS so answer them here, if you are a credible human being worthy of respect!

                    Crebile to true seekers of answers.

                    I reapeat:

                    IF EVERY TEMPLE HOLY TO HINDUS had been destroyed then where does all these hindu majority come from and how did those other temples survive in India?

                    Simple.Shows you the resilience of the faith. A people not in control of their destiny for 9 centuries did not give it up inspite of massive persecution.

                    Ibrahim says: you mean you based your assertion on a web site content and you hindus have been killing others because of it?

                    A website disseminates info.The content that goes into it is by historians of such merit as Romila Thappar. Its a fact of history & hence the site carries it. So efectively your lie was called.you are taking refuge in trivialities.


                    Ibrahim says: sundaram, If you cannot talk like a human being and face the facts like civilized person using civilized language on this forum, get lost and don’t waste my time.

                    You can oppose me with whatever you got, but not with foul language or name calling or slander

                    Civilized or Uncivilized, a truth of a massive muslim genocide by their own brothers burns bright in the form of Bangladesh. Lies in the form of UFO's , ET's and aliens cannot hide it.Plain,straight and simple truth in any form of language you wish to put it or see it in.I leave it to you but get out the lie.

                    [This message has been edited by sundaram (edited March 14, 2002).]

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Ibrahim: IF EVERY TEMPLE HOLY TO HINDUS had been destroyed then where does all these hindu majority come from and how did those other temples survive in India?

                      Sundaram: Simple.Shows you the resilience of the faith. A people not in control of their destiny for 9 centuries did not give it up inspite of massive persecution.
                      Ibrahim says Get real will you !! and tell us how a persecuted people can become majority of the country when they have been persecuted to the point all their temples were destroyed???

                      and are you saying the temple the hindus posses currently are all built after this persecution??


                      A website disseminates info.The content that goes into it is by historians of such merit as Romila Thappar. Its a fact of history & hence the site carries it. So efectively your lie was called.you are taking refuge in trivialities.
                      Ibrahim says: You must be naïve history is written by the victors and even now it is being altered by the hindus .


                      here read!

                      written by a HINDU

                      Hindutva Historical Fraud

                      Brahmin Historical Lies and Deception

                      Historical falsification was one of the main methods by which Brahmins annihilated non-Brahmin races throughout history. By erasing actual events and inventing false history the Brahmins succeeded in obliterating entire peoples from the map. The Yavanas, the Panchalas, the Koshalas, the Khazars, the
                      Buddhists, the Saurashtras and countless other races have been annihilated, whilst the cunning Brahmins survived. This historical fraud has continued into recent times, with Kautilyan Pseudo-Secularist
                      Brahmins and Hindutva Brahmins deliberately obscuring actual historical events, inventing far-fetched fantasies and ignoring archaeological facts. Here are some examples of the falsified Brahmin history taught
                      across schools in South Asia :

                      No Sudra Holocaust : The Brahmins blatantly deny any Sudra holocaust, and even go so far as to deny that any Aryan invasions took place ! : " this view is gaining strength among the scholars in the country that India itself was the original home of the Aryans. " (P. 48, HSIB 1.)

                      No Brahmin Gold : The very existence of Brahmin Gold is denied. All the vast treasure hoards illicitly looted by the Brahmins are simply ignored. This is done so that the Brahmins shall not have to return all the Brahmin Gold they have looted from the indigenous Sudras.

                      No Aryan Invasion : Brahmins such as Pandit N. Rajaram are now teaching that there was no Aryan invasion. As per this bigoted view, the Indus Valley Civilization was Aryan, as was all science of India, whilst the Black Sudra hopped around in trees. This theory necessarily implies that the Sudra is of a `degraded' race, inferior to the `superior' `Sarasvati-Sindhu' Aryan.
                      Brahmin Taj : Pandit Oak the Brahmin claims that the Taj Mahal was a Brahmin temple ! Such lunacies are now part of official Hindutva history teaching.

                      Homer stole the Ramayana : The psycopathic pandits claim that Homer stole the Ramayana !

                      Such nonsense is now taught in Brahmin-Occupied India.

                      Evil Islam : All evils which the Brahmins enforced upon the indigenous populations such as Sati,

                      Female Infanticide, Hijrahism and Devadasism, inventions that destroyed the very soul of India, are cunningly blamed on the Muslims. This is being done in order to fool the Indians into believing that
                      the Brahmins were innocent angels who `protected' the nation and simultaneously exterminate the Muslims.

                      Besides this, there is a whole list of historical frauds perpetrated by the Brahmins and their brainwashed idiotic followers. What good news for the faithful `savaran' (high-caste) Hindus, the loyal boot-lickers of the Brahmin tricksters ! These psycopathic pandits are now brainwashing little children with their
                      monstrous lies and froth-mouthed venom. Please read the article, published by Secular India on Brahmin historical lies :


                      Secular India, December 1998

                      In the Name of History

                      Examples from Hindutva-inspired school textbooks in India

                      by Nalini Taneja, University of Delhi

                      Communal historiography is quite old in India but the new additions reflect greater contemporary use in dividing society along communal lines. They are also stronger in the language and expressions used. Communal bias is woven into school textbooks with preposterous ‘facts’ in a way that can only have dangerous consequences for the educational standards in this country.

                      In the name of curriculum reform there is an attempt to rewrite textbooks along communal lines on a scale that will submerge all secular interpretations in school level teaching. A whole generation would grow up with their collective memory of a shared heritage destroyed and with ideas and information that have no basis in reality. A successful implementation of these texts on a widespread scale will mean the triumph of unreason as well as a tremendous and sudden deterioration in the quality of education, where the minimum criteria of correct empirical data and a scientific temper and reason are thrown to the winds. Our children will be little suited to face the real world or the world of scholarship

                      These books already form an integral portion of the curriculum in the 20,000 or more Vidya Bharati schools and also the Shishu Mandirs. The introduction of these texts into the Government schools in the BJP ruled states has massively increased the number of children who are being being made victims of this second rate and poisonous ‘knowledge’ The take over of educational bodies from the highest levels
                      to those determining the syllabi in schools, will carry this wave of fascist propaganda into the entire educational process. Coupled with other forms of popular education they could change our entire ways of looking at ourselves, and also propel our political visions along fascist rather than democratic lines.

                      We give below a sampling of these texts:

                      SOME GEMS FROM THE SANSKRIT GYAN TEXTS

                      Sanskrit Gyan texts are taught in Vidya Bharati schools and Shishu Mandirs. The recent RSS sponsored agenda paper on education that the Central Government tried to present before the Conference of the State Education Ministers suggested that these and similar texts be made compulsory for all schools.

                      The students are tested on dubious ‘facts’ such as:

                      Ram Janmabhoomi is the birthplace of Ram.

                      Iran was first settled by Indians (Aryans).

                      Homer adapted Valmiki’s Ramayana into an epic called Iliad.

                      Greek philosophers like Herodotus and Aristophanes were influenced by the Vedas.

                      The Egyptian faith was based on Indian traditions according to Plato and Pythagorus.

                      The language of the Native American Indians evolved from ancient Indian languages.

                      The cow is the mother of us all, in whose body Gods are believed to reside.

                      The Ayurveda is the finest medical system of the world, and it naturally evolved in India

                      Jesus Christ roamed the Himalayas and drew his ideas from Hinduism.

                      In the text books distributed in Vidya Bharti schools the map of India is shown as including not only

                      Pakistan and Bangladesh but also the entire region of Bhutan, Nepal, Tibet and even parts of

                      Myanmar ( "punnya bhoomi Bharat" )

                      A SAMPLE FROM THE HISTORY TEXTS

                      These texts are being used in Shishu Mandirs and Government Schools in BJP controlled states.

                      Ancient history:

                      Rama and Krishna took birth here to destroy evil and defend justice, religion and Sarasvati, and god took birth here many times to make this land pure. India is referred to as Sone ki chiriya and jagadguru ( p 4 ,Gaurav Gatha (henceforth GG), the textbook for Class 4, Sarasvati Shishu Mandir, written in an extremely emotional and provocative style.)

                      Our land has always been seen with greedy eyes by the marauders, barbarous invaders and oppressive rulers. This story of invasion and resistance is our 3000 year long Gaurav Gatha . When this proud tradition actually began is difficult to say because no books were written at that time, but we believe that the first man was born in this land (p.8, GG)

                      To our ancestors these marauders were like mosquitoes and flies who were crushed (p. 8 GG)

                      Bacchus and Dionysis, among the earliest invaders, suffered such a defeat that feelings of terror ran in Greece(p. 9, GG) Darius had to face such a defeat that never could Iran raise its eyes towards India (p. 10 GG)

                      About 2200 years ago India’s trade was spread far and wide; foreign markets were filled with goods made in India. Heaps of gems and jewels and gold and silver filled the treasures People of the entire world used to look to India with greedy eyes (p.12 GG)

                      Mahapadma Nanda had so much wealth that if divided among the population, every person would get Rs. 50 lakhs each (p.13 GG)

                      Alexander’'s army was defeated at the hands of Puru and Alexander himself had to seek forgiveness (p.15 GG)

                      Then came Demetrius. The preaching of ahimsa had weakened North India. The Kshatriyas -- followers of the Vedic religion -- were feeling frustrated. The ruler of Magadha was a Buddhist. So he did not come forward to fight. But then was the country enslaved. Did the enemy become victorious in the birthplace of Bhagwan Rama? No, no (p. 31, GG)

                      Pushyamitra destroyed the Greeks. After this the people of Greece could not attack Bharat. Later they came only as refugees. As beggars they begged for their lives but never dared to look with proud eyes. The great man who destroyed the Greek power from its very roots was emperor Pushyamitra. India is proud of him even today. Every day we remember his name.(p. 35-37, GG)

                      Asoka advocated ahimsa. Every kind of violence came to be considered a crime. Even hunting, sacrifices in yajnas and use of arms began to be considered bad. It had a bad effect on the army. Cowardice slowly spread throughout the kingdom. The state bore the burden of providing food to the Buddhist monks. Therefore people began to become monks. Victory through arms began to be viewed as bad, Soldiers guarding the borders became demoralised. (p. 30, GG)

                      With the finds of bones of horses, their toys and yajna altars, scholars are beginning to believe that the people of the Harappa and Vedic civilisation were the same. (High School Itihaas Bhaag (henceforth HSIB)1, p. 43, history textbook for secondary schools, Government of U. P. revised in 1992 to suit the communal interpretations of Indian history. This book deals with the history of India from pre- historic times to 1526.)

                      Aryan culture is the nucleus of Indian culture, and the Aryans were an indigenous race. " But about the Aryans who were the builders of Bharatiya Sanskriti in Bharat and creators of the Vedas, this view is gaining strength among the scholars in the country that India itself was the original home of the Aryans."(P. 48, HSIB 1.) Archaeological and literary evidence does not support this theory.

                      Chanakya desired to "see the entire Bharat united into one nation."(P. 77, HSIB 1) Empire building is deliberately confused with nationhood.

                      In a revised textbook three lines have been interpolated which reflect an utter disregard for facts. These lines are "It is worth mentioning that inspite of such a large empire, Asoka had got his edicts engraved only in one script (Brahmi) and one language : Prakrti-Sanskrit. This symbolises the national unity of the
                      times".

                      The entire period of Indian history from the death of Harsha till the 12th century has been described as the Rajput kaal (p. 168).

                      The qualities of ancient traditional self-pride, love of freedom, the feeling of pride towards Indian culture among Rajputs confirm the view that the Rajput race is the descendent of ancient Kshatriya families (p. 170 HSIB 1). That they had their ancestry in certain invaders is dismissed as a conspiracy of western historians.

                      Medieval history:

                      The religious factor was the predominant factor in policies and conflicts throughout the medieval period

                      Muslim rule in India was a foreign rule ( the reference is to the medieval period of Indian history when the rulers were Muslims, although factually even this is incorrect if one takes the entire country into account)

                      Lakhs of foreigners came during these thousands of years but they all suffered humiliating defeat. There were some whom we digested when we were disunited, we failed to recognise who were our own and who were foreigners, then we were not able to digest them. We were not able even those who for some compulsion had separated from us. Mughals, Pathans and Christians are today some of these people." ( Itihaas Ga Raha Hai for Class5 in Shishu Mandir schools)

                      Islam spread in India solely by way of the sword. The Muslims came to India " with the sword in one hand and the Qoran in the other. Numberless Hindus were forcibly converted to Islam on the point of the sword. This struggle for freedom became a religious war, Numerous sacrifices were made in the name of religion. We went on winning one battle after another. We did not let the foreign rulers settle down to rule, but we were not able to reconvert the separated brothers to Hinduism." ( Itihaas Gaa Raha Hai)

                      Arabs (barbarians) came to convert people to their religion. Wherever they went, they had a sword in their hand. Their army went like a storm in all the four directions. Any country that came in their way was destroyed, Houses of prayers and universities were destroyed. Libraries were burnt.. religious books were destroyed. Mothers and sisters were humiliated. Mercy and justice were unknown to them. (p.s.52-53 GG)

                      The second phase of the freedom struggle began with the invasion of India by Mahmud of Ghazni (Gaurav Gatha Class 4)

                      Mohammad Ghori killed lakhs of people, Visvanath Temple and Bhagwan Krishna’s birth place were converted into mosques. In turn he was killed by Prithviraj Chauhan ( p.s. 67-68, GG )

                      Qutb Minar was constructed by Samundragupta, and its original name was Vishnu Sthambha ( p. 73, GG ).

                      The `‘foreign’ ruler Muhammad bin Tughlak transferred his capital from Delhi to Deogiri in South India out of fear of the Hindu kings (p. 73, GG ).

                      When Peshava Madhav Rao came to the throne no one could raise his eyes. The English, the French and the Portuguese shivered; they presented gifts in homage in his court with their heads bowed. Delhi’s emperor was his puppet. Moghul power had ended. Nizam and other Muslim states with bowed heads
                      sought his ( Peshava'’s ) refuge. The entire country was in a sense independent (p. 111 GG)

                      Due to the circumstances, it ( Islam ) gradually assumed the form of a military religion (`sainik dharma') and with the force of arms, with a lightening speed it advanced and became an international religion.( p. 184, HSIB 1)

                      Now the sword of Islam was transferred from the Caliphs to the Turks (p. 189, HSIB 1)

                      The aim of Mahmud of Ghazni and Mohammed Ghori in coming to India , apart from plunder was the spread of Islam in India (p.s. 190, 195, HSIB1).

                      Allauddin imposed 50% land revenue on the Hindus. ( p. 228 HSIB 1).

                      Hindus accepted turkish political supremacy only under compulsion. They retained their identity even while leading the life of insult and humiliation. (p. 260 HSIB 1).

                      Most of the Sultans adopted a policy of religious intolerance. They committed atrocities against hindus, demolished idols and temples .because of this the Hindus had surrendered to the Sultanate but they were always making efforts to destroy the Sultanate ( p.278 HSIB 1 )

                      The followers of Islam in this country whether they came as traders or as invaders-but with this country they could never establish full cultural harmony. One basic reason for their separateness was the basic principle of their religion which is monotheism…there was continuous mutual struggle between the two cultures (p. 280, HSIB 1)

                      The indian society during the Sultanate period was divided into two main classes-ruling or Muslim classes and ruled or non-Muslims of whom the Hindus were the majority) the majority of the population of the state was hindu but the Muslim class was patronized by rulers. Hindu was merely the payer of taxes . Inspite of being conquered in the political field, Hindus did not lose courage. To regain their lost independence, they went on raising their voices from time to time. Because of this historians have called it the "period of resistance". (p. 281, p. 283, HSIB 1)

                      In India the nature of the mussalman state was a religious state (p.282, HSIB 1)

                      By adopting jauhar vrat, women defended their religion and chastity.(p. 183 HSIB1)

                      Child marriage, jauhar, sati, purdah, jadu-tona and superstition were all due to the fear of the muslims (p. 284 HSIB 1)

                      The Babri Mosque was constructed after destroying a temple, which in turn stood on the exact spot where Rama was born.( High School Itihaas Bhaag 2, p. 146. This book covers the period from invasion of Babur to recent events)

                      The epithet intolerant is constantly used for Jahangir, Shah Jahan and Aurangzeb

                      The Qoran was the basis for the state policy of Aurangzeb, and whatever policy was adopted for running the Government was basically for promoting Islam ( HSIB 2, p. 119)

                      Destruction of temples and schools attached to them and the building of mosques in their place was a general policy with Aurangzeb .(HSIB 2 p. 120)

                      Shivaji and Rana Pratap were fighters for national liberation. All the ‘Hindu’ kings who fought for their kingdoms against the Moghuls are presented as such.

                      In the text books from Maharashtra, the medieval history of Maharashtra begins and ends with Shivaji. All other historical figures exist only in reference to him.

                      Modern Indian history:

                      About 190 pages of the book deal with the history of modern India, of which only 20 pages are devoted to the nationalist movement (HSIB 2), of which 3 pages are devoted to Dr. Hedgewar. Important nationalist leaders are mentioned incidentally in comparison. Quit India movement has ½ page, Jinnah is the villian.

                      Although there are 60 pages on the entry of the British and establishment of British rule, there is nothing that would promote an understanding of colonialism (HSIB 2)

                      Peoples movements find no place.

                      The book is full of factual errors, inconsistencies, and chronological lapses.

                      The Muslims are solely blamed for the partition of India.

                      The RSS as an organisation is presented as central to the Freedom Movement. Dr. Keshavrao B. Hegdewar is one of the tallest leaders of the freedom struggle. Statements of a large number of national leaders have been quoted in praise of the RSS.

                      In the section dealing with the movement against the partition of Bengal the name of Hegdewar has been added as a leader of the movement, the other names mentioned being those of Tilak, Aurobindo Ghose, Lajpat Rai and Bipin Chandra Pal.

                      In the context of the civil disobedience movement there is no mention of the Lahore Congress or Purna Swaraj.

                      The shishu mandir text book is worse on all these counts, and the RSS and its leaders are said to have removed the evils which hundreds of years of slavery had given…this Sangathan became an object of pride for the country ( p. 86 )

                      SUBSTANTIAL amendments and additions that suit the RSS ideology have also been made in grammar, literature and political science books for Classes IX, X, XI and XII in Rajasthan.

                      In one of the texts, "A New Collection of Poems and Literary Writings" (Nutan Gadya Padya Sangrah--the original title in Hindi), prescribed for Class IX, there are, among others, four articles, one each by Prof. Rajendra Singh (Rajju Bhaiya), RSS chief; Tarun Vijay, editor of the RSS weekly Panchajanya; K.C. Sudarshan, also an RSS ideologue; and Dr. Jalamsingh Ravlot of the Swadeshi Jagran Manch. All four articles were added this year.

                      In a textbook for Class XI, titled Political Science - An Introduction and Indian Political Thinkers, a chapter on Deen Dayal Upadhyay has been added. This 1998-99 edition describes him as a person who had deep respect for "ancient and highly sophisticated culture of India", who envisaged an "ideal Dharmarajya" and who was upset that "while designing the Indian Constitution, the natural and national values had been ignored." The 20-page section highlights his belief in "Akhand Bharat" which was all for dissolving the 1947 Partition and cites the occasion in April 1964 when he along with Dr. Ram Manohar Lohia conceived of a "Mahasangh" in which India and the partitioned countries (Pakistan and Bangladesh) would be included.

                      Rana Pratap’s heroic deeds are the subject of a poem in the High school Hindi syllabus. The poem Haldighati, written by Shyam Narain Pandey was banned in 1975 as it was found to incite communal feelings.


                      To express your outrage, counter Brahmin historical lies now. Post this message to newsgroups and all your contacts

                      Author : Manoranjan Munda

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