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    Hey, How do Muslims feel about Cloning?


    From time to time I hear this rumor that scientists have collected DNA from the shroud of Turin, and theoretically could clone Jesus Christ!! I love telling my Christian friends this it scares the Hell out of them.


    Not poking fun at the shroud, but I think the rumor is just crazy.

    Seriously Cloning is a hot topic and I wonder if Muslims are Pro, Against, or have mixed feelings about the subject?


    My religion is strictly against it, However my son has a heart condition that could be fatal as he grows up, Cloning may hope for a treatment for him so I am interested in cloning and morality issues.


    #2
    Assalam Akailum brother,

    You know you have raised a new good issue. Cloning. Now from my limited knowledge, here is what I think. Do you know that it is permissible to consure haram food (swine) when you have nothing else at your disposal? Well, God Forbid God Forbid, if you are left with no choice but to do the surgery, then I dont think moral rules should hinder you. But then ofcourse those MULLAS who have a mic and it isnt their child in the Hospital, will strictly prohibit this saying "Allah Taala said this and Allah Taala said that" just to show their hard line approach as they have nothing to loose.

    *I dont check this post very often so if you dont hear from me, relax! I will be back!


    ------------------
    Dont tell your God how big your problem is.. Tell your problem how big your God is!
    Jazak allah khair

    Comment


      #3
      well believe it or not, one of the major things emphasized in islam is education. and to probe and discover the secrets of the universe. so far we've just reached the moon. in 5-10 years we'll be at mars.. who knows 50 yrs later we'll be 'chilling' on pluto..

      point is, the universe is out there for us to discover. but not exploit. humans have a habit of exploting something useful so much so that it gets abused really badly.

      i think there should be a limit imposed to cloning, depending on the nature of the situation.

      ------------------
      gaajar pyaaz halwa,
      na seh sako gay mera jalwa..
      Yaad aaiy jo dard ki raat may, jis ki baat ho apni har baat may.

      Comment


        #4
        I would completely agree with you there! Watch your limits!!!! This rule is a very healthy practice and works in all fields to avoid complications.


        ------------------
        Dont tell your God how big your problem is.. Tell your problem how big your God is!
        Jazak allah khair

        Comment


          #5
          Why would God put limits on us? Why would he tempt us into crossing those limits?
          I mean, would you dangle a gun in front of a 3 year old and then punish him when he starts playing with it? Compared to Gods infinite wisdom, we are 3 year olds. Look what we unleashed with the Nuke Bomb...
          If god is Love and Understanding, if his love IS GREATER THEN THAT OF A MOTHERS FOR HER CHILD, then why would god intentionaly dangle guns in our collective faces? My conclusion is that there are very few if any limits, we are allowed to discover gods secrets because he has left them to us to be discovered. Our lives in this Universe are very limited, we are basically a speck in the history of the Universe, individually we are even less. What we discover of this Universe during our brief stay in it, is the irrelevent.

          Comment


            #6
            CLONING IS SCIENTIFICALLY ENGINEERED CREATION OF TWINS. THE GENETIC ASPECT OF MODERN RESEARCH POSES SERIOUS QUESTIONS AS TO CREATING CUSTOM MADE HUMANS. THE NAZI'S WOULD HAVE USED THIS. FULL FREAK CAPITALISTS MAY BACK IT AS WELL. "I HAVE SEEN THE FUTURE AND IT IS NOW".

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by TOMASSO:
              CLONING IS SCIENTIFICALLY ENGINEERED CREATION OF TWINS. THE GENETIC ASPECT OF MODERN RESEARCH POSES SERIOUS QUESTIONS AS TO CREATING CUSTOM MADE HUMANS. THE NAZI'S WOULD HAVE USED THIS. FULL FREAK CAPITALISTS MAY BACK IT AS WELL. "I HAVE SEEN THE FUTURE AND IT IS NOW".
              I fully agree with you here, In "Quran", Almighty God says again and again the he put limits on things and gives the example of sun, moon and stars that he made them work in balance to be in control. In cloning is the future of producing, above average, average and below average humans and contorl them for different functionalities. Which is in nature inHUMAN and playing God-God. History is evident that in past Prophet Moses time the Kings and his people started playing to be God, and were destroyed and punished badly. We as a human is given lot of choices and at the same time warned us of the limits. Not every limit is explained such as RESERVED LETTERS in Quran such as ALIF, LLAM, MEAM..........


              [This message has been edited by Banda-e-Nake (edited March 09, 2002).]

              Comment


                #8
                They should clone Ataturk and put him in every Mullah's home.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Again i ask you, why does god put things which he knows we will abuse right in front of us and then, expecting us not to touch, punish us when we do? Sounds a bit cruel dont you think?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Do not believe all the rhetoric you here from the US media today. It is not absolutely representative of what the people think. There are many things that I am in agreement with regarding Islam, though I am a Catholic. Some of the basics of your faith do not align with mine, but many of the lesser things do mesh. It might be a good thing that Islam has a militant side to it. It gives it a life force. America might be horrified that this fanaticism exists, but it does show that some folks take religion very seriously. Some might see mujahadin as a throwback, but others see them as standing their ground. I don't like terrorism's direct results, but it's indirect effects are manifold. I would welcome a higher profile of Islam in the West. By that I mean a more vocal moral voice, not violent activism. Have a better day in spite of the world situation.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Badshah420:
                      They should clone Ataturk and put him in every Mullah's home.
                      u know there is an old saying, "if u cant say something good, just SHUT-UP"....

                      i see u saying very stupid things lately....
                      whats the matter????

                      ------------------
                      "Our Lord! forgive us our sins and anything we may have done that transgressed our duty; establish our feet firmly and help us against those that resist faith." Quran(3:147)
                      Both Halal & Haram r evident but between them r doubtful things, most ppl have no knowledge about them. So whoever saves himself from suspicious things saves his religion & honor, & whoever indulges in suspicious things indulges in Haram.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by armughal:
                        u know there is an old saying, "if u cant say something good, just SHUT-UP"....
                        i see u saying very stupid things lately....
                        whats the matter????
                        Friend, I dont wanna be rude but the only arrogant and rude posting I found in this thread was yours.
                        Anyway, its your and Badshah.

                        Now to brother Adnan
                        [/B][/QUOTE]
                        Again i ask you, why does god put things which he knows we will abuse right in front of us and then, expecting us not to touch, punish us when we do? Sounds a bit cruel dont you think?
                        [/B][/QUOTE]

                        This is how God tries people who pretend to be believers. To saperate believers from non-believers. No one can question his wisdom. Can you? No one can question his judgement. Can you?
                        Let me present my theory to you for which I got a 'D' in my Philosophy class.
                        Ever seen BMW Benz and Audi crashed right into the wall at crash test centers? Think what will happen if you show this to an uneducated man. This is what he will probably say "My lord! these idiots just crashed the best piece of art into the wall!" And at the same time if you ask the engineers what they felt about the test, they would probably say "GREAT! just a little more adjustment and one more test and WE ARE READY!!!" If God can create a Human, you have no right to ask God how He makes him die.

                        Later I learnt my professor was an Athiest! and I thought to myself "2 and 2 really does make 4!!!!"

                        Maybe God puts us in trouble to see how we react. And show us what we are capable of!



                        ------------------
                        Dont tell your God how big your problem is.. Tell your problem how big your God is!
                        Jazak allah khair

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I am not an expert on this subject by any means. But I think that all governments and religions should take a hard look at it's risks and potentials.

                          I am hearing that cloning techniques are not using cells collected by both male and females, rather they are using the eggs from females and "electrically" charging them as to initiate cell division and gestation. There for there is no conception involved.

                          I don't think that scientists have publicly announced that they have allowed this cell division to develop into an embryo. Last I heard they stopped the division short as to not create "life." I think it is the stem cells that they are shooting for. The building blocks.

                          So the Pro Life crowd that screams Life begins at conception. What will they say?

                          There really is no conception involved.

                          I hope that religious political leaders just don't make rash decisions.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            There is really the potential for great evil and good to come from this technology. Especially when you consider adding genetics into the whole mix.

                            I work at a zoo and we are already using genetics and selective breeding in animals (have been for years).


                            A few examples are:

                            Some of our frogs and Toads eat fruit flies as part of their diet. We breed fruit flies in large test tubes as a food product. Often times the fruit flies escape their containers and fly all over the office. They even get into our coffee cups! That is unacceptable. So we breed genetically altered wingless variety of fruit flies. Coffee problem is solved. There are probably other reasons for the wingless flies that benefit the animals directly, I am not sure.

                            Rats are fed to our snakes, the hair of rats does not digest well and makes a terrible mess in the snakes cages. Hairless rats are solve this problem.

                            Some frogs and toads and tiny snakes eat "pinky" rats (day old rats) well someone has to kill these baby rats which is an unfavorable job. Genetically altered headless rats are born alive but die at birth. Prefect food product. Just pop them in the freezer.

                            Honestly I don't think this is a common practice. We don't breed our own rats, we buy them all frozen. But the headless rats are real! ( as well as many other genetically twisted animal varieties)

                            I wonder if this is all possible with animals how much of this will be going on with human cloning in the future.

                            Headless humans, limbless humans, altering genetically until we are just growing the parts we need rather then whole humans.

                            Sounds like a sci-fi movie but......

                            Who knows.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Cloning
                              http://www.muslims.net/iol-english/d...0/techng1b.asp

                              From an Islamic perspective, two issues have been discussed regarding cloning. First, does it bring into question Islam's belief about Allah's attribute as the Creator in any way? Second, should it be permitted? The Islamic Fiqh Council first contacted the Organization of Muslim Doctors in Kuwait and organized a preliminary conference in Casablanca. Then the issue was discussed in the meeting of 1997. The medical experts were also invited to the meeting who explained the process and its implications to the Academy. Regarding the first issue, there was a consensus that cloning does not bring into question any Islamic belief in any way. Allah is the Creator of the universe but He has established the system of cause-and-effect in this world. Sowing a seed in the ground is the cause but only Allah produces the effect from it in the form of a plant. Similarly cloning is a cause and only through Allah's Will it can produce the effect. Just as the person sowing the seed is not the creator of the resulting plant, so the cloning technician is not the creator of the resulting animal. Allah alone is the Creator and all creation takes place solely through His Will. Regarding the question of permissibility, the majority of the council members after discussion reached the conclusion that cloning is permissible in case of plants as well as in case of animals except human beings. The extension of cloning to human beings would create extremely complex and intractable social and moral problems. Therefore cloning of human beings cannot be permitted. (Al Balagh)

                              Genetic Engineering
                              http://www.islamset.com/bioethics/ge.../genetics.html

                              Genetics, Genetic Engineering, the Human Genes, and Genetic Treatment - An Islamic Perspective : Seminar held in October 1998

                              The Seminar discussed genetic engineering and the reservations surrounding it since it first emerged in the 1970's, regarding the potential risks involved in its unregulated practice. It is seen as a double-edged sword that can be equally used for good or evil.

                              The Seminar agreed that genetic engineering may be used in the prevention, treatment or alleviation of diseases, whether in the form of genetic surgery in which genes are replaced by other genes or genes are implanted in the patient's cells, or when genes are planted in another body to obtain larger amounts of the same gene to be used
                              in the treatment of certain diseases. Genetic engineering should not be used on germ cells, due to certain reservations from the Islamic legal point ofview.

                              The Seminar affirms the need for countries, in view of the high cost of such process, to provide such facilities to their nationals who need it, especially those with limited income.

                              The Seminar also recommends that genetic engineering not be used for any sinister or offensive purposes, or crossing the genes boundaries between various species in order to produce hybrids or merely for sport or scientific curiosity.

                              The Seminar also recommends that genetic engineering must not be adopted as a means for changing the human genetic constitution, in what is called the improvement of the human breed, or in genetically tampering with the human personality or interfere in man's competence or individual responsibility.

                              The Seminar warned that scientific progress should not be made open to monopoly or profiteering and so deprive the poor from benefiting from these achievements. The Seminar supports the United Nations Organisation's policy in this regard of establishing research centres for genetic engineering in developing countries and providing the necessary personnel training and facilities for such centres to function.

                              The Seminar finds no Islamic legal objection to the use of genetic engineering in the fields of agriculture and livestock, without ignoring, however, those voices that have recently warned of possible harmful long-term effects on man, animals, crop or the environment. The Seminar agreed that companies and factories producing animal or plant foods should make it clear to the public what is being offered for sale of those items that are genetically manufactured. The Seminar also recommends that countries should be fully vigilant in monitoring such products and complying with the relevant recommen-dations and decisions of the American Food and medicine Association, the World Health Organisation, and the International Food Agency.

                              [This message has been edited by mAd_ScIeNtIsT (edited March 10, 2002).]
                              Muslims are so good at dividing that they can divide the atom. If you see two Muslims, probably they belong to 3 parties.
                              Al-Ghazali

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