Physical Abuse

[Sarah Splendor]

What does Islam say regarding men beating their wives, in any and all circumstances or situations? How about sin incurred by the woman when she does not obey her husband?

Please quote from the Quran and hadiths.

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You're my girl
And that's all right
If you sting me
I won't mind
- Deftones

[ahmadjee]

Sarah,

The best person who knew Quran & followed it is the beloved Holy prophet (saw)! And he never raised his hand against his wife, daughters or any other female for that matter, in his whole entire life! So, in my humble opinion there is no justification for abusing one’s wife!

Well, I am sure there are a few people who twist & turn some ahadiths & verses of Quran to give them this right and indeed they are cruel in their intentions!

[Sarah Splendor]

ahmadjee, I have read that a man is allowed to beat his wife. He is allowed to beat her only lightly, but it is still beating and it is still physical abuse. I want to know whether this is true or not and if there are other things the Quran and hadiths say about the matter. Following is the quote from Surat Nisa where I got the physical abuse part from:

Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see illconduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) BEAT THEM (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance) - Surat Nisa, 34th ayat

Are women allowed to beat and admonish as well? How is illconduct defined?

I am also talking about more than just physical abuse. I am pasting a quote from the prophet here that was posted in another thread in another forum. Is this hadith fabricated or has it been misinterpreted or incorrectly translated? It was not contested when it was posted.

From Hazrat Mohammad (P.B.U.H) a quote:
"If a wife doesnt come to bed when her husband is ordering to do so, she will get the 'Laanat' from Malaika's all night"..

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You're my girl
And that's all right
If you sting me
I won't mind
- Deftones

[This message has been edited by Sarah Splendor (edited March 01, 2002).]

[Tiddah]

Sarah

That is what the Koran says, therefore beating lightly must be allowed. You cannot twist the words of the Koran to fit popular opinion

[PakistaniAbroad]

ok.... two Friday posts.. but.. this topic did need an explanation.

Here's the verse in question..

Yusufali

[an-Nisa' 4:34] Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because God has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what God would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, And (last) beat them (lightly) (va adriboohunna); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance) fala tabghu alayhinna: For God is Most High, great (above you all).

PakistaniAbroad: For ages, men have abused this verse without pondering over Allah's message of going the extra mile in kindness towards women.

adriboohunna has it's root from daraba

daraba has often been used, in fact most frequently been used when describing Moses striking the ground with his stick.

BUT, that's not the ONLY meaning!

Let's explore other possible meanings of this word as used in the Qur'an.

daraba has been used in 14:24, 16:75, 16:76, and other places to mean set forth as in:

Yusufali

[Ibrahim 14:24] Seest thou not how God sets forth (daraba) a parable? .....

PakistaniAbroad: SO the word can also be used in the form of set forth or put forth

daraban, another form, has been used in (2:273) and it's use is just as interesting:

Yusufali

[al-Baqarah 2:273] (Charity is) for those in need, who, in God's cause are restricted (from travel), and cannot move about in the land (daraban fil arze)......

PakistaniAbroad: Now we understand that daraba can have different meanings. Here it's used in the sense of 'moving' or 'departing' or 'set forth'.

Also used in another form:

Pickthall

[an-Nisa' 4:101] And when ye go forth (darabtum) in the land, it is no sin for you to curtail (your) worship if ye fear that those who disbelieve may attack you. In truth the disbelievers are an open enemy to you

PakistaniAbroad: It should be clear to the reader by now that daraba doesn't always translate into strike, beat, or smite.

It can also be set forth, move, migrate, depart.

fala tabghu alayhinna = so do not you opress/transgress on them

Let's use our knowledge of the possible meanings of the word daraba and revisit the relevant portion of the verse:

...As to those women on whose part ye fear ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, And set forth/move/migrate/depart them; but if they return to obedience, do not oppress/transgress on them.

So Allah provides the males in the face of a quarrelsom/disobedient spouse the following recourse:
[list=1][*]admonish[*]refuse to share bed[*]set forth/depart/move/migrate them/from them[*]but if they return to obedience, not to oppress or transgress on them[/list=a]

One again, translations done in early days under the influence of concocted hadith accounts tried to tarnish the real message of the Qur'an but alhamdolillah, the Qur'an is it's own index, it's own dictionary and it's own tafseer.

Allah Knows Best.

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There is No Spoon

[This message has been edited by PakistaniAbroad (edited March 01, 2002).]

[Sarah Splendor]

.

[mm10]

Well SS as an ordinary man I do'nt think or believe that Islam would allow anyone whether man or women any sort of torture conductance, physical or emotional on each other!
You can't be happy with each other though all the time, that does'nt warrant one's to act like a child and start using lame Islamic excuses of torture allowance,
Perhaps Ibrahim may shed more light on this issue if he is around

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Sarah, this is what Dr. Jamal Badawi, probably the single most prominent scholar amongst the Muslim Community in Britain, has to say on the subject.
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http://www.jannah.org/sisters/end.html

In the event of a family dispute, the Qur'an exhorts the husband to
treat his wife kindly and not overlook her POSITIVE ASPECTS (see
Qur'an 4:19). If the problem relates to the wife's behavior, her
husband may exhort her and appeal for reason. In most cases, this
measure is likely to be sufficient. In cases where the problem
continues, the husband may express his displeasure in another peaceful
manner, by sleeping in a separate bed from hers. There are cases,
however, in which a wife persists in deliberate mistreatment and
expresses contempt of her husband and disregard for her marital
obligations. Instead of divorce, the husband may resort to another
measure that may save the marriage, at least in some cases. Such a
measure is more accurately described as a gentle tap on the body, but
NEVER ON THE FACE, making it more of a symbolic measure then a
punitive one. Following is the related Qur'anic text:

Men are the protectors and maintainers of women. because Allah has
given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support
them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly
obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have
them guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and
ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next) do not share their beds,
(and last) beat (tap) them (lightly); but if they return to obedience,
seek not against them means (of annoyance): for Allah is Most High,
Great (above you all). (4:34)

Even here, that maximum measure is limited by the following:

a. It must be seen as A RARE EXCEPTION TO THE REPEATED EXHORTATION OF
MUTUAL RESPECT, KINDNESS AND GOOD TREATMENT, discussed earlier.
Based on the Qur'an and hadith this measure may be used in the cases
of lewdness on the part of the wife or extreme refraction and
rejection of the husband's reasonable requests on a consistent basis
(nushuz). Even then, other measures, such as exhortation, should be
tried first.

b. As defined by hadith, it is NOT PERMISSIBLE TO STRIKE ANYONE'S
FACE, CAUSE ANY BODILY HARM OR EVEN BE HARSH. What the hadith
qualified as dharban ghayra mubarrih, or light striking, was
interpreted by early jurists as a (symbolic) use of miswak (a small
natural toothbrush)! They further qualified permissible "striking" as
that which leaves no mark on the body. It is interesting that this
latter fourteen-centuries-old qualifier is the criterion used in
contemporary American law to separate a light and harmless tap or
strike from "abuse" in the legal sense. This makes it clear that even
this extreme, last resort, and "lesser of the two evils" measure that
may save a marriage does not meet the definitions of "physical abuse,"
"family violence, " or "wife battering" in the 20th century law in
liberal democracies, where such extremes are so commonplace that they
are seen as national concerns.

c. The permissibility of such symbolic expression of the seriousness
of continued refraction DOES NOT IMPLY ITS DESIRABILITY. In several
ahadith, Prophet Muhammad (P) discouraged this measure. Among his
sayings are the following: "Do not beat the female servants of Allah;"
"Some (women) visited my family complaining about their husbands
(beating them). These (husbands) are not the best of you;" and"[It is
not a shame that] one of you beats his wife like [an unscrupulous
person] beats a slave and maybe he sleeps with her at the end of the
day." (See Riyadh Al-Saliheen, op.cit,p.p. 137-140). In another
hadith the Prophet(P) said

...How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel
and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?... (Sahih
Al-Bukhari,op.cit., vol.8.hadith 68,pp.42-43).

d. True following of the sunnah is to follow the example of the
Prophet Muhammad (P), who NEVER RESORTED TO THAT MEASURE, regardless
of the circumstances.

e. Islamic teachings are universal in nature. They respond to the
needs and circumstances of diverse times, cultures and circumstances.
Some measures may work in some cases and cultures or with certain
persons but may not be effective in others. by definition, a
"permissible" act is neither required, encouraged or forbidden. In
fact it may be BETTER TO SPELL OUT THE EXTENT of permissibility, such
as in the issue at hand, rather than leaving it unrestricted and
unqualified, or ignoring it all together. In the absence of strict
qualifiers, persons may interpret the matter in their own way, which
can lead to excesses and real abuse.

f. Any excess, cruelty, family violence, or abuse committed by any
"Muslim" can never be traced, honestly, to any revelatory text (Qur'an
or hadith). Such EXCESSES AND VIOLATIONS ARE TO BE BLAMED ON THE
PERSON(S) HIMSELF, as it shows that they are paying lip service to
Islamic teachings and injunctions and failing to follow the true
Sunnah of the Prophet (P).

[armughal]

sarah u can easily see that this is not allowed in Islam....
enuff verses of the Quan and Hadith have been posted already....

so what is it that u find diffciult????
accepting that Islam does not allow such "abuse"....
or that no matter how hard u try u cant find flaws in The Religion....

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"Our Lord! forgive us our sins and anything we may have done that transgressed our duty; establish our feet firmly and help us against those that resist faith." Quran(3:147)

[PakistaniAbroad]

Originally posted by Sarah Splendor:
You yourself concede to this point when you say beating is "not the ONLY meaning!" of daraba. The fact that there are multiple meanings to the word make me doubt that the meaning you give is in fact the right one, especially since a meaning other than the one you give has been used by scholars for such a long time.

Sarah,

Even if the whole town sees a glass half empty, it doesn't cease to be half full. We can argue that since there is room for interpretation of the word there can be 'alternate' or at times 'wrong' interpretations, but to assert that since a majority of people follow the 'wrong' translation hence it must be 'true' is absolutely against Allah's instructions.

Here's what the Qur'an has to say on matters of interpretation of Allah's verses.

Al-Zumar 39:18] Those who listen to the Word, and follow the best (meaning) in it: those are the ones whom God has guided, and those are the ones endued with understanding.

PakistaniAbroad: It's abundantly clear to me that my responsibility when reading and interpreting the Qur'an is to find the 'best' meaning. In the scenario under discussion, I find it closer to the Qur'anic spirit to interpret daraba as depart or move.

If it's any reassurance to you, the number of times daraba in it's many forms is used as set forth or move is greater than the number of times it's been used as strike or hit

Just because translators regurgitate what was written many years ago in male dominated socieites without actually pondering on Allah's verses is no reason for me to blindly follow without using my own intellect and knowledge. Remember 'scholars' are human beings. They make mistakes too.

Even if Allah meant daraba to be used as to set forth or to put forth, that still doesn't remove the fact that Islam gives men power over their wives and the wives must obey their husbands otherwise the men "will refuse to share their bed" and "will move away from them" - emotional blackmail.

Let's see what Allah instructs us as a society to do if we see a marriage going south.

The very next verse to the verse under discussion:

[an-Nisa' 4:35] And if you fear a breach between the two, then appoint judge from his people and a judge from her people; if they both desire agreement, Allah will effect harmony between them, surely Allah is Knowing, Aware

PakistaniAbroad: I see Allah is giving equal rights to both to decide their fate.

[an-Nisa' 4:128] And if a woman fears ill usage or desertion on the part of her husband, there is no blame on them, if they effect a reconciliation between them, and reconciliation is better, and avarice has been made to be present in the (people's) minds; and if you do good (to others) and guard (against evil), then surely Allah is aware of what you do.

[an-Nisa' 4:129] Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire: But turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air). If ye come to a friendly understanding, and practise self-restraint, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

[an-Nisa' 4:130] And if they separate, Allah will render them both free from want out of His ampleness, and Allah is Ample-giving, Wise.

PakistaniAbroad: Women are free to leave. The women is not to be FORCED to live under adverse conditions and Allah doesn't instruct men to have such an unhealthy union.

Does that help Sarah?

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There is No Spoon

[faceup]

How to Punish and/or Beat the wife is a fine art just like doing the wadu/ablution is a fine art. Books have been wriiten on the subject matter:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wor...000/849029.stm

excerpts from the article:
Under the heading Abuse, the author discusses whether a husband has the right to beat his wife. He recommends verbal correction followed by a period of sexual abstinence as the best punishment for a wife, but does not rule out a beating as long as it is kept within strict guidelines.

The imam writes that, to avoid serious damage, a husband should never hit his wife in a state of extreme or blind anger.
He should never hit sensitive parts of the body such as the face, head, breasts or stomach.

He should only hit the hands or feet using a rod that is thin and light so that it does not leave scars or bruises on the body.
The husband's aim, he said, should be to cause psychological suffering and not to humiliate or physically abuse his wife.

[Andhra]

Awesome. Sarah it must be clear to you by now that beatings are OK.
Only difference where and how to beat

[Karloz]

Originally posted by Andhra:
Awesome. Sarah it must be clear to you by now that beatings are OK.
Only difference where and how to beat

Hey Andhra should know where, how and the proper procedure of beatings, since he has a lot of experience in that category. Ain't that right Andhra


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-------Yaroo Ye He Dosti Hai!!-------

[FreeMind]

i do not know y born-again muslims r so apologetics in defending quran. The verse is very clear that beating is allowed. This verse has been interpreted for centuries by mainstream islam in a very clear way. Women's inferirotiy is established in islam as an emotional and immature creature. So treating her like a child is allowed.

[PakistaniAbroad]

Not much of a "Free Mind" .. are you??

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There is No Spoon