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Will there be 'boys' in paradise?

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    Will there be 'boys' in paradise?

    I was wondering what I'd write for my now usual Friday post, but Andhra's post gave me the idea.

    Here are two veres quoted often and misinterpreted to advocate that Muslims will 'sexually enjoy' the company of 'young boys'.

    Let's see the traditional translations first and then we'll tackle them with special attention towards the words that some people seem too eager to take with
    them to Club Pedophilia.

    Yusufali

    [at-Tur 52:24] Round about them will serve, (devoted) to them (yatufu alayhim) Youths (handsome) (ghilmanun) as Pearls well-guarded

    [ad-Dahr 76:19] And round about them will (serve) (yatufu alayhim) youths of perpetual (freshness)(vildanun mukhalladun) If thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered Pearls

    [ad-Dahr 76:20] And when thou lookest, it is there thou wilt see a Bliss (naeeman) and a Realm Magnificent (mulkan kabeeran)

    PakistaniAbroad: The context of both verses is a description of the rewards for people who had believed and the blessing which are being showered upon them for being righteous.

    Let's now see the correct translation of the important words:

    yatufu alayhim = circle/walk around on them

    ghilmanun = slaves/servants/boys *

    vildanun = children/newborns/boys *

    mukhalladun =immortal/eternal/everlasting

    naeeman = blessing/goodness/comfort and ease/happiness

    mulkan kabeeran = an ownership/a kingdom/a possession big/greatlarge

    [*] Since both verses are contextually simlilar, let's find the correct meaning of ghilmanun after confirming the correct meaning of the word vildanun

    vildanun - has been used in many places in the form valadan, but for the sake of brevity, let's take 18:4 and 18:39.

    [al-Kahf 18:4] Further, that He may warn those (also) who say, "God hath begotten a son" (valadan)

    [al-Kahf 18:39] And wherefore did you not say when you entered your garden: It is as Allah has pleased, there is no power save in Allah? If you consider me to be inferior to you in wealth and children (valadan)

    PakistaniAbroad: It should be clear now that vildanun then cannot be just ANY boy but Allah is talking about children/sons.

    Now let's approach (76:19) with this context and we get:

    76:19 and circle around on them everlasting sons/children, if thou seest them thou wouldst think them scattered pearls

    76:20 And when thou lookest, it is there thou wilt see a blessing/goodness/comfort and ease/happiness and an ownership/a possession/a kingdom great/large

    PakistaniAbroad: It has been established that there is no 'hanky panky' going around here. These are children who will never age, and only those with children know the Bliss of lil innocent kids who do not grow up to be brats or pesky teenagers.

    So in order to maintain contextual consistency, we can revisit 52:24 and understand this once that these boys are children.

    Further reading reveals that Allah already "took care of other needs" by mentioning:

    [at-Tur 52:20] They will recline (with ease) on Thrones (of dignity) arranged in ranks; and We shall join them to Companions, with beautiful big and lustrous eyes.

    PakistaniAbroad: Having said all this, let's keep in mind that not everything in the Qur'an is to be taken literally, especially the discription of the 'pleasures' of Heavn.

    [al-Baqarah 2:25] Give good news to those who believe and lead a righteous life that they will have gardens with flowing streams. When provided with a provision of fruits therein, they will say, "This is what was provided for us previously." Thus, they are given allegorical descriptions. They will have pure spouses therein, and they abide therein forever

    Allah Knows Best.

    ------------------------
    There is No Spoon

    [This message has been edited by PakistaniAbroad (edited February 28, 2002).]
    JaddoN kaddya jaloos ghareeba tay shehr ich choatalee lug gayee

    #2
    Are you looking for a partner or something?

    Well, if u are looking for boys in paradise then you might find them there as well.

    Comment


      #3
      Pakistaniabroad, I went through your post more than once.

      Are these eternal youths 'Like Scattered Pearls' your own family ?

      I don't think your verses mean that!!!
      You said..
      >>These are children who will never age, and only those with children know the Bliss of lil innocent kids who do not grow up to be brats or pesky teenagers. <<

      No disrespect intended, but that is exactly the kind of prey a paedophile will be loking for. Inncoent, unquestioning Kids!!

      Why should your Koran even go there?
      No other religious text goes into such details as far as I know.
      Like, christians do believe in Heaven, judgement day and all that, but also believe Jesus Chrsit will speak for them that day.
      Hindus ofcourse believe whatever they want to believe, but to my knowledge, there are no boys in heaven!!

      See, what I mean? Why should Koran touch on these point at all?

      Comment


        #4
        See, what I mean? Why should Koran touch on these point at all?
        I know exactly what you mean Andhra. It's all in our minds. When I see little children playing, I see innocence, a trip back to my carefree days and a hope.. when someone else sees them.. they see a reflection of their inner sickness.

        Wines and silks and gold are good, but human nature is such that it longs for the little things .. the innocence of a newborn/little kid is one of the many such delights.

        The Qur'an gives 'similitudes' to make us understand the 'fine pleasures'. From all that I understand there may not be such a physically elaborate scenario. Restudy 2:25 whenever you encounter 'descriptions' of the pleasures of Heaven.. as it's just to let us understand by citing examples from the realm of the physical. Who knows what metaphysical comforts and peace awaits the righteous.

        ------------------
        There is No Spoon
        JaddoN kaddya jaloos ghareeba tay shehr ich choatalee lug gayee

        Comment


          #5
          >>I know exactly what you mean Andhra. It's all in our minds. <<

          Well Pakabroad, if it is as simple as that, why are there no such descriptions of heaven in other religions?

          Don't you think a more likely explanation is that such practices are condoned in Arab societies then.

          'DESI' societies are the exception, you remember. Homosexualtiy is openly practiced in many other socieities including Greek, Roman, Persain etc.,

          Why, look at the reports coming out of Kandahar!!

          To my surprise, none of you took this line of argument.

          Comment


            #6
            To my surprise, none of you took this line of argument.
            Well our belief is that Qur'an is the Final Testament, it is for ALL generations and hence all subsequent cultures which may not be Arabic.

            At times there are similitudes to a comfort where the heat of the sun wouldn't bother the people in heaven. Interesting to note that post doomsday there may not BE a sun!!

            Hence to me at least it's clear that these are just allegorical descriptions.

            ------------------
            There is No Spoon
            JaddoN kaddya jaloos ghareeba tay shehr ich choatalee lug gayee

            Comment


              #7
              >>Hence to me at least it's clear that these are just allegorical descriptions.<<

              Well, Pakistaniabroad, you are contradicting the Mullahs now !!

              They regard Koran literally as the 'Truth' right?

              Well answer this one then.
              'Allegories' are open to interpretations.
              Yet you guys keep saying Koran is the revealed unalterable Word of GOd with complete instructions for life and after life.

              So if what you saying is correct and yet there are people who believe every word in Koran literally then,

              Even though the Koran is one book it can be followed and interpreted in different ways right?


              Comment


                #8
                Well, Pakistaniabroad, you are contradicting the Mullahs now !!
                Good. It means I'm succeeding in my Jihad

                'Allegories' are open to interpretations. Yet you guys keep saying Koran is the revealed unalterable Word of GOd with complete instructions for life and after life.
                We have discussed this before and I'll reiterate, the 'code of life' is for our 'salvation'. It gives IMPORTANT instructions around which we can structure our personal life and society.

                I guess Andhra, that Allah knew people would have the same question as yours.

                Here's how the glorious Qur'an answers it:

                [Al-Imran 3:7] He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.

                PakistaniAbroad: To me it becomes clear then that I shouldn't dwell too much on the allegorical descriptions of heaven. And also to be wary of those who, driven by the perversity in their hearts, try to give different meanings to the allegories.

                The reason for this post was to clarify the tilt that some people would like to give Qur'anic words used in the allegories. It was in no way an assertion of the truth or the absolute meaning of the verses, which is clear from my posting the translation of the meaning of 2:25 as a guideline.

                ------------------
                There is No Spoon
                JaddoN kaddya jaloos ghareeba tay shehr ich choatalee lug gayee

                Comment


                  #9
                  Andhra: Homosexualtiy is openly practiced in many other socieities including Greek, Roman, Persain etc.,

                  Well i know about the greeks and Romans used to practice it. Never heard about the persians. Backup please...

                  Comment


                    #10
                    >>Well i know about the greeks and Romans used to practice it. Never heard about the persians. Backup please...<<

                    Reza Khan, remember!!
                    You asked for it!!
                    http://www.worldarterotica.com/vinta...gay-ps04h.html

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Andhra:
                      >>Well i know about the greeks and Romans used to practice it. Never heard about the persians. Backup please...<<

                      Reza Khan, remember!!
                      You asked for it!!
                      http://www.worldarterotica.com/vinta...gay-ps04h.html

                      dude! seriously, what type of websites are you surfin?? shame shame!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        HaliCion,
                        My golden rule is 'Never Go Looking For Smut!!'.
                        THis one was accidental. Got it whole searching for the question reaised by Rezha Khan

                        Comment

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