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    Question for Christians

    Ibrahim says: Greetings of Peace to one and all

    Dear Christian brethren,


    {b] Which is your favorite Bible? [/b]

    I list below a partial list of the VERSIONS of the English Bible alone from which there are about 1400 other translations into other languages. Some 15 different translations in the Arabic language alone can be found in the middle east .


    1. AB Amplified Bible
    2. AS American Standard
    3. ANT The Authentic New Testament
    4. AAT An American Translation (Beck)
    5. AIV An Inclusive Version
    6. BNT Barclay New Testament
    7. CEV Contemporary English Version
    8. CNT Cassirer New Testament
    9. CTNT Centenary Translation of the New Testament
    10. CENT Common English New Testament
    11. CJB Complete Jewish Bible
    12. CLNT Concordant Literal New Testament
    13. CCB Christian Community Bible
    14. DHB Darby Holy Bible
    15. DRB Douay-Rheims Bible
    16. EDW The Emphatic Diaglott
    17. EVD English Version for the Deaf
    18. EBR The Emphasized Bible
    19. FSRB First Scofield Reference Bible
    20. GW God's Word
    21. HBME The Holy Bible in Modern English
    22. HBRV Holy Bible, Revised Version
    23. IB Interlinear Bible
    24. IV Inspired Version
    25. KJV King James Version
    26. KLNT Kleist-Lilly New Testament
    27. KTC Knox Translation
    28. LB Living Bible
    29. LBP Lamsa Bible
    30. MCT McCord's New Testament Translation
    31. MNT Moffat New Translation
    32. MRB Modern Reader's Bible
    33. MSNT The Modern Speech New Testament
    34. NEB New English Bible
    35. NLV New Life Version
    36. NNT Noli New Testament
    37. NAB New American Bible
    38. NAS New American Standard Version
    39. NBV New Berkeley Version
    40. NCV New Century Version
    41. NET New Evangelical Translation
    42. NIV New International Version
    43. NJB New Jerusalem Bible
    44. NKJ New King James Version
    45. NLT New Living Translation
    46. NRS New Revised Standard Version
    47. NSNT Norlie's Simplified New Testament
    48. NWT New World Translation
    49. PRS Phillips Revised Student Edition
    50. REB Revised English Bible
    51. RNT Riverside New Testament
    52. RSV Revised Standard Version
    53. RSVCE Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition
    54. SE Simple English
    55. SGAT An American Translation (Smith-Goodspeed)
    56. SARV Standard American Edition, Revised Version
    57. SNB Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible
    58. SSBE The Sacred Scriptures, Bethel Edition
    59. TBR The Bible Reader
    60. TDB The Dartmouth Bible
    61. TEV Today's English Version
    62. TJB The Jerusalem Bible
    63. TCNT The Twentieth Century New Testament
    64. TM The Message
    65. TNOAB The New Oxford Annotated Bible
    66. TRDB The Reader’s Digest Bible
    67. THS The Holy Scriptures
    68. TSBB The Soncino Books of the Bible
    69. TCRB Thompson Chain-Reference Bible
    70. TWGAAHB The Word of God Alive and Active-Holy Bible
    71. WAS Worrell New Testament
    72. WTNT William Tindale Newe Testament
    73. WET Wuest Expanded Translation
    74. WNT Williams New Testament
    75. YLR Young's Literal Translation, Revised Edition


    NOT A Complete List! which is still growing as we speak! So what would be your choice and why?

    All these versions in common use today, will appear imperfect still, when the fact is known that it was not a translation from the original, but merely revisions of the versions then in use.


    The message Given by God to the Israelites reads……….

    Proverbs 30:5-6

    "Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.


    Jeremiah 8:8 .


    "`How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

    Jeremiah 23:

    30. "Therefore," declares the LORD, "I am against the prophets who steal from one another words supposedly from me.

    31. Yes," declares the LORD, "I am against the prophets who wag their own tongues and yet declare, `The LORD declares.'

    32. Indeed, I am against those who prophesy false dreams," declares the LORD.


    Regards
    Ibrahim

    #2
    x. The Bible done in my mother tongue TRANSLATED from the Masoretic and Septuagint

    Because it's in my mother tongue and being a word-perfect type of Bible

    42. NIV New International Version

    Because it's non-denominational and being a word-perfect type of Bible

    I will sometimes use some of the others, including some on above list.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by The Old Man:
      x. The Bible done in my mother tongue TRANSLATED from the Masoretic and Septuagint

      Because it's in my mother tongue and being a word-perfect type of Bible
      Ibrahim says: Thanks old man, what do you call this book? And when was it published and by whom?

      42. NIV New International Version Because it's non-denominational and being a word-perfect type of Bible
      I will sometimes use some of the others, including some on above list.
      Ibrahim says: well, according to the bible soceity, you need to use at least 4 bibles to get some accuracy.

      regards
      Ibrahim

      Comment


        #4
        Ibrahim:

        It's called "Die Bybel" translated in 1933 and revised in 1953.

        Which bible society said that? It's nonsense to say it as you might be using 4 completely incorrect translations/versions. one good one is enough and then obviously it sometimes is nice comparing with other translations/versions.

        My wife for example likes "The Amplified Bible", "The Living Bible", above home language Bible, a home language version of "The Living Bible" called "Die Lewende Bybel", and the KJV. Definitely does not make her a better Bible exponent than myself.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by The Old Man:
          It's called "Die Bybel" translated in 1933 and revised in 1953.
          Ibrahim says: interesting! and this is according to you the only bible that is TRANSLATED from the Masoretic and Septuagint and being a word-perfect type of Bible ?

          I am also wondering why a word perfect Bible need to be revised in 1953?

          Since this is not in English, what is its closest equivalent in English or is this translated by the translators own understanding direct from Hebrew and Greek texts for OT and what did they use for NT?


          Which bible society said that?
          Ibrahim says This are published works ( In 1989 in the News Paper) by the Philippine Bible society which prints most of the bibles for all denominations in the Philippines according to their requests. In other words If you like certain verses to disappear they will get it done and certain verse to read in a certain manner they will do that too

          It's nonsense to say it as you might be using 4 completely incorrect translations/versions. one good one is enough and then obviously it sometimes is nice comparing with other translations/versions.
          Ibrahim says: You are not using your THINKING CAP old man!, you see translations are worded according to the translators understanding and choice of words and in order to get a firm understanding it is better to get a second opinion, this applies even in the medical field.

          In religion , If one is only able to work on translations and cannot understand the original language, then it is advisable to have at least four translators works at your disposal . ( this is even applicable for the Qur’an ) to come to a better understanding of what is being conveyed by God for each verse, since each translator may use a different choice of words to come to what is being conveyed in the original .

          That is why we can find many translations of the Qur’an or Bible and that is not a problem, the problem concerning the Bible has to do with versions

          I myself use 14 Bibles which includes Greek and Hebrew texts to compare certain verses that are being mistranslated or misconceived by Christians.

          BTW what in your opinion is the one Good one? NIV?

          Regards
          Ibrahim

          Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men.


          Comment


            #6
            i would assume that translation is updated as the language evolves..

            i dare not try to understand the version of bible which was used 400 years ago..

            same way.. any translation into Urdu from last century would spin my head around...

            The difference is that when we talk about Quran.. we say it is a translation of Quran - not english or urdu version of Quran - unlike when Bible is talked about.

            Muslims make a point of not saying this version or that version.. as translations get updated when language evolves.. but as we have the original print.. we have the opportunity to do so.. for Bible.. no original blueprint exist... so they do their best..

            Comment


              #7
              Can I also ask one question to our christian fellows?
              if yes, then
              Can any one tell me, which one denomination of christians is right?

              Comment


                #8
                black zero: Till you brought it up, I had never even thought of this: where is the original print? I would like to go see it sometime. Is it in SaudiArabia, Iraq? Where is it housed?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by OldLahori:
                  where is the original print? I would like to go see it sometime. Is it in audiArabia, Iraq? Where is it housed?
                  Ibrahim says: Greetings of Peace to one and to all

                  Here download it "free" that has been the ONLY orginal for the Qur'an no matter what time frame .

                  http://www.islamasoft.co.uk/products...oblequran.html

                  Comment


                    #10
                    First there were Jews that followed Christ,
                    then there were Christians, then two Popes;
                    one in Rome, one in Constantinople. Before
                    that, there were heresies coming from the
                    city of Alexandria, Egypt. There was a dis-
                    pute between Avignon, France and Rome as to
                    leadership. Then came Martin Luther and the
                    schism of protestant sects. From there it
                    really eggshelled. The question of which is
                    "right" is a debate that would elicit the
                    defense of each denomination by each member.
                    Then some one like Ibrahim would come along
                    and throw his insight into the mix. He seems
                    capable of arguing correctness into Islam, no
                    easy feat, that. It seems each religion is
                    complex enough for their respective devotees
                    to sort through. Not all are capable of it.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Ibrahim: Thank you for that URL. What I was asking for was reference to the oldest copy of Quran Shrief that is in existence. I thought that was what Blackzero was referring to. What is the oldest copy in existence? I am sure you would know. Any references? I am sure somebody must have done carbon dating to obtain an exact date. I really would like to go see the first copy wherever it is.

                      [This message has been edited by OldLahori (edited February 04, 2002).]

                      Comment


                        #12
                        QUOTE]Originally posted by OldLahori: What I was asking for was reference to the oldest copy of Quran Shrief that is in existence. [/quote]

                        Ibrahim says; Greetings of peace to one and all

                        You must be kidding or you simply do not understand what the Qur’an is for. You see revelations were compiled into book form to be used and as you know when people use them they tend to wear out over a period of time and new ones are copied and they too will have the same fate and new one are copied etc etc.. As such when I asked you to download one that is the current copy from the original which came from caliph Uthman’s time

                        What Muslims will normally do is they will retire used ones to mosques, who will eventually destroy them or tuck them in some corner and one such mosque that had a hoard ( which NO one knew about since it was piled up to rot in between the roof and ceiling ) of such over used Qur’ans and lose parchments from ancient times , which have been written over or used again and again , was recently discovered in Yemen which has now been documented by United Nations and is actually sold on CD by UN. This discovery led the Christian missionaries to claim that the Qur’an had been altered at the beginning of year 2000 to start their crusade on Islam in the millennium . (try to check out Atlantic magazine on this attack on islam in Jan 2000)

                        As for Museum pieces which were kept by kings or dignitaries, which finally ended up in museums you can try Topkapi museum in Istanbul which keeps a copy from Caliph Uthman's time for show. Unfortunately Qur’an’s are not meant for show or to be kept like the Jews or Sikhs do, with their holy scriptures.

                        I believe all your questions are answered, I will try and get URL ( if possible) for you dating last find in Yemen, some of which was dated by them to Caliph Uthman’s time.


                        Most of all , you are forgetting the fact that the Qur'an is also transfered by MEMORY. which is the first and formost method for revealed texts.


                        Regards
                        Ibrahim

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Ibrahim says: Greetings of Peace to one and all

                          For those intrested in viewing the oldest copies of Qur'an

                          Click here for the photo: http://www.quran.org.uk/ieb_1st_quran.htm
                          http://www.quran.org.uk/ieb_quran_topkapi.htm
                          http://www.quran.org.uk/ieb_quran_manuscripts.htm

                          The whole copy of Quranic manuscripts unearthed at Sanaa' Yemen are available at UNESCO website http://www.unesco.org/webworld/mdm/v.../present1.html


                          See Also, Quran still available, carbon tested and all, written during the times of the Prophet, as early as 7th century. AD http://www.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~history/Ext/Koran.html

                          And now, answering all the needs for the history of Holy Quran:
                          http://www.quran.org.uk/ieb_quran_history.htm http://www.quran.org.uk/index.html#menu

                          For Free Qur'an and Qur'an for the Blind
                          http://www.geocities.com/zcdeen/islam005.htm

                          Comment


                            #14
                            OldLahori: What I was asking for was reference to the oldest copy of Quran Shrief that is in existence.
                            You mean to say the original is not available but only copies? The Qu'ran at use today can't be checked with the original original book?

                            Talk about hypocrisy by some when discussing the originality of old Hebrew and Greek texts used for translating the Bible from....

                            [This message has been edited by The Old Man (edited February 05, 2002).]

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by TOMASSO:
                              The question of which is "right" is a debate that would elicit the defense of each denomination by each member.
                              Correct, TOMASSO. Actually ALL denominations are in some way wrong, as the Body of Christ does not belong to any specific denomination.

                              ANY Christian denomination that claims to be the ONLY correct way to Jesus Christ, is definitely wrong. Normally the reason they give for being the only correct way, is the error in their doctrine.

                              Comment

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