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    Is Occult Recognized in Islam?

    Is Occult Recognized in Islam? I don't mean sanctioned. I remmeber reading about it Kipling's Kim where the Pathan character arranges a sorceress for Kim.
    As for Hinduism, Tantra is recognized though not approved.
    Infact one school holds that Tantriks worship Lord Shiva.
    In our parts we call it 'Chetabadi' or 'BaanaMati'.
    Like, the Tantrik makes a doll to represents and when he twists it, baaam!! you start suffering

    #2
    andhra

    I believe that there is the mention of occult in Islamic texts, there are some accounts of people trying witch craft on the prophet, and even in Quran there are surahs which mention witchcraft, surah falaq for instance.
    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... he is gone.

    Comment


      #3
      So what does Islam say about such things?
      Where are these Evil Powers in relation to Allah.
      I remember as a kid going to a Mosque and the Mullah chanting something and blowing wind through his lips on my face.
      I had a fever after being scared of something you see!!
      I\Are such practices OK in Pakistan?

      Comment


        #4
        Submission to Allah's will would seem to
        suggest opposition to the occult. The Big
        Three religions all speak against it. If a
        subject needs thoroughly addressed on moral
        grounds and is found to be ruled on by the
        major monothiestic faiths in a similiar
        fashion, it could be emphasized no better.
        The claim of the existence of jinn is one
        that appears only in Islam. Do these beings
        not predate Muslim history?

        Comment


          #5
          >>The Big
          Three religions all speak against it<<

          Big ?

          TOMASSO how do you arrive at how BIG a religion is?
          Anyway what are your 3 BIG religions?

          Comment


            #6
            its recognonized in Islam.. but its not allowed... its not a good idea...

            its intervention in the system of Allah..

            ------------------
            .::. ¢¼ ﷲ ﻼﺃ ﷲﺃ ﻶ ¢¼ .::.

            Comment


              #7
              The Big Three is a take on the three major
              automakers in the US, historically. These
              are meant by me to be Islam, Judaism, and
              Christianity, which are linked in origin.
              The prospect that an Indian would get his
              undies in a bunch over my statement occured
              to me. The above beliefs regarding the title
              of the thread are prescient because they
              exist, in part, as a reaction against the
              occult. Hinduism is a very complex religion
              that requires much knowledge to be able to
              comment about. Your part of the world is
              where Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism meet. It
              has it's own dynamic apart from the Middle-
              East, where the "western big three" meet.
              Please allow that words sometimes do great
              injustice to what may be derived from them.
              I try to take into consideration cultural
              nuances as I communicate with Guppies, or
              anyone for that matter. Clashes of civiliza-
              tions can occur in subtle ways, it seems. I
              do not wish to clash, but acknowledge it will
              happen occasionally, as a matter of course.

              Comment


                #8
                That's what I guessed. No, I am not upset. No real Hindu would be
                Anyway if the big 3 are Religions it is better to call Hinduism a way of life.!!
                The reason I started the topic is this. Tantra is the Netherlands of Hinduism few outsiders are aware of. Certain Hindu Gods like Shiva and Kali are acceptable to them and their rituals are shrouded in secret always.
                Like their beliefs are closet beliefs.
                I was wondering if there is any such sect in other religions.

                Comment


                  #9
                  The claim of the existence of jinn is one that appears only in Islam. Do these beings not predate Muslim history?
                  Ibrahim says: greetings of peace to one and all

                  Ibrahim says: Hi Tomasso

                  I am afraid your understanding is based on what you learnt as a Christian whilst failing to realize that there was only ONE SINGLE human creation by God, hence, When Adam (pbuh) was created as a MUSLIM, the history of Islam began?

                  I am sure you guess it. Thus the creation of human beings was much later then Angels and I am sure you believe in angels and in between those creations were the Jinns , just as we cannot see the angels so too are the jinn’s beyond our sight.
                  As to their existence not being known in the Bible is due to the works of scribes and translators of the current Bible
                  For instance when we read

                  Lev 9: 31. "`Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.

                  Lev 20: 6. "`I will set my face against the person who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute himself by following them, and I will cut him off from his people.

                  2 Kings 21: 4. He built altars in the temple of the LORD, of which the LORD had said, "In Jerusalem I will put my Name."

                  5. In both courts of the temple of the LORD, he built altars to all the starry hosts.

                  6. He sacrificed his own son in the fire, practiced sorcery and divination, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the LORD, provoking him to anger.

                  Ibrahim says: hence God did convey the same message to the Jews as found in the Qur’an but today it has been altered to read as above .

                  The mediums in all cases consulted the jinns to do their works.

                  Hinduism is a very complex religion that requires much knowledge to be able to comment about.
                  Ibrahim says: actually it is not, Hinduism is more an empty vessel which can accommodate anything and everything into its fold in its current form.

                  BUT it did not originate as such, its origin is actually the teachings of Prophet Adam to Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) and his sons, which has been corrupted to look totally different. This can be proven today from their own scriptures.

                  The reason for its complete new look is same as how the current bible has been given its new look by altering the names and language of origin. And due to the length of time the corruption is far much greater then in the Bible.

                  Best regards
                  Ibrahim

                  We are all travelers on the same journey – but some have better road maps!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    So what does Islam say about such things?
                    Ibrahim says : let us read Qur'an

                    2: 102 They followed what the evil ones gave out (falsely) against the power of Solomon; the blasphemers were not Solomon but the evil ones teaching men magic and such things as came down at Babylon to the angels Harut and Marut. But neither of these taught anyone (such things) without saying: "We are only for trial so do not blaspheme." They learned from them the means to sow discord between man and wife. But they could not thus harm anyone except by Allah's permission. And they learned what harmed them not what profited them. And they knew that the buyers of (magic) would have no share in the happiness of the Hereafter. And vile was the price for which they did sell their souls if they but knew!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Ibrahim, since you are "adept" at quoting verse, could you give examples of Qu'ranic scripture that outlines the idea that the original belief of Adam was that of a Muslim? In addition to that, could you quote the Qu'ran in relation to how the ancient people of northern India etc. were part of that early inclusion to the "real" version of what you seem to understand as the only religion? P.S. I was just waiting for you to take the bait and post here. Do you have any further historic knowledge of the occult in the ancient world?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by TOMASSO: Ibrahim, since you are "adept" at quoting verse, could you give examples of Qu'ranic scripture that outlines the idea that the original belief of Adam was that of a Muslim?
                        Ibrahim says: Greetings of Peace to one and all

                        My friend, you do not need Quotes from Qur’an to ascertain this, you only need to use your brains. You see a Muslim means one who submits to God’s will . You will read about how Adam (pbuh) submitted to God’s will in the (Bible) genesis too

                        In addition to that, could you quote the Qu'ran in relation to how the ancient people of northern India etc. were part of that early inclusion to the "real" version of what you seem to understand as the only religion?
                        Ibrahim says: when in Rome follow the Romans and quote and speak their tongue ONLY or you may end up being mocked to death , meaning If you want to argue about Hinduism it is useless talking about what the Qur’an says , same scenario for discussions with Christians, it will be rejected outright. . So when I talk about Hinduism I use their books, which are the Veda’s, Smrti’s and Upanishads. Not the Qur’an or Bible. In fact , The Qur’an will not talk about the Hindus, since they have become pagans at the time of its revelations and Hindus will be referred to as “pagans” only and no detail info will be found about them in the Qur’an or Bible.

                        P.S. I was just waiting for you to take the bait and post here.
                        Ibrahim says: Don’t try to bait me, man you might end up being hooked and roasted , If God so willed.

                        Do you have any further historic knowledge of the occult in the ancient world?
                        Ibrahim says try the net, you will find much info, I deal with scriptures, the good kind not the evil, spread by jinns and man

                        Regards
                        Ibrahim

                        Knock and it will be opened to you


                        Comment


                          #13
                          Ibrahim you said...
                          >>If you want to argue about Hinduism it is useless talking about what the Qur’an says , same scenario for discussions with Christians, it will be rejected outright. . So when I talk about Hinduism I use their books, which are the Veda’s, Smrti’s and Upanishads<<

                          Before that you said...
                          >>Ibrahim says: actually it is not, Hinduism is more an empty vessel which can accommodate anything and everything into its
                          fold in its current form.
                          BUT it did not originate as such, its origin is actually the teachings of Prophet Adam to Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh)
                          and his sons, which has been corrupted to
                          look totally different. This can be proven today from their own scriptures. <<

                          I am glad you came as far as knowing the names of Vedas and Upanishads

                          Now, if you could tell me where in those sacred texts do you find a mention of Adam or Abraham or Moses, I will be very glad.
                          Infact if you believe that all Humanity sparng from one man namely Adam who procreated with a creation from his thigh bone, namely eve(The first instance of Human Cloning!!) then you are in effect saying all Humanity is a result of incest right?
                          Now empty vessel Hinduism may be it is not Stupid by any means
                          We believe in no such things. Now come back and tell me whare your Adam teaches any thing to Hindus via Vedas!!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Andhra:
                            .....Now come back and tell me whare your Adam teaches any thing to Hindus via Vedas!!
                            If Christians after Jesus departure from world can claim that he was son of God, how on earth could Hindu scripture be safe from distortion? how would that be unmodified to "suit" social demands?

                            ------------------
                            May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

                            Comment


                              #15
                              >>how on earth could Hindu scripture be safe from distortion?<<

                              This is the most ridiculous assertion I came across.
                              There is absolutely no mention in any Hindu scriptures about Abraham, Moses, Adam , Jesus or Mohammed!!
                              For you information the 3 middle eastern religions have no influence whatsoever on Hinduism's development.
                              The only Religion that had any theological disputes with Hinduism was Buddhism and the dispute was settled to our satsifaction and Buddhism left India!!
                              By the way since you seem insistent that every other religion's scriptures are 'Distorted', please remember that Koran was not written down in complete until years after Mohammed's death. Who knows how many distortions took place?

                              Comment

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