need comments on this...

[FlameZz FlamZz InSide Find all posts View Profile Close FlameZz]

Assalam-o-alikum..

I just read it in some book, and the source wasnt mentioned there, Its in urdu, but ill try to translate in english too..


"Muselman jis koom ka Huliya ( fashion ) ikhtiyar kerainge, woh Kiyamat ke din ussi koom ke sath uthaye jaygeingey"


"Muslims on the day of resserection will be broght up with the nation, whom look(fastion) they will adapt"

can anyone try to find its source and quote it here. and also your comments on this verse..

Thanks



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.::. FlameZz of Love .::.

[armughal The unReal kingBu Abdullah Find all posts View Profile Close armughal]

this not a verse from the Quran....
its a Hadith....
i do not have the exact narration (or the translation) nor the source of the hadith....

but it is a *sahih hadith* maybe someone else can give u the exact source....

[FlameZz FlamZz InSide Find all posts View Profile Close FlameZz]

thanks for the information.



means we should't be copying western culture and their atiitude, their Roshan khiyali???

am i right??

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.::. FlameZz of Love .::.

[sadeyes_neverlie Find all posts View Profile Close sadeyes_neverlie]

Originally posted by FlameZz:

means we should't be copying western culture and their atiitude, their Roshan khiyali???

am i right??

I dont think following anybodies culture is related with this. Because if tomorrow the west embraces islam, and the people of west become more faithful than we are, then we will have to follow their culture to get salvation ?

And if it is regarding strictly the looks even then the same conditions apply.

Practically speaking, most of the cultural norms donot change with the change in religion. For example, the cultures of all four provinces of pakistan still allow music and dancing, an act considered unislamic by most of the muslims. Same is for the dress code.

As per my observation, most of the people dont follow the actions by west just because the are the actions of west. They follow it because they are attracted to that act in some way or another, so they will follow those actions chahay woh west kay hoon ya east kay........aur jis roshan khayali ki aap baat kar rahay ho us say to waisay hi bachna chahiyay, west, east, north ya south say koi faraq nahin parta.

[FactFinder Find all posts View Profile Close FactFinder]

Originally posted by sadeyes_neverlie:
Because if tomorrow the west embraces islam, and the people of west become more faithful than we are, then we will have to follow their culture to get salvation ?

Islam is a deen. It has a culture of its own. Have you ever seen a western Muslim? If so, what is his culture?

Practically speaking, most of the cultural norms donot change with the change in religion. For example, the cultures of all four provinces of pakistan still allow music and dancing, an act considered unislamic by most of the muslims. Same is for the dress code.

The Pakistani culture is not Islamic. It is traditional and is from jahiliyah, with due respect.

As per my observation, most of the people dont follow the actions by west just because the are the actions of west. They follow it because they are attracted to that act in some way or another, so they will follow those actions chahay woh west kay hoon ya east kay........aur jis roshan khayali ki aap baat kar rahay ho us say to waisay hi bachna chahiyay, west, east, north ya south say koi faraq nahin parta.

No! It is sunnah of the west. No one follows something because he/she likes it. In 99% cases it is to replicate the west.



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Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.

[Guest Close Maniac]

Tashabuh Bil Kuffar.

Yes the hadith is SAHIH and yes you will be brought up with the Kuffar if you act like the Kuffar.

That is certainly not something to look forward to.

[sadeyes_neverlie Find all posts View Profile Close sadeyes_neverlie]

[quote]Originally posted by FactFinder:

Islam is a deen. It has a culture of its own. Have you ever seen a western Muslim? If so, what is his culture?

What is your defination of culture in general and islamic culture in particular?

[b]

The Pakistani culture is not Islamic. It is traditional and is from jahiliyah, with due respect.
[b]

That is why i said 'Practically speaking" because all i could see around me is muslims following the cultures of their parts of the world. Their is no culture that they unanimaously follow.

No! It is sunnah of the west. No one follows something because he/she likes it. In 99% cases it is to replicate the west.

Well, i started that with " as per my observation" so i formed an opinion based on that. Maybe u have observed the opposite and therefore have a different opinion.

And if that is to replicate west without any like or dislike, as you say, then why dont anybody here follows their honesty, truthfulness, hardwork etc that are fundemental parts of their societies. People listen to western music only because they like it and if anybody wears torn jeans then its only because he thinks that he looks cool that way.

[quote]Originally posted by Maniac:

Yes the hadith is SAHIH and yes you will be brought up with the Kuffar if you act like the Kuffar.

That is certainly not something to look forward to.

This is exactly what my interpretation is. It means that if we will follow the way of kuffar we will be brought up with kuffar and if we act like righteous then we will be brought up with the righteous.

What i disagree with is the defination of the way of kuffar which has been translated as the west here by some people although there are more kuffar to the east and noth of us than in the west. The ways of kuffar , in my opinion means, the way of kufr, so everything that kuffar do is not included in that. Its only their wrong deeds that must not be followed.

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".........because sad eyes never lie"

[This message has been edited by sadeyes_neverlie (edited January 27, 2002).]

[FactFinder Find all posts View Profile Close FactFinder]

Originally posted by sadeyes_neverlie:
What is your defination of culture in general and islamic culture in particular?

Islamic culture is drawn from the quran and sunnah. General culture is the regional culture. For example, many of the cultures in Pakistan are derived from Hindus.

Well, i started that with " as per my observation" so i formed an opinion based on that. Maybe u have observed the opposite and therefore have a different opinion.

Yes, I have seen western Muslims who make me feel ashamed. We were born in Islam and have taken everything for granted. They struggle, gain knowledge and then convert. What they follow is true shariah.

The ways of kuffar , in my opinion means, the way of kufr, so everything that kuffar do is not included in that. Its only their wrong deeds that must not be followed.

Sorry, you have lost me there. Kufr is denial of existance of Allah or knowingly refusing to follow His dictates. Do you have some other definition?



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Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.

[FlameZz FlamZz InSide Find all posts View Profile Close FlameZz]

interesting comments..

thanks a lot..

from your comment what i have exracted is that Following other nations culture blindly on basis of liking, and not judging them by Islamic perspective, is indeed a SIN.

and the culture involved, all the customs, deeds, way of life, way of celeberations, social life, business methodology etc...

and Finally ISLAM teaches us complete way of living, it has its own distinct culture, and we need not to follow anyone's way of living.

Thats what Prophet Muhammad (SAW)(PBUH) is teaching us in this SAHIH HADITH.

MAY ALLAH GUIDE US, and give us the wisdom to follow what Prophet Muhammad (SAW) has teached us. Ameeen...

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.::. FlameZz of Love .::.

[PakistaniAbroad The Devil's Advocate Find all posts View Profile Close PakistaniAbroad]

What passes for 'Islamic' culture is actually only 9th century Arabia culture.

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This Space For Rent

[FactFinder Find all posts View Profile Close FactFinder]

Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:
What passes for 'Islamic' culture is actually only 9th century Arabia culture.

Have you ever considered becoming a performer on stage?



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Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.

[FactFinder Find all posts View Profile Close FactFinder]

Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:
What passes for 'Islamic' culture is actually only 9th century Arabia culture.

Do you deny the dictates of the Qur'an and Sunnah?



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Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.

[sadeyes_neverlie Find all posts View Profile Close sadeyes_neverlie]

Originally posted by FlameZz:


Following other nations culture blindly on basis of liking, and not judging them by Islamic perspective, is indeed a SIN.

This is exactly what i'm trying to say (except for the sin part). Judge a culture through islamic perspective, and then if you find it or any of its part according to islam, follow it. But for Gods sake dont call any culture as kufr only because it belongs to the west, because as factfinder has admitted himself that
"The Pakistani culture is not Islamic. It is traditional and is from jahiliyah, with due respect." and
"many of the cultures in Pakistan are derived from Hindus."
So why say we shouldnt follow western culture.....can we follow the culture of chinese or japanese or hindus or even punjabis or sindhies???? I know your answer will be a 'no'. So please dont go after west just for the sake of blaming. Morally speaking, west is better than us. Atleast they dont do what they think is wrong. And we do all wrong deeds knowingly.


What i believe is that islam is a complete way of life. Its a deen. So what it does is give us principles to follow. If any act of any nation is according to that principle we can follow it and if its not we shouldnt. As said by Mohammed Rasoolallah SAW "Achi baat momin ki gumshuda poonji hai. Jahan usay milty hai woh sambhaal laita hai.'

[Khilafah1422 Find all posts View Profile Close Khilafah1422]

Assalamo alaikum

I read the posts before this one and I can say that fact finder has made good comments.

What i think is essential is that the word 'culture' should be defined. This explanation is universal and it is a rational judgement.

As we can see all over the world that not all socities are the same. They differ in many ways and the major elemet being the culture. Culture is a set of thoughts and ideas about man, life and the universe. Each culture has it's own view point about the purpose of life and the culture has it's own values and standards. Also culture has it's criteria for actions so for example in America the criteria for actions are that they should involve benefit and if they do not (i.e. they cause harm) they should be left. Hence the free mixing, fornication etc... The view point of life in America is that man should decide his own purpose of life i.e. he has a choice because he is free where as the muslim has a clearly defined objective in life i.e. to live his entire life in accordance with the Islamic laws (ibadah, social, economic, morals, educational, transactions et...) and the measure that decides his actions are NOT how much benefit he achieves rather it is if that particular action is Halaal or Haraam i.e. even if fighting jihad inflicts harm upon him he still fights when an enemy attacks him, as Allah (swt) says "fight those who fight you" .

To further illustrate the point, capatalism (system in the west) says that the separation of religion and politics should be maintained ( basis of Western culture) whereas Islam does not recognise that idea because it does not see the difference in praying and ruling as both actions are guided by Islam(as it is a complete deen). So any culture which is not islamic should not be adopted as it emanates from a creed which contradicts the Islamic creed.

As far as the terminolgy 'the west' is concerned, then it merely means that currently they have an alien culture to that of Islam and apparently so do all other islamic countries. But when one day, as promised, when Islam encapsulates the world (even the west) then we would no longer use this term as it would be inconsistent with thr reality.

When a culture dominates a society (i.e. people live and act according to certain thoughts) then the people living there become affected by the predominant ideas and emotions. Hence, the muslims that act un-islamically are not 100% to blame as they are the victims of a corrupt society with a kufr culture.

What needs to take place is that the Islamic culture needs to dominate the minds and actions of the muslims so that we, as muslims, can fulfill our aim in life.

Salaam

[TOMASSO Find all posts View Profile Close TOMASSO]

America was never founded as a Christian
country, it was a political developement of
the Enlightenment way of thinking. America
tolerated many religious creeds as well as a
lack of them. Kuffar are total unbelievers
or pagans, to my understanding. The rise of
Islam as a global power is not something the
west will tolerate. The Kaliphate will be
resisted if it is attempted by all non-Muslim
states to their utmost ability.