Canines

[CocoNut]

I am a lover of a select few animals and one of them happens to be dogs (siberian huskies to be specific).

Now I wonder why are these obedient creatures considered dirty/na-paak?

I've been taught that dogs are next to pigs and should not be kept as pets unless neccessary for guarding purposes. These creatures are said to be na-paak. Why is it so?

Any Islamic historical reference to this as to why such a friendly creature is considered so ghastly?

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Jitna Diya Sarkar Nay Mujko, Itni Meri Auqat Nahi, Yeh Saab Tumhara Karam Hai Aqa, Mujh Mein Aisi Koi Baat Nahin.


Love happens once . . .

[Maniac]

While Allah gives reason for a lot of things, he does not give reason for all the things.

From my conversations with a learned brother ive come to know that the Dog's napaki is probably one such thing we donot know about.

Rest assured since Allah and his Apostle(SAW) have forbidden us to keep a dog as a pet that is what we must do.

Why is it forbidden ? Allah knows....i love dogs too but cant do much bout it. Since its forbidden i dont keep one as a pet.

[Ibrahim]

Originally posted by CocoNut: Any Islamic historical reference to this as to why such a friendly creature is considered so ghastly?

Ibrahim says; Salaams to all

Dogs are equated to pigs because some people were transformed to such animals in the past.

The Islamic reference for this is

5: 60 Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah? Those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine those who worshipped Evil; these are (many times) worse in rank and far more astray from the even Path!

The reference to dogs is not mentioned in the Qur’an or hadiths in particular as this transformation would have taken place at the time of Prophet Nuh or Prophet Ibrahim (pbuT) and hence we have to refer to sacred texts (although corrupted in order to understand why) at that period.

Here are some;

1) The Aztec believe that the fourth sun, “Nahui-Atl” ( "Four-Water,") ended in a gigantic flood that lasted for 52 years. Only one man and one woman survived, sheltered in a huge cypress. But they were changed into dogs by Tezcatlipoca, whose orders they had disobeyed

2) "And whilst not coming into contact with Sudras and remains of food; for this Gharma is he that shines yonder, and he is excellence, truth, and light; but woman, the Sudra, the dog, and the black bird (the crow), are untruth: he should not look at these, lest he should mingle excellence and sin, light and darkness, truth and untruth." -- Satapatha Brahmana 14:1:1:31.

3) "People here whose behaviour is pleasant can expect to enter a pleasant womb, like that of a woman of the Brahmin, the Ksatriya, or the Vaisya caste. But people of foul behaviour can expect to enter the foul womb, like that of a dog, a pig, or an outcaste woman." -- Chandogya Upanisad 5:10:7.

Hope that helps

Was salaam
Ibrahim

[CocoNut]

Oh no way!
Dogs were humans too?!
The wrath of Allah is clearly shown about pigs and apes. Then why not of Dogs? What was the fault/sin of the 'dogs'?

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Jitna Diya Sarkar Nay Mujko, Itni Meri Auqat Nahi, Yeh Saab Tumhara Karam Hai Aqa, Mujh Mein Aisi Koi Baat Nahin.


Love happens once . . .

[Maniac]

Qouting from other religions scriptures doesnt do much good in my opinion Ibraheem.

Dogs are na-paak and thats that. Who are we to question how or why. When we arnt given the information in our religious texts we dont really need to go outta our ways to look for it. If its not given then its not needed...

[Ibrahim]

Originally posted by CocoNut:
Oh no way! Dogs were humans too?!The wrath of Allah is clearly shown about pigs and apes. Then why not of Dogs? What was the fault/sin of the 'dogs'?

Ibrahim says: salaams to all

Brother Coconut, if such things were mentioned don’t you think Muslims would have known them. So, many things that were given in the past need not be repeated again for the Muslims under Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) since it was not necessary as such traditions were already prevalent amongst them. This is similar to circumcision and you will not find it mentioned in the Qur’an as it was already an established tradition amongst the descendents of Prophet Ibrahim (as)

On the other hand you can have it your way coconut, since it is obvious you do not like it as such.

But see if you can understand anything from this hadiths

Sahih Muslim Hadith Hadith 5246 Narrated by Aisha

Gabriel (peace be upon him) made a promise with Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) to come at a definite hour; that hour came but he did not visit him. And there was in his hand (in the hand of Allah's Apostle) a staff. He threw it from his hand and said: Never has Allah or His messengers (angels) ever broken their promise. Then he cast a glance (and by chance) found a puppy under his cot and said: Aisha, when did this dog enter here ? She said: By Allah, I don't know. He then commanded and it was turned out. Then Gabriel came and Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said to him: You promised me and I waited for you, but you did not come, whereupon he said: It was the dog in your house which prevented me (to come), for we (angels) do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture.

Sahih Muslim Hadith Hadith 1032 Narrated by Abu Dharr

The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: When any one of you stands for prayer and there is a thing before him equal to the back of the saddle that covers him and in case there is not before him (a thing) equal to the back of the saddle, his prayer would be cut off by (passing of an) ass, woman, and black dog. I said: O AbuDharr, what feature is there in a black dog which distinguishes it from the red dog and the yellow dog? He said: O son of my brother, I asked the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) as you are asking me, and he said: The black dog is a devil.

Ibrahim says Now reread the corrupted texts from other scriptures and see how much there is in common. And then re read the ayat from the Qur’an if misinterpreted can bring about the hindu understanding to reincarnations, which in my view is why hindus ended up believing in reincarnation as such the corrupted texts found herein.

Was salaam
Ibrahim

understanding is forever unattainable but is the only quest worth serious attention

[CocoNut]

Ok, these hadiths give me more than enuff justification that a dog is not permissable. But I wanna ask about the black dog; why is it considered a devil?

and the passing of an ass/donkey why does it break the prayer?

I mean i understand why a woman could break a man's prayer because men might look upon her but the black dog and ass I'm a bit weary about.

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Jitna Diya Sarkar Nay Mujko, Itni Meri Auqat Nahi, Yeh Saab Tumhara Karam Hai Aqa, Mujh Mein Aisi Koi Baat Nahin.


Love happens once . . .

[Ibrahim]

[quote]Originally posted by CocoNut:

Originally posted by CocoNut: But I wanna ask about the black dog; why is it considered a devil?

Ibrahim says: salaams to all

Understanding hadiths is not always easy, due to limited info and there could be other hadiths that may put more light on it that I am unaware of, for now. So I cannot give an answer based on verifiable evidence. ( a requirement in Islam)

Now there are a number of things that you must understand in life as a Muslim.

al-Ma'idah 5:101 O ye who believe! ask not questions about things which if made plain to you may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur'an is being revealed they will be made plain to you: Allah will forgive those: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Forbearing.

102 Some people before you did ask such questions and on that account lost their faith.

103 It was not Allah Who instituted (superstitions like those of) a slit-ear she-camel or a she-camel let loose for free pasture or idol sacrifices for twin-births in animals or stallion-camels freed from work; it is blasphemers who invent a lie against Allah but most of them lack wisdom.

2) One must be competent enough to understand certain information before it may be revealed to us. Meaning a grade one student might have difficultly trying to comprehend a grade 6 student ( the reason should be obvious)

Thus we may understand this by reading

10: 46 Whether We show thee (realized in thy lifetime) some part of what We promise them or We take thy soul (to Our Mercy) (before that) in any case to Us is their return: ultimately Allah is witness to all that they do.

Ibrahim says meaning as we progress in life we may learn new things and even Allah (swt) will ensure that some of the hidden matters are revealed to different generations due to the level of understanding they may have reached at that time frame but kept hidden to other earlier generations .

Thus when we read black dog being the devil, we should not allow our brains to construct upon it and end up thinking Black is evil or all black dogs are evil and run into superstitious behaviors like black cats are evil etc

What I believe that hadith is conveying is that, the devil utilizes such animals more since other texts found in other scriptures talks about black birds as being evil too.

In other words Black or darkness is a favorite color for the devil and we can understand this better by reading

113:3 From the mischief of Darkness as it overspreads

Ibrahim says: ever wonder why man and woman become very comfortable to go out to get drunk, gamble, commit sins mostly at night? Thus the devil is active in the dark and may use animals that are black , would be the correct understanding in my view.

Allah (swt) knows best.

and the passing of an ass/donkey why does it break the prayer?

Ibrahim says; I am sorry cannot tell you exactly why but maybe this might help.

Fiqh-us-Sunnah Fiqh 4.127

On Hearing the Sound of a Cock, a Donkey, and a Dog

Abu Hurairah reported that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said, -Seek refuge with Allah against the devil when you hear the sound of a donkey, for it sees the devil, and when you hear a cock, pray to Allah for His bounty, for it sees an angel.' (Bukhan and Muslim)

Abu Daw'ud's version reads, "When you hear the barking of dogs and braying of donkeys during the night seek the refuge of Allah from them, for they see what you don't."

Was salaam
Ibrahim

18: 7 That which is on earth We have made but as a glittering show for the earth in order that We may test them as to which of them are best in conduct.

[Munni]

We keep a dog in the yard to guard our property. Dogs can be kept for but few reasons. Hunting and herding being two.

I can tell you from personal experience that after reading the hadith about dogs seeing things that humans cant, I can honestly say that it made a lot of sense, to my surprise!

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Learn to love yourself, then learn to love one-another

[PakistaniAbroad]

Once again.. Biblical Sunnism at it's best.

Allah NEVER declared dogs unclean animals who are to be killed!

Finding NO prohibition for keeping dogs in the Qur'an, Allah's Final Testament, people rush to their Judaeo-Christian sources and other fabricated traditions which borrow heavily from Judaeo-Christian sources in the first place (Abu Huraira was a Jewish convert).

Can anyone find ANY logic in shunning dogs as pets? You burst out laughing at the 'black dog' Hadith accounts. One says it's the black dog that needs to be killed, Others say it's to be spared all others are to be killed

I pray to Allah that none of the advocates of killing of dogs ever go blind. I assure you, no fatwa-giver maulana in this world will help you but these faithful creatures of Allah will be your eyesight in times of need even if you have always condemned them to death.

When you are home, these dogs guard you. You kick them, they still love you. Faithful as ever. Allah has made them such, yet we have dog-hating traditions narrated by none other than someone going by the nickname Abu Huraira which translates into.. *drumrolls please* "Father of Cats"..

For anyone declaring Dogs haraam, fasten your seatbelts and read the following:

Pickthall

[al-Ma'idah 5:4] They ask thee (O Muhammad) what is made lawful for them. Say: (all) good things are made lawful for you. And those beasts and birds of prey which ye have trained as hounds are trained, ye teach them that which Allah taught you; so eat of that which they catch for you and mention Allah's name upon it, and observe your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is swift to take account.

Muhammad Assad's Explanation:

The term min al-jawarih mukallibin signifies "trained like a [hunting] dog", and is applied to every animal used for hunting - a hound, a falcon, a cheetah etc.

PakistaniAbroad: It is clear that Allah declares halaal what beasts of prey, which includes hounds, catch for us as we train them. Tell me, how can an animal be 'najas' or 'napaak' if by Allah's order the prey they catch is Halaal for us?

Another myth is that where there is a dog there is no 'Rehmat' of Allah.

How sad that once again people have not read The Qur'an.

Let's read how Allah bestowed his mercy and help on the People of the Cave and among them was their companion a dog.

[al-Kahf 18:10] When the young men fled for refuge to the Cave and said: Our Lord! Give us mercy from Thy presence, and shape for us right conduct in our plight.

PakistaniAbroad: The young men fled for refuge and asked for Allah's mercy.

[al-Kahf 18:13] We narrate unto thee their story with truth. Lo! they were young men who believed in their Lord, and We increased them in guidance.

PakistaniAbroad: Allah tells us that these young men were believers and guided by none other than Allah.

[al-Kahf 18:15] These, our people, have chosen (other) gods beside Him though they bring no clear warrant (vouchsafed) to them. And who doth greater wrong than he who inventeth a lie concerning Allah?

[al-Kahf 18:16] And when ye withdraw from them and that which they worship except Allah, then seek refuge in the Cave; your Lord will spread for you of His mercy and will prepare for you a pillow in your plight

PakistaniAbroad: Here comes Allah's promise of mercy. Their prayers are answered and Allah's 'Rehmat' approaches them.

[al-Kahf 18:18] And thou wouldst have deemed them waking though they were asleep, and We caused them to turn over to the right and the left, and their dog stretching out his paws on the threshold. If thou hadst observed them closely thou hadst assuredly turned away from them in flight, and hadst been filled with awe of them

PakistaniAbroad: it's clear that the dog was with them.

Muhammad Assad's Explanation of the words in italics

[i]an acciedental onlooker would immediately have felt the mystic, awe inspiring aura that surrounded the Men of the Cave, and would have become conscious that he stood before God's elect[i] (Tabari, Razi, Ibn Kathir, Baydawi)

PakistaniAbroad: Please note how Allah caused them to turn left and right while their dog was still with them. The presence of a dog didn't get in the way of Allah's Mercy for the dog's companions.

And as for anyone arguing that the dog wasn't part of them, here are Allah's verses:

[al-Kahf 18:22] (Some) will say: They were three, their dog the fourth, and (some) say: Five, their dog the sixth, guessing at random; and (some) say: Seven, and their dog the eighth. Say (O Muhammad): My Lord is Best Aware of their number. None knoweth them save a few. So contend not concerning them except with an outward contending, and ask not any of them to pronounce concerning them.

PakistaniAbroad: See how Allah clears out things in his magnificent Book. Yet we refuse to study and learn from it.

Please, rid yourself of the fabricated traditions and corrupted Judaeo-Christian scriptures and turn to the Qur'an, Allah's true message and Allah's true religion.

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This Space For Rent

[CocoNut]

Now I'm really gettin confused.

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Jitna Diya Sarkar Nay Mujko, Itni Meri Auqat Nahi, Yeh Saab Tumhara Karam Hai Aqa, Mujh Mein Aisi Koi Baat Nahin.


Love happens once . . .

[Ibrahim]

Ibrahim says : salaams to all

Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:

Ibrahim says : snipped the silly remarks.

Can anyone find ANY logic in shunning dogs as pets?

Ibrahim says : Read and THINK

7: 176 If it had been Our will We should have elevated him with our signs; but he inclined to the earth and followed his own vain desires. His similitude is that of a dog: if you attack him he lolls out his tongue or if you leave him alone he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject our signs; so relate the story; perchance they may reflect

Ibrahim says: Thus the dog is an animal which will do anything to satisfy its desire, you only need to observe one in the street, it will pee at every object and every corner to mark its presence and will have no restrictions in “doing it anywhere” so long as it can find a partner which it will chase like hell and fight with others, which is not so evident in other animals.

You need to live in a country that is infested with dogs to notice this, and I live in one such country to know for sure. In fact every time the church bell rings at about Fajr time the dogs howl like mad ( just before dawn only) but not at other times, is a very strange phenomenon which I witness daily .

[al-Ma'idah 5:4] They ask thee (O Muhammad) what is made lawful for them. Say: (all) good things are made lawful for you. And those beasts and birds of prey which ye have trained as hounds are trained, ye teach them that which Allah taught you; so eat of that which they catch for you and mention Allah's name upon it, and observe your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is swift to take account.

Ibrahim says: As usual PA will make a mockery of himself, oh well!

Lets read what Muslims are enjoined to do

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 3.515 Narrated by Abu Huraira

Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever keeps a dog, one Qirat of the reward of his good deeds is deducted daily, unless the dog is used for guarding a farm or cattle." Abu Huraira (in another narration) said from the Prophet, "unless it is used for guarding sheep or farms, or for hunting." Narrated Abu Hazim from Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "A dog for guarding cattle or for hunting."

Try this too……….

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 8.38 Narrated by Abu Huraira

Allah's Apostle said, "While a man was walking on a road, he became very thirsty. Then he came across a well, got down into it, drank (of its water) and then came out. Meanwhile he saw a dog panting and licking mud because of excessive thirst. The man said to himself "This dog is suffering from the same state of thirst as I did." So he went down the well (again) and filled his shoe (with water) and held it in his mouth and watered the dog. Allah thanked him for that deed and forgave him." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! Is there a reward for us in serving the animals?" He said, "(Yes) There is a reward for serving any animate (living being)."

Ibrahim says: Thus as usual PA, has serious problems could be due to his failure to circumcise! Since he cannot find that command in the Qur’an or did he?

PakistaniAbroad: it's clear that the dog was with them.

Ibrahim says: DO I NEED TO TYPE IT IN BOLD LETTERS? If you still don’t understand try reading the hadiths again!

Snipped the rest of your foolish arguments which has no relevance since dogs can be used as guard dogs but not as pets in Islam…. get it???

I guess you were an ignorant and did not know what the Prophet (pbuh) taught to Muslims did you?

Was salaam
Ibrahim

you cannot break the laws of Allah (swt). You can only break yourself against them


[This message has been edited by Ibrahim (edited January 27, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Sentinel (edited January 28, 2002).]

[FlameZz]

Its a fact..

Pigs, Donkeys, dogs are shamelessly involved in mating , even in front of hundreds of living beings..

But im not sure abt other animals..

Prophet Muhammad (SAW) did like cats, but he never liked Dogs. so there is not point in arguing. If one thinks that PROPHET Muhammad(SAW) was right, then we should follow what he used to do...



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.::. FlameZz of Love .::.

[The Old Man]

Originally posted by FlameZz:
Its a fact..

Pigs, Donkeys, dogs are shamelessly involved in mating , even in front of hundreds of living beings..

But im not sure abt other animals..

So does ALL other animals, insects, fish, birds, and some humans. Sorry your argument is not sound.

If the Prophet Mohammed instructs people to have a certain behavior relative to certain creatures, accept it on face value and follow his lead.

Glad to know he liked cats, as I also does. My own viewpoint (nothing to do with religeous practices) is that God in His wisdom made ALL creatures and asked Adam/us to rule over ALL these creatures. I therefor love and respect His creations - even though it sometimes is difficult to "love" a flea, mosquito, fly, etc.

[PakistaniAbroad]

7:176 If it had been Our will We should have elevated him with our signs; but he inclined to the earth and followed his own vain desires. His similitude is that of a dog: if you attack him he lolls out his tongue or if you leave him alone he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject our signs; so relate the story; perchance they may reflect

Muhammad Assad's Explanation of (7:176)

Because his attitudes are influenced only by what his earth-bound desires represent to him as his immediate "advantages" or "disadvantages", the type of man alluded to in this passage is always - whatever outward circumstances - a prey to a conflict between his reason and his base urges, and, thus, to iner disquiet and imaginary fears, and cannot attain to that peace of mind which a believer achieves through this faith.

PakistaniAbroad: The similitude to a dog is to compare such a disbeliever with an ANIMAL.

Ibrahim says: Thus the dog is an animal which will do anything to satisfy its desire, you only need to observe one in the street, it will pee at every object and every corner to mark its presence and will have no restrictions in “doing it anywhere” so long as it can find a partner which it will chase like hell and fight with others, which is not so evident in other animals.

How do you arrive from the mention of a dog in a Qur'anic verse when compared to a HUMAN BEING showing only how ANIMALISTIC this person's urges are, to shunning the ANIMAL that he has been compared to among others in the Animal Kingdom?

Mr. Ibrahim, where do your cats relieve themself? in your bathroom? Where do they
"do it"? in your bed? I'm sure they have candle lights and Marvin Gaye on too

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 3.515 Narrated by Abu Huraira

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 8.38 Narrated by Abu Huraira

See people, where there's dog-bashing there's Abu Huraira, Father of Cats. Why am I not surprised there is NO Hadith shunning cats, although they mate in public and pee everywhere too.

And the problem hasn't been solved Mr. Ibrahim. Do you think the hound you train to catch prey, or the ones which guards your cattle, or farm loses it's animalistic instincts to "do it everywhere" or "pee to leave it's mark" or "howl in the mornings"? How can the prey of such a 'filthy' animal be Halaal for Muslims?

Ibrahim says: Thus as usual PA, has serious problems could be due to his failure to circumcise!

Moderators, are you here only to police me?

Snipped the rest of your foolish arguments which has no relevance since dogs can be used as guard dogs but not as pets in Islam…. get it???

OH great.. now tell me Mr. Ibrahim, what 'cattle' or 'farm' or 'sheep' was the dog guarding in The Cave when Allah's mercy arrived for the Men of The Cave? Isn't it clear that the dog was their companion?

I guess you were an ignorant and did not know what the Prophet (pbuh) taught to Muslims did you?

Do you? You take what Abu Huraira fabricated and what Muslim and Bukhari blindly compiled and called it the teachings of the Prophet. I go by what Allah told me in His Book about what He taught the honorable Prophet. To each, their own.

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This Space For Rent

[This message has been edited by Sentinel (edited January 28, 2002).]