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    Silence anyone?

    >If you are still shaken by the horrifying scenes of September 11, please
    >observe a moment of silence for
    the 3,500 civilian lives lost in the New
    >York, Washington, DC and Pennsylvania attacks.
    >
    >While we're at it, let's have 13 minutes of silence for the 130,000 Iraqi
    >civilians killed in 1991 by order of President Bush Sr. Take another moment
    >to remember how Americans celebrated and cheered in the streets.
    >
    >Now another 20 minutes of silence for the 200,000 Iranians killed by Iraqi
    >soldiers using weapons and money provided to young Saddam Hussein by the American government before the great eagle turned all its power against Iraq.
    >
    >Another 15 minutes of silence for the Russians and 150,000 Afghans killed
    >by troops supported and trained by the CIA.
    >
    >Plus 10 minutes of silence for 100,000 Japanese killed in Hiroshima and
    >Nagasaki by the Atomic bombs dropped by the USA.
    >
    >We've just kept quiet for one hour: one minute for the Americans killed in
    >NY, DC, and Pennsylvania, 59 minutes for their victims throughout the world.

    >
    >If you are still in awe, let's have another hour of silence for all those killed in Vietnam, which is not something Americans like to admit.
    >
    >Or for the massacre in Panama in 1989, where American troops attacked poor
    >villagers, leaving 20,000 Panamanians homeless and thousands more dead.
    >
    >Or for the millions of children who have died because of the USA embargoes on Iraq and Cuba.
    >
    >Or the hundreds of thousands brutally murdered throughout the world by
    >USA-sponsored civil wars and coups de'tat (Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Bolivia, Guatemala, El Salvador to name a few). The dead in other places hurt as much as the dead of the Twin Towers.
    >
    >Now, let's talk about terrorism, shall we?
    Ibrahim says: after reading this article, I get to wondering what is the significance of being silent for those that have been victimized or for those who have passed away?

    What does one think of in this minute or two that is supposed to mean respect for the dead?

    How religious is this?


    Maybe my Christian or Hindu brethren can give us a clue?

    #2
    In secular countries, the pause of silence
    gives all concerned the chance to pray and
    reflect. This includes Muslims, who are not
    prevented from practicing their religion
    here. America tolerates all beliefs. But,
    religion is not to be enforced or restricted.
    The latter half of the article provided with-
    out source, involves politics. Not all US
    citizens approve of every action that the
    Government of the United States employs. The
    whole range of human opinion is held in this
    country. That includes Muslims who vote. It is possible for a Muslim to be our president.
    It is possible for a Muslim to be a state
    representative. If a congressman were in
    office, who was muslim, and the president did
    something he voted against, that is politics.
    The moment of silence can be religious or not
    so. It gives one time to think in a country
    that moves very fast at times. We weren't
    always like this, of course. We tended to be
    more religious as a country, in general, in
    our past. This situation evolves.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by TOMASSO:
      In secular countries, the pause of silence gives all concerned the chance to pray and
      reflect.
      Ibrahim says : Greetings of peace to one and all

      Thanks for the response. So it is a time to reflect and pray in your understanding so here is the problem, just ONE minute to do this?

      Do you have a clue as to what this one minute prayer is suppose to be?


      The moment of silence can be religious or not so. It gives one time to think in a country that moves very fast at times.
      Ibrahim says : hmm, so the few minutes of silence and reflection is all that is needed in life to say I do care for you/them/so and so? .

      I am wondering what one thinks in this one minute, is there some preset thoughts to be thought of?

      We weren't always like this, of course. We tended to be more religious as a country, in general, in our past. This situation evolves.
      Ibrahim says: my point is how does one minute in a life time means one has shown respect to another or one cares.

      I sometime feel people are counting till sixty to get over with the minute

      Comment


        #4
        Some immature people might just do that. It
        would be hard to describe the mood of the US,
        after 9/11, as unchanged. The moods may vary,
        but are probably more inward looking. We do
        not have a national call to prayer. The US
        Government has seen it to be concerned about
        Afganistan as something to care about. Even
        before 9/11, America has provided funds to
        this country in excess of any other. We are
        not perfect, but have had some moments that
        are considered by thiscitizen to be of good
        value to the world. This occured, in large
        measure, before I was born in 1964. If it is
        possible to put aside jealousy. if applicable
        America was a thing to behold at it's zenith.
        Bin Laden said before 1967, he had less of a
        problem with the US, in an historic sense.
        Actually, the whole world was in better shape
        in years past, than today.

        Comment


          #5

          Originally posted by TOMASSO:
          Some immature people might just do that
          Ibrahim says : well , that is why I am asking you, what have you been taught to say or you have been practicing in your life and what is the source of this practice.

          Comment


            #6
            The original intent of your question has to
            do with the purpose and meaning of silence.
            Those sorts of requests come from our Presi-
            dent. It does not have anything to do with an
            individual, but with many individuals in our
            society. I have not been taught to say things
            like Muslims might have been instructed to
            do. You sir, like to pick mental fights. I
            wonder if you might volunteer your ethnic
            backround for my curiousity. How is it by
            choice that you are a Muslim? Did you follow
            another faith in your past? What might be
            your native language. I am an American, with
            European ancestry. I went to Catholic school
            for 12 years. We studied many subjects, not
            totally immersed in religion as a subject.

            Comment


              #7
              I read an article late last year about the "minute silence". According to the article it started off very early last century in Cape Town, South Africa, where a person asked for such a time of reflection after some sort of disaster. Apparently the use caught on over the rest of the world. How true the article is, I don't know.

              It is possible that different people might have different ideas as to how the time has to be used. This might include:

              remembering the people that died
              praying for the people that died/their families left behind
              showing honour and respect for the dead
              self-reflection
              etc.

              The time spend can be from seconds to any length of time. There is NO hard and fast rule as to the time spend. The person/organization asking for the silence, might sometimes state what they would like people to do during the silence.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by TOMASSO:The original intent of your question has to do with the purpose and meaning of silence.
                Ibrahim says ; Greetings of peace to one and all

                Exactly! I want to find out why silence, why not a prayer or two . off course each person can say in their hearts/think/feel as they want in that minute, but does a minute of silence mean anything?

                I have not been taught to say things like Muslims might have been instructed to do.
                Ibrahim says : donít you think it is better to be taught how to do this or that, than just wonder what to do or invent one as per our wishes?

                You sir, like to pick mental fights.
                Ibrahim says; where did you get that impression from? I may sound sharp , but that is due to my nature and does not mean I like to pick mental fights, we all have unique natures you know. Most of all I do not waste time, I get to my point directly, this may be difficult for some but that is what they call straight talk. Which avoids vain talk.

                I wonder if you might volunteer your ethnic backround for my curiousity.
                Ibrahim says: I seldom get personal on the net or divulge much info about me, since by the Grace of God I have the capability for now to discuss religious issues using their own scriptures ( meaning I can talk to a Hindu totally like a Hindu based on his book, just like I can talk to a Christian totally like a Christian using his book) too many love me already. As you know religion is the most dangerous subject on the planet.

                How is it by choice that you are a Muslim?
                Ibrahim says: Ahh my friend, you are cross posting, This issue comes from the other thread at http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/004275.html, anyway this is simple to understand.

                You see, God created all of us equally ( immaterial of ethnicity, wealth or nature) and made all of us Muslims at birth, but we due to our parents and community ended up having varying belief systems . Thus even though a person may be born to a Muslim parent , he/she cannot be considered a Muslim until he/she practices Islam .

                And since all of us have been shown the good ways as well as the evil ways, we have to make a decision and have a choice on this planet. Those who prefer/chose to adopt the good ways and live within those boundaries are the Muslims by choice. Those that NEVER practiced Islam but due to their birth call themselves Muslims are Muslims by chance. Hope this makes that statement clearer.

                I would still prefer to hear your one minute prayer, if you can ask around and let me know. That would be great and thanks in advance.

                Best Regards
                Ibrahim


                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by The Old Man:
                  I read an article late last year about the "minute silence". According to the article it started off very early last century in Cape Town, South Africa, where a person asked for such a time of reflection after some sort of disaster. Apparently the use caught on over the rest of the world. How true the article is, I don't know.
                  Ibrahim says : Greetings of peace to one and all

                  Thanks Old man, so it is a new trend and nothing to do with Christianity.


                  Comment


                    #10
                    Ibrahim -

                    I'm on dangerous ground, responding to one whose learned knowledge I have come to respect from reading your posts! However, I shall brave the storm!

                    You ask what is the significance of the act?

                    It is true that a "minute" of silence hardly seems adequate, based on the tragic situations in which it is normally observed. I DO sincerely pray during these moments of silence. But, admittedly, some may feel that the prayer, in and of itself, absolves them from further action or involvement i.e. "they've done their part!".
                    This should not be, but, too often is the case.

                    I would not have found Gupshup, had I not sincerely wanted to try and learn from the sacrifices and losses of BOTH sides in the recent conflicts. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes an event of this magnitude to shock us out of comfortable complaceny into renewed growth. I may not agree with all I read here, but, hope that the dialogue moves us all closer to where the Almighty wants us to be!

                    Peace to all who read this....


                    If a liberal speaks and no one hears, does it still sound stupid?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      [quote]Originally posted by mrpockets:
                      I'm on dangerous ground, [quote]

                      Ibrahim says : Greetings of peace to one and all

                      Hi Mr. Pockets,

                      It only gets dangerous when you know what you should not, so you are on safe ground here.

                      You ask what is the significance of the act?

                      It is true that a "minute" of silence hardly seems adequate, based on the tragic situations in which it is normally observed. I DO sincerely pray during these moments of silence. But, admittedly, some may feel that the prayer, in and of itself, absolves them from further action or involvement i.e. "they've done their part!". This should not be, but, too often is the case.
                      Ibrahim says; well said and one of the points I am trying to get to, but just too late. Thanks.


                      I would not have found Gupshup, had I not sincerely wanted to try and learn from the sacrifices and losses of BOTH sides in the recent conflicts. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes an event of this magnitude to shock us out of comfortable complaceny into renewed growth. I may not agree with all I read here, but, hope that the dialogue moves us all closer to where the Almighty wants us to be! Peace to all who read this....

                      Ibrahim says : Yeah! Trust in Allah but lock your car.

                      Best regards
                      Ibrahim


                      Comment


                        #12
                        Ibrahim, I respect your honesty and learning.
                        I knew in advance that you may not wish to
                        discuss personal matters on this forum. The
                        reasons probably coincide with similar ones
                        of mine. I do notice that some northern folks
                        of the subcontinent seem to be quite hard-
                        headed. This probably has some advantages or
                        roots in culture. I am fascinated by other
                        cultures and place great value on them. Bad
                        is the day if ever we became more indistin-
                        guishable. A negative to this corallary is
                        that the differences of religion do creat
                        danger, as you state. I am not a mod, but I
                        think some deviation is expected in threads.
                        You, yourself cover much ground when you
                        write. The important thing would seem to be
                        a return to the subject at a reasonable point. My goodness, we are crossing time zones and cultures with great ease here. This
                        is a learning venue that is much appreciated
                        by this Yankee Guppie. A moment of reflection
                        for this blessing. Thanx!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Ibrahim:
                          Ibrahim says : so it is a new trend and nothing to do with Christianity.

                          It was not started by Christianity, yes.

                          It is a new trend if you call something 100 years old "new".

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by The Old Man:

                            It is a new trend if you call something 100 years old "new".
                            Ibrahim says; greetings of peace to one and all

                            Yes! a 100 years is nothing compared to the length of time mankind may have been occupying this planet.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Ibrahim:
                              Yes! a 100 years is nothing compared to the length of time mankind may have been occupying this planet.
                              And thus one can differ ......

                              Comment

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