Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Wishing Non-Muslims

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Wishing Non-Muslims

    There is a debate whether muslims should wish greetings for non-muslim occassions, like Christmas etc. There is an opinion, followed extensively that this is forbidden. The basis for this opinion is taken from a hadeeth which says:

    They have their festivals and you (muslims) have yours (meaning Eid ul Fitr and Eid ul Adha)
    Additional guidance is taken from the following verses in the Quran:

    ". . . This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islaam as your religion . . ."
    [al-Maa’idah 5:3]

    "Whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]
    Now the two main questions, is, whether wishing someone "have a great christmas", akin to accepting christian beliefs. Some scholars suggest it is. Some suggest it is not, and it is merely a greeting.

    There seems no direct hadeeth or verse in the quran which prohibits muslims from wishing non-muslims. For some scholars, this is merely a matter of interpretation, and wishing implies you aceept the rituals of kufr and is therefore haraam.

    These scholars suggest that wishing greetings to non-muslims is like innovating into Islam. Their definition of "innovation" leaves a lot to be desired. As discussed in www.understanding-islam.com website innovation is haraam only if it is into the body of the religion.

    "Bid`ah" or "Invention" is a vice only if something new is added to the body of religion. Respecting any non-Muslim custom, tradition or occasion cannot be termed as such. Thus, if someone says that it is religiously essential to wish the Christians a "Merry Christmas" or that wishing Christians a "Merry Christmas" is something desirable in Islam, it would then become a "Bid`ah" or an invention or addition to the religious body.
    Hence newer customs and traditions which have no relation to religion can not be termed bid'ah or haraam. Using the internet, wearing jeans and joggers, jogging on the streets, are non-religious acts and need not be put to the test of bid'ah and what not. These activities by themselves do not result in a naiki or gunnah.

    Preceding this, this website says

    Wishing anyone a "Merry Christmas" should not be considered as forbidden. I agree with you that it has become more of a social, rather than a religious tradition, even in countries with a high Christian population. Moreover, I don't think that any one has any right to declare any thing haraam or forbidden, unless it is done by a clear directive of God. All that we, humans, can say is that such and such thing is not to my liking. However, in this case, in my opinion even this cannot be said.
    Similarly, wishing someone "Happy New Year". Is January 1 a religious occassion. Muslims all over the world, use the gregarian calendar for 99% of their activities. And only stand on the roof top for sighting the moon for ramadan and shawal. So, its basically an en vogue and defacto standard, even for muslims.

    Does using this calendar constitute haraam and bid'ah?

    Therefore, wishing someone "Happy New Year", is it a religious greeting or a matter-of-fact greeting which does not imply that we agree to christianity, but rather only implies that a new year has started?

    #2
    Pristine, I don’t mean to sound discourteous, but a greeting as harmless as wishing someone a Happy New Year or Merry Christmas, does someone need to go as far as consulting a Molvee? I mean really. Do we consult a Molvee when we migrate to Western Countries for whatever reasons? What if the Molvee says, it is Gunnah to do so. What will we do.

    In my opinion, matters such as these should not make one run to Holy Books as we are living in ever evolving times. Even the celebration of Christmas started long after Jesus died (in fact no mention of it in ancient or modern Roman History where Christianity flourished) and the Tree, for example, is only a couple of hundred year old tradition. Santa even more recent. Who know what tomorrow may bring, chicks coming down the chimney may be.

    Anyhow, speaking ill of others’ traditions or festivals in not what Islam is all about. It is inclusive and not exclusive. Saying Kalma or praying alone does not make one Muslim.

    Comment


      #3
      There is a fatwah on this issue which states that participating in non-Muslim functions is not allowed.

      NYA has given evidences which are totally irrelevant. Islam is a deen. We have to live our lives the way we are supposed to not the way the world lives it.

      ------------------
      Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.

      Comment


        #4
        >>>There is a fatwah on this issue which states that participating in non-Muslim functions is not allowed. <<<

        Factfinder, I don’t dispute the Fatwa, but what would you do if there is a Fatwa to counter that Fatwa? Which one will you take? You know how many dimes a dozens Fatwas come? Can you show a passage in the Quran where it says that not to wish anyone Merry Christmas or Happy New Year?

        Comment


          #5
          Greeting someone on a special occassion is a show of respect as far as I am concerned. It does not constitute becoming a part of their faith.

          As far as I can tell, respecting someone else's faith can only be appreciated by Islam.

          Comment


            #6
            And more importantly, if there are two contradictary fatwas, u have a right to accept which one you feel is accurate. Others have the same right.

            And therefore, lets not start calling others as heretics, committing haraam and bid'ah and non-muslims. If there is a difference of opinion, just state your reasons and let the others make up their mind, instead of pronouncing "you shall do it and you shall not do it, otherwise you are committing haraam". Whatever.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Pristine:
              just state your reasons and let the others make up their mind, instead of pronouncing "you shall do it and you shall not do it, otherwise you are committing haraam". Whatever.
              Ibrahim says: Salaams to all

              Dear Brothers and sisters,

              Actually this is simple to understand when you consider the fact that aiding and abetting a crime or mistake amounts to an error.

              Thus when we knowingly or blindly enjoin something that is false we are actually promoting falsehood.

              Allah (swt) enjoined for mankind the following:

              58: 14 Turnest thou not thy attention to those who turn (in friendship) to such as have the Wrath of Allah upon them? They are neither of you nor of them and they swear to falsehood knowingly

              3: 71 Ye People of the Book! Why do ye clothe truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while ye have knowledge?

              2: 42 And cover not Truth with falsehood nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).

              Ibrahim says; Thus it is a fundamental duty for Muslims to correct the errors of those who are committing them.

              In the case of greeting others Merry Christmas or happy new year, which are events based on falsehood., since Christ was not born on such a date or time and the hijri month for Muslims does not end in December.

              If Muslims willfully do not acknowledge the fact that in Islam Muharram is the beginning of their calendar , than who are supposed to enjoin it? The very fact that today’s Muslims will not even know when in hijri they were born or what their calendar months are known as amounts to discarding Islam and establishing errors.

              Muslims must seriously consider:-

              9: 36 The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year) so ordained by Him the day He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are sacred; that is the straight usage. So wrong not yourselves therein and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together. But know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.


              Ibrahim says : when Allah (swt) conveyed four months are sacred from the day he created it, how will any of you be able to observe them, if you chose to abandon your calendar and follow the calendar of the unbelievers?

              Thus it is obvious that Muslims should not establish the erroneous calendar of the Christians by greeting them on such occasions , which they have invented for themselves. Remember when you do this you are teaching your children to do it also , thus establishing falsehood and denying truth by your ill conceived actions.

              Was salaam
              Ibrahim

              To live in the Present is wisdom . To live for the present is folly

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
                >>>There is a fatwah on this issue which states that participating in non-Muslim functions is not allowed. <<<

                Factfinder, I don’t dispute the Fatwa, but what would you do if there is a Fatwa to counter that Fatwa? Which one will you take? You know how many dimes a dozens Fatwas come? Can you show a passage in the Quran where it says that not to wish anyone Merry Christmas or Happy New Year?
                do u follow wots written in quran ...lol

                just cruious bcz instead of questioning wots in it or not why not just follow wot u know for sure in it !!!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Ibrahim, I am unable to follow through with your argument. It does not tie-in from point A to point B.

                  The crux of your argument is that muslims should ditch the gregarian calendar and adopt the hijri calendar. THe aim is noble but that is something which is not happening, so can we concentrate on the present, instead of spending rhetorical arguments on something which is not used?

                  The way I look at it, January to December are just months, used universally for the sake of consistency. Christ's birth is just another day in this calendar, and using the calendar does not mean we are accepting chritisan fables and innovations. It is something which is there, just as the computer you are using right now, to read this post has english characters. The post you will submit in response will have a January date on top. This does not make you a christian and using english does not make you an infidel. Using these tools (calendar and language are tools used for reference and communication, respectively) you are not spreading falsehood.

                  So, why do we insist on making a huge mountain out of small, unrelated issues? Out of 1 billion muslims in the world, how many use hijri calendar as their defacto, standard calendar? Do you use it for your communication?

                  Lets stop preaching what we don't practice ourselves. Lets stop representing Islam as a harsh, unfriendly, uncompromising faith where one wrong step will throw you in an abyss of darkness and falsehood.

                  Just as you have tried to formulate a case for your point of view, 100s of scholars can make a case proving exactly the opposite. Doesn't mean you are wrong, it simply means, any of us can be wrong. Lets not be rigid in our opinions and be open to corrections and be a bit more tolerant to differing points of view.

                  Its only Allah who knows the final answer.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Belief cannot be thrust down a person's throat. Whoever accepts, benefits; and he who keeps asking questions is the loser.

                    I am very concerned by a person saying what NYA has said. It shows total disrespect for the Ulema. If there are people issuing fatwas without solid evidence, theya re responsible for their actions. We cannot pass judgement and then discredit all fatwas. I would not like to be in NYA's shoes on the Day of Judgement when this is brought up.

                    As regards Brother Ibrahim's post, he has, as usual supported every assertion with an ayah from the Qur'an. What he has stated is that wishing someone with a false ceremony is contributing to the falsehood. He has also asserted that we have forgotten our own identity and are so engrossed in western identities that we do not know our own calender, etc.


                    ------------------
                    Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      its not allowed in Islam so why do it just to please the non-muslims....

                      Umar bin Khattab was once having lunch with an ambassador from Rome and while eating the food fell from his hand and on to the mat and as Umar had learnt from the Sunnah he picked up the food and ate it....
                      one of the companions saw this and said to the khalifah "u shud have avoided such an act cuz we had a guest with us and he may have not liked this"....
                      Umar was enraged with this and said "shud i leave a Sunnah of the Prophet for anyone?"....

                      maybe u dont get the point but what i am trying to say is that we shud worry about things that please Allah and not about things that help us create cordial relations with humans who cannot benefit us in any way (if Allah does not wish to do so)....
                      Both Halal & Haram r evident but between them r doubtful things, most ppl have no knowledge about them. So whoever saves himself from suspicious things saves his religion & honor, & whoever indulges in suspicious things indulges in Haram.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Pristine:
                        Ibrahim, I am unable to follow through with your argument. It does not tie-in from point A to point B.
                        Ibrahim says: salaams to all

                        Dear Pristine, sometimes I do wonder whether I speak mystic language or sound as if, I have just finished grade two since my English is not all that good.

                        Anyway let me try and recap what I said

                        1) Allah (swt) warned Muslims not to promote falsehood knowingly ( kindly read the verses I quoted)

                        2) As such if I wished anyone Merry Christmas or a happy new year, I would be promoting falsehood as I know for sure such celebrations are based on false notions.

                        That was the gist of my point, it had No fatwa’s attached and was simple and easy to understand, I had hoped .

                        I went on further to establish the fact that as Muslims our new year starts in Muharram and in the Islamic environment we have to observe certain periods of times as sacred and these times are not fixed but runs that course as Allah (swt) willed, just as our eids are not fixed.


                        The crux of your argument is that muslims should ditch the gregarian calendar and adopt the hijri calendar. THe aim is noble but that is something which is not happening, so can we concentrate on the present, instead of spending rhetorical arguments on something which is not used?
                        Ibrahim says: That was not my main argument but that is what you have focused on while forgetting the most important point that I had conveyed, being do not enjoin falsehood knowingly .Do not aid or abet falsehood knowingly ..

                        Even Christians ( Baptists ) condemn Christmas as a pagan invention and If you had noticed what Jante posted at http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/004171-2.html

                        She was very direct and to the point by quoting the following

                        2Corinthians 6:14-18 which says "... what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Belial? (...) get out from them, and separate ourselves..." . This the reason cause thousands and thousands of true Christians DON´T CELEBRATE Christmas.

                        so knowledgeable Christians also forbid it , so why would knowledgeable Muslims tag along with it?

                        With regards to wishing anyone to have a happy new year which is celebrated with a big bang and whole night long parties ( the works) surely as a Muslim you would NEVER encourage it so why wish such things knowingly for others ? (was the point I am trying to convey)

                        The way I look at it, January to December are just months, used universally for the sake of consistency. Christ's birth is just another day in this calendar, and using the calendar does not mean we are accepting chritisan fables and innovations. It is something which is there, just as the computer you are using right now, to read this post has english characters. The post you will submit in response will have a January date on top. This does not make you a christian and using english does not make you an infidel. Using these tools (calendar and language are tools used for reference and communication, respectively) you are not spreading falsehood.
                        Ibrahim says; you are arguing a point which I had NEVER raised. We are not talking about the months or about Christian origins , I am saying Christ was not born on 25th of December so do not acknowledge that he was born on this day. Tell them that this day is false and they too know it very well, as such try and put a stop to this folly, do not encourage it by joining with the majority who are bent on spreading the falsehood. That is what makes us Muslims.

                        So, why do we insist on making a huge mountain out of small, unrelated issues? Out of 1 billion muslims in the world, how many use hijri calendar as their defacto, standard calendar? Do you use it for your communication?
                        Ibrahim says: Pristine, where are you heading? You asked a question, I gave you an answer, and now you insist I had made a mountain out of a small unrelated issue . The fact remains, Muslims have a calendar which has to be observed by Muslims,( at least every eid , everyone seems to be hearing about it) which has been shelved by this generation because we have been subjugated by the Christians.

                        I did not say; we must use the hijri or else!

                        The notion that, it is not practicable in our current times is not the issue, what I said was when a Muslim failed to enjoined it, why would anyone else be enjoining it. Now try this argument in an another way.

                        Lets say Muslims, have the upper hand and they are celebrating Muharram as the new year, do you expect the Jews and the Christian to follow suit? They will surely not . hence each faith promotes its own or else it causes the demise of its own principals. That was the gist of my point concerning the Islamic calendar.

                        Lets stop preaching what we don't practice ourselves. Lets stop representing Islam as a harsh, unfriendly, uncompromising faith where one wrong step will throw you in an abyss of darkness and falsehood.
                        Ibrahim says: I believe you are talking way above what I wrote. My point was simple and was in line with what Allah (swt) enjoined for mankind.

                        Your point is born out of fear and your fear seems to be that others may feel bad if we do not follow the majority. I can understand your apprehensions but If you just knew what was conveyed by Christ, and how they lived, you would shudder to follow the current Christian practices .

                        Simply put, Christ claimed he was sent to separate even the members of the same family and whoever failed to separate had failed to follow him.

                        Clearly , Allah (swt) enjoined thus

                        2: 208 O ye who believe! enter into Islam whole-heartedly; and follow not the footsteps of the Evil One; for he is to you an avowed enemy.

                        My point was based on a simple TRUTH, enjoin righteousness and forbid evil , that is the essence of the message found in all scriptures.

                        If I agreed with you that it is alright to encourage the spread of this falsehood, since everyone else is doing it, I would end up contradicting the message given in the Qur’an and Bible .

                        I pray you are not asking me to do that, for the sake of your assertions. But you are most welcome to follow your heart for the sake of pleasing others.

                        Just as you have tried to formulate a case for your point of view, 100s of scholars can make a case proving exactly the opposite. Doesn't mean you are wrong, it simply means, any of us can be wrong. Lets not be rigid in our opinions and be open to corrections and be a bit more tolerant to differing points of view. Its only Allah who knows the final answer.
                        Ibrahim says: how does this apply to what I wrote?

                        May Allah (swt) Guide us
                        Was salaam
                        Ibrahim

                        The suffering that comes from an error is created to direct us back to the correct path

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Salaam

                          The link provided above cannot be considered a fatwa until certain conditions are met.

                          One of these conditions is that we need to firstly determine the person that issued the 'fatwa'? Does he base his judgement on the Qur'aan and the Sunnah according to the understanding of the Companions - radhiAllaahum? Who were his teachers? Did they base their judgement on the Qur'aan and the Sunnah according to the understanding of the Companions? Who were his teachers' teachers? ... and so on and so forth until a link of knowledge and understanding is made all the way to the Companions through the generations of learned scholars who base their judgemnets on the correct sources. So until this is verified it cannot even be considered a fatwa, as anyone can introduce an article on a web site and call it a 'religious ruling'.

                          Another important question is whether his contemporaries who fit the above criteria (of a scholar) recognise him as being a person of knowledge and consider him in a position to issue a fatwa.

                          I wish to re-iterate a point that i have already made somwhere along the forums, to play a reminder.

                          Firstly, there is unanimous agreement amongst the Islamic scholars on this issue.

                          And secondly, the Fatwa of one of the most renound scholars of our time with regards to the topic being discussed.

                          The following explanation has been translated from the book of the late dearly respected Shaykh Muhammad Saalih ibn Uthaymeen - raheemumAllaah - and i hope it Insha'Allaah proves beneficial for all in understanding this important matter:

                          Greeting the kuffaar on Christmas and other religious holidays of theirs is haraam, by consensus, as Ibn al-Qayyim, may Allaah have mercy on him, said in Ahkaam Ahl al-Dhimmah: "Congratulating the kuffaar on the rituals that belong only to them is haraam by consensus, as is congratulating them on their festivals and fasts by saying ‘A happy festival to you’ or ‘May you enjoy your festival,’ and so on. If the one who says this has been saved from kufr, it is still forbidden. It is like congratulating someone for prostrating to the cross, or even worse than that. It is as great a sin as congratulating someone for drinking wine, or murdering someone, or having illicit sexual relations, and so on. Many of those who have no respect for their religion fall into this error; they do not realize the offensiveness of their actions. Whoever congratulates a person for his disobedience or bid’ah or kufr exposes himself to the wrath and anger of Allaah."

                          Congratulating the kuffaar on their religious festivals is haraam to the extent described by Ibn al-Qayyim because it implies that one accepts or approves of their rituals of kufr, even if one would not accept those things for oneself. But the Muslim should not aceept the rituals of kufr or congratulate anyone else for them, because Allaah does not accept any of that at all, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):
                          "If you disbelieve, then verily, Allaah is not in need of you, He likes not disbelief for His slaves. And if you are grateful (by being believers), He is pleased therewith for you. . ."
                          [al-Zumar 39:7]

                          ". . . This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islaam as your religion . . ."
                          [al-Maa’idah 5:3]


                          So congratulating them is forbidden, whether they are one’s colleagues at work or otherwise.

                          If they greet us on the occasion of their festivals, we should not respond, because these are not our festivals, and because they are not festivals which are acceptable to Allaah. These festivals are innovations in their religions, and even those which may have been prescribed formerly have been abrogated by the religion of Islaam, with which Allaah sent Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to the whole of mankind. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

                          "Whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]

                          It is haraam for a Muslim to accept invitations on such occasions, because this is worse than congratulating them as it implies taking part in their celebrations.
                          Similarly, Muslims are forbidden to imitate the kuffaar by having parties on such occasions, or exchanging gifts, or giving out sweets or food, or taking time off work, etc., because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever imitates a people is one of them."

                          Shaykh al-Islaam Ibn Taymiyah said in his book Iqtidaa’ al-siraat al-mustaqeem mukhaalifat ashaab al-jaheem: "Imitating them in some of their festivals implies that one is pleased with their false beliefs and practices, and gives them the hope that they may have the opportunity to humiliate and mislead the weak."

                          Whoever does anything of this sort is a sinner, whether he does it out of politeness or to be friendly, or because he is too shy to refuse, or for whatever other reason, because this is hypocrisy in Islaam, and because it makes the kuffaar feel proud of their religion.

                          Allaah is the One Whom we ask to make the Muslims feel proud of their religion, to help them adhere steadfastly to it, and to make them victorious over their enemies, for He is the Strong and Omnipotent.
                          (Majmoo’ah Fataawa wa Rasaa’il al-Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, 3/369)
                          I would just like to add, that many of us are accustomed to set beliefs and practices which we do not wish to compromise, whether it's becuase we've been raised in a certain mode or whether we've educated ourselves to accept certain principles and reject others. However, there should be nothing to prevent us from investigating a matter our self if we are not fully satisfied with an explanation, especially something as important as religion/Islaam. And this investigation and enquiry should take place in a sincere manner, if one is genuinly searching for the truth.

                          When we are ill or in need of medical advice we often turn to a doctor or a medical consultant; when we need to determine the foundations or dimensions of a building or a bridge then we find ourselves questioning an architect or civil engineer; when we wish to explore the particle structure of mountains and rocks we confront a geologist.

                          So when we have a question pertaining to Islaam, we should turn to those more knowledgeable in this field, namely those scholars who take their understanding from the Qur'aan and the Sunnah as understood by the Companions - the best of mankind. And above, i have posted a relevant piece by just one such a scholar ... there are many more in this consensus.

                          WasSalaam

                          -------------------
                          "No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that He has willed it."

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Jazak Allah, brother Hasnain.

                            I was looking for this opinion from Shaikh Uthaymin (may Allah have mercy on him) but could not find it when I was posting my response.

                            May Allah save us from even small mistakes.



                            ------------------
                            Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Ibrahim,

                              There are two issues here.

                              Perhaps the disconnect was that I was concentrating on "New Year Greeting" and by association, the adoption of gregarian calendar by the majority of muslim world nowadays. Whereas you are concentrating on Christmas, and the falsehood surrounding that event.

                              While I agree with you, on the point of spreading falsehood by celebrating christmas, I am still unable to gather whether any of you are indeed against using gregarian calender or not.

                              I know of a clear hadith where the Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) had instructed muslims to celebrate islamic festivals as opposed to non-islamic (be it christian, pagan, jewish or what not). And since it is a clear hadith, so I have no wish to debate it. The quote above in my first post is from a website, which I read during my research on this issue. That ruling is open for discussion.

                              Coming back to the use of gregarian calendar and the consequent greeting of New Year, are you equating it with spreading christianity and falsehood? Is there any clear quranic verse or hadith which prohibits using gregarian calendar or to wish non-religious greetings (e.g. wishing someone for the birth of a son or getting a promotion etc)?

                              Hasnain, while I have nothing against the worthy scholars you quoted, as you very well know, there are many issues where equally knowledgable scholars have come to diametrically opposite conclusion. While you are free to follow the opinion of a scholar whom you consider getting the right answer, if we start disrespecting those whose opinion may not be accurate, you are inviting the same disrespect to your own teacher. And that, I warn you, is a very slippery slope.

                              It is for this same reason, that many people are skeptical when it comes to inferences and deductions out of simple ayats and ahadith. These inferences are determined by human beings, scholars they may be, and can be wrong. On the other hand, a clear command in quran or a strong hadith is something where relatively few people have a problem with.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X