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    Christians/Christmas/Santa/ Is There Some Hypocrisy?

    I myself am a Christian from America, but I observed how so many Christians have lost sight to the true meaning of celebration of Christmas. A couple of days ago I was at the mall and ran into a friend of mine and she said to me "Well, are you ready for Christmas?", so I replied to her with "Yes I am ready to celebrate to remembrance of Jesus Christ birthday". Well I have to tell you, my friend just looked at me with an odd look and said again to me "I was referring to are you done with your Christmas shopping". That statement she made to me, really pissed me off. Here's my point.......What in the he-- does buying gifts for others have any significance to birth of Jesus Christ. Furthermore, if we do choose to buy gifts or do good deeds for others, why should it only be limited to one time in a year.... why not show love and good deeds for others all during the year. And here's another statement that really got me fumed up again....After Christmas, the next day I returned to work and I asked a co-worker of mine, I said to her "How was Christmas with your family".... and this was her response, she said "My Christmas was wonderful, I got a new purse, necklace, and so on.... Again I say......what the he-- does that have to do with observance of Jesus Christ... I have really gotten frustrated with lots of Christians who only associated Christmas with gifts and not remembering the true sentimental connection. If you all are wondering, yes, I do participate in gift exchanging with family members and friends, but I also observe the true meaning. One more thing I am also clueless in, and this has gone on for centuries, I never knew why, but here goes.. What does Santa Clause have to do with Christmas? What purpose does Santa serve. Have you ever unscrambled the word Santa? If not, do so, and this is what you find---Satan. Now that's a thought, Santa unscrambled as Satan. Well just curious if I am the only Christian here who has noticed this hypocrisy.

    #2
    I've noticed it to Kim (sis). A co-worker of mine asked me what was I buying my two boys for Christmas and I told her a $5.00 toy and she replied as "Thats ALL?!?!?!?, WHY?!?!?!?" I said "all they will do is tear it up". I used to buy expensive gifts for my son and within a couple of weeks, it would be destroyed. I told her they are getting 1 toy and it would cost no more than $5. Well I spend $30 so sue me. My co-worker told me she was spending $140.00 on her daughter alone and she also said I should buy my kids more than that. I told her there is more to Christmas than spending money on gifts. I asked her "How would you like it on your birthday if the whole world celebrated and swapped gifts and didn't buy you (the birthday person) a single gift or do a good deed?" She looked pi$$ed. Oh well, she'll get over it.

    btw.... Where is my gift Kim, I'm still waiting?

    Comment


      #3
      Kimmy, well I'm sure you're not the only Christian to notice this hypocracy, but it just seems that no one cares about the "true meaning of Christmas" as you said it (btw - sounds like a cliche). But also, it seems as if its not only associated with a Christian tradition as it is a North American one in the least. My Jewish neighbors don't even put up hanauka candles in the window but always have a "Satan" Doll and a Christmas tree. But believe you me I do understand your frustation with what you believe not being practiced.

      Christmas looks to me more of an extragavant marketing ploy which is really working well. I was reading that alot of specialty shops do most of their business during this 'holiday' time. There is this one candy manufacturer (Bob's candies) in Alabama which only makes candy canes year long for Christmas time and they sell one billion dollars worth of those little candies...WOW, thats alot of sugar!!!

      Comment


        #4
        k
        Originally posted by k2pk:
        Kimmy, well I'm sure you're not the only Christian to notice this hypocracy, but it just seems that no one cares about the "true meaning of Christmas" as you said it (btw - sounds like a cliche). But also, it seems as if its not only associated with a Christian tradition as it is a North American one in the least. My Jewish neighbors don't even put up hanauka candles in the window but always have a "Satan" Doll and a Christmas tree. But believe you me I do understand your frustation with what you believe not being practiced.

        Christmas looks to me more of an extragavant marketing ploy which is really working well. I was reading that alot of specialty shops do most of their business during this 'holiday' time. There is this one candy manufacturer (Bob's candies) in Alabama which only makes candy canes year long for Christmas time and they sell one billion dollars worth of those little candies...WOW, thats alot of sugar!!!

        Christmas here in the US is more about MONEY-the root of all EVIL. Before Christmas sales and after Christmas sales and people returning gifts for U KNOW - MONEY!

        Comment


          #5
          Well said k2pk and GHC. I agree.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by kimmy:
            so I replied to her with "Yes I am ready to celebrate to remembrance of Jesus Christ birthday".
            Ibrahim says: Greetings of Peace to one and all

            Dear Kimmy, fully agree with your findings on current Christian trends and hope to hear from you as to why you believe Christ was born on 25th of December, which for love of our Creator, I cannot find written anywhere ?


            Comment


              #7
              k2pk.........We Christians know that this was not actually Jesus' birthday...his birthday was never revealed in the Bible. We have picked a day to show remembrance, but it is not actual day, quite sure....no one really knows exact day.

              Comment


                #8
                ah...okay, (I believe that was Ibrahim's point), but a good answer i'd say, I was also always confused about that...ALSO, when they changed the calendar in the 6th century, they had it off by 6 years, so in fact according to TIME, it is actually 2007 right now in that respect...

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hello!

                  I raised a question on another forum where there are substantially more active contributors from the Christian faith. My question was simply what the relevance of 25 December was.

                  Out of about 25 responses, only one confirmed that it was not Jesus (alaihe salam's) birthday. The rest all paid more importance to the commercial aspects (presents, parties, movies, etc.).

                  For those in doubt about the date, go to Encyclopedia Britanica. 25 December was a pagan festival and was deliberately coincided with Christianity. It was not a fluke or result of change of callendar.



                  ------------------
                  Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by kimmy:
                    We have picked a day to show remembrance, but it is not actual day, quite sure....no one really knows exact day.
                    Ibrahim says: Hi Kimmy! hence the very foundation for the celebration is make believe (imagination) and not based on TRUTH.

                    That being the case it should be all right to throw in the santa’s, gifts, turkeys and the merry making and what knots, Just kidding

                    Did you know what the Bible says with regards to this celebrations with a tree in the midst?

                    Read!

                    Isaiah 66:

                    15. For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

                    16. For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many.

                    17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.

                    18 "And I, because of their actions and their imaginations, am about to come and gather all nations and tongues, and they will come and see my glory.


                    Maybe that was not too clear let me refer you to the Holman Bible Dictionary, (the statement is well worded to avoid any discrimination as it is a Christian BIBLE dictionary) so will quote here as written:

                    Christmas:-

                    Of the major Christian Festivals, Christmas is the most recent origin. The name a contraction of the term "Christ mass", did not come into use until the middle ages. In the early centuries, Christians were much more likely to celebrate the day of a persons death than the persons birthday. Very early in its history the church had an annual observance of the death of Christ and also honored many of the early martyrs on the day of their death. Before the fourth century, churches in the east - Egypt, Asia Minor, and Antioch - observed Epiphany, the manifestation of God to the world, celebrating Christ’s baptism, His birth, and the visit of the Magi.

                    In the early part of the fourth century, Christians in Rome began to celebrate the birth of Christ. The practice spread widely and rapidly, so that most parts of the Christian world observed the new festival by the end of the century. In the fourth century, the controversy over the nature of Christ, whether he was truly God or a created being , led to an increased emphasis on the doctrine of the incarnation, the affirmation that the Word was made flesh" ( John 1:14) It is likely that the urgency to proclaim the incarnation was an important factor in the spread of the celebration of Christmas.

                    No evidence remains about the exact date of the birth of Christ. The December 25 date was chosen as much for practical reasons as for theological ones. Throughout the Roman Empire, various festivals were held in conjunction with the winter solstice. In Rome, the feast of the Unconquerable Sun celebrated the beginning of the return of the sun. When Christianity became the religion of the empire, the church either had to suppress the festivals or transform them . The winter solstice seemed an appropriate time to celebrate Christ’s birth. Thus the festival of the Sun became the festival of the Son, the light of the world.

                    Fred A.Grissom.

                    Look who is claiming, it is their festival which confirms above fact that it was a SUN festival ?
                    www.clubs.yahoo.com - marathipeople - message #9272

                    the custom of celebrating "dakshiNaayan" or sun's reaching the southernmost point started in ancient india and was carried to egypt by hindu navigators and travellers. indian astronomy was well developed since the early ages. even as per the present-day solar calendar, night of 23 december is the longest with the sun being at the southernmost point with resprect to the earth. this celebration was called "dakshin maas". the custom was carried into egypt and was taken from there to rome and greece, and got included in their social festivals. since it was all about celebrating "nature's elements and gods", the later christian missions termed such events as "pagan". however, such pagan approaches were part of the early age spirituality in all civilized and stable societies. i would not want to delve into this aspect here (topic for further debate at a later date, may be!).


                    ancient christianity conveniently adopted and adapted this so-called "pagan" custom into a celebration of the birth of jesus, and had people continue the custom under the christian guise . I am not against any religion neither am i trying to denigrate any system of faith. the point i am trying to make here is that the celebration (which greeks called x'mas, meaning tenth month celebration - remember, that january and february were added to the western solar calendar much later and earlier they only had ten months, sept, oct, nov, dec meaning seventh, eighth, ninth and tenth months).

                    x'mas is an original indian festival. the original name, "dakshin maas" somehow got converted to christmas especially after the onslaught of christianity. in any case, do not forget that all known religions originated in asia and not one came from the "western world".

                    why can we not proudly celebrate dakshin maas, no matter what it is called today ? it has Indian social and spiritual origin - a sun festival !

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Ibrahim says: greetings of Peace to one and all

                      Hi guys, just for those who would like to know more about this strange date

                      Whose Birthday is 25th of December ?

                      For:-

                      1) Dionysius in Greece & Bacchus in Rome was termed “ the only begotten son” of Zeus / Jupiter (pagan god of gods). He was born of a virgin mother named Demeter on December 25th. To his followers he was the Redeemer and Savior. He called himself the ALPHA and OMEGA.

                      2) Mithra was the Persian sun-god. His birth also of virgin mother, took place on the 25th of December. Christmas and Easter were the most important festivals of the Mithraists. They had seven sacraments the most important of which were baptism, confirmation and Eucharistic supper at which communicants partook of the divine nature of Mithra under the species of bread and wine.

                      3) Jesus Christ ( Peace upon him) is also claimed to be born on the 25th of December......which is in doubt for NO one except GOD knows when he was born, in-fact our calendar which starts from the date of his birth is now considered about 4 to 8 years in error. So how can we know his birth date ?

                      But for some reason our ancestor’s have coincided his birthdate with some of the pagan cults of that time as indicated above. Should we after knowing these facts stills continue to celebrate his birthday on the particular day which had been used by pagans.

                      In addition,

                      a) The Bible at times mentions the word used for God in Latin manuscripts ( current copies ) was “Adonis” . Adonis was the Savior of Syria, was also born of a virgin mother. He also suffered death for the redemption of mankind. He rose from the dead in spring ( Easter).

                      b) The Bible also mentions Hades , who was the Greek god of the underworld, the lord of dead . Which is currently interpreted as Hell by our Christian scholars.

                      Other legends ,we need to consider with the same or similar nature attributed to Jesus Christ are:-

                      1) Attis for example , was born of a virgin named Nana and was regarded as the Only begotten Son and Saviour. He was bled to death on March 24th at the foot of a pine tree and his votaries believed that his blood had renewed the fertility of the earth and thus brought a new life to humanity. He rose from the dead and his death and resurrection were celebrated by his followers.

                      2) Osiris , the Egyptian god was born on 29th of December of a virgin mother. He was betrayed by one Typhen and was slain. He was buried, remained in hell for two or three days and nights. He then rose from the dead.

                      3) The Babylonian Passion play of Baal ( Babylonian sun -god ) and the Christian Bible Passion story are similar in all details as described in “Christianity Myth or Message” by Prof. .Dr. Ahmad Zidan.

                      4) The Histories of Buddha and Jesus Christ ( Peace upon him ) are identical as described by T.W. Doane in his book “ Bible Myths”

                      But all this legends and myths existed long before the time of Jesus .

                      All this only indicates that the Early Christians have mixed up the pagan cult with the divine mission of Jesus Christ ( peace upon him) due to lack of information,

                      For Jesus said “ He will send the comforter or councilor or admirable , when we are ready ”


                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Ibrahim:
                        Ibrahim says: greetings of Peace to one and all

                        Hi guys, just for those who would like to know more about this strange date

                        Whose Birthday is 25th of December ?

                        For:-

                        1) Dionysius in Greece & Bacchus in Rome was termed “ the only begotten son” of Zeus / Jupiter (pagan god of gods). He was born of a virgin mother named Demeter on December 25th. To his followers he was the Redeemer and Savior. He called himself the ALPHA and OMEGA.

                        2) Mithra was the Persian sun-god. His birth also of virgin mother, took place on the 25th of December. Christmas and Easter were the most important festivals of the Mithraists. They had seven sacraments the most important of which were baptism, confirmation and Eucharistic supper at which communicants partook of the divine nature of Mithra under the species of bread and wine.

                        3) Jesus Christ ( Peace upon him) is also claimed to be born on the 25th of December......which is in doubt for NO one except GOD knows when he was born, in-fact our calendar which starts from the date of his birth is now considered about 4 to 8 years in error. So how can we know his birth date ?

                        But for some reason our ancestor’s have coincided his birthdate with some of the pagan cults of that time as indicated above. Should we after knowing these facts stills continue to celebrate his birthday on the particular day which had been used by pagans.

                        In addition,

                        a) The Bible at times mentions the word used for God in Latin manuscripts ( current copies ) was “Adonis” . Adonis was the Savior of Syria, was also born of a virgin mother. He also suffered death for the redemption of mankind. He rose from the dead in spring ( Easter).

                        b) The Bible also mentions Hades , who was the Greek god of the underworld, the lord of dead . Which is currently interpreted as Hell by our Christian scholars.

                        Other legends ,we need to consider with the same or similar nature attributed to Jesus Christ are:-

                        1) Attis for example , was born of a virgin named Nana and was regarded as the Only begotten Son and Saviour. He was bled to death on March 24th at the foot of a pine tree and his votaries believed that his blood had renewed the fertility of the earth and thus brought a new life to humanity. He rose from the dead and his death and resurrection were celebrated by his followers.

                        2) Osiris , the Egyptian god was born on 29th of December of a virgin mother. He was betrayed by one Typhen and was slain. He was buried, remained in hell for two or three days and nights. He then rose from the dead.

                        3) The Babylonian Passion play of Baal ( Babylonian sun -god ) and the Christian Bible Passion story are similar in all details as described in “Christianity Myth or Message” by Prof. .Dr. Ahmad Zidan.

                        4) The Histories of Buddha and Jesus Christ ( Peace upon him ) are identical as described by T.W. Doane in his book “ Bible Myths”

                        But all this legends and myths existed long before the time of Jesus .

                        All this only indicates that the Early Christians have mixed up the pagan cult with the divine mission of Jesus Christ ( peace upon him) due to lack of information,

                        For Jesus said “ He will send the comforter or councilor or admirable , when we are ready ”


                        I totally agree with you Ibrahim.

                        The US had first banned Christmas because it was a Pagan festival celebrated in Rome on the 25th of December which celebrated the sUn of God. Before Alabama was a state back in the 1700's (1791?), was the first place in the US to celebrate Christmas and a lot of Christians all over the world and the US excited with their festival with the lights, etc. decided to make their own festival as well, but as to the sOn of God instead of sUn and call it Christmas (Christ Mass). Before long, the government gave in or they would stand out like a sore thumb and let Christmas become a National Holiday, but somewhere down the line Santas (Satans) were put into the picture. Satan, the Fallen Angel, likes to lure people in on his day (SantaDay-25th of December)and have people actually celebrate him (Satan) rather than Jesus.

                        The US knew it was Pagan to start with along with Halloween, etc., so once Pagan will always be Pagan so why not throw in Santa-Satans, Red-Nosed Flying Reindeers, etc. , its still a Pagan Holiday no matter how you put it because of where or how it originated.

                        To me, if we are going to celebrate Christmas as the Birthdate of Christ, even though we aren't sure of the exact day, why not put pictures of Jesus all around and everyone instead of buying gifts, etc. go out to where the poor and helpless people are and on that day, do someone a GREAT DEED such as give a Great Meal Feast to a needy family or these Hot Shot Millionaires here in the US and all over who celebrate Christmas go out to places like Afghanistan, Somalia, Sudan, and use their Millions to build them houses, hospitals, give them food etc. rather than sit on, invest and draw interest, etc. on their millions, that once these millionaires are dead and gone, they want be able to take 1 penny with them. So Christmas to me is Helping Others in Need, not swapping presents. If it is Jesus's birthday, why are WE swapping gifts? My son gets all excited at Christmas and I ask him all the time, WHY? He says because he wants lots of presents. I tell him, its Jesus's Birthday and how would he feel if on his (my son) birthday, which is on the 28th of December, if the whole world celebrated his (my son-Jacob) birthday and swapped gifts with everyone and didn't give (Jacob, my son) not 1 gift? He said he wouldn't like it and that it wouldn't be fair.

                        Where is Jesus's BirthDay Gift? Why does people buy each other gifts on his so-called Birthday and not even give a present to the Birthday Boy, himself? I think we should give instead of presents ,Good Deeds, by helping the poor, whether it be a nice meal, build them houses, etc, donate money to the poor to help them have a better life, not to charities, but go out and visit with the poor and personally give a good deed, money etc. to them because with charities, you really don't know who receives your money.

                        Peace to All,

                        Michele

                        [This message has been edited by GoodHeartedChic (edited December 27, 2001).]

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Well... Kimmy, I agree w/u!! It's hard seeing ppl call themselves Christians & not practice the Christian religion. Jesus is a BIG part of our religion & when ppl don't celebrate (His said date of birth) w/Him in total mind, it's not right. I'm sure, He notices this & those ppl (God bless them) He will take care of them. Just next time, when someone says something like that...tell them that that's not the meaning of Christmas...blah blah! I also, have noticed this, & I'm sure we're not the only Christians who have. At my church, before our preacher closed, he said "Everyone have a Merry Christmas, enjoy the turkey (it was a joke!!) but most of all remember why we celebrate Christmas, bc's of CHRIST!! Most ppl, around where I live... take Christmas seriously. So I can't say I see a WHOLE lot of ppl who don't practice Christmas the right way, but u better bet when someone tells me something like what they told u, I set em' straight! Really, that's all u can do (well, that & pray 4 those ppl)
                          & just make sure U always remember
                          'The TRUE Meaning Of Christmas'
                          Don't get me wrong, I luv getting gifts, but theres a LOT more to Christmas than that. The gifts are to celebrate a time of giving (to other ppl) that's why we have presents. Your right though, shouldn't we give all year? Shouldn't we celebrate Christ all year? Yes & YES!!! But u see that's all in our religion to know Christ & luv him & to be a good person. We will all be judged, sounds like yr on the right track That's all for now, I think I may make ppl on Gup go blind from looking at the screen too long trying to read my post, HeHe.

                          Just one more thing, once I was writing on my Moms' Christmas card "Merry Christmas" but instead of writing 'Merry Christmas' I simply wrote "Merry X~mas"
                          Well, my grandfather walked by, & he said "U know, I used to write Merry X~mas until, a friend of mine said "What are u trying to do? X Christ out??" CHRISTmas, do u see?

                          So, of couse to this day, (lol) I write the whole thing out!! Just a thought, but do u see how that friend, changed thing's? Just by his one little compliment!? Cause' now, netheir my papaw or I write
                          "Merry X~Mas" When u say something, exspecially something TRUE ppl pick up on that...OK, I've said my peace (HAHA) I hope u & yr family/friends had a Merry Christmas & it's nice to know that u rememberd Christ in yr celebration!!!!


                          p.s. Sorry if anyone wen't blind during the reading of this post! (hehe...)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I totally agree with all you. Those are really good points you all have. Thanks for sharing.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              From what I have heard ...

                              The question about Jesus Christ’s birthday came about in the second century AD. A sect (can’t remember the name) claimed that Jesus Christ was never born. They claimed that he did not have a human form. To counter this sect, the church decided to declare December 25th as the birthday of Christ. The reason for choosing this date was to make it coincide with a certain pagan festival and bring over more pagans to Christianity.
                              "A woman has got to be able to say, and not feel guilty, 'Who am I, and what do I want out of life?' She mustn't feel selfish and neurotic if she wants goals of her own, outside of husband and children"

                              Comment

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