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    #31
    Dear All,

    Note all oppressive verses that exists in Quran and other Abrahamic religions are equally voided by
    enlightened verses.

    There is Guidance in those scriptures but the Clergies (men) for all Abrahamic religions have chosen the oppressive guidance over the enlightened guidance.

    The Easy Solution is to Adopt an evolving Sharia'h that reflects time & place and stop claiming that the present Sharia'h (Practise) is for all Eternity.

    The present sharia'h for vast majority is based on the ayaths cited by Sarah while those cited by Shah Jehan exists on paper only.

    The Sharia'h can be EVOLVED to reflect the verses cited by Shah Jehan. There are verses DEMANDING EQUALITY as the following three, for example, but when it comes to practise the Men inherently choose the oppressive guidance and go to all lengths to protect & defend their turf.

    [al-Azab 33:35] Lo! men who surrender unto Allah, and women who surrender, and men who believe and women who believe, and men who obey and women who obey, and men who speak the truth and women who speak the truth, and men who persevere (in righteousness) and women who persevere, and men who are humble and women who are humble, and men who give alms and women who give alms, and men who fast and women who fast, and men who guard their modesty and women who guard (their modesty), and men who remember Allah much and women who remember - Allah hath prepared for them forgiveness and a vast reward.

    [2:187]They (your wives) are your garment and you are a garment for them.

    [35:18]No bearer of burdens shall be made to bear the burden of another.

    Something to ponder.

    Comment


      #32
      Now, if u can't understand other viewpoints other than your's, no one can do anything about it. U can ask the same thing till you're blue in the face and no matter how many ways some one tells u , it still won't make sense.

      I'm just not in the mood to write someone else's thesis.

      Don't the rest of you feel like suckersto be repeating the same thing over and over again to someone who has the same theme in all her threads?

      There's gotta be much better ways to spend your winter break than argue with someone who won't listen or do the grunt work for her thesis.

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        #33
        I sincerely believe that SS has a chip on her shoulder for some personal reason.

        The west has transformed substantially in the last century or two, depends on what youa re looking at. There was a time not far back when women in the west could not own property. Whereas, in Islam they have had these and better rights for 1400 years.

        The emancipated woman is in the eyes of ignorant people a boon. Let them find out how many women are single mothers and the man has used them for his physical pleasure and then walked off. This is prohibited in Islam. Women like SS need to clarify what they prefer, nitpicking on ayahs or being left with a child to raise without support from the man who made her pregnant.

        ------------------
        Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by FactFinder:
          I sincerely believe that SS has a chip on her shoulder for some personal reason.

          This is prohibited in Islam. Women like SS need to clarify what they prefer, nitpicking on ayahs or being left with a child to raise without support from the man who made her pregnant.
          Dear all,
          It is imperative for all to engage in their personal JOURNEY in SEARCH of the TRUTH/ANSWERS.

          For vast majority of muslims this JOURNEY is denied and introspection & QUERIES can lead to heresey - such is the state of islam of today.

          BOTTOM LINE - If Islam is for Peace and is Tolerant then be prepared to substantiate it in the practise (Sharia'h) of the Ummah as Sarah(SS) is demanding. That is her SEARCH and I commend her for it.

          If MAJORITY Islam cannot be substantiated as Peaceful or Tolerant then it is best that you do not pretend, provide lip-service and EQUATE Islam with Rahman & Rahim(Benevolent & Merciful) because it just will not cut it. One cannot call Allah - Benevolent & Merciful and have nothing in their practise that resembles those qualities.



          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by faceup:
            If MAJORITY Islam cannot be substantiated as Peaceful or Tolerant then it is best that you do not pretend, provide lip-service and EQUATE Islam with Rahman & Rahim(Benevolent & Merciful) because it just will not cut it.
            Ibrahim says; salaams to all,

            Getting confused faceup? Work on this two words , Islam & Muslims , you might understand better. IF Allah (swt) so willed

            Soon after, find out what Islam teaches…visit http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/003379.html

            Soon after find out why Muslims can go to hell or heaven depending on their works.

            Soon after, see if this makes sense to you

            No steam or gas drives anything until it is confined. No life ever grows until it is focused , dedicated and disciplined

            Thus if you find yourself being confined or restricted in Islam, it is because Allah (swt) wanted you to grow and fulfill His purpose not because of lack intolerance to your freedom to harm yourself.


            One cannot call Allah - Benevolent & Merciful
            Ibrahim says: getting even more confused faceup? Allah (swt) is the Creator and He says He is Most Gracious and Most Merciful and we know for sure that He is Most Gracious and Most Merciful, because you are still alive for uttering and doing all that you do

            and have nothing in their practise that resembles those qualities.
            Ibrahim says: Allah (swt) is the Creator and human beings are one of his creations , I am sure you learnt that , but I guess you misplaced it !

            Now the creations are being told to be good and given time to understand and practice such goodness by emulating the appointed teacher that are chosen by the Creator.

            Who should be blamed for failure, you are the Creator?

            DO SOMETHING. Either lead , follow or get out of the way

            Hope that helps,

            Was salaam
            Ibrahim

            Your attitude determines your altitude


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              #36
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                      #40
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                      [This message has been edited by Sarah Splendor (edited December 28, 2001).]

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by Sarah Splendor:
                        Ibrahim, if Allah is all that merciful as you and Him claim He is, then why are so many people dying? Why are there famines and the death of innocent people every second of every day? That's not an act of mercy, that is an act of tyranny.
                        Ibrahim says: salaams to all

                        Sarah, imagine yourself, growing old, and lets say Allah(swt) gave you a special privilege to so that you can keep on growing old, I assure you, you will be begging to HIM every second to give you death, if you don’t believe me, go and ask those that are bed ridden due to old age .

                        Hence death itself is a mercy at the same time, you may say why children and infants, innocent young people must die?

                        In order to understand that you must understand the purpose of life and the reason why we have been marooned on this planet in the first place!

                        To make this simple for you understand since you are still a child, lets say you made a doll and gave it capabilities to function on its own, surely you want to test it, right? , you want to know what it can achieve, and where it will fail, in order to do that you will put it to the test and make trials for it., right? Now imagine the doll is you and the one who created that doll is Allah (swt) …see that was simple to understand , wasn’t it?

                        Let me refer you to a scholar who explained a small passage in the Qur’an for you to understand why afflictions and calamities are a must for mankind who have been given “free will” to do what they chose to do on this planet.

                        The Purpose of tests and trials:

                        In the name of Allah, the Merciful, the Beneficent:

                        " Never did we send a prophet to any community but We did afflict its people with tribulation and adversity, so, that they may humble themselves"

                        "Then We replaced affliction with ease of life till, they grew affluent and increased in number" and said: "Our fathers also had their sorrows and joys."

                        "We then took them to task, all of a sudden, while they were totally unaware" (of what was happening to them)

                        Had the people of those communities believed and kept away from evil, We would have opened up for them blessings out of heaven and earth; but they gave the lie to the truth, and so, We took them to task for what they did.

                        (Al-Qur'an : The Heights: 7:94-96)

                        On these profound Qur'anic verses, a Muslim scholar Sayyid Qutb comments:

                        These verses come after the surah (chapter) gives a brief account of the history of several nations to whom prophets were sent. Shortly afterward the surah (chapter) relates in considerable detail, part of the history of Prophet Moses and his encounter with Pharaoh as well as the changing fortunes of the Israelites as they first respond well to the call of Moses, then, decide to worship the calf in preference to worshipping Allah.

                        Coming in between these accounts of the histories of former nations, these verses do not relate to a certain incident but they define a certain law of nature, which Allah, had established for human life.

                        These verses tell us that the fortunes of man on earth change according to HIS law. The divine message itself, important and serious as it certainly is, is simply a means of the operations of this law, which is, in turn greater and more comprehensive than the message.

                        We are told here that things do not just occur haphazardly, and man does not stand alone, as the atheist's claim. Whatever takes place is deliberate, occurs according to plan and contributes to the fulfillment of a certain objective

                        Beyond everything that takes place there is an unfailing law that operates according to the Absolute Will of Allah, WHO had defined the objective and set the law.
                        In the Islamic concept of life, man's will is an important factor in the movement of human history and in the interpretation of that history. But man's will and action, operate within the framework of Allah's absolute will and HIS destiny. Allah certainly encompasses everything in the universe. Man's will and actions have an interaction with the universe. There are certainly a host of factors, which influence human history but cannot be interpreted purely in economical or biological or in geographical terms.

                        "Never did We send a prophet to any community but We did afflict its people with tribulation and adversity, So that they may humble themselves".

                        When we read this, divine statement, the ancient legends which speak of deities and gods who nurse their grudges against human beings, sound absurd.

                        There is certainly a purpose for Allah's infliction of tribulation and adversity on those who reject the prophets sent to them and the messages they deliver .

                        Adversity, by nature, awakens the natural instincts, which may yet do their work. It may soften hearts, which have been hardened through being accustomed to going astray.


                        Adversity may, indeed, make humans who are weak, turn to their CREATOR, Who is powerful and mighty. They may humble themselves, before HIM, pray for HIS forgiveness and submit themselves to HIM.

                        Allah certainly does not need men's worship or their submission to HIM. Worship and submission to Allah are of benefit to men themselves. When men declares his submission to Allah alone, he frees himself from slavery to anyone else, especially to Satan, who wants to lead people astray and enslave them to their desires and caprice. They are free from subjugation by other human beings. They feel ashamed to listen to satan and do his bidding and they feel ashamed to incur Allah's anger by their own action, if, they humble themselves and pray to HIM, only in times of difficulty and hardship.
                        All this helps them, to stick to the right path. Thus they liberate and purify themselves. This also enables them to lift themselves over their desires and refuse to submit themselves to subjugation by other human beings.

                        Thus it has been the divine will that every community who rejects the message of the Prophet sent to them by Allah are to be afflicted with tribulation, adversity and misfortune in their souls . In the hope that all this, affliction, will revive their hearts.

                        Pain , physical and mental, is a great educator, which taps the fountains of goodness in the human soul. It refines consciences and directs man to the source of mercy, which gives comfort to the weak and the afflicted: "So that they may humble themselves".

                        "Then we replaced affliction with ease of life". Ease, prosperity, abundance, good health, numerous children, and security replace hardship, poverty sickness, sterility and fear. Two totally different situations, but both are indeed tests and trials for mankind.

                        Why do we have to be indebted to God? I don't recall ever asking to be created so why should I bow down to a narcissist God instead of cultivating my own potential?
                        Ibrahim says: Because your life is not yours , it has only been given to you for you to WAKE UP. So don’t postpone your awakening!

                        Because even the air that you breath is a mercy from Allah (swt), If He chose to remove it you will cry like hell for life.

                        I am sure you get my point but your rebellious nature will not seize until you listen to your conscience and Allah (swt) had so willed to guide you.

                        Was salaam
                        Ibrahim


                        Remember Him in prosperity and He will remember you in adversity

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