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Does Religion Contradict Science? (part 2) The Big Bang Theory

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    Does Religion Contradict Science? (part 2) The Big Bang Theory

    The Big bang theory

    The data gained in this century indicate that the universe had an explosive origin. It came into existence from "nothing". The universe had a beginnig and this beginnig owes itself to an explosion called the "Big Bang". Today, the Big Bang Theory is accepted by the majority of the scientific circles.

    According to the theory, some 15 billion years ago, all materials making up the earth today, were originally reduced into one single point. This single point with no volume had an infinite density and an infinite temperature. This period before the big explosion (in fact we can even not call it a period, since there was no matter, there was also no concept of time) was a state in which there was no universe. The only word that can explain such a state is "nothingness or nullity". The theory follows that with the effect of such a big explosion, the ultimate condensed density of materials dispersed with rapid velocities. In other words, the Big Explosion started to "exist" from "nothing".

    Today, the verification of the expansion of the universe is the most substantial evidence for Big Bang theory.

    "In 1929, E.P. Hubble examined the frequency shift of the light from distant galaxies. He found that the light was red shifted (its frequency decreased) as he looked at increasingly distant galaxies, and thus he was the first to verify that the galaxies are receding from us with relative velocities that increase in proportion to the distance." Encylopedia Americana , Volume 9, p. 294

    For instance, Ursa- Major Group of stars which is at a distance of 1 billion light year from the world, recedes 1.500 kilometers in a second. Hidra group of stars, on the other hand, which is much farther from us, recedes 6.000 kilometers in a second.

    Since the universe expands, there should be a moment at which this expansion started. As New Scientist (May 12, 1988, p.52) puts forth, if there was a possibility to reverse this expansion, then everything could be merged some 15 billion years ago at a single mathematical point having an infinite density.

    The most important significance of the Big Bang theory lies in its verification that the universe had a starting point. Apart from that, we should clarify here a misunderstanding. Some people think that Allah created the universe through Big Bang and then left everything on its own. The same logic follows that Allah only initiated the occurance of the universe and then the process spontaneously proceeded. However this is totally wrong. In the universe, Big Bang is actually the first movement that can be calculated. It is certainly improbable that all the universe came into existence as as result of a random explosion and then everything spontaneously had a perfect system in itself in the preceeding stages of this explosion. Nobody can arrive to a conclusion that galaxies, star systems and the solar system came into existence as a result of the dispersed particles of an explosion which inherited no laws within itself. It is even not possible to talk of a spontaneous occurance of a single atom, bearing in mind the very complex systems it has.

    So how come the universe, with all the complexity it possesses, be the sole outcome of a random explosion? They are all created with the ultimate Power of Allah. The Qur’an informs us that Allah created the "heavens", the earth and all the living things. Similarly, the Qur’anic verses state that Allah constantly encompasses all living things:

    It is He Who gave you life, will cause you to die, and will again give you life: Truly man is a most ungrateful creature! Surah Al- Hajj 22

    He rules (all) affairs from the heavens to the earth: in the end will (all affairs) go up to Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be (as) a thousand years of your reckoning. Surah Al- Sajdah 5

    Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge. Surah Al- Talaq 12

    Today Big Bang is accepted to be the most consistent theory about the origin of the universe. There are some objections made to the theory, yet they are basically related to the highly complicated stages of the formation of the universe occurring at the other stages of Big Bang. Today, the factors playing role in the formation of atoms, stars and galaxies are not exactly known. Yet, just as how Allah created man from a drop of water, He created some factors for the creation of the Universe. The starting point of these factors well may be an explosion or something different. No stage can come into being without the control of Allah. Consequently, the perfection in the creation manifests the ultimate Power and Intelligence of Allah:
    All the universe is created in a way to serve man as the verse below suggests:

    He has made subject to you the Night and the Day; the sun and the moon; and the stars are in subjection by His Command: verily in this are Signs for men who are wise. Surah Al- Nahl 12

    All the information related to the creation of the earth and the universe, revealed by the Qur’an is in compliance with what science today indicates.

    (to be continued)

    Mr. Extreme
    Are you, in your convoluted ways, questioning the existence of God?


      Jazaak'Allaah khair brother Mr Xtreme

      AdbulMalick, stop brewing more of your infamous mischief in the cauldron in stiring up trouble by twisting words and meanings, subhaan'Allaah.

      You may plot to lead others astray, but remember, Allaah is the Best of Plotters.


        Sorry Xtreme,
        I see a mistake and it brings down all your arguments!

        >The most important significance of the Big Bang theory lies in its verification that the Universe had a starting point.<

        This is not true. The Big Bang theory says, the present stage of the universe is due to the big bang, but it doesn't claim that the universe started with it, that is a popular misinterpretation. And since you had mentioned the contraction idea, also called the Big Crunch, the present hypothesis is that our universe has been oscillating in Big Bangs and Big Crunches in a state of oscillation. Some people like to call it the periodical birth and death of our universe, rather dramatic folk

        Qur'an and bible may be made to look scientific after a helluva lot of imaginative head scratching, but it's no use, people won't accept science once they have religion, coz thatz the way social poison acts.
        Simple ain't easy.


          adbul malick

          There is nothing I can say to you that a can of parrafin and a blowtorch couldn't say better.


          Strictly speaking, it is not good practice to try to prove or disprove the Qur'an from a scientific point of view. The Qur'an can only be proved by the language challenge in the Qur'an for disbelievers to bring something like it.

          The reason for this is that much of scientific thought is in fact no more than theory, as in the case you mentioned.

          This is not true. The Big Bang theory says, the present stage of the universe is due to the big bang, but it doesn't claim that the universe started with it, that is a popular misinterpretation.
          A theory is neither proven nor dis-proven so Qur'an cannot really be judged by it.

          These articles are for interest rather than trying to prove something one way or the other. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

          [This message has been edited by Mr Xtreme (edited June 24, 1999).]


            I get the idea, please do carry on, it is quite interesting.

            Just one question please, when you are reluctant to accept scientific theories built upon years of observation and cerebration of the most intelligent people on earth, how is it that you accept the Qur'an as the truth ? What is the proof that it is indeed the message of God? After all, it could all have been just an attempt by the prophet (pbuh) to reconcile people and make them follow a certain path ? ( Now please don't think I am abusing the prophet, in my thoughts as an atheist, he is a great man because he managed to unite so many people and make them work together for generations). The Qur'an could but just be a book whose verses should not to be taken literally? What do you say?
            Simple ain't easy.



              There is nothing I can say to you that a can of parrafin and a blowtorch couldn't say better.
              ... ha! That was hilarious!


                queer....for such people who do not believe in the Quran....Allah has given them open challange to make any verse similar to that of Quran.
                Can't all those "intelligent" people make a single verse over a time period of 1400 years?



                  Have you read the whole Quraan recently?


                    I don't see why one can't write up some verses similar to the Qur'an. Probably many people did indeed do so too, only thing, no man with the leadership qualities of Mohammad Nabi(pbuh) was involved.

                    Anyway, let's come back to the question. Why trust the Qur'an as the unchanging truth?
                    Simple ain't easy.


                      to tell you the truth, i haven't read the Qur'an at all.
                      Simple ain't easy.


                        I sincerely appreciate your honesty very much Queer.
                        The Quraan, when you read it, is the most profound piece of literature that one can imagine. Not only in its meaning but in its poetry, scientific evidence, etc. etc,

                        I strongly recommend you read see for yourself.

                        And Allah Knows best.

                        [This message has been edited by Sakinah (edited June 25, 1999).]



                          for one thing, i don't know arabic, both script and language, the english translation doesn't sound the least bit poetic.

                          Another thing that dissuades me from the Qur'an is that most people on this forum who claim to be well versed with the Qur'an don't seem to show any kind of tolerance to others beliefs. They claim Qur'an is the truth, but don't hesitate from using foul language and maledictions at others who try to question the Qur'an. If it indeed is the truth, then why can't it stand questioning? This attitude makes me feel that these muslims are indeed afraid that the Qur'an might not be able to stand critcism.

                          If "the truth" says that only people who believe in finality of the prophet are going to be rewarded with heaven irrespective of what other's deeds might be, it doesn't sound the least bit logical. Logical thinking cannot be irreligious or sacrilegious because man is an intellectual being endowed with the weapon of rational thinking by God himself if you believe in him. The above question of who will go to heaven was a fiery thread where Qur'an was relentlessly quoted by the muslims and it was "proved" that non muslims wont go to heaven. Some truth!

                          Another is the idea of glorification of [interpreted] violence in Islam and it's [interpreted] support from Qur'an. The whole world is reeling under the terrorism of the so called "mujahideen". And they enjoy [their self-interpreted] support from Qur'an literates in their barbaric crimes against humanity.

                          Moreover, Qur'an is interpreted literally, it seems to dictate exact numbers in some cases, for example, the number of times in a day to perform Namaz, no: of wives permitted ,number of houris in jannath,..etc etc.. Faith can never be measured in numbers.

                          Either the Qur'an is not logical or the people who claim to be scholars of the Qur'an are not truly muslims.

                          there are lots and lots more points like the above that i find unsatisfactory. I'd like to see you justify the few i have mentioned.

                          [This message has been edited by Roman (edited June 27, 1999).]
                          Simple ain't easy.


                            queer - Be careful when you issue subjective statements about any religious scriptures... specially when you have not read them yourself.



                              Before I attempt to address the issues you have raised, I would like you to take note of a few things :

                              1. I am NO scholar of Islaam and therefore anything I say may be subject to correction by someone more knowledgeable or well-versed in Islaam.
                              2. I request you DO NOT judge what I say purely on the knowledge that I am a Muslim.
                              3. I do not wish to make any assumptions about who you are or what beliefs you hold, because you sound like an adult, and you will surely have some justification to believe (or not believe) what you do...I therefore am mindful of addressing you without any prejudice or preconceptions.
                              4. I ACCEPT that EVERYONE is different ...if you don't like what I say...thats life! I accept I am not always right and I DO NOT KNOW IT ALL...

                              Firstly, the reason I asked you if you had read the Quraan and subsequently suggested you read it was because you were making statements about the Quraan which indicated that you were not familiar with the text. I did not wish to make an assumption about my feelings and therefore asked you to confirm this. As you have not read it yourself, your comments about it are deemed the same mine would if I were to comment on Salman Rushdie's "Satanic Verses" for example, as I have not read it and anything I could say about it would either be second-hand and hence subject to another person's view i.e. loaded with the influence of their world-view and perhaps carrying their prejudices etc. or based purely on conjecture. Thus I suggested you read it so you could form your own opinion. What you felt about it after reading it would perhaps carry more weight and you would be entitled to whatever opinion you formed.

                              With regard to knowing the Arabic text, until you do, there is absolutely NO WAY that you could recognise the real beauty of the Quraan, although reading a translation and listening to the recitation of the Quraan may sow the seeds of this and is known commonly to encourage individuals to learn Arabic purely to be able to read Quraan in its original form. Further I disagree that the Quraan is not poetic in its English translation, I think it does maintain some of its poetic essence even when translated into another language...perhaps that's just a difference of opinion...although I am curious to know how you formed this opinion as you claim never to have read it...

                              Secondly, I think it is wholly unfair, rather short-sighted and loaded with prejudice of anyone (myself included) to judge any ideology, belief, set of values, based on the behaviour of those individuals who ascribe themselves to it. This, you will note, is something that I have mentioned in another post ("What is Agnosticism"). For example, just because a group of individuals who call themselves a Cricket team lose a world-cup final claiming they are cricketers(!) doesn't mean the rules of Cricket are faulty?? And there is ABSOLUTELY NO justification in Islaam for using foul-language towards ANYONE.
                              In the same way that a person gets offended when their family is insulted, many Muslims (and advocates of other religions (as is evident on this forum)) are offended when their beliefs are insulted...and people react in different ways..
                              Who's perfect? I think it is not entirely fair to say it is Muslims alone that are foul-mouthed on this forum, anyway

                              With regard to criticism, IN MY OPINION, as with any discipline there are students and teachers. For example, if you wish to criticise the theory of relativity, Einstein would be the person to ask! It is likely one of his students or latter day advocates would not have the understanding and/or the basis to address your criticism in the same way, he as a teacher would. Further, a Physics teacher would amongst the latter have more of a basis that your average A' Level physics student. Therefore if you are posing your criticism of the Quraan to a set a of individuals who perhaps are not as well-versed in the Quraan you may, as a result of their lack of knowledge combined with their personalities etc., get the type of reaction you are getting. I think people are afraid to say "I don't know" in case their egos are dented...and "I don't know", does not equate with "no-one knows".

                              I believe if you have enquired about something as much as you can and have saturated your sources than you can be satisfied that you have made an informed decision about it, and then you can ACCEPT or REJECT...that's your look out.
                              I am not well-versed enough with the Quraan to address all the criticism that may be made of it, but I firmly believe that they CAN be addressed, and make no excuses about that. When the evidence is presented ACCEPT or REJECT...

                              Regarding logic, I do not believe that logic/ration is an end. I believe these are tools to be used with other tools. For example, we are all aware of our consciousness, but logic alone cannot provide the evidence for its existence. I as a Muslim do not deny logical thinking and agree that it is something that we have been given by our Creator, but I also believe it is one of many tools we have been given to understand the world we live in and should be used with our other faculties. ...Further, one cannot look at an issue like "who gets to Heaven and Who goes to Hell", or indeed the idea of ration, in isolation. These are complex issues and need to be put into context and viewed in light of their wider implications...I don't know what the rulings are with regards to going to Heaven or Hell. Given my limited knowledge, I do not wish to embark on this line of discussion. And, Allah ALONE knows the end of each individual. If I could add, you by saying. "Some truth!" at the end of a paragraph have fallen into the same category as others you accuse of being judgmental and insulting.

                              What you describe as the glorification of violence, in the Quraan, (which you have not read) is a subjective opinion clearly based on conjecture. I disagree. All societies have their rules of war and the Quraan simply defines its own. Again the actions of individuals cannot determine the strength of the ideology they ascribe to. I will be the first to say that Islaam, as with all other religion is being used to fulfil the ends of selfish people around the world who manipulate. I do not wish to get into a political discussion here, (there is another forum for that) but I believe there are other actions, that fall clearly into the definition of "terrorism", in the world that are being carried out by the very individuals that coin these terms for their political and greedy ends.

                              Regarding the use of numbers in Islaam. Mathematics, is a simply a universal way of understanding things. Who says faith can be measured? Just because someone prays 5 times a day does NOT mean they are a good Muslim. Again, things need to be put into the context of their wider meaning.

                              I think your statement that "either the Quraan is not logical...or..the scholars are not truly Muslims" is based on too many assumptions,...the issue of logic alone has been addressed already, regarding the scholars not being truly Muslim, Islaam (as I know it) states that the Muslims will be split over time and one group of people will remain throughout time that will be always have the correct understanding of in my mind all of the Islaamic Scholars cannot be pigeon-holed.

                              I hope this has addressed the issues you have raised and would like to say that this is NOT a JUSTIFICATION of my beliefs as you have requested...I do NOT need to justify MY beliefs to anyone. .I accept there are differences in everyone and all I can talk about is what is true to me...if someone else disagrees then..hey...that's life!

                              I would like to reiterate that the only reason I posted the original question about whether or not you had read the Quraan was to due to a feeling I had that you had not read it, and if you had said that you had read it then I would have respected your opinion as informed. I SIMPLY recommended that you read the Quraan so you could decide for yourself...if you don't want to read it then, that's your choice...but your opinion will continue to be uninformed. I do not wish to enter into long discussions about who's right and who's wrong (and I hope what I have written does not read that way because that was not my intention). Let's face it you could go on forever..... All I can do is share what I believe because it is so beautiful and others can ACCEPT or REJECT or like or dislike...

                              END OF.....

                              And Allah Knows BEST.