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    Brahmins.

    I recently read that the Brahmin Priestly class used to be Butchers who slaughtered meat for ceremonial purposes. However, due to a shortage of cattle in ancient India this was outlawed and they adopted vegetarianism and promoted it. How true is this hypothesis?
    http://free.freespeech.org/india100/rama.htm

    #2
    Originally posted by Wadi:
    I recently read that the Brahmin Priestly class used to be Butchers who slaughtered meat for ceremonial purposes.
    Ibrahim says; The term “Brahmin” would be the followers of Prophet Epram which was later changed to Prophet Epraheem /Ibrahim/Abraham ( pbuh)

    This is similar to the Followers of Prophet Eesa (pbuh) calling themselves Christians .

    What Generally happens is that they were called the “Believers” ( Muslims) but as they evolved they altered their teachings and hence God chose another set of people and re established the truth with the new group whilst rejecting the earlier group Hence the later group became known as Muslims with a revealed book entrusted to them . Since there was a now conflict of interest between the earlier set of Muslims and the newly established Muslims, the earlier group chose a name that best described themselves out of pride to remain separate from what has been newly established by Allah (swt)

    In this manner those who followed Prophet Ibrahim {pbuh} ended up b*****ng themselves as Brahmins and those that followed Christ ended up b*****ng themselves as Christians even though they were originally called Muslims at the time the message was kept intact by its followers, and the true believers remained known as “ Muslims “ all the time.

    In answer to your question , it is true that meat was approved for the followers of prophet Ibrahim (pbuh} with some exceptions just like Muslims. As mentioned in http://free.freespeech.org/india100/rama.htm

    [quote] However, due to a shortage of cattle in ancient India this was outlawed and they adopted vegetarianism and promoted it. How true is this hypothesis? [/qyuote]


    This is untrue since the Prophets prior to Prophet Nuh ( pbuh) were all vegetarians and the approval for the consummation of meat was only approved after the flood . hence those Hindus who believed only vegetarianism was approved for mankind are still stuck with the laws of the Vedic religion as it is known today by the Hindus, that had been practiced by Prophet Adam (pbuh) and his children right up to Prophet Nuh (pbuh)

    This can be proven by the use of the Bible and the Qur’an which provides conclusive evidence for them.

    Read

    Genesis 9

    1. Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth.

    2. The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands.


    3. Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.


    Qur’an

    23.28 And when thou hast embarked on the Ark - thou and those with thee,- say:
    "Praise be to Allah, Who has saved us from the people who do wrong."

    23.29 And say: "O my Lord! enable me to disembark with thy blessing: for Thou art the Best to enable (us) to disembark."

    23.30 Verily in this there are Signs (for men to understand); (thus) do We try (men).

    23.31 Then We raised after them another generation.


    Ibrahim says; Hence the earlier generation and its laws were abolished , the new generation that had a new set of laws came only after Prophet Nuh (pbuh) after the flood and the Leader/head of this new generation is Prophet Epraheem/Ibrahim (pbuh)

    Hence the consumption of animals ( meat) was approved only after prophet Nuh (pbuh) , which the Hindus have failed to realize.
    Hope this helps……..


    Comment


      #3
      Wadi, that's one of the theories about the sacrd cow! Hopefully our Hindu guppies can say a little more about it.

      Ibrahim says; The term “Brahmin” would be the followers of Prophet Epram which was later changed to Prophet Epraheem /Ibrahim/Abraham ( pbuh)
      Interesting. Do you have proof regarding this?
      I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
      - Robert McCloskey

      Comment


        #4
        Ibrahim a very interesting post. Two things I wuold like you to expand upon.

        1) I've never heard of Brahmins being followers of Prophet Ibrahim. Can you please give some proof or links that support that claim.

        2) The Ancient Prophets used to be all vege's? I haven't heard of that either.

        If those two claims are true than thanks for some very enlightening information.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Wadi:
          1) I've never heard of Brahmins being followers of Prophet Ibrahim
          Ibrahim says; That’s for sure anyone who goes round revealing such things is going to be slammed against the wall and likely be killed . But this facts are based on the Hindu scriptures and researchers are unraveling this matters in this current time frame and although earliest info about the correlation of eastern myths being mixed with other religions and originating from western religions were published as early as 1935, it is still being suppressed by Hindu fundamentalists. May take another few hundred years before this might get a foothold in their thoughts.

          Can you please give some proof or links that support that claim.
          Ibrahim says; this is based on tracing the identity of Brahma, hence when one realizes that Brahma had an abode which was described in detail in the hindu scriptures and that abode has been traced as the Ka’bah, it becomes undeniable that Brahma is actually alluding to prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) .

          Atharva Veda X, 2, 28: [On Ka’bah]

          Whether it is built high, its walls are in a straight line or not, but God is seen in every corner of it. He who knows the House of God, knows it because God is remembered there.


          The Ka’bah is not exactly cubical and its sides are not of the same length. The Holy Sanctuary (Haram) of which Ka’abah is at the center remains open day and night throughout the year and it is always filled with people praying to Allah (the One True God). Muslims face toward it during prayer forming circle in the Haram (Holy House) and the circle extends out in this manner throughout the planet Earth.

          Atharva Veda X, 2, 31:[On Holy Sanctuary (House) and Ka’bah]

          This abode of the angels has eight circuits and nine gates. It is unconquerable, there is eternal life in it and it is resplendent with Divine light.


          The holy sanctuary (Haram) of which Ka’bah is at the center remains open day and night throughout the year and it is always filled with people praying and supplicating to Allah (the One True God). It has remained unconquerable. Abraha Al-Ashram, the Abbysinian viceroy of Yemen, tried to demolish it in 570 CE with a strong army and hordes of elephants but was prevented from entering the city (Holy precinct). The people of Makkah had decided not to defend the Ka'bah, fled the city and took refuge in nearby hills overlooking Ka'bah. By Allah’s Command, the 'Abaabeel' (flying creatures, birds) pelted stones at Abraha's army and decimated it, leaving them like green crops devoured by cattle. This incident is described in the Surah (chapter) 105 of the Qur’an. The year 570 CE is popularly known by the Arabs as ‘The year of the Elephant,’ and Prophet Muhammad was born in that year.
          Dr. Vidyarthi points out the following facts. The House of God has nine gates - Baab-e-Ibrahim (Abraham) , Baab-al-Wedaa, Baab-as-Safa, Baab-e-Ali, Baab-e-Abbas, Baab-un-Nabi, Baab-as-Salaam, Baab-az-Ziyarat, and Baab-e-Haram. Further, the eight circuits are the natural lines enclosing the areas between the surrounding hills, the names of which are: Jabal-e-Khaleej, Jabal-e-Qaiqaon, Jabal-e-Hindi, Jabal-e-Laalaa, Jabal-e-Keda, Jabal-e-Abu Hadidah, Jabal-e-Abi Qabees, and Jabal-e-Umar.

          Atharva Veda X, 2, 33: [On Abraham and more on Holy Sanctuary and Ka’bah]

          Brahma (Abraham) stayed in this abode which is illumined by heavenly light and covered with Divine blessings. It is the place that gives (spiritual) life to the people and is unconquerable.


          The Ka’bah was built by Prophets Abraham and Ismail. It has remained unconquerable as explained in the preceding verse. Many verses of the Holy Qur’an and of the Old Testament in the Bible describe the divine blessings in this Holy house.

          In addition to texts found in the veda, the under mentioned texts found in the SVETASVATARA UPANISHAD goes one step further to establish the Ka’bah as the house of God ( as it was known in the past)

          chapter 3:

          17. Separate from all the senses, yet reflecting the qualities of all the senses, it is the lord and ruler of all, it is the great refuge of all.

          18. The embodied spirit within the town with nine gates, the bird, flutters outwards, the ruler of the whole world, of all that rests and of all that moves.

          19. Grasping without hands, hasting without feet, he sees without eyes, he hears without ears. He knows what can be known, but no one knows him; they call him the first, the great person .

          hence the City called Navadvaare Pure = in the place where there are nine gates , has been clearly identified as the Ka’bah in Makkah.

          Now the question is why would the hindu scriptures have such mention of the Ka’bah if they were actually considered an eastern religion having no relation with Islam?

          For a full treatment of some hindu scriptures and their relation to Islam kindly visit http://www.islam-mauritius.org/hindunislam.htm

          2) The Ancient Prophets used to be all vege's? I haven't heard of that either.
          Ibrahim says; The bible verses I quoted earlier plus evidence of who the 14 Manus are in hindu scriptures fully attest to the fact that the 7th Manu in Hinduism was prophet Nuh ( who was saved from the flood by a fish—according to hindu mythology) . Animals were forbidden from consumption prior to Prophet Nuh (pbuh) and hence all earlier Prophets had to be vegetarians.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Ibrahim:
            Ibrahim says; this is based on tracing the identity of Brahma, hence when one realizes that Brahma had an abode which was described in detail in the hindu scriptures and that abode has been traced as the Ka’bah, it becomes undeniable that Brahma is actually alluding to prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) .

            Atharva Veda X, 2, 28: [On Ka’bah]

            Whether it is built high, its walls are in a straight line or not, but God is seen in every corner of it. He who knows the House of God, knows it because God is remembered there.


            The Ka’bah is not exactly cubical and its sides are not of the same length. The Holy Sanctuary (Haram) of which Ka’abah is at the center remains open day and night throughout the year and it is always filled with people praying to Allah (the One True God). Muslims face toward it during prayer forming circle in the Haram (Holy House) and the circle extends out in this manner throughout the planet Earth.

            Atharva Veda X, 2, 31:[On Holy Sanctuary (House) and Ka’bah]

            This abode of the angels has eight circuits and nine gates. It is unconquerable, there is eternal life in it and it is resplendent with Divine light.


            The holy sanctuary (Haram) of which Ka’bah is at the center remains open day and night throughout the year and it is always filled with people praying and supplicating to Allah (the One True God). It has remained unconquerable. Abraha Al-Ashram, the Abbysinian viceroy of Yemen, tried to demolish it in 570 CE with a strong army and hordes of elephants but was prevented from entering the city (Holy precinct). The people of Makkah had decided not to defend the Ka'bah, fled the city and took refuge in nearby hills overlooking Ka'bah. By Allah’s Command, the 'Abaabeel' (flying creatures, birds) pelted stones at Abraha's army and decimated it, leaving them like green crops devoured by cattle. This incident is described in the Surah (chapter) 105 of the Qur’an. The year 570 CE is popularly known by the Arabs as ‘The year of the Elephant,’ and Prophet Muhammad was born in that year.
            Dr. Vidyarthi points out the following facts. The House of God has nine gates - Baab-e-Ibrahim (Abraham) , Baab-al-Wedaa, Baab-as-Safa, Baab-e-Ali, Baab-e-Abbas, Baab-un-Nabi, Baab-as-Salaam, Baab-az-Ziyarat, and Baab-e-Haram. Further, the eight circuits are the natural lines enclosing the areas between the surrounding hills, the names of which are: Jabal-e-Khaleej, Jabal-e-Qaiqaon, Jabal-e-Hindi, Jabal-e-Laalaa, Jabal-e-Keda, Jabal-e-Abu Hadidah, Jabal-e-Abi Qabees, and Jabal-e-Umar.

            Atharva Veda X, 2, 33: [On Abraham and more on Holy Sanctuary and Ka’bah]

            Brahma (Abraham) stayed in this abode which is illumined by heavenly light and covered with Divine blessings. It is the place that gives (spiritual) life to the people and is unconquerable.


            The Ka’bah was built by Prophets Abraham and Ismail. It has remained unconquerable as explained in the preceding verse. Many verses of the Holy Qur’an and of the Old Testament in the Bible describe the divine blessings in this Holy house.

            In addition to texts found in the veda, the under mentioned texts found in the SVETASVATARA UPANISHAD goes one step further to establish the Ka’bah as the house of God ( as it was known in the past)

            chapter 3:

            17. Separate from all the senses, yet reflecting the qualities of all the senses, it is the lord and ruler of all, it is the great refuge of all.

            18. The embodied spirit within the town with nine gates, the bird, flutters outwards, the ruler of the whole world, of all that rests and of all that moves.

            19. Grasping without hands, hasting without feet, he sees without eyes, he hears without ears. He knows what can be known, but no one knows him; they call him the first, the great person .

            hence the City called Navadvaare Pure = in the place where there are nine gates , has been clearly identified as the Ka’bah in Makkah.

            Now the question is why would the hindu scriptures have such mention of the Ka’bah if they were actually considered an eastern religion having no relation with Islam?

            For a full treatment of some hindu scriptures and their relation to Islam kindly visit http://www.islam-mauritius.org/hindunislam.htm

            2) The Ancient Prophets used to be all vege's? I haven't heard of that either.
            Ibrahim says; The bible verses I quoted earlier plus evidence of who the 14 Manus are in hindu scriptures fully attest to the fact that the 7th Manu in Hinduism was prophet Nuh ( who was saved from the flood by a fish—according to hindu mythology) . Animals were forbidden from consumption prior to Prophet Nuh (pbuh) and hence all earlier Prophets had to be vegetarians.


            Ibrahim u have some infos to support ur views on this.but i have a very simple question to ask to u....do u know all most all the hindu epics and other scripts hadbeen written long before the concept of islam was originated?

            if ur answer is `yes'then we can arrive in this conclusion....islam is a modern phase of hinduuism....


            ................ am i right?

            Comment


              #7
              brahmins ate meat and even beef during vedic times. many historians say so. vegetarianism is legacy of buddhism and jainism which came later. when hinduism assimilated these religions, brahmins also adopted vegetarianism.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by ZZ:
                brahmins ate meat and even beef during vedic times. many historians say so. vegetarianism is legacy of buddhism and jainism which came later. when hinduism assimilated these religions, brahmins also adopted vegetarianism.
                one such example is pandavas story when a crow tried to eat the fishes they caught.......


                but i am not sure whether influence of Budha or Jaina refrained them from eating meat....

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by mr.great:
                  one such example is pandavas story when a crow tried to eat the fishes they caught.......


                  but i am not sure whether influence of Budha or Jaina refrained them from eating meat....

                  pandavas were kshatriyas, fighter class. they have always ate meat. only brahmins turned vegetarian (except bengali brahmins, who, for whatever reasons, declare that fish is vegetarian)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Wow! Abrahram was a hindu? that's great, how many other prohets were hindus?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Infoman:
                      Wow! Abrahram was a hindu? that's great, how many other prohets were hindus?
                      perhaps a corrollary (contradicting though) of saying "Hindus were followers of Abraham before they modified their religion".

                      ------------------
                      We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Changez_like:
                        perhaps a corrollary (contradicting though) of saying "Hindus were followers of Abraham before they modified their religion".

                        Wow, so all the religions that sprouted from Abraham are actually based on hinduism.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by mr.great:
                          Ibrahim u have some infos to support ur views on this.but i have a very simple question to ask to u....do u know all most all the hindu epics and other scripts hadbeen written long before the concept of islam was originated?
                          Ibrahim says; Not so, you see there was ONLY one religion that was sent by the ONE Creator , that was revealed to mankind through numerous messengers and prophets but man did chose to alter it , when they did such things they ended up naming it as Vedic religion aka Brahmanism aka Hinduism, By one set of people and another set people ended up naming it Judaism and Christianity.

                          Hence the original religion that was revealed to mankind was Islam ( submission to the Creator ) could have been known by different names in different languages at different time frames but basically the principals were the same.

                          What the altered Hindu scriptures conveys in principal concerning the Creator are basically what Islam also conveys, the reason for the misconceptions are due to later alteration and corruption of revealed texts.

                          if ur answer is `yes'then we can arrive in this conclusion....islam is a modern phase of hinduuism.... ................ am i right?[/
                          Ibrahim says; No, Islam is the original scripture and message and Hinduism is the altered and deviated teachings that had its origin in Islam.


                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Ibrahim:
                            Ibrahim says; No, Islam is the original scripture and message and Hinduism is the altered and deviated teachings that had its origin in Islam.

                            According to you. Does the quran mention that? Does the Quran mention Hinduism or Buddhism specifically or is it just talking in vague generalities, like Nostradamus?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Ibrahim says; Not so, you see there was ONLY one religion that was sent by the ONE Creator , that was revealed to mankind through numerous messengers and prophets but man did chose to alter it , when they did such things they ended up naming it as Vedic religion aka Brahmanism aka Hinduism, By one set of people and another set people ended up naming it Judaism and Christianity.

                              Hence the original religion that was revealed to mankind was Islam ( submission to the Creator ) could have been known by different names in different languages at different time frames but basically the principals were the same.

                              What the altered Hindu scriptures conveys in principal concerning the Creator are basically what Islam also conveys, the reason for the misconceptions are due to later alteration and corruption of revealed texts.
                              __________________________________________________ ______________

                              How do you know that only one religion was sent by one creator, or that if Islam is the final version of that religion. If you are basing this on the quran then others need independent proof. You can't use the quran to justify what is said in the quran. That's circular logic. That's like someone saying, "you'er wrong" Why? "because I said so" huh!

                              Comment

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