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    actions of a true muslim??

    I read that Osama bowed to Allah and thanked him, when he "heard" of the WTC incident..

    now, is that the response of a true muslim?

    remember the taif incident, when the prophet was asked if he wanted to destroy the ppl of that city and he said NO.

    Osama (if he was responsible) destroyed a masjid in the WTC along with a lot of muslims as well. the laws of war in Islam clearly state the rules that need to be followed in war, and what happened in NY goes against everything Islam holds dear.

    I just fely like ranting.


    #2
    Agree. Not solely Muslim civilians, but all civilians, deserve to be protected. Whoever committed these terrorist attacks can't hide behind any religious principles to "justify" it. Claiming the life of one innocent person is akin to killing all of humanity, according to Islam.

    Comment


      #3
      Nomaan,
      you heard it. You have proofs? How you know this is right or wrong...Rumours are every where.
      God knows best. So leave it to God.

      ------------------
      “na maiN momin vich masiitaaN, na maiN muusaa, na fir'aun!”
      Ain't new ta this....HOMEINVASION('93)

      Comment


        #4
        Ok, tell me this. What is Osama actually doing?

        Leave all the rumors about him behind. What is his story? Does he sell candy? Is he a shop keeper? What does he do? I don't want to know his mission. I just want to know how me spends his time and money

        Comment


          #5
          Nomaan,

          Am I God to judge this? I don't have proofs so I won't blame anyone. America didn't even have proofs for the previous WTC bombings neither proofs that he had chemical weapon industry in Sudan nor that he had pilots in his camp. Still they are hunting him.
          Why should we play GOD?! We have Allah (swt) for it so leave it to him.
          Don't you think?! When he and his companions killed Russian Soldiers none of these American politician said a single word. WHY?!

          ------------------
          “na maiN momin vich masiitaaN, na maiN muusaa, na fir'aun!”
          Ain't new ta this....HOMEINVASION('93)

          Comment


            #6
            i just asked what he does. There are so many hardcore suppoters of this man, that someone should know what he does? Or is it that ppl are following him blindly ??


            actually they said a lot. you might want to check out rambo 3 (that movie conveys the USs feelings towards the afghanis during that period. That was different. USSR was In Afghanistan.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Ali_R:
              Nomaan,

              Am I God to judge this? I don't have proofs so I won't blame anyone. America didn't even have proofs for the previous WTC bombings neither proofs that he had chemical weapon industry in Sudan nor that he had pilots in his camp. Still they are hunting him.
              Why should we play GOD?! We have Allah (swt) for it so leave it to him.
              Don't you think?! When he and his companions killed Russian Soldiers none of these American politician said a single word. WHY?!


              Besides, we're not supposed to be passive. If someone is doing something wrong, you don't just sit there and say, Allah will take care of it, leave it to Allah. By not doing nothing, we also become participants in the evil.

              Next time a person steals a car or kills someone, we should leave him at that? Yeah Right.

              Comment


                #8
                >>>Leave all the rumors about him behind.<<<

                nomaan, how chivalrous of you to make that offer, but its seems ironic that the basis of your original post was just that-a rumour.

                I agree with you, that if a muslim does wrong we should not condone his/her actions. As muslims we are commanded to stand with the oppressed whether they are muslims or non-muslims, it does not matter.

                However, I think its also wrong to make such assumptions, passing judgements on the character of one, of whom you have no true knowledge.

                Comment


                  #9
                  thats why I asked what bin laden does? with so many supporters of his in the muslim world, someone should be able to tell me something.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by nomaan:
                    thats why I asked what bin laden does? with so many supporters of his in the muslim world, someone should be able to tell me something.
                    Unfortunately NOMAAN, few are they that will accept that OBL is anything less than an angel in disguise. According to most posters, he sit around all day, telling stories to the children, and in general is just one good godfearing man. It is not his fault that armed men are always around him, or that he's been quoted to spew out hatred to the USA, or that small rumours and threads of terrorism point to him, or that he is glad about what happened in the USA. ALL are libellous rumours and if his lawyers get their way, all those spreading these lies will be prosecuted.

                    PS: I don't say he is quilty, but where there is smoke.....

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by nomaan:
                      thats why I asked what bin laden does? with so many supporters of his in the muslim world, someone should be able to tell me something.
                      MY LAST QUESTION TO USAMA BIN LADEN

                      Source/Publisher: The Friday Times (Lahore, Pakistan) http://www.TheFridayTimes.com

                      The writer, Editor of Ausaf, Pakistan's influential
                      Urdu-language daily newspaper, says that Usama's poems will live
                      after his death and spread hatred against America. http://www.TheFridayTimes.com/news7a.htm

                      HAMID MIR

                      LAHORE, Pakistan, September 21-27, 2001 (The Friday Times): I
                      first met Usama bin Laden in Jalalabad in March 1997. I was
                      there to interview him. Instead, he started interviewing me. He
                      seemed to have done his homework; for instance, he knew that I
                      had interviewed Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Perez in
                      Switzerland, Nelson Mandela in New Zealand, Yasser Arafat in the
                      United States and Laila Khalid, the famous Palestinian woman
                      hijacker, in Islamabad, Pakistan.

                      Obviously, he had a file on me. That made me nervous. I couldn't
                      hide my discomfiture and he enjoyed my unease. "I even know that
                      Asif Zardari (husband of former premier Benazir Bhutto) does not
                      like you and the (then) present Prime Minister of Pakistan,
                      Nawaz Sharif, is also against you. It proves that you are a good
                      journalist and will not distort my views. I gave an interview to
                      CNN but their editing created problems for me." He hoped that I
                      would not create problems for him.

                      I realised that this was not going to be an ordinary interview
                      and that I was in big trouble. However, within an hour of the
                      interview, I felt relaxed. Usama was very friendly, which
                      encouraged me to even ask him odd questions. "You have 25
                      brothers, do you remember the names of all the brothers?" I
                      asked him. The question prompted him to talk about his father,
                      the late Muhammad bin Laden. Usama's father owned a construction
                      company that took part in the renovation of the Madina and
                      Al-Aqsa Mosques. He wanted to liberate Al-Aqsa from Jewish
                      control. One day, he summoned his engineers and ordered them to
                      convert the 200 bulldozers of his company into tanks. When the
                      engineers told him that it was not possible, Usama's father was
                      disappointed. He wanted to attack Israel with the 200 tanks. "My
                      father (then) decided to produce many sons, as many as he could
                      and to convert them into mujahids."

                      And narrating this, Usama began to laugh. Responding to another
                      question, he said: "I have three wives and 16 children. All of
                      my sons are ready to sacrifice their lives in the name of Allah
                      Almighty."

                      This interview was published in "Daily Pakistan". It was the
                      first time that Pakistanis got to know Usama and the fact that
                      he demands the expulsion of American troops from Saudi Arabia
                      and the expulsion of Jews from Palestine in light of the Holy
                      Quran and the teachings of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). "Until we
                      leave our faith, the Jews and Christians can never become
                      friends of the Muslims. So expel them from Arab lands. This is
                      not what I say; this is what the Holy Quran and Allah's Prophet
                      [PBUH] says. Do you agree with me or not?" This is Osama's
                      famous argument. The main strength of his arguments lies in
                      contradictory American policies. "Americans wants to implement
                      the UN resolutions against Iraq, Libya and Iran but not against
                      Israel because America is Islam's enemy."

                      In many of the Islamic countries, Usama is a hero by default.
                      While moderate Muslims do not share some of his extremist ideas,
                      he is the main beneficiary of the growing hatred in the Islamic
                      World against America.

                      I did my second interview with him for Daily "Ausaf" in May
                      1998. This time he threw some light on his differences with the
                      Saudi Government. He said that he opposed the Saudi support for
                      Iraq against Iran throughout the Gulf War. "The Saudi Interior
                      Minister, Prince Naif, was my opponent in the ruling
                      establishment. When Iraq attacked Kuwait, my government asked
                      for my help but I left my country because I was not ready to
                      fight against Iraq with the help of the Americans who ditched us
                      in Afghanistan."

                      In the second meeting, he invited me to his press conference,
                      which was to be held in Khost some weeks later. I refused to
                      attend the press conference and said that he would invite too
                      many journalists and the information about his hideout would be
                      leaked. "That information would be vital to the Americans and
                      they could get a chance to bomb you," I told him. This is what
                      happened in Khost in August 1998. The Americans attacked his
                      camps with cruise missiles.

                      My refusal to attend the press conference was a surprise for
                      Usama. He liked my careful attitude and asked me if I would
                      write his biography. I agreed after some deliberation with the
                      condition that I would not take dictation. He also agreed with a
                      condition that I would have the rights to only the Urdu and
                      English Editions and I would not publish his biography in any
                      other language without his prior approval. A written agreement
                      was signed between us. I gave him a long list of questions.
                      After some weeks I received his answers through a messenger.
                      Initially, Maulana Muhammad Abdullah, Khateeb of Red Mosque in
                      Islamabad, was my contact with Usama. The Maulana was killed
                      mysteriously in October 1998 in Islamabad.

                      I lost contact with Usama for a long time. At the time he was
                      also facing some restrictions from the Taleban. After a year,
                      some non-Pakistani colleagues of Usama began to visit me. Some
                      of them I had met earlier in Afghanistan. Even as I was writing
                      the last chapter of the book, Hafiz Hussain Ahmed, an ex-Senator
                      and leader of the Jamiat-e-Ulma-e-Islam revealed to me that
                      Usama had give millions of Dirhams to Nawaz Sharif in 1989, with
                      the promise that Sharif would use this money for promoting jehad
                      [war against terrorism] in Pakistan if he became the Prime
                      Minister.

                      I delayed the book and sent my last question to Usama. I wanted
                      to know if it was true that he had given money to Sharif? Where
                      had this money gone? Why had Sharif allowed the Americans to
                      launch a ground operation against him in October 1999? Had he
                      (Usama) met Sharif personally at the Green Hotel in Jeddah,
                      Saudi Arabia, with one Khalid Khawaja?

                      I never received the answers of my last question. Ms. Bhutto
                      says that this money was used against her in a no-confidence
                      move in 1989.

                      I received Usama's last massage late at night on Tuesday,
                      September 11, 2001. It was a written statement in which he
                      denied that he was involved in the terrorist attacks in New
                      York, Virginia and Pennsylvania, USA. Millions of people in this
                      world are waiting for credible evidence against Usama bin Laden.
                      If there is no legal proof, America's war against the Taleban
                      could easily become a clash of Islamic and Western
                      civilizations.

                      Very few people know that Usama bin Laden is also a poet. Most
                      of his poems are about Palestine. The United States can
                      eliminate him physically but his poems cannot be eliminated.
                      These poems will spread more hatred against America after Usama
                      is killed.

                      INFOTIMES INTERNET-WEB LINKS:

                      My Last Question To Usama bin Laden http://groups.yahoo.com/group/InfoTimes/message/1070

                      Peter Arnett's Interview of Usama bin Laden http://www.flinet.com/~politics/jihad/jihad.htm

                      Robert Fisk Talks with Osama bin Laden http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i...k_wtc_19980921

                      Latest News About Usama bin Laden http://www.al-bab.com/arab/news/laden.htm

                      Usamah Bin Ladin Interview With Nida ul Islam http://www.islam.org.au/articles/15/LADIN.HTM

                      Usamah bin Ladin - The Holy Warrior - Hero of Afghan War http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/.../binladen.html

                      Ussamah Bin Laden - MSA News http://msanews.mynet.net/Scholars/Laden

                      Daily Ausaf http://www.dailyausaf.com

                      U.S. State Department 'Fact' Sheet on Usama Bin Laden http://www.state.gov/www/regions/sa/...n_charges.html
                      http://usembassy.state.gov/afghanistan/wwwh0001.html
                      U.S. Government 'Fact' Sheet on Usama Bin Ladin http://usembassy.state.gov/afghanistan/wwwhtr01.html

                      FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives - Usama Bin Laden http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

                      Fatwah Urging Jehad Against U.S. Government http://www.ict.org.il/articles/fatwah.htm
                      NOTE: A pro-America scholar of Islam has pointed out that there
                      is absolutely NO legal evidence to prove that Usama bin Laden
                      issued and signed the fatwa or Islamic edict against the U.S.
                      Government and Americans which was published on February 23,
                      1998 in the newspaper, Al-Quds Al-Arabi. He says that real
                      Islamic fatwas are issued in the Arabic, Persian/Farsi, Dari,
                      Urdu and several other languages in the world, but he has never
                      seen any fatwa originally written in the English-language.
                      Therefore, he has urged the U.S. Government to release the
                      so-called original Arabic-language fatwa document containing the
                      actual signature of Usama bin Laden to the American press and
                      American public so that the Islamic scholars could determine its
                      authenticity. He pointed out that there are many evil criminals
                      who are in the illegal business of issuing false, fabricated and
                      malicious fatwas to malign a Muslim, an Islamic organization,
                      all Muslims or all Arabs. He also pointed out that everyone in
                      the whole world is innocent until proven guilty in an
                      independent court of law after a fair and just trial which must
                      be held under just and fair laws.

                      [Publisher: Information Times http://www.InformationTimes.com
                      America's international daily Internet newspaper
                      Chief Editor: Syed Adeeb - Washington, DC, U.S.A.
                      Copyright © 2001 Information Times. All Rights Reserved.]

                      Comment


                        #12
                        thanks for this info. it still doesn't tell us why he has an army at his command and what they do. maybe they're boy scouts/>??

                        Comment


                          #13
                          nomaan,

                          Osama came to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. I guess you could say that he saw affected him deeply. He is a fighter, and he is a leader-though more spiritual i would think. He might've fought alongside the Taliban, after their emergence in '94, to the present, training fighters, providing resources.

                          I don't think anyone's denying the fact that he is a 'fighter', or that he's aided the Afghans in various ways.

                          I don't think he's guilty of the WTC/Pentagon attack.

                          Old Man, are you sure that smoke you see wasn't wafted over that way from some other source?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            i know his past history. i was interested in what hes been upto since the talibans took over afghanistan.

                            that is whats really relevent now

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by nomaan:
                              i know his past history. i was interested in what hes been upto since the talibans took over afghanistan.

                              that is whats really relevent now
                              Ibrahim says; Dear Nomaan, If you have been banished from your own country because you voiced your concerns and have been promoted as the devil across the globe ( most wanted by FBI) and you were of ill health and your only country of residence was Afghanistan , what would a Muslim be doing or must be doing should give some answers.

                              I cannot speak for that man, So I am just guessing what are his options.

                              As for having an army, here in the Philippines every wealthy tom dick and harry ( Christians and Muslims) have one .

                              It has more to do with survival in countries where one can get killed because he may be wealthy .

                              Comment

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