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    Massiah is not dead

    In another thread someone wrote:

    >>>Ahmadis believe that Hazrat Isa (as) died a natural death and prove it from Quran. And also prove from Quran that those who have died, don't return to this world.

    So, you ask then, who would be the Messiah and what about those Hadiths that talk about Hazrat Isa (as) as the Messiah?

    Ahmadis believe that AnHazoor (saw) mentioned Hazrat Isa (as) as a 'Tamseel', kinda like the Messiah to come will be like the Messiah of the Israelites. Not Hazrat Isa (as) himself!

    If you are really interested in knowing more, then you should concentrate on this topic ... 'death of Hazrat Isa(as)' from Quran. Cos that's the pivot of the claim of Hazrat Ahmad (as)

    If someone can prove Hazrat Isa (as) to be alive in heaven with the humanly body, then the whole basis of the claim of Hazrat Ahmad (as) is false.

    That's what the people here do not understand and question Hazrat Ahmad (as) character and actions. I guess they haven't read the Quran which states clearly that all the Prophets are questioned on their character & their people consider them an 'agent' 'mad man' & call them all kind of names.
    <<<

    I think that jesus (pbuh) is not dead and will comeback near the day of judgement. It is written in Quran as well. so would anybody like to comment?

    #2
    Khan,

    Ahmdies believe that Jesus is dead. Ahmadies view on this topic is explained here. You can visit and read yourself.
    http://www.alislam.org/library/links/death_eesa.html

    ------------------
    "Away from Eyes......Close to Heart"

    [This message has been edited by Insaaniat (edited September 06, 2001).]

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      #3
      I myself have read in Quran that jesus (pbuh) is not dead so how can you prove the otherwise?

      Comment


        #4
        Khan Bhai,

        Thank you for opening this thread! We will InshAllah have some great interesting discussions here!

        So where should we start?

        Um, maybe you can point out to me where it said in Quran that Hazrat Isa (as) is alive? And we will go on from there!

        p.s: Thank you!
        I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
        - Robert McCloskey

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by ahmadjee:
          ....
          So where should we start?

          ....
          you know where to start, don't you ??

          There is an ayat in Quran that Allah SWT 'raised' Hazrat Essa AH. why don't you start from there?

          ------------------
          We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

          Comment


            #6
            What you mean by dead or alive? Soul lives forever!

            ------------------
            "kaisay na karta usko main pyar, uski haseen main sukh thay hazaar, bichar gayay hum dukh ki hay baat"
            Ain't new ta this....HOMEINVASION('93)

            Comment


              #7
              Allah says in Koraan:

              And there is none Of the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (i.e. Jesus as an Apostle of Allah and a human being) before his death. And on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness against them.
              (The Holy Quran, An-Nisa, 4:159)


              I don't think Jews and Christians believe that Jesus is apostle of Allah, now do they?

              For that reason, when he later comes and Jews and Christians MUST believe that he is Prophet of Allah and then he will die. As the verse says 'must believe in him BEFORE his death...".

              Jesus's coming will be sign of the hour:

              And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.

              (Quran, Az-Zukhuruf, 43:61)

              Authentic Ahaadeeths:

              Jesus, son of Mary, will descend near the white minaret towards the east of Damascus.
              (Tabarani)


              Someone came to him and said: What is this hadith that you narrate that the Last Hour will come at a certain time? Thereupon he said: Hallowed be Allah, there is no god but Allah (or words to the same effect). I have decided that I shall not narrate anything to anyone now. I have only said that you will see after some time an important event: that the (sacred) House (Ka'bah) will be burnt and it definitely happen.

              He then reported that Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: The Dajjal will appear in my Ummah and he will stay (in the world) for forty -- I cannot say whether he meant forty days, forty months or forty years. Allah will then send Jesus, son of Mary, who will resemble Urwah ibn Mas'ud. He (Jesus Christ) will chase him and kill him. Then people will live for seven years, during which time there will be no rancor between any two persons. After that Allah will send a cold wind from the direction of Syria. None will survive on Earth, having a speck of good in him or faith in him: he will die. Even if some among you were to enter the innermost part of the mountain, this wind would reach that place also and cause your death.

              I heard Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) as saying: Only the wicked people will survive and they will be as careless as birds with the characteristics of beasts. They will never appreciate good nor condemn evil...
              (Sahih Muslim, Book 40, No. 7023)


              This is really interesting:

              Hazrat Masih(SAW) will die after completing the duration he was destined to pass in the world and that Muslims would offer his funeral prayers and bury him next to the grave of the holy Prophet, Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Umar(RAs).
              (Mishkat, P. 480)



              ------------------
              "I am not playing with a full deck!"

              Comment


                #8
                .

                [This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited September 07, 2001).]

                Comment


                  #9

                  Note from GfQ: Stick to the topic

                  <Edited>

                  Jesus will come as he was taken up/raised up by the will of Allah.

                  [This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited September 07, 2001).]

                  Comment


                    #10
                    <Deleted>

                    As far as Jesus is concerned, the Qur'aan states:


                    043.061 And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.


                    What does the word shall mean!!

                    Obviously, the Qur'aan is clarifying that it is imperative that Jesus IS going to return (SIGN) IN ORDER TO CONFIRM THE COMING OF THE Hour!!

                    He SHALL be a Sign. It does not state, he WAS a Sign. The ayat is not making a statement in the past tense!!!!!!


                    Furthermore:

                    004.157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the

                    Apostle of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to

                    appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain)

                    knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

                    004.158 Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

                    004.159 And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-


                    Once again the ayat states, they MUST believe in him...... It does NOT state, they HAD to believe in him.....


                    The Qur'aan is quite clearly talking about events TO COME ie the future!!!! and not past events.


                    After the Qur'aan, we have the A'Hadeeths.

                    Instead of quoting them to you, I will summarise the universally accepted A'Hadeeths in a nutshell:

                    The Promised Messiah is none other than hazrat Isa bin Maryam(pbuh) (Jesus);

                    He is a man of medium height and moderate complexion inclined to the red and white colors and of lank hair;

                    He will descend among Muslims, near the White Eastern Minaret of Damascus, Syria, clad in two yellow sheets (dyed with saffron), while leaning on the shoulders of two angels;

                    He will pray behind Imam Mahdi;

                    He will fight with, chase, and kills Dajjal (the Anti-Christ) at the gate of Ludd;

                    Messiah will rule justly according to the Laws of Islam and not Gospel;

                    People of the Book will accept him as a Messenger of Allah(SWT) and will embrace Islam (Quran 4:159); subsequently, Cross (Christianity) and Jizyah tax (on non-Muslims) will be abolished;

                    He will encounter attack of Gog and Magog and will be victorious;

                    Islam and justice will rule, oppression will be eliminated, and no fighting (War) will be needed (will be abolished);

                    Everyone will be well off and hatred, jealousy, and grudge will disappear;

                    Messiah will perform Hajj and/or Umra;

                    He will get married, remain married for 19 years before his death and have children;

                    He will die after living on earth for 40 years and will be buried in a grave next to the holy Prophet(SAW). His advent is a sign for the closeness of the day of Judgment (Quran, 43:61);

                    Afterwards, all believers will die before the advent of the day of Judgment and the other prophecies will take place.


                    On a final note, who was Gog Magog according to Mirza? and how did he deal with them in line with the A'Hadeeth?

                    The Qur'aan states:

                    021.095 But there is a ban on any population which We have destroyed: that they shall not return,

                    021.096 Until the Gog and Magog (people) are let through (their barrier), and they swiftly swarm from every hill.

                    018.099 On that day We shall leave them to surge like waves on one another: the trumpet will be blown, and We shall collect them all together.



                    [This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited September 07, 2001).]

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                      #11
                      Would Pakistani Muslims need a Visa to go to Syria (as they do today) when Isa lands there on his Turbo Prop Angles? And what about White Minaret? What if someone paints that, say Blue or psychedelic? And what about generations that have already died without seeing the long awaited Isa? Not fair to them, is it?

                      I think Hollywood should make a movie out of this, that will look more believable. Really.

                      Those who believe that God is only UP (caz Isa was lifted UP) are really stupid (no offence inteded). If God is everywhere, as believed, why did s/he had to lift Isa UP? Why not sideways, or inside the earth? Very confusing.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
                        .....

                        Those who believe that God is only UP (caz Isa was lifted UP) are really stupid (no offence inteded). If God is everywhere, as believed, why did s/he had to lift Isa UP? Why not sideways, or inside the earth? Very confusing.
                        do you know the ayat in Quran where Allah SWT talks about creating universe in six days and then talks about 'arsh'.... can you please discuss that ayat?

                        ------------------
                        We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

                        [This message has been edited by Changez_like (edited September 06, 2001).]

                        Comment


                          #13
                          From your posts its obvious that you do not believe whats written in the Quraan about Jesus(Son of Mary). Is this a correct assumption ?

                          Qadianis believe that Jesus(AS) is dead to validate Mirza's claim of prophethood.

                          Be mindful of Allah(SWT).

                          [This message has been edited by zman (edited September 06, 2001).]

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
                            .....

                            I think Hollywood should make a movie out of this, that will look more believable. Really.
                            .....
                            yes, they should, to teach other Muslims what Islam is. perhaps some people want to learn thru movies.

                            ------------------
                            We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
                              Would Pakistani Muslims need a Visa to go to Syria (as they do today) when Isa lands there on his Turbo Prop Angles? And what about White Minaret? What if someone paints that, say Blue or psychedelic? And what about generations that have already died without seeing the long awaited Isa? Not fair to them, is it?

                              I think Hollywood should make a movie out of this, that will look more believable. Really.

                              Those who believe that God is only UP (caz Isa was lifted UP) are really stupid (no offence inteded). If God is everywhere, as believed, why did s/he had to lift Isa UP? Why not sideways, or inside the earth? Very confusing.

                              You know your this post about minaret and someone should go and paint it blue... reminded me of Abu Jahil and the verse that was revealed about him....
                              Allah said in Koraan that Abu Jahil will never accept Islam, etc and that verse was revealed 10 years before abu Jahil died. He could have easily accepted Islam and could have made Mohammad and Allah look like liars, but he couldn't. I am sure he thought of that, but just couldn't do it.

                              I want to see you go and paint the minaret blue... oh wait, its too late.


                              ------------------
                              "I am not playing with a full deck!"

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