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    Slavery in Hinduism

    This is in continuation of the previous thread. Rani and her comrades stated some irrellevant verses from the Quran that were completely bogus. Can she answer the question why Hinduism commands darker skin peoples to clean the feces of lighter skin people while Islam makes no distinction?

    #2
    Your question is interesting, in that it supposes that Hinduism commands people to do things. There is no "command" - no hierarchical structure, no first cause book, no guru on-high to command people to do things.

    Imagine that - people are left on their own to figure out the meaning of life!

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by astrosfan:
      There is no "command" - no hierarchical structure, no first cause book, no guru on-high to command people to do things.

      Imagine that - people are left on their own to figure out the meaning of life![/B]

      Ibrahim says; That is rather silly! Read what they have been commanded to do.


      HINDUISM & SLAVERY (BY CASTE)

      "(The king) should make a Vaisya engage in trade, lend money, farm the land, or keep livestock; and (he should make) the Sudra the slave of the twice-born. A Brahmin should out of mercy support both a Ksatriya and a Vaisya if they are starved for a livelihood, and have them carry out their own innate activities. But if a Brahmin, out of greed and a sense of power, makes twice-born men who have undergone the transformative rituals do the work of slaves against their will, the king should make him pay a fine of six hundred (pennies). He may, however, make a Sudra do the work of a slave, whether he is bought or not bought; for the Self-existent one created him to be the slave of the Brahmin. Even if he is set free by his master, a Sudra is not set free from slavery; for since that is innate in him, who can take it from him? There are seven ways that slaves come into being: taken under a flag (of war), becoming a slave in order to eat food, born in the house, bought, given, inherited from ancestors, or enslaved as a punishment. A wife, a son, and a slave: these three are traditionally said to have no property; whatever property they acquire belongs to the man to whom they belong. A Brahmin may with confidence take away any possession from a Sudra; for since nothing at all can belong to him as his own, his property can be taken away by his master. (The king) should make the Vaisya and the Sudra carry out their own innate activities diligently; for if the two of them should slip from their own innate activities, they would shake this universe into chaos." -- Manusmrti 8:410-418.


      LOW-CASTES SHOULD HAVE GARBAGE NAMES


      Hinduism teaches that Sudras are trash & should be named accordingly:

      "The Namadheya (naming-rite) must be performed as soon as the term of impurity (caused by the birth of the child) is over. (The name to be chosen should be) auspicious in the case of a Brahmana; Indicating power in the case of a Ksatriya; Indicating wealth in the case of a Vaisya; Indicating contempt in the case of a Sudra." -- Visnusmrti 27:5-9.


      LORD SIVA CONDEMNED FOR ALLOWING A LOW-CASTE (A SUDRA) TO READ VEDAS


      Women & Sudras (& outcastes) are not allowed to study the Vedas; this is one reason this "God" Siva is denounced for allowing a Sudra the Vedic teachings. Daksa's curse is as follows:

      "The Brahmins will not sacrifice to you along with the other gods, for Siva has defiled the path followed by good men; he is impure, an abolisher of rites and demolisher of barriers, [who gives] the word of the Vedas to a Sudra. He wanders like a madman, naked, laughing, the lord of ghosts, evil-hearted. Let Siva, the lowest of the gods, obtain no share with Indra and Visnu at the sacrifice; let all the followers of Siva be heretics, opponents of the true scriptures, following the heresy whose god is the king of ghosts." -- Brahma Purana 2:13:70-73; Garuda Purana 6:19; Bhagavata Purana 4:2:10-32.

      Comment


        #4
        I guess all Hindus are now busy in denouncing OBL and Taleban, they've got some 'point' to bash them... has anyone a proof against OBL yet? don't change direction of topic, just tell in different thread. Thanks

        ------------------
        We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

        Comment


          #5
          Hmmmm....

          ------------------
          “Ishq bhi ho Hijaab mein husn bhi ho Hijaab mein. Ya tu khud Aaskhaar ho ya mujh ko Aaskhaar kar.”
          Ain't new ta this....HOMEINVASION('93)

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Ibrahim:

            Ibrahim says; That is rather silly! Read what they have been commanded to do.
            Commanded by whom? It's all good to find random textual references - but tell me, who's doing the commanding? If a Hindu doesn't follow these things, is he no longer a Hindu? When was the last Hindu condemned in a court of religious law for not following the Manusmirti?

            The texts you quote are older than the Koran. Were Muslims so amazingly pure before the Koran was revealed to Muhammed? The Islam mythology shows that Muslims were polytheistic womanizing usurers before Muhammed. Were they commanded to be that way? Have they grown out of that mindset? Some would say no.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by astrosfan:
              Commanded by whom?
              Ibrahim says: Those who follow the teachings of classical Hinduism believe it was their sacred traditions, commandments from their gods, hence it has been recorded as their sacred teachings and practiced to this very day.

              Originally posted by astrosfan:
              It's all good to find random textual references - but tell me, who's doing the commanding?
              Ibrahim says; When any faith hold any literature as part of their sacred teachings than they are supposed to be originating from , whoever they believe is their god or gods or teachers . Those who follow them as commanded will proudly claim that they are the true followers of that faith whilst those who do as they like are basically imposters and deviants of that faith.

              Originally posted by astrosfan:
              If a Hindu doesn't follow these things, is he no longer a Hindu?
              Ibrahim says; Yes! for a Brahmin to be a Brahmin he MUST adhere to Manavadharmasastra, failing which he has not fulfilled that aspect of his path, as for the current people going around believing that they are hindus it does not matter at all, since their knowledge of Hinduism is more towards Indian constitution, than about their sacred teachings.


              Just so that you grow in wisdom, let me guide as to how and what scripture is to be adhered to in classical Hinduism.


              Classical Hinduism has three distinct strands, or paths. These paths are pursued during a succession of lives with a general goal for the individual to be released from their karmic existence. The three paths are named Karmamarga (the Way of Action), Jnanamarga (the Way of Knowledge) and Bhaktimarga (the Way of Devotion). Each Path, or Way, has a major book associated with it.

              Karmamarga - The Manavadharmasastra, or the Laws of Manu, written between 200 BCE and 200 CE. The Laws of Manu are based on earlier Vedic and Hindu books, generally referred to as the Sutras, of which Manu's is the most important. The Sutras date back to about 600 BCE. The Laws of Manu lay out the Hindu caste system, describe the stages of life, and the rounds of life.

              Jnanamarga - The Upanishads developed between 600 BCE and 200 BCE. The Upanishads lay out the secrete, esoteric knowledge of Hinduism.

              Bhaktimarga - The Bhagavadgita is mostly concerned with tendencies within Hinduism toward monotheism. It was written about 200 BCE.

              Originally posted by astrosfan:
              When was the last Hindu condemned in a court of religious law for not following the Manusmirti?

              Ibrahim says; Why must a court of law , be the judge of a religion? On the other hand hindus have their own maths and sanghs which have indeed adhered to Manu’s ways and condemned people for their failure. BTW don’t expect them to call you to be their jury since what you imply is not Hinduism but DIY Hinduism.


              Originally posted by astrosfan:
              The texts you quote are older than the Koran. Were Muslims so amazingly pure before the Koran was revealed to Muhammed?
              Ibrahim says; The texts I quote are part of the current existing version, the original for them would not be conveying what they are conveying today , it is because they became adulterated subsequent prophets were sent with the Avesta, Torah, Psalms, Gospel and the Qur’an to correct their errors. The Muslims were pure when they had been following the Prophets, and it can be proven beyond doubt that Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) would be Brahma in Hinduism. Meaning the original Hinduism is actually a corruption of Islam that was preached and practiced by Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh)

              Originally posted by astrosfan:
              The Islam mythology shows that Muslims were polytheistic womanizing usurers before Muhammed.
              Ibrahim says; There is NO mythology in Islam, Islam was preached and practiced by all the Prophets, but as generations progressed it became adulterated and assumed different names ( because it was adulterated and NO more Islam) . hence it became known as Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity and so on. The Arabs and the people in India ( the word hindus, and Hinduism is a resent coinage) became idolaters and were actually following the same teachings as written in manu smrti. . Only when the Final Prophet was sent amongst the Arabs as prophesized to them from ancient times, they returned to practicing what they were originally taught but the pagans (hindus) refused and remained as idolaters in India.

              Originally posted by astrosfan:
              Were they commanded to be that way?

              Ibrahim says; When people fail to understand what they have been commanded and start altering their teachings, they will end up as idolaters and this is what happened to the people in Arabia before the coming of the final prophet ( kalki avatar) that was promised to them

              Originally posted by astrosfan:
              Have they grown out of that mindset? Some would say no.
              Ibrahim says; apparently you have a major problem because 1.5 billion people from every walk of life and on every continent, race or tribe will say otherwise.


              Comment


                #8

                Ibrahim says: Those who follow the teachings of classical Hinduism believe it was their sacred traditions, commandments from their gods, hence it has been recorded as their sacred teachings and practiced to this very day.
                =============================================
                Ibrahim Bhai
                I think What knowledge U have got on Hindusim is from books available but I would like to put before U some basic ideas of Hinduism.
                The concept of Hinduism is very old. It did not start by any one persons teaching. The oldest written scriptures are expected to be 5000 years old.
                The Upanishads are the basis of the religion and there are 18 of them. Manu was only a Brahmin scholar who was writing about the social structure that has to be followed. Manu Smrithi is not the basis of Hinduism, but there is no denying the fact that it indeed introduced the caste system into the Hindu fold.
                =============================================
                Ibrahim says; When any faith hold any literature as part of their sacred teachings than they are supposed to be originating from , whoever they believe is their god or gods or teachers . Those who follow them as commanded will proudly claim that they are the true followers of that faith whilst those who do as they like are basically imposters and deviants of that faith.
                =============================================
                Victory: The divine revelations are found in BhagavadGita, when Lord Krishna awakened Arjuna.
                Manu Smrithi is not the basis of Hinduism.
                =============================================
                Quote:
                If a Hindu doesn't follow these things, is he no longer a Hindu?
                ---------------------------------------------
                Victory: Let me first clarify the concept of Hinduism. Hinduism does not believe in many Gods or anything else. The basis of Hinduism is Advaitha. Meaning Singularity.
                ShankaraBhagavadpada, the renowned Guru espoused "Aham Brahmasmi", meaning the divine is present in You.
                The Aatma present in each and every living being is a manifestation of the divine supreme, all life forms exisiting in Earth are due to the creators will. Our duty is to realise this Supreme truth and Get over the MAYA, around us, and realise the Goal of our LIFE, Realising GOD. ONly after this is achieved will we be rid of this Birth and death Cycle.
                =============================================

                Classical Hinduism has three distinct strands, or paths. These paths are pursued during a succession of lives with a general goal for the individual to be released from their karmic existence. The three paths are named Karmamarga (the Way of Action), Jnanamarga (the Way of Knowledge) and Bhaktimarga (the Way of Devotion). Each Path, or Way, has a major book associated with it.

                =============================================
                Victory: The Hinduism has three basic tenets namely
                "Advaitha"
                "Dwaitha"
                "VishstaAdwaitha"
                Advaitha tells "Jeevatma and Paramatma are the same".
                Dwaitha tells that Jeevatma and Paramatma are different and we should work to liberate our souls to merge with the divine supreme.
                VishstaAdwaitha tells that Jeevatma and Paramatma are different and will be one on the realisation of the Divine Supreme.

                What margas You have suggested are better described in Bhagavad Gita. We need to rely on Bhagavadgita in which The Lord Krishna reveals the Truth, we should not take into Account the MAnuSmrithis which is only a social article like the constitution.

                =============================================

                quote:
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Originally posted by astrosfan:
                The texts you quote are older than the Koran. Were Muslims so amazingly pure before the Koran was revealed to Muhammed?
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Ibrahim says; The texts I quote are part of the current existing version, the original for them would not be conveying what they are conveying today , it is because they became adulterated subsequent prophets were sent with the Avesta, Torah, Psalms, Gospel and the Qur’an to correct their errors. The Muslims were pure when they had been following the Prophets, and it can be proven beyond doubt that Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) would be Brahma in Hinduism. Meaning the original Hinduism is actually a corruption of Islam that was preached and practiced by Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh)
                =============================================
                Victory: Hinduism is a way of life, whatever exists in nature is a part of Hindu stream, whether he is a Muslim or whatever it is. I am reproducing some of the oldest scripts by Ganpathi Sastry,
                Which says:
                "YAMSHAIVASSAMUPASATHE SHIVAITHI BRAHMETHI VEDANTHINAHA, KARTHAITHI NAYYAYIKAAHA, ARHANNITHYATHIJAINASHASANARATHAHAA KARMA ITHIMEEEMAAMSAKAAHA'
                "SOYAMVOO VIDADAATH VAMCHITHAPHALAM TRILOKYANAATHO VIBHUHU"

                The meaning says that Shiva is the form of worship for shaivaites, Brahma for Vedantinaha, Kartha (Creator) is the worship for Nayyayikaas, Karma for Meeemaamsakas.
                The Divine Supreme, The King of the Universe should Bless the World.

                =============================================
                quote:
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Originally posted by astrosfan:
                The Islam mythology shows that Muslims were polytheistic womanizing usurers before Muhammed.
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Ibrahim says; There is NO mythology in Islam, Islam was preached and practiced by all the Prophets, but as generations progressed it became adulterated and assumed different names ( because it was adulterated and NO more Islam) . hence it became known as Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity and so on. The Arabs and the people in India ( the word hindus, and Hinduism is a resent coinage) became idolaters and were actually following the same teachings as written in manu smrti. . Only when the Final Prophet was sent amongst the Arabs as prophesized to them from ancient times, they returned to practicing what they were originally taught but the pagans (hindus) refused and remained as idolaters in India.
                =============================================
                Victory: There are proofs that trade from India to the middle east was great. When Arabs came to India they brought with them their culture and religion and no way Hinduism is as preached by Prophet Ibrahim (PBUH).
                Hindus believe that it was the Arabs who took the knowledge of Monotheism from Advaitha.

                =============================================
                quote:
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Originally posted by astrosfan:
                Were they commanded to be that way?
                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                Ibrahim says; When people fail to understand what they have been commanded and start altering their teachings, they will end up as idolaters and this is what happened to the people in Arabia before the coming of the final prophet ( kalki avatar) that was promised to them
                =============================================
                Victory: It is here I would like to stress, Kalki would come at the end of the Kali Yuga as stressed in Hinduism, the theory is around 5000 years according to Archeologists, but I believe it to be much older. However people should realise that it was from Hinduism the Cue was taken and not viceversa.
                I however agree that the word Hinduism is only a recent origin. When there was no other school of thought, it was only this thought that existed, the thought of the ancient Indians which guided the world.
                But Hinduism gives the freedom of thinking and approaching the God in your own form. If you want to pray you can pray as you like. There are no rules regarding how you should sit or stand you are free to do all the basic things as your wish.
                The ultimate thing is follow the path of Good
                The saying goes,
                "AsathomaSadgamaya, ThamasomaJyortirgamaya, Mrutyorma Amruthamgamaya....'"
                Oh! lord take us from Path of Wrong to Right,
                From Darkness to Light
                liberate us from this cycle.
                =============================================

                NB: I am trying for the Date clarifications I will get back as I get the exact classifications of Kalpa, Yuga etc.

                Comment


                  #9
                  This is in continuation of the previous thread. Rani and her comrades stated some irrellevant verses from the Quran that were completely bogus. Can she answer the question why Hinduism commands darker skin peoples to clean the feces of lighter skin people while Islam makes no distinction?
                  =============================================
                  Victory:
                  No where in Hindu scriptures is it written that Darker skin or someothers should clean the faeces of the lighter skin. Better visit any HinduAshram to get the eternal truth.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Victory:
                    Victory:
                    No where in Hindu scriptures is it written that Darker skin or someothers should clean the faeces of the lighter skin. Better visit any HinduAshram to get the eternal truth. [/B]
                    Ibrahim says; Victory!! you need to remain in the ashram so that you can delude yourself because you seem awfully naïve. .

                    Here read!

                    HINDUISM'S TREATMENT OF OUTCASTES (AVARNA)

                    "Candalas must live out of the town, and their clothes must be the mantles of the deceased." -- Visnusmrti 16:14.

                    "These (castes) should live near mounds, trees, and cremation-grounds, in mountains and in groves, recognizable and making a living by their own innateactivities. But the dwellings of 'Fierce' Untouchables (candala) and 'Dog-cookers' (svapaca ) should be outside the village; they must use discarded bowls,and dogs and donkeys should be their wealth. Their clothing should be the clothes of the dead, and their food should be in broken dishes; their ornaments should be made of black iron, and they should wander constantly. A man who carries out his duties should not seek contact with them; they should do business with one another and marry with those who are like them. Their food, dependent upon others, should be given to them in a broken dish, and they should not walk about in villages and cities at night." -- Manusmrti 10:50-54.

                    "If one who (being a member of the Candala or some other outcaste) must not be touched, intentionally defiles by his touch one who (as a member of a twice-born caste) may be touched (by other twice-born persons only), he (or she) shall be put to death. If a woman in her courses (touches such a person),she shall be lashed with a whip." -- Visnusmrti 5:104-5.

                    "If a man of one birth (Sudra) hurls cruel words at one of the twice-born, his tongue should be cut out, for he was born from the rear-end. If he mentions their name or caste maliciously, a red-hot iron nail ten-fingers long should be thrust into his mouth. If he is so proud as to instruct priests about their duty, the king should have hot oil poured into his mouth and ears." -- Manusmrti 8:270-272.

                    "If a man of inferior caste tries to sit down on the same seat as a man of superior caste, he should be branded on the hip and banished, or have his buttocks cut off." -- Manusmrti 8:281.


                    Ibrahim says; Under these circumstances what work are they supposed to do, excvept remove NIGHT soils???

                    NEED MORE DETAILS ON HOW THE EVIL and INHUMANE HINDUS TREATED OTHER HUMAN BEINGS IN INDIA? ???

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Ibrahim:

                      NEED MORE DETAILS ON HOW THE EVIL and INHUMANE HINDUS TREATED OTHER HUMAN BEINGS IN INDIA? ???
                      yes

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by astrosfan:
                        yes
                        The oppression of Dalits has been going on for over 3000 years. They are segregated in all spheres of social life: places of worship, education, housing, land ownership, use of common wells, roads, busses, etc. They are the people who have to do the menial and degrading jobs. They are considered to be untouchable. In their daily life untouchability results in, among others, the following consequences (For more day to day examples also go through the press releases).

                        o In a lot of the upper caste (rich) families the servants are Dalits. After the servant has cleaned the rooms, pots and pans, one of the family members will sprinkle 'holy' water to purify all that has been touched by the servant.


                        o Dalits are not allowed to wear shoes; if they wear them, Dalits will have to take off their shoes at times they meet a higher caste person.


                        o In the rural areas, Dalits are not allowed to cycle through the village streets in which the higher caste people live.


                        o The Dalits mainly live in separate communities, outside the actual village.


                        o In general, Dalits are not allowed to sit at the bus stop; they have to stand and wait till upper caste people have entered the bus. Dalits are also not allowed to sit on the seats, even though they are vacant.


                        o After half a century of Independence even the educated among the Dalits are not free to get a house for rent of their choice to live in.


                        o Most Hindus will avoid having a Dalit to prepare their food, because they fear becoming polluted.


                        o The government has made reservations for Dalits, so that they can enter into jobs in the public sector, parliamentary State Assemblies and universities. This reservation, however, makes them even more vulnerable in the society.


                        o Mira Saroj: Daughter of a toddy tapper in Uttar Pradesh, she is enrolled at Delhi University but jumps in with manual labour at home when she is free from studies. 'Sadly, an educated Dalit women is almost a contradiction in terms', says Mira. (Outlook Magazine, November 16, 1998)


                        o 'We may touch a cat, we may touch a dog, we may touch any other animal, but the touch of these human beings is pollution.' (G.K. Gokhale, in Jesus the Dalit by M.R. Arulraja, 1996. Volunteer Centre, 7-1-30/6, Ameerpet, Hyderabad - 16)

                        The following news items recently appeared in the newspaper: 'Ratnam, a Dalit educated youth of a village just outside Hyderabad, was forced to kill 35-40 buffaloes in 2,5 hour's time for religious purposes. His family was, because they are Dalits, forced to do this traditional annually event for years. Until now his father had done the job. He had to kill each buffalo within less than four minutes without making any sound. If he would make a sound or he would fail, he would be punished severely. After the ritual was over the man himself was not allowed even to enter the temple itself, because he is a Dalit. Now it has become Ratnam's turn to take the job over from his old father. But he refused. The consequence is that his whole family is boycotted and he is even threatened to be killed'. (The Hindu, September 6th, 1998)

                        'Fights have been reported, between Dalits and higher caste people in Mahabubnagar, Andhra Pradesh. A common habit in India is drinking the very sweet tea, either in a person's house or outside in a teahouse. Dalits are not allowed to drink out of the same cups in these teahouses, than other do. And even, after they have finished, they are supposed to wash their cups themselves. The Dalits of Mahabubnagar did not want to do this anymore. Then the struggles came. In the same article other daily problems were mentioned. Dalits e.g. have to wait entering a bus, until the higher caste people have entered. Or Dalits are not allowed to cycle through a village; they have to walk. Dalits are also not allowed to wear shoes; any time they meet a higher caste person, they will have to take of their shoes, so it is better not to wear shoes at all. And finally the Dalit community is not allowed to live in the same village as the higher castes, so they often have separate communities with their own entrance'. (The Hindu, June 12th, 1998)



                        In the Indian Press nearly daily articles in Newspapers and Magazines are published. In this page a selection of the most up to date articles are briefly described and if possible links to the newpaper or magazine or to the original text is given.


                        3 May 1999
                        Embargo against Dalits still in force in AP (South India) - S. Gopinath Reddy
                        (Indian Express Newspapers, Bombay)

                        Dalits in a village in Mahabubnagar District are disciminated in many ways. They have to drink tea out of different cups, which they will have to wash afterwards, they are not allowed to enter temples and they will have to pay a fee while wearing shoes.

                        Police has booked cases against higher caste people, but they remain undeterred. The Dalits are not allowed to draw water from the only borewell in the village, so they have to walk 4 kilometres to fetch water.

                        "They started behaving smart. If we allow them to share tea glasses, they would go to the extent of marrying our girls", a higher caste person justifies the situation. He also said that he would not mind going to jail ' to protect age old - customs'.


                        24 April 1999
                        Dalit Suicides? - Gail Omvedt (The Hindu)

                        Why are Dalit farmers more likely to commit suicides? Why should they have more problems than the farmers of traditional cultivating castes in producing cotton or other cash crops?

                        In the last year the media was full of discussion on suicides by farmers; the weather failed, the government held debates, ecological problems, the free market and multinationals were blamed, the prices and the overall vulnerability of farmers. However, a study of the suicides in Maharastra, done by a researcher in Gokhale Insitute of Pune, showed that 62 of the 75 suicides were Dalits.

                        This is shocking. Especially because it is overwhelming unbalanced, while a majority of Dalits owns little land only. Clearly agricultural problems indeed exist and are serious, but what is the underlying factor that causes them to impact on Dalits in a severer way? Why are the Dalit farmers more likely to commit suicide?

                        First of all, Dalits are not traditionally cultivators. Further, the Dalits are specialists in many other fields. They were experts in rope-making, wood cutting, leather works; only few Dalits were farmers in the sense of being able to control and manage the cultivation of the whole land.
                        Secondly, whenever any use of new technology, like pesticides, irrigation supply, it requires extension services. This should be given either by the government or by a private company. The Dalits lack the access to this, and are much more in need for help from the government. These have failed.

                        The Dalit suicides show, above all, that the caste system meant the fragmentation of indigenous knowledge. Lack of appropriate knowledge may be even more important than lack of capital. The caste system discouraged to move beyond the assigned duty.
                        There has been no encouragement to step outside the framework to freely create
                        and innovate and acquire new skills. There is need for training and education in skills of production, including effective education for economically viable and ecologically sustainable agriculture. This training may prove to be more important than even job reservation for Dalits.
                        www.indiaserver.com/thehindu/1999/04/24/stories/05242523.htm


                        Echoing empowerment - Alladi Jayasri (Magazine - The Hindu)

                        Deep within Karnataka’s (south India) B. R. Hills, the Soliga tribals once faced
                        turbulent times. As is the case with indigenous peoples in such an environment, commerce has exploited them to the hilt. But that was till Dr. Sudarshan settled down there in the Seventies. Twenty years hence, an initiative between modernity and tribal society is set to be acknowledged. And
                        at its core lies hope – of three women who have had the right to make choices.

                        The three women had the opportunitiy to get education and study in the big cities in India. However the bond with the village, with their own indigenous people is so
                        strong, that they went back. Now the teach and educate their fellow Soliga tribals for life in the new millenium.


                        Harassed Dalits seek justice - W. Chandrakanth (The Hindu)

                        About 100 Dalits of Chowlure village in AP facing social boycott and police cases came to the city seeking justice. They complained about attacks on them by non-Dalits. The
                        Dalits were refused to do puja (worship) in a temple, afterwards they were attacked by the non-Dalits with sickles, sticks and rods. The Dalits filed a case at the police, instead of doing justice, the police filed a false case.

                        The Dalits were asked to live in peace with the non-Dalits. But they wonder how that is possible when they don’t get the access to nearby drinking water, groceries and milk. They are socially boycotted.




                        22 April 1999
                        12 Killed in Bihar villages - Our special correspondent (The Hindu)

                        12 Persons of a Dalit community and other backward caste communities (Yadav) were massacred lated Wednesday night in central Bihar. It is again the work of the Ranvir Sena, a private army of higher caste people. After a killing last month the Ranvir
                        Sena vowed to avenge it and struck at two hamlets of the village.

                        Last night's killing is the sixth major carnage in central Bihar in less than 3 months.


                        19 April 1999
                        Pattas in hand, land out of reach - R.J. Rajendra Prasad (The Hindu)

                        A backward class agricultural labourer holds his 'patta' for 2 acres of dry land. It is given to him in 1978, but he never has had the benefit of possessing the land.
                        What is happening? A landlord owns 10 acres of land and part of this land belongs to the labourer, but which part is not clear. Now all of the land is fallow. So, the labourer
                        does not mind about which part is his. But the landlord went to the USA and is
                        hardly in the area.

                        What happens if the labourer still start to cultivate his own piece of land? The police will catch him, because the police is protecting the interests of the landlord.


                        17 April 1999
                        Disrimination against Dalits alleged - The Hindu

                        The general secretary of the Dr. B.R. Ambedkar Mission, Mr. A. Sampath Kumar, accused the district officals of discrimination against Dalits in obstructing the unveiling of the Ambedkar statue at Vontimitta, Cuddapah, AP.


                        14 April 1999
                        Identity crisis for educated Dalits? - W. Chandrakanth (The Hindu)

                        Durint a meetint organised byt the National Campaign on Dalit Human Rights in Hyderabad, the 'Dalitisation of urban Dalits' was discussed. One of the questions was whether Dalits lose their identity by coming to a city. The answer was 'yes'. In the villages the Dalits the Dalits live in separate communities; everybody knows that one is a
                        Dalit or not (and is treated accordingly). But in the city Dalits change their
                        lifestyle. An employee of the university says: 'I dress differently, I eat differently, I send my children to and English medium school, I avoid declaring my identity. However, I fail somewhere and the moment it is out, I am made to feel like a leprosy patient (considered impure in India). In my work I am called a 'quota man' (which means that I received my position only
                        through the govermental reservation system)".
                        The article describes that Casteism is omnipotent and omnipresent. A student remarked that other laugh at him when he says that his father works as a rickshawpuller or as a daily labourer. 'Then the harassement begins'. During the
                        discussion they all agreed that the dalits, both in city and rural areas, should be united. Both Dalit Hindus and Dalit Christians should make an united effort.
                        www.hinduonline.com


                        12 April 1999
                        Police harassing Dalits - Our Staff Reporter (The Hindu)

                        The Human Rights Forum visited several villages in South India, after the blasting of a landlords' house and a railway station. Although the blastings were done by the Naxalites (guerrilla group), the police is blaming the Dalits for it. 82 Persons were arrested, out of which 70 are innocent Dalits.
                        www.hinduonline.com


                        11 April 1999 Selling infants
                        - K. V. S. Madhav (The Hindu)

                        Eyes closed and fists clenched, hundres of infants set sail across the sea of humanity from humanity from the poverty-ridden pockets of Nalgonda (Andhra Pradesh, South India) to Hyderabad (Capital of AP, South India) and beyond to several foreign
                        countries. A reporton the adoption racket.
                        In the trivbal villages of Nalgonda the Lambada's are eagerly awaiting the birth of another child. Normally they will be desperate of having another mouth to feed, but today it is different; the father has already sold out the foetus to a 'social
                        worker' . He gets Rs. 1,500/- ($ 35, -) for it. The 'social worker' takes care that the baby will end up in a Western country, where it is sold for much more than what the father gets. 'Foreign couples like the Lambada babies, beause they are fair and goodlooking'. This practice came to light due to a tip given by a Lambada women herself. The police investefates the case and locke up the 'social worker'. According to an NGO working in the area, the practice is not new. The motivation of the 'social worker' is that he gives at least new life to the babies, otherwise the baby might become the victim of female infanticide.
                        www.hinduonline.com


                        Melavalavu's government - in - exile - P. Sainath (The Hindu)

                        In areas where upper caste dominance has been procounced, the declaration of some Panchayats (village leader poitions) as 'reserved' has had a backlash. In some cases, there are no candidates at all even when the Panchayat is reserved. They are
                        too scared to contes. Doing so could invite terror. A striking example is Melavalavu, close to Madurai (Tamil Nadu, South India).
                        When the elcetions came, the Dalit candidates of the elections were not allowed to file their nominations. There was only on who did. his house was burned down. In the
                        second round of elections the Dalits were promised more security, but the upper caste boycotted the elections. In the third roudn of the local elections a member of the Dalit party was elected, but he could not work at the Panchayat office. It was locates in the upper caste area. A few weeks later, he and other members of the party were killed in the bus on their way home.

                        The rest of the Dalit villagers went to the police, but the only thing they did was warning the upprer caste people to leave the village. South Tamil Nadu faces Dalit disrimination every day. Dalits are refused to draw water from the village well and the children who are going to a school (which is located in and upper caste area) are still beaten up. Caste tensions are old, but violence itself, in its present form is new.

                        The opinions on the reasons for these new clashes are divided. Higher caste people say that the Dalits have improved a lot in their postitions. Dalits themselves say, 'we
                        still can not go to the Panchayat office, because it is in the upper caste area'. Nothing has improved yet.
                        www.hinduonline.com


                        4 April 1999
                        Breaking the shackles - Kalpana Sharma (The Hindu Magazine)

                        On March 8th, the International Women's Day, around 400 women in a village in Karnataka had gathered. All these women (mainly Dalits) are participating in empowerment and
                        literacy programs. Thus far the Dalit
                        women had to do all kinds of practices, because of them being a Dalit. 'Our young daughters had to sit on the laps of the Gowdas (upper caste men) in our villages and
                        remove with their mouth the money the men were clenching between their teeth'.


                        [b] An old men in our village raped and eight-year old Harijan (Dalit) girl, because he had been told by the government doctor that he would be cured of a sexually transmitted disease in this way'.[b]
                        'The Gowdas would taunt us and say that even if we educated our daughters, who would give them a job? Better send them to us'.

                        In the women groups, the women were made believe that they have the power to change the circumstances into which they were born. Through the women groups they were able to stop sitations like the above mentioned.

                        This can be considered to be representing a virtual social revolution. The women are
                        initiating tremendous important steps.
                        www.hinduonline.com


                        12 March 1999
                        A history of massacres - Venkitesh mamakrishnan (Frontline)

                        In the period of 1990 -1999, 35 instances of caste-based massacres took place. In total 400 persons were killed, of which more than 350 were from among the lower castes (Dalits).


                        The number of attacks against Dalits and other lower-caste people has gone up every time a backward caste leader rose to power. Nearly all of the atrocities have been done by the private army of landlords, the Ranvir Sena.

                        They did not only kill around 200 people in the last 5 years, they also participated in the conduction of the 'mass rape' campaign. In this campaign 200 Dalit women between 6 and 70 years old were raped (in 1992).

                        In the end the Ranvir Sena boosts on their actions - they learn the Dalits a lesson, that if they tried to take on the landlords the women of their communities will be
                        humiliated.
                        www.the-hindu.com/fline/index.htm


                        8 March 1999
                        The bride Price - Rohit Parihar (India Today)

                        In several districts of Rajasthan, women from backward communities are being bought and sold with impunity as the police and Panchayats look the other way. Every year hundreds of women are being sent from man to man, for money. And it is their husbands
                        who are acting as auctioneers. What makes this bizarre practice even more incredible is that it has societal sanction.

                        An NGO Women's Rights Committee Against Atrocity discovered that almost in every home there is an unsuccessful marriage. Virtually Every household has a women bought or given out for a price.


                        Most of the women live in fear, no knowing 'when he will strike again'. But slowly some women have begun standing up for themselves, but since it has societal sanction it won't be easy to stop this primitive practice.
                        www.india-today.com




                        1 March 1999
                        Persecution of Dalits alleged - Our staff reporter (the Hindu)

                        In Visakhapatnam the Dalit community is ostracised by the local landlords since april last year, when they were not called for work which put the Dalits to a lot of
                        difficulties.

                        The district officials took no action on the upper castes, even though the landlords' action was againts the PCR Act. The Dalits were even not invited by the local landlords
                        on a festival in June last year. This enraged the Dalits. They went on hunger strike, but were arrested by the police. Still the social boycott continued, which brought the Dalits in a position unable to find livelihood in their native village.


                        A human rights group suggests now that the Government, while taking up development works, should lay down a condition that the villagers should not indulge in social boycott of Dalits.
                        www.hinduonline.com




                        25 February 1999
                        Ambedkar's new Buddism - Gail Omvedt (The Hindu)

                        Ambedkar's Buddishm was meant for a community of super-exploited men and women seeking their place in a new millennium, a community with a fighting tradition ready to seek out new ideas.
                        www.hinduonline.com




                        23 February 1999
                        Crocodile tears for the Dalits - Gopal Guru (The Hindu)

                        The BJP's Government's hidden agenda, which is full of contratictions, denies it any consitency in its political stand. Otherwise, it would have certainly considered the rising number of killings and atrocities against the Dalits in Maharastra and Christians in Gujarat and dismissed those State Governments.

                        The sacking of the government in Bihar is not because of the Dalit killings; this is only used as a legitimacy; not through persuasion, deliberation, negotiation and consensus, but by appropriating 33 bodies of Dalits in Bihar. Dalits are being treated as
                        the sacrificial goat for satisfying the parochial aspirations of parties, such
                        as BJP.


                        The only option left to the Dalits and even the minorities is to take their case to the larger public, not for sympathy but for solidarity. The suppressed sections will have to collectively develop the human rights consciousness and take collective
                        action.
                        www.hinduonline.com


                        12 February 1999
                        In solidarity - R. Madhavan Nair (Frontline)

                        The novelist Arundhati Roy expresses her solidarity with the cause of Dalits and Dalit literature.

                        With her book 'The God of Small Things' she won the Booker Price. On a visit to Kerala the author mad a significant and widely appreciated contribution to the cause of Dalit literature. She said: 'the Dalit struggle for justice and equality would be
                        and indeed ought to be the biggest challenge that India would face in the next century'.


                        By announcing her support for the Dalit cause, Arundhati Roy has taken a decisive step. She remains primarily a literary figure of international distinction, but a
                        literary figure who has stepped out in the public arena to speak forthrightly
                        and powerfully on just causes she has chosen for herself.
                        www.the-hindu.com/fline/index.htm





                        8 February 1999
                        The Lust for Blood - Sanjay Kumar Jha (India Today)

                        The cycle of caste violence continues with the killing of 23 Dalits by the Ranbir Sena -a private army of landlords. On January 25th 1999 a massacre took place in a village in Bihar. This time even the women and children were not spared. The officials are still trying to figure out the reason behind the blood bath.

                        According to a villager the land troubles might be the cause. About 50 acres of disputed land have been occupied by the local Naxalites, the Ranbir Sena's archenemy.
                        www.india-today.com


                        Comment


                          #13
                          hinduism is the most caste-conscious religion i know of and talk about unfair practices between humans!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Muslims were the biggest slave traders the world has known. So pipe down with the high browed islamic rhetoric.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Chal, I guess I was a bit abrasive in the way I worded that. What I was trying to say was that hinduism, for however long it's existed (and I imagine it's existed for a very long time, as of the dawn of ancient history), promotes class distinction in what is today known as the caste system. From what I know, I believe these castes are divided into brahmin, kshatriya, vaisha, and the untouchables. Glad I still remember from the Hinduism course I once took in college

                              I'm not disagreeing with your point re: Arabs being at the forefront of slave trade at the height of Islamic power. However, in my opinion, the two cases are quite unsimilar to beg comparison

                              Comment

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