Ok, this one should be simple - When is Qiyamat?

[Pristine]

This one should be a piece of cake for the religious ulema who frequent this forum. Me, I couldn't figure it out.

I had always heard and believed that we, human beings live in this world, do our deeds and die. Then one day in the future, the angel named 'Israfeel' will give out the sound of 'Saur' (a really loud sound), and every living being will die. Then Allah will give life back to all of us. Every single soul who came to this world will rise and will come out of their graves and there will be the Day of Judgement. Each of us will be evaluated, some will be sent to the paradise and some will be thrown in the hell-fire. Where we will live forever.

Is that how you folks understand it to be?

Now, I was reading about the Meraaj, where the Prophet (SAWW) travelled to Allah Ta'allah, and if you read about the whole incident of Meraj you will notice mention that he passed a group in hell and he asked Hazrat Jibrael A.S. (Gabriel) and Gabried explained the sins of those people. So on and so forth. Remember this all?

Now, tell me, is the Day of Judgement for those people already over? How did those folks already ended up in hell-fire 1,500 years ago. Isn't the Day of Judgement supposed to be the same for everyone?

Do those who die, move on from azaab-e-qabar to barzakh and to Day of Judgement continously? Or is it just one day when all of us will rise from our graves?

Is Day of Judgement is infact a continous process (and people are being thrown in hell-fire or admitted to paradise all the time), and qiyamat is just a symbol when this world will end?

I am sure there is a simple, religious explanation for it all. Somehow it escapes me. Do you know or have any thoughts on this issue?

[Akif]

Originally posted by Pristine:
How did those folks already ended up in hell-fire 1,500 years ago. Isn't the Day of Judgement supposed to be the same for everyone?

When on Mairaaj, Prophet SAW was shown the events of the world and the hereafter from the beginning to the end. He was shown what had happened before him, and he was shown what would happen after him. From that POV, I figure the day of judgement is the same for everyone.
We also need to consider Barzakh, which itself will be a replica of what happens on the day of judgement itself. In our graves, we will have a good time or a bad time, depending on our actions in this world.
Then we need to consider the Quranic quote where Allah SWT says that the day of judgement will be 50 years long, equal to 50,000 earth years. Since Allah SWT has clearly given a number, hence there is a definite beginning and a definite end to the day itself.
Anyway, Im sure there are other opinions.

[Pristine]

Akif, check out Hinna's thread where I gave my opinion on these earthly figures given in Quran. We don't doubt the words of Quran, ofcourse, but it is my opinion that these are just given to make us understand the vastness of these happenings. Come to think of it, in the context of the whole universe, the days and years of a small planet, called "Earth" hardly matter. So I take them as "ista'ara" or explain-by-example, instead of literal 50,000 years or such. Anyway, that is besides the topic we are trying to cover here.

Coming back to the topic... are you saying that during Meraj, what the Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) saw was just a creation, sort of like a demo.. and it was not actual hell-fire or actual people? And the actual hell-fire and the actual fuel of hell-fire (sinners) will only be placed there after the day of qiyamat which will be the same for everyone sometime in the future?

What we hear about the scenes of hell-fire during Meraj were not real? Those people were not real? There has been no qiymat as yet, and Allah just showed those scenes (demo) to Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) to make him understand and get back with the message for his ummah?

Or that, since the Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) was taken in a sort of time travel so he saw scenes which will be created hundreds, maybe thousands of years from now. Maybe some of the people around us, were the ones who were shown to the Prophet (SAWW) as the ones who ended up in hell for a specific bad-deed.

Or was it all just an example?

Help me understand. Thank you.

[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited September 07, 2001).]

[ThandyMazaq]

pristine, most scholars believe that it was just either a demo with no real people or Allah SWT showed him the future of what is to come, we don't know so we can only guess about it...any way i think that there will be only one qiamaat because i don't think that in quran i have ever come across any reference to an earlier judgement day but ofcourse only Allah knows if there were any earliers qiyamats...but to my knowledge qiyamaat is fixed for us all on the day only Allah knows about...

[Girl from Quraysh]

Or was it all just an example?

It seems to me that there would be no need for an example. Once while discussing with a group of people, the concept of free will versus predestination in Islam, someone made the point, that Allah swt is not limited by anything, specifically in that case 'time'. Allah swt is not limited by time. He in His infinite knowledge knows everything that has come to pass and all that which will come to pass, while we as humans cannot know the future nor predict what may come to pass with any great degree of certainty. Hmmio, just to clarify, the latter wasn't a comparison, cause there just isn't any comparison. But 'kay back to your question. Because time poses no hurdle for Allah swt, could not He have portrayed for the Prophet (saw) the fate which awaited those here on earth, generations preceding and following that of the Prophet (saw)....allowing the Prophet (saw) to see without the limit of time....therefore, there being no need of providing an example/mirror.

I don't know if any of that'll make sense to you

[aishaA]

don't people who achive martyrdom go to heaven directly?

[Pristine]

So, is the consensus building that it was a sort of time travel? That Allah showed the Propher (SAWW) the future, by showing that look these are the people who ultimately end up in hell-fire because of such and such bad deeds. The purpose of this was so that the Prophet (SAWW) can go back to his ummah and tell them, and it will serve as a guidance and do's and don'ts. Is this correct?

[Hasnain]

Sister aishaA,

Yes, insha'Allaah they will go directly to Heaven on the day of Judgement.

For the ordinary person, following death, comes the life of the grave and then the Hereafter (Paradise or Hell). For the martyrs, after being martyred, comes the life of the 'Barzakh' and then the Hereafter (paradise).

For the martyrs, their bodies are in this world, but their souls are little green birds (as explained in an authentic hadeeth) flying around in Paradise. However, for all the other people (non-martyrs), they do not experience the life of the Barzakh, as their souls are returned to their bodies, to face either the fragrances of Paradise, or the punishment of the grave.

&peace

- - - - - - - -
"No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that He has willed it."

[Akif]

Originally posted by Pristine:
Coming back to the topic... are you saying that during Meraj, what the Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) saw was just a creation, sort of like a demo.. and it was not actual hell-fire or actual people?

hehe..I guess you can put it that way. Remember, on Mairaj, Prophet SAW saw his own self on the day of judgement, regarding what would happen with him (when he saw himself as being the first one to wake up after Hazrat Israel AS blew the souur, and found Hazrat Musa AS was already up, holding one end of Allah SWTs throne). He saw himself on the day of judgement, even though he hadnt passed on at that time. So yes, in a way you can say that was a recorded version.

However, the true essence of it, I guess, GFQ covered it well, is that Allah SWT is not dependent on any dimensions. That is why it is virtually impossible for humans to decipher the extent of power, knowledge and ability of Allah SWT. This, and many other questions that we humans come up with, are practically beyond our comprehension..and Allah SWT has said regarding many such 'questions', that whenever people ask you(Muhammad SAW) about these things, tell them that the knowledge of it lies with my Creator alone.

I really feel that the more we delve into such quests for discovery, the more we get confused..and frankly, the weaker our faith gets, since we run into so many tangents and doubts. Hence, its best for the sake of our faith to avoid discussions on topics that Allah SWT has said are exclusively in his knowledge.

[CM]

Ok since i posted once i will post in this thread, for my own education.
Is not religion a leap of blind faith in a God?
And is this God not omnipotent?
If so, why should we humans judge and question what is written?
Understanding is one, but right now all of you posting IMO are guessing, as you really don't know.
This pertains to the fact that you have valid questions about Qiyamat.
But why not just accept it and live life to the very best?
I wonder if this will be answered.

------------------
Our's not to reason why,
Our's but to do and die:

[Akif]

Sure it will be answered CM.
And you are right. One thing that you do have to understand is that its human nature to question things. Sometimes we learn facts the hard way. Sometimes we dont learn at all. Its an ongoing process, but the point is, if there is something written in the Quran, then we need to know it to understand it. If its not written, then we need to stay away from it, especially when Allah SWT Himself has said that the knowledge of it only lies with Him.

[sholay]

020.015 "Verily the Hour is coming - My design is to keep it hidden - for every soul to receive its reward by the measure of its Endeavour.

040.059 The Hour will certainly come: Therein is no doubt: Yet most men believe not.

033.063 Men ask thee concerning the Hour: Say, "The knowledge thereof is with Allah (alone)": and what will make thee understand?- perchance the Hour is nigh!

031.034 Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does any one know what it is that he will earn on the morrow: Nor does any one know in what land he is to die. Verily with Allah is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things).

[Pristine]

sholay,

Do you even read the thread before posting a reply, or do you just read the title of the post?

[The Old Man]

Anyway that we can know when the time is near, Sholay?

[sholay]

Pristine

I do both.

However, sometimes the title of the thread is a red herring, just to grab the Guppies attention or sometimes the posts are absolutely fantasies!!

But then you do also get threads and posts which are relevant to each other.


In this case, I just couldn't be bothered to elaborate on the discussion and decided to opt for quoting some of the Qur'aanic ayats concerning the 'Red Herring' title!!