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Followers of Muhammad(SAW) declared Kafir

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    Followers of Muhammad(SAW) declared Kafir

    Newly created Prophet of British Impire, declares followers of Muhammed(saw) kafirs, please read on:

    This is strange that you consider the person who rejects me and the person who calls me Kafir as two different persons, whereas in the eyes of God he is the same type; because he who does not accept me is because he considers me a fabricator..."
    (Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 22, P. 167)
    Scanned image of the above: http://www.irshad.org/idara/images/mzbooks/rk22h167.gif

    "O you who are called Muslims! If you really desire Islam's victory and invite the rest of the world to join you, then first come yourselves to the true Islam (Qadianism) which is available through the Promised Messiah (Mirza of Qadian). It is under his auspices that today the roads to goodness and righteousness are open. By following him alone, man can reach the desired goal of success and salvation. He is the same pride of the former and the latter mankind (Muhammad), who had come 13 centuries ago from now as 'Rahmatul Alemeen' (The Mercy to the Worlds)."
    (Al-Fadl, September 26, 1915; Qadiani Religion, P. 211-212/264, 9th Edition, Lahore)

    "To declare those who denied the Holy Prophet(SAW) in his first advent as Kafirs and outside the fold of Islam but to regard the deniers of his second advent (Mirza Ghulam) as Muslim is an insult to the Prophet and a joke against the signs of Allah, since the Promised Messiah has, in the Khutba-e-Ilhamia, compared the mutual relation between the first and the second advents of the Holy Prophet to the relations between the crescent and the full moon."
    (Al-Fadl, Vol. 3, No. 10, July 15, 1915; Qadiani Religion, P. 262)

    "The point is now quite clear. If it is Kofr to deny the Merciful Prophet, it must also be Kofr to deny the Promised Messiah, because the Promised Messiah is in no way a separate being from the Merciful Prophet; rather he is the same (Muhammad). If anyone is not considered a Kafir for denying the promised Messiah, then anyone else who denies the Merciful Prophet should not also be considered a Kafir. How is it possible that denying him in his first advent should be considered Kofr, but denying him in his second advent should not be regarded as Kofr, even thought, as claimed by the Promised Messiah, his spiritual attainment is stronger, more complete, and more severe."
    (Kalimat-ul-Fasl, P. 146-147; Review of Religions, March-April 1915)

    "Any person who believes in Moses but does not believe in Christ, or believes in Christ but does not believe in Muhammad or believes in Muhammad but does not believe in the Promised Messiah, is not only a Kafir, but he is a confirmed (Pakka) Kafir, and out of the fold of Islam."
    (Kalimat-ul-Fasl, P. 110, by Mirza Basheer Ahmad Qadiani)

    "All such Muslims as did not swear allegiance to the Promised Messiah (Mirza Ghulam Qadiani), even though they did not hear the name of the Promised Messiah, are Kafir and debarred from the fold of Islam."
    (Aiena-e-Sadaqat, P. 35, by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad Qadiani)

    "It is incumbent upon us that we should not regard non-Ahmadis as Muslims, nor should we offer prayers behind them, because according to our belief they deny one of the messengers of Allah. This is a matter of faith. None has any discretion in this."
    (Anwar-e-Khilafat, P. 90, by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad Qadiani)

    Koraan:
    They swear by Allah that they said nothing (evil), but indeed they uttered blasphemy, and they did it after accepting Islam; and they meditated a plot which they were unable to carry out: this revenge of theirs was (their) only return for the bounty with which Allah and His Messenger had enriched them! If they repent, it will be best for them; but if they turn back (to their evil ways), Allah will punish them with a grievous penalty in this life and in the Hereafter: They shall have none on earth to protect or help them.
    (The Holy Quran, Al-Tawba, 9:74)

    Now either the followers of Muhammad were and are MUSLIMS or followers of this British Prophet, it can't be both.


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    "I am not playing with a full deck!"

    #2
    Basit,

    Consider Hazrat Isa (as), returning to this earth from 2000 years ago! Desended from sky and is at the white minarate on the east side of Demascus!

    What would you consider those Muslims, who have seen him desend but still don't believe in him to be the Messiah?
    I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    - Robert McCloskey

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by ahmadjee:
      Basit,

      Consider Hazrat Isa (as), returning to this earth from 2000 years ago! Desended from sky and is at the white minarate on the east side of Demascus!

      What would you consider those Muslims, who have seen him desend but still don't believe in him to be the Messiah?
      in my personal opinion.... they'll still be muslims (less fortunate though) as long as they do what is said in Quran .... especially 02:285

      but the other signs will definitely tell people that he is messiah, like killing of dajjal.

      what is said about Gog and Magogs, anyone???
      ------------------
      We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

      [This message has been edited by Changez_like (edited September 10, 2001).]

      Comment


        #4
        Ahmdjee, that question doesn't belong here.

        Changeslike,

        The verse you are talking about in few of your replies:

        2:285 The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His apostles. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His apostles." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."

        How does, denying Mohammad(saw) and not obeying him still make you a Muslim?

        What about this verse:

        It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path.
        (The Holy Quran, Al-Ahzab 33:36)

        And this one:

        O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.
        (The Holy Quran, An-Nisa, 4:59)


        Jews and Christians believe in all prophets and God, but they don't obey Mohammad(saw) does that mean, they are Muslims?

        ------------------
        "I am not playing with a full deck!"

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Abdul Basit:
          .....

          Jews and Christians believe in all prophets and God, but they don't obey Mohammad(saw) does that mean, they are Muslims?

          Jews don't beleive in ALL prophets, they didn't accept Jesus (Essa AH), and didn't accept Prophet PBUH either. Prophet PBUH brought COMPLETE RELIGION (not just amendments to previous one).

          (some) Christians beleive that Essah AH is Allah (naooz billah) which is in 'clear' contradiction with "la ilaha il-Allah".

          However, I may be wrong, but if Jews beleived in Moosa AH and prophets before him and act on what Moosa AH was revealed (same applies for Christians who do beleive in ONE Allah) then they may have an OK standing. But I'll try to find related aayats if any. They are NOT "Muslims" anyway.

          For Mehdi AH, he will be from the "followers" of Prophet PBUH and will not bring "new religion/faith/beleif", and he is not part of "Muslim FAITH/BELEIF". We do beleive that he will be sent, but if you are following Islam and you do not accept Mehdi AH as your leader, you should not be in "trouble"..... guide me if I'm wrong, use Qurani ayats to support your statements first, otherwise use ahaadeeth.

          ------------------
          We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

          Comment


            #6
            Basit,

            The question is in full accordance with the post here.

            Why would you want to object on someone else, when you yourself believe the same way?

            So, lets hear it from you, what would you consider Muslims who will not follow Hazrat Isa (as) after he desends? It will be really nice if you give me some refrence of your belief also!
            I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
            - Robert McCloskey

            Comment


              #7
              Changeslike, but they do not obey Muhammad(saw), do they? Allah asks us to obey the Prophet Muhammad(saw) in Koraan so we may not go on the wrong path.

              About not supporting Imam Mehdi and not accepting him, that is something I lack knowledge of whether you are still Muslim or not but some ahadeeth:

              A group of my Ummah will fight for the truth until near the day of judgment when Jesus, the son of Marry, will descend, and the leader of them will ask him to lead the prayer, but Jesus declines, saying: "No, Verily, among you Allah has made leaders for others and He has bestowed his bounty upon them.
              (Sahih Muslim)



              ------------------
              "I am not playing with a full deck!"

              Comment


                #8
                Ahmdjee,

                My intial post is about Mirza Qadiani trying to validate his argument that he is the Messiah, and those who do not follow him are Kafirs. But according to Islamic belief, and Islamic authentic books and tradition of Muhammad(saw) Messiah has not arrived yet, and people who clame they are Messiahs do not match the identification that our Prophet Muhammad(saw) gave in his authentic ahaadeeths.

                About your question:

                A group of my Ummah will fight for the truth until near the day of judgment when Jesus, the son of Marry, will descend, and the leader of them will ask him to lead the prayer, but Jesus declines, saying: "No, Verily, among you Allah has made leaders for others and He has bestowed his bounty upon them.
                (Sahih Muslim)

                So, when jesus comes, the leader of the Muslim ummah at that time(which will be Imam Mehdi) will ask him to lead the prayer and Jesus will decline...as you can read the whole ahaadeeths.

                So, you see Jesus's(messiah) coming and Imam Mehdi are 2 different individuals. And Mirza Qadiani claimed to be both at the same time.

                ------------------
                "I am not playing with a full deck!"

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Abdul Basit:
                  Changeslike, but they do not obey Muhammad(saw), do they? Allah asks us to obey the Prophet Muhammad(saw) in Koraan so we may not go on the wrong path.
                  ....
                  I think, its for "Muslims" to follow Prophet PBUH and especially when we are trying to understand/follow Quran. But if Jews and Christians follow their "book"s, they will not be "Muslims" but may be on right path as we beleive in previous prophets and books revealed unto them as "true" and from Allah.

                  ------------------
                  We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Abdul Basit,

                    About your question:

                    A group of my Ummah will fight for the truth until near the day of judgment when Jesus, the son of Marry, will descend, and the leader of them will ask him to lead the prayer, but Jesus declines, saying: "No, Verily, among you Allah has made leaders for others and He has bestowed his bounty upon them.
                    (Sahih Muslim)

                    So, when jesus comes, the leader of the Muslim ummah at that time(which will be Imam Mehdi) will ask him to lead the prayer and Jesus will decline...as you can read the whole ahaadeeths.

                    So, you see Jesus's(messiah) coming and Imam Mehdi are 2 different individuals. And Mirza Qadiani claimed to be both at the same time.
                    Let me humbly point out to you that my question was not regarding Messiah and Mahdi being two different people. Let me rephrase it one more time:

                    1. Hazrat Isa (as) has come down to Demascus, but not all Muslims are following him ... to those who fail to realize that he is the true Messiah, what is your fatwa, are they Muslims? Or Not? Yes? No?

                    2. Hazrat Imam Mehdi has apeared and he is taking baits from his followers. There are a few who do not consider his claim to be valid, what would you consider them, Muslims? Non-Muslims? Kafirs?
                    I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
                    - Robert McCloskey

                    Comment

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