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    Taliban - the right way?

    1. Is Taliban's State, the True Islamic State?

    2. Mulah Umer, the Taliban's Head of state, never seen in public....no one knows him....except his team mates.......Has he the right to become a Leader from Islamic point of view??

    #2
    The Taliban cannot be described as having established an Islamic state according to the writings of Maulana Syed Abul 'Ala Maududi, who stated that an Islamic State is founded on 3 principles.

    1.) Tawheed, literally meaning Unity of God, and in this case meaning that the State accepts Allah as being its sovereign.

    2. Risalat, meaning Prophethood, in this case meaning that the state accepts that the instructions from Allah regarding how to run the state are in the teachings of the Prophet Mohammad (SAWS), and must be followed.

    3. Khilafat, meaning Vicigerency, in this case meaning that all people in the State who ascribe the the first 2 principles stated above elect a person from amongst themselves to rule over them according to Allah's instructions.


    The Taliban have set up a state where they follow and accept Tawheed and Risalat but NOT the principle of Khilafat, as their head of state is not chosen by an election held amongst the muslim citizens of the Taliban-controlled areas of Afghanistan.

    [This message has been edited by mAd_ScIeNtIsT (edited August 29, 2001).]
    Muslims are so good at dividing that they can divide the atom. If you see two Muslims, probably they belong to 3 parties.
    Al-Ghazali

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT:
      The Taliban cannot be described as having established an Islamic state according to the writings of Maulana Syed Abul 'Ala Maududi,

      The Taliban have set up a state where they follow and accept Tawheed and Risalat but NOT the principle of Khilafat, as their head of state is not chosen by an election held amongst the muslim citizens of the Taliban-controlled areas of Afghanistan.

      Thats assuming that the formulea used by Maududi is correct

      Comment


        #4
        Brothers......

        First we should know that there is a big difference between watching cruel Talibans on CNN or BBc and meeting actal humble Talibans in Afghanistan.

        If we try to match Talibans govt with the principles of Hadrat Abu Bakr and Hadrat Umer (Radi Allah an hum) then we will see many gaps, but if we try to compare it with existing all Muslim countries, this is the best govt on earth.

        I don't agree with many Taliban rules but still praise them for the closest match with Hadrat Umer's (Radi Allah an hu) political system.

        Either its Hindus in Afghanistan.......
        Demolition of Shias Mosques.....
        Restriction on women......Its all our Western Media's propeganda. Its not like that at all.

        Bro approaching Mullah Umer is as easy as seeing your next door neighbour

        You can see any Taliban official after Zuher's prayer......but at any time in case of emergency.

        Afghani people are hard working.....
        they eat less and simple food but their faces are full of joy and satisfaction. They will consider you a blessing as a guest and insist you to have dinner with them. In the night they would sit and talk in the middle of the village(an old Afghani tradition which was effected due to war, Taliban brought it back) They sleep in peace. There are no weapons around any more. No killing, theft, conflicts on land etc etc.

        Your mother, sister, wife and daughter are all safe and can travel alone in the middle of the night with nil concerns. Everybody is same.....same clothes, same houses, same food, same hospitals, same schools same living styles......

        There is nobody rich nevermind how mouch money he is got.......

        There is nobody poor nevermind however less his earnings are......

        If you go there you feel peace all around you....... you feel Blessing and Baraka of Allah all around you.

        Comment


          #5
          Well I do support the Taliban to a limited extent as I view them as having made the most honest effort to implement the Islamic Political System in the world today. However, as I stated earlier, I believe that they have omitted a major part of the requirements of an Islamic State.
          Muslims are so good at dividing that they can divide the atom. If you see two Muslims, probably they belong to 3 parties.
          Al-Ghazali

          Comment


            #6
            Wasir, from your post I'm assuming that you must have visited Afghanistan recently. Is this correct? You mentioned no restrictions for females there. I'm very curious to ask this as I've never been to Afghanistan myself and would like to get an opinion from someone who has - while you were there, did you see for yourself females easily travelling alone at night, attending schools, and going to work ? If you don't mind my asking, which part of Afghanistan did you live in and for how long were you there?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Nadia_H:
              Wasir, from your post I'm assuming that you must have visited Afghanistan recently. Is this correct? You mentioned no restrictions for females there. I'm very curious to ask this as I've never been to Afghanistan myself and would like to get an opinion from someone who has - while you were there, did you see for yourself females easily travelling alone at night, attending schools, and going to work ? If you don't mind my asking, which part of Afghanistan did you live in and for how long were you there?
              For a slice of life on afghani females, do see the CNN documentary on Afghanistan/Taliban. These jackasses should be ashamed of themselves.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT:
                The Taliban have set up a state where they follow and accept Tawheed and Risalat but NOT the principle of Khilafat, as their head of state is not chosen by an election held amongst the muslim citizens of the Taliban-controlled areas of Afghanistan.

                MANY MANY MORE.........NO and now finito..read my posting in WORLD SEC.;
                "Taliban....".


                ------------------
                "kaisay na karta usko main pyar, uski haseen main sukh thay hazaar, bichar gayay hum dukh ki hay baat"
                Ain't new ta this....HOMEINVASION('93)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Infoman:
                  For a slice of life on afghani females, do see the CNN documentary on Afghanistan/Taliban. These jackasses should be ashamed of themselves.
                  Also watch info-unmanly likes bharwaz in India prostituting their females to their army leaders. I'm not making it up, it was reported by Indians themselves.

                  Taliban should be expected to be ashamed of them selves because they at least have some.

                  Info-unmanly, your jackasses (Indians) are transporting drugs from Tajikistan and also women from there, which have been reported by the country you kiss ass to (USA), how do you as a professional kissass/jackass/bung-holed-ass feel about that?



                  ------------------
                  *We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile*
                  Sin: Osama Bin Junior

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by wasir:
                    Brothers......

                    First we should know that there is a big difference between watching cruel Talibans on CNN or BBc and meeting actal humble Talibans in Afghanistan.

                    If we try to match Talibans govt with the principles of Hadrat Abu Bakr and Hadrat Umer (Radi Allah an hum) then we will see many gaps, but if we try to compare it with existing all Muslim countries, this is the best govt on earth.

                    I don't agree with many Taliban rules but still praise them for the closest match with Hadrat Umer's (Radi Allah an hu) political system.

                    Either its Hindus in Afghanistan.......
                    Demolition of Shias Mosques.....
                    Restriction on women......Its all our Western Media's propeganda. Its not like that at all.

                    Bro approaching Mullah Umer is as easy as seeing your next door neighbour

                    You can see any Taliban official after Zuher's prayer......but at any time in case of emergency.

                    Afghani people are hard working.....
                    they eat less and simple food but their faces are full of joy and satisfaction. They will consider you a blessing as a guest and insist you to have dinner with them. In the night they would sit and talk in the middle of the village(an old Afghani tradition which was effected due to war, Taliban brought it back) They sleep in peace. There are no weapons around any more. No killing, theft, conflicts on land etc etc.

                    Your mother, sister, wife and daughter are all safe and can travel alone in the middle of the night with nil concerns. Everybody is same.....same clothes, same houses, same food, same hospitals, same schools same living styles......

                    There is nobody rich nevermind how mouch money he is got.......

                    There is nobody poor nevermind however less his earnings are......

                    If you go there you feel peace all around you....... you feel Blessing and Baraka of Allah all around you.
                    You're right.

                    We should ask the thousands of Afghani refugees in Pakistan and Iran on what they think of the Taliban.

                    And if you live in Australia, you can ask the 400 + refugees stranded on the Norwegian ship what they think as well.

                    Guys like u, Wasir, should be shipped to Afghanistan to get a taste of what its like. Very easy to claim greatness living in foreign lands, isn't it ?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Nadia_H……
                      I don't want to answer if I have been there or not for some reasons. But I will answer second question about females.
                      In Kabul separate schools for girls have been set up and all teachers are female and this is expanding to few other big provinces. There is only one Medical University in Afghanistan, which has been divided in two parts, one for boys and the other for girls. Amazingly the number of female medical students is more than male students in that Uni.

                      Yes women travel alone in the middle of the night…….during the month of Ramadhan at Sehri time around 3 a.m. you will see women wandering in the streets going each others house to present them Sehri in the form of bread, butter milk etc…..this is considered as a big deed. Most men are asleep at that time as they need some sleep so that they can work hard during the day. You will also see women going to the fields well before dawn, they will work in the fields until their men come from the mosques and take over. All this couldn't be even considered for one day before Taliban. There are no rapes any more. Yes Taliban's restriction of Pardah is very strict.

                      Mr Infoman…….I think you didn't read my previous post carefully. What CNN and BBC are showing us about Talibans is totally false, its totally other way round. If they are so sincere to Afghanis why don't they help them instead of laughing on them. Instead of giving weapons to Masood why don't they provide them food. One russian rocket which india supplies to Masood is enough to fee 87 Afghan families for 6 months if we are to exchange it with food.

                      Bro a1shah……..Yes there are thousands of refugees on Pak-Afgan border but you didn't check one thing. Almost %90 of those refugees are from those areas which are under war due to Ahmed Shah Masood's non sensical fight against Taliban. Those areas are under Masood's control but he can't help them and Taliban can't do anything about it as well as they have no control there. Other refugees come from far areas of Afghanistan where Taliban are not active due to lack of money and resources. Big number of farmers who used to grow a crop (forgot the name) which was used to make drugs, are not allowed to carry on doing this any more and Talibans are unable to help them yet so they are also leaving Afghanistan.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Nadia_H:
                        Wasir, from your post I'm assuming that you must have visited Afghanistan recently. Is this correct? You mentioned no restrictions for females there. I'm very curious to ask this as I've never been to Afghanistan myself and would like to get an opinion from someone who has - while you were there, did you see for yourself females easily travelling alone at night, attending schools, and going to work ? If you don't mind my asking, which part of Afghanistan did you live in and for how long were you there?
                        If there's a valid reason i.e emergency- when a woman has no choice but to leave the house all on her own- then I am sure there is no harm.

                        However, keep in mind that in any rural Pakhtoon area, whether it's in Afghanistan, NWFP, or Baluchistan- you would seldom see a women wandering around alone at night all by herself. It is against the traditions and culture. The sole purpose is to protect the dignity and honor of women.

                        There are numerous Afghan women working with aid agencies, especially in the fields of collecting data. Where they have to inside the houses and interact with host females.




                        [This message has been edited by Abdullah k (edited August 29, 2001).]

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Wasir, many many thanks for your reply. I am sorry if I sidetracked the discussion towards you on a personal level, that wasn't my intention at all. I posted my queries only out of curiosity to learn more about your experiences. Thank you, I appreciate the detailed reply. You discussed the issue of schools - from your post I assume that schooling is allowed for everyone, regardless of gender, right? I have read in numerous places that females beyond the age of 12 are not allowed to study at any institutions (although homeschooling I think is allowed) - from your post, I assume you would disagree strongly with this, especially since you mentioned the Medical University. It might be helpful if there was an official comparative analysis (independently sponsored) regarding the numbers of female and male students there, both pre- and post- Taleban rule. If anyone has any links, I would greatly appreciate their posting it here (or in the WA forum).

                          Abdullah_K, yes that is a very valid point regarding particular cultural norms and females travelling alone at night. The reason I had mentioned that in my post to Wasir is because I was wondering whether he had actually observed females in Afghanistan being allowed to do that. In regards to Salik's two questions at the beginning of this thread, in your opinion, have the Taleban established a "true Islamic state" and do you endorse Mullah Umer's being the leader?

                          [This message has been edited by Nadia_H (edited August 29, 2001).]

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Nadia, here is a link to a report from the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.

                            UNOCHA Report

                            Scroll down until you reach the following block of text:

                            Kandahar Nursing School First Semester Passing Ceremony

                            On 7 February a ceremony to celebrate the graduation of the first term of the nursing education for Kandahar Nursing School students (55 female and 50 male) was held at the school in the Kandahar Regional Hospital. Visiting ambassadors as well as representatives from various UN agencies attended.

                            The severe shortage of intermediate medical staff, especially of females, urged the Regional Directorate of the Public Health Department in southern region, to resume the activities of the Kandahar Nursing School after almost 23 years. Over 100 female and male students are studying in the school under 22 female and male teachers (seven of whom are medical doctors). A total of 14 support and admin staff is facilitating the smooth functioning of the school. The initial term for graduation from school is three years of theoretical and practical lessons. The school standard curriculum of intermediate medical education is as recommended by the WHO.

                            The first semester results indicated a 97% passing rate, all of whom were women. In order to celebrate the graduation occasion, a formal ceremony was held on 7 February 2001 at the Nursing School where rewarded for their efforts during the first semester.

                            In addition to MoPH, a number of UN agencies and the Governments of the Netherlands and Switzerland provide support to the Kandahar Nursing School. The MoPH in the southern region have now announced the resumption of another nursing school in Bost City of Lashkar-Gah, the provincial capital of Helmand Province, for 110 female and male students.

                            It should be noted that the overall management and running of the school is entirely the responsibility of MoPH and in this regard relevant assistance agencies are involved in a long-term process of capacity building aiming at local self-sufficiency and sustainability. More support to the Kandahar Nursing School and the Lashkar Gah Nursing School is needed.

                            ------------------------------------------

                            You can see that the women are in further education, albeit in a limited field, in Kandahar, the very heart of the Taliban. This shows thatthe Taliban have given their blessing to the education of women, and more to the point, by training women as nurses, are permitting them to work.
                            Muslims are so good at dividing that they can divide the atom. If you see two Muslims, probably they belong to 3 parties.
                            Al-Ghazali

                            Comment


                              #15

                              "Women can travel alone in the middle of the night".........

                              Don't go too deep its just an examle, means everybody feels secure there.

                              After Russia evecuated from Afghanistan, different groups started fighting with each other.

                              Those who were Mujahideens, became devils.....Just one incident

                              Taliban Leader Mullah Umer was travelling with a Carvan to get to Pakistan.

                              Near Jalal Abad they were stopped by an armed group of so called "Mujahideens" for checking.

                              Those people saw a beautiful 13/14 years old boy with them.....they took him away and raped him.......Do you feel disgusted, so was Mullah Umer but he couldn't do anything at that time but then he started working on Talibans concept after entering Pakistan.

                              He did it without any modern weapons or major training but it was his sincere will which made it possible. Teenage students fought with well organised and well experienced groups in Afghanistan and Allah made them victorious. Mullah Umer didn't compromise with any group because he was really disgusted by that incident.

                              After getting power his first order was to disarm everybody.

                              Whenever Mullah Umer passes through that road where he had witnessed that incident he starts crying because he couldn't save that innocent boy at that time.

                              There is nothing but just a sincere will power behind Talibans.

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