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Is Allah a he?

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    Is Allah a he?

    When ever Changez, Sholay and Ibrahim recite quranic verses in their incessant rantings they refer to Allah as he. Now, if Allah is not a male or a female or a thing or whatever then why "he". They claim that in the translation to english "he" is the best description.

    That could mean two things. The quran is being altered or that Allah is like man. If the latter then we can worship "him" by creating the likeness of him in pictures and idols. Thus islam promotes idolatory.

    Any takers?

    And please do not give me references to the quran to justifies what it says in the quran. That's circular logic.

    thanks in advance.


    #2
    Originally posted by Infoman:
    When ever Changez, Sholay and Ibrahim recite quranic verses in their incessant rantings they refer to Allah as he. Now, if Allah is not a male or a female or a thing or whatever then why "he". They claim that in the translation to english "he" is the best description.

    That could mean two things. The quran is being altered or that Allah is like man. If the latter then we can worship "him" by creating the likeness of him in pictures and idols. Thus islam promotes idolatory.

    Any takers?

    And please do not give me references to the quran to justifies what it says in the quran. That's circular logic.

    thanks in advance.

    Without refering to Deutronomy, Bible or Quran, I can say only that religion is a male dominated society and since God is supposed to have said that He created Man in His image, it has been assumed that God should be refered to as 'He'. This is the best i can do without refering to any of the Holy Books.

    Comment


      #3
      Info,

      What do you think the translation should be in English for something that does not posses a gender?

      If the translators had translated 'She' for God then would that had been more appropriate? But why?

      >That could mean two things. The quran is being altered <<<<

      I define alteration as 'alteration in the orginal text' not in the different interpretations in the translations. That's why its almost always that whenever Quran is published the Arabic is along with the translation! So, your conclution is baseless.

      >>>>or that Allah is like man. If the latter then we can worship "him" by creating the likeness of him in pictures and idols. Thus islam promotes idolatory.

      How can a limitation in language carve out a belief that is not orginally in the belief system? Are you talking with experience with Hinduism?

      Even if it was true, and Allah is to be considered like a man, I don't understand it in anyway related to 'creating the likeness of him in pictures' .... how did you come up with that logic?
      I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
      - Robert McCloskey

      Comment


        #4
        >>>>that religion is a male dominated society <<<<

        Maybe you can shed some light on the gender of God (if you believe in God) as to what should it be?!
        I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
        - Robert McCloskey

        Comment


          #5
          MDPiazza said it very well. If the prophets were females, then Allah will be a She. Regardless, whether He, She, or It, God is not someone that needs any labels or Titles. Greeks and Romans poked fun at their Gods and called them Names I sincerely believe that their God(s) were not any less celestial than Allah or any other God.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by ahmadjee:
            Info,

            What do you think the translation should be in English for something that does not posses a gender?

            If the translators had translated 'She' for God then would that had been more appropriate? But why?

            >That could mean two things. The quran is being altered <<<<

            I define alteration as 'alteration in the orginal text' not in the different interpretations in the translations. That's why its almost always that whenever Quran is published the Arabic is along with the translation! So, your conclution is baseless.

            >>>>or that Allah is like man. If the latter then we can worship "him" by creating the likeness of him in pictures and idols. Thus islam promotes idolatory.

            How can a limitation in language carve out a belief that is not orginally in the belief system? Are you talking with experience with Hinduism?

            Even if it was true, and Allah is to be considered like a man, I don't understand it in anyway related to 'creating the likeness of him in pictures' .... how did you come up with that logic?
            In english the term "it" can reflect a thing that is shapeless & with no gender.

            I disagree the very minute you change an 'it" to 'he' the properties of the subject change. Therefore, those who do not know arabic but are muslims will always think of Allah as a 'he' per your logic. Which it is not. Therefore, quran is being altered everyday from it's original text to what people who translate it from arabic to other languages.

            Comment


              #7
              And Dopiza ... please do add in your answer which society there is existant on earth which is not male dominated?
              I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
              - Robert McCloskey

              Comment


                #8
                Info,

                But 'it' is also used for things that have no life! Like a wood, plastic, steel etc. And as per 'your logic' 'IT' can be be worshiped by 'creating the likeness of him in pictures' such as idols! Thus if Allah is refered to as 'it' still Islam will be encouraging Idolatory! Don't you think?

                And what would you say to someone who asks why Allah is refered to as 'It' (a lifeless thing) if Allah is the giver & taker of life?!

                Therefore, no matter what pronoun you come up with for Allah in English there will be someone not happy! Right now, in your opinion you are happy with IT and some others insist God to be SHE! And triditionally God is refered as HE!

                Still, a different translation does not mean alteration in the orginal text. As the orignal is still there as it is!

                [This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited August 28, 2001).]
                I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
                - Robert McCloskey

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by ahmadjee:
                  Info,

                  But 'it' is also used for things that have no life! Like a wood, plastic, steel etc. And as per 'your logic' 'IT' can be be worshiped by 'creating the likeness of him in pictures' such as idols! Thus if Allah is refered to as 'it' still Islam will be encouraging Idolatory! Don't you think?

                  And what would you say to someone who asks why Allah is refered to as 'It' (a lifeless thing) if Allah is the giver & taker of life?!

                  Therefore, no matter what pronoun you come up with for Allah in English there will be someone not happy! Right now, in your opinion you are happy with IT and some others insist God to be SHE! And triditionally God is refered as HE!

                  Still, a different translation does not mean alteration in the orginal text. As the orignal is still there as it is!

                  [This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited August 28, 2001).]

                  Animals are refered to as "it" Plants as "it". DO they not have life?

                  The true greatness of scripture is not the text but the interpretation and following of it. So if the message can be interpreted as Allah being refered to has a 'he" then humanity can picture Allah in Human form (term he being reserved for human males) therefore it is in contradiction to the quran suggesting that Allah is a shapeless and sexless being.

                  One or the other is wrong.You pick!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    sure seems like allah is a male or at least he favors men and prefers addressing his orders to them.

                    no where in the quran, does allah tell the readers "to tell their men this and that"

                    however, there are numerous portions, which tell the reader "to their wives to do this and that"

                    obviously, god is addressing a male reader.

                    nevermind, the descriptions of heaven, which come from a male perspective.......................houris?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Let me ask you this, if 'IT' is used for animals, do they not have gender/sex? Why does English uses two pronouns 'it' and 'he/she' for animals. This is surely a contradiction and thus making English an ambiguous language!

                      And I have always used my Linux box as 'He', would that make 'it' a male? And would that be incorrect use of English?

                      Please correct the following:

                      I usually wash my car every weekend and 'she' looks great after 'her' weekly cleanup!
                      I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
                      - Robert McCloskey

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by ahmadjee:


                        Please correct the following:

                        I usually wash my car every weekend and 'she' looks great after 'her' weekly cleanup!
                        I usually wash my car every weekend and 'it' looks great after its weekly cleanup.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Well the use of masculine terminology in the Quran matches the words of the Prophet (SAWS) himself - there is absolutely no record of a pronoun other than "he" being used by the Prophets (SAWS) when referring to God.

                          [This message has been edited by mAd_ScIeNtIsT (edited August 28, 2001).]
                          Muslims are so good at dividing that they can divide the atom. If you see two Muslims, probably they belong to 3 parties.
                          Al-Ghazali

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by ahmadjee:
                            >>>>that religion is a male dominated society <<<<

                            Maybe you can shed some light on the gender of God (if you believe in God) as to what should it be?!
                            I already did. Are you blind?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Mullah_DoPiazza:
                              I already did. Are you blind?
                              No, I am just trying to clearfy your opinion before I respond, so there are no misunderstandings. Are you familiar with that concept of clearity?
                              I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
                              - Robert McCloskey

                              Comment

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