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    Is this a true Hadees??????

    Sahih Muslim, English version, v2, Chapter DLXVI, titled: Suckling a Young boy, Tradition #3424

    Hazrat Aisha (R.A) reported that Sahla Bint Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) smiled and said: I already know that he is a young man. Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn Umar (the words are): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) laughed.
    Sahih Muslim, English version, v2, Chapter DLXVI, titled: Suckling a Young boy, Tradition #3424.

    #2
    Originally posted by hello hello:
    [b] Sahih Muslim, English version, v2, Chapter DLXVI, titled: Suckling a Young boy, Tradition #3424

    Hazrat Aisha (R.A) reported that Sahla Bint Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) smiled and said: I already know that he is a young man. Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn Umar (the words are): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) laughed.

    Ibrahim says; salaams to all.


    yes! the hadith is right and had been given in a jovial manner and conveyed as such, so that Abu Hudhaifa would not have any more reason to feel disgust when Salim visits them in their house.

    BUT most of all, it has been given a commentary NO: 1905 and according to the commentary : What the Prophet (pbuh) meant was that somehow she should take out a bit of her milk and administer it to him and thus foster him

    This meant that Salim was unlawful for her and Abu Hudhaifa had nothing to be annoyed about in future., IF he happens to visit their house.

    Allah (swt) knows best.

    Comment


      #3
      I dont get this

      ------------------
      "kaisay na karta usko main pyar, uski haseen main sukh thay hazaar, bichar gayay hum dukh ki hay baat"
      Ain't new ta this....HOMEINVASION('93)

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Ibrahim:


        yes! the hadith is right
        What the Prophet (pbuh) meant was that somehow she should take out a bit of her milk and administer it to him and thus foster him


        Allah (swt) knows best.

        [/B]
        Bhai Ibrahim Salam: Doesn't Quran says that only a child UNDER 2 years of age may be suckled by the mother. It is clear in the Quran.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Ali_R:
          I dont get this

          me neither

          Comment


            #6

            Originally posted by hello hello:
            Bhai Ibrahim Salam: Doesn't Quran says that only a child UNDER 2 years of age may be suckled by the mother. It is clear in the Quran.
            Ibrahim says; salaams to all

            Apparently you were unable to digest the hadith based on the keywords that I had highlighted.

            1) This is a case of Jealousy by the Husband (Abu Hudhaifa) towards Salim

            When the Prophet heard it he “smiled”

            The only way to resolve this problem was to tell/convince her husband that the she considered Salim “like her foster son” and nothing more

            Hence when the Prophet (pbuh) conveyed that She should “suckle him” IT meant that she should inform Abu Hudhaifa that she considers him like her foster son and he has nothing to feel annoyed about. . Since the Prophet (pbuh) had been consulted and his advise being noted by Abu hudhaifa , Abu hudhaifa had nothing to be annoyed about anymore.

            The reason why the Prophet (pbuh) “laughed” after conveying that she should suckle him.


            Hence do not confuse this hadith (which is only applicable to this case) with sucking of children

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Ibrahim:




              Hence when the Prophet (pbuh) conveyed that She should “suckle him” IT meant that she should inform Abu Hudhaifa that she considers him like her foster son and he has nothing to feel annoyed about.


              Salam Ibrahim Bahai: If you are correct in suggesting that it meant only to inform abu hudhaifa that she considers him like her foster son, then why did she argue that how can she suckle a grown up man. This sentence alone means that they were talking about actually physically doing that.
              "whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man?"

              Another hadees in the same chapter goes as follows.
              Sahih Muslim, English version, v2, Chapter DLXVI, titled: Suckling a Young boy, Tradition #3428
              Zainab daughter of Abu Salama reported: I heard Umm Salama, the wife of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him), saying to Aisha: By Allah, I do not like to be seen by a young boy who has passed the period of fosterage, whereupon She (Aisha) said: Why is it so? Sahla daughter of Suhail came to Allah's messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Allah's messenger, I swear by Allah that I see in the face of Abu Hudhaifa (the signs of disgust) on account of entering of Salim (in the house), whereupon Allah's messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She (Sahlah Bint Suhail) said: He has a beard. But he (again) said: Suckle him, and it would remove what is there (expression of disgust) on the face of Abu Hudhaifa. She said: (I did that) and , by Allah, I did not see (any sign of disgust) on the face of Abu Hudhaifa.

              again in this hadees there is a reluctance in doing the act, because the suhail is a grown up man with a beard. Otherwise why would somebody will show reluctance if it meant only to inform that person that she considers him like a foster child.
              .


              Comment


                #8
                [QUOTE]Originally posted by hello hello:
                Salam Ibrahim Bahai: If you are correct in suggesting that it meant only to inform abu hudhaifa that she considers him like her foster son, then why did she argue that how can she suckle a grown up man. This sentence alone means that they were talking about actually physically doing that.

                Ibrahim says: salaams to all.
                My friend, you are reading into that hadith more than what it conveys. There was NO argument but the reconfirmation that the person (Salim) was NOT a child anymore, that can be suckled, which The Prophet (pbuh) was well aware of. (which would be the reason which made the Prophet (pbuh) smile upon hearing it and laugh after having told the remedy for it.)
                [b] In addition you have forgotten the commentary that I posted earlier which conveyed how she was to obtain some milk from her person).
                On the other hand the second hadith tells us that the act was done, which means it was not revealed to Abu hadhaifa but actually enacted as conveyed by the Prophet (pbuh). Either way there is NO problem, since the matter was resolved.

                The subsequent hadith 3429 and 3430 tells you that it was specific to the case of salim who was the freed slave of Abu hudhaifa ( who incidentally grew up in that family and reached puberty in that family environment which allowed his free movement in their presence. , hence the problem and the remedy given by the Prophet (pbuh) for that situation only) .

                This does not mean that we should do this If we want to make any grown up man a foster child.

                My earlier suggestion that implied that it was only meant to be conveyed to Abu Hudhaifa is obviously in error since I failed to read the other hadith which reveals that the act was done BUT not by breast feeding the man BUT by giving some of her milk after obtaining it from her person.

                Let me repeat! this is specific for this case only kindly read the entire package of hadiths from 3424 to 3430 to understand this better.


                Comment


                  #9
                  Are you interested in "clarifying" this Hadith or are you calling ISLAM into question?!

                  ------------------
                  "kaisay na karta usko main pyar, uski haseen main sukh thay hazaar, bichar gayay hum dukh ki hay baat"

                  [This message has been edited by Ali_R (edited August 23, 2001).]
                  Ain't new ta this....HOMEINVASION('93)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Ibrahim:
                    [B


                    My friend, you are reading into that hadith more than what it conveys ...............which would be the reason which made the Prophet (pbuh) smile upon hearing it and laugh after having told the remedy for it.)

                    In addition you have forgotten the commentary that I posted earlier which conveyed how she was to obtain some milk from her person).
                    On the other hand the second hadith tells us that the act was done, which means it was not revealed to Abu hadhaifa but actually enacted as conveyed by the Prophet (pbuh). Either way there is NO problem, since the matter was resolved.

                    The subsequent hadith 3429 and 3430 tells you that it was specific to the case of salim who was the freed slave of Abu hudhaifa .... hence the problem and the remedy given by the Prophet (pbuh) for that situation only) .

                    Quote*****"......made the Prophet (pbuh) smile upon hearing it and laugh after having told the remedy for it.)"


                    Ibrahim Bahai: Rasool(pbuh) does not make jokes, as it says in quran that Rasool(pbuh) doesn't say anything on his own except only what Allah wants him to say.


                    Quote*******".....I posted earlier which conveyed how she was to obtain some milk from her person".


                    Ibrahim Bahai: It says in hadees to "suckle him", and in those days it meant only breast feed. it doesn't say anywhere to obtain some milk from her person.


                    Quote*****".....second hadith tells us that the act was done, which means it was not revealed to Abu hadhaifa.

                    Ibrahim Bahai: where does it says in hadees that act was done and it wasn't revealed to Abu Hudaifa?????


                    Quote****** "....it was specific to the case of salim who was the freed slave of Abu hudhaifa .... hence the problem and the remedy given by the Prophet (pbuh) for that situation only) ".


                    Ibrahim Bahai: Rasool (pbuh) doesn't suggest anything for a specific case only, If he disallowed/Allowed anything for a common muslim than it is allowed/disallowed for every muslim.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Ali_R:
                      Are you interested in "clarifying" this Hadith or are you calling ISLAM into question?!

                      I am only describing a hadees quoted few times in Sahai Muslim.

                      Basically this hadees suggests that any women can make a non mehram muslim into a mehrum muslim by breast feeding him regardless of his age. Even a man with beard can be breast fed by any women to make him mehram for her.

                      The reason I am saying all this is to prove that this hadees is wrong, and Sahai Satta which includes sahai muslim are not totally sahai. the above hadees doesn't match with Quran or sunnah or ikhlaq and we should not believe in it. Believe only what matches with Quran and Rasool's Itrat.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Asalamoelekum

                        Kindly refrain from trying to prove something wrong unless you have the expertise to do so. you are no muhaddis and it is a very serious matter to challange vevery thing that does not appeal to your mind.

                        it is very clear that a woman cannot show her breast to a man, other than her husband or her infants. As it is not possible for the Prophet to allow something that is contraary to a stated law therefore you would need to study that hadees again and ask an expert in the matter to clarify it.

                        i completly agree to the commentry provided by Br. Ibrahim wherein it states that the milk was to be administered by taking it out and then given to him to drink off. there cannot be better explanation.

                        Originally posted by hello hello:
                        I am only describing a hadees quoted few times in Sahai Muslim.

                        Basically this hadees suggests that any women can make a non mehram muslim into a mehrum muslim by breast feeding him regardless of his age. Even a man with beard can be breast fed by any women to make him mehram for her.

                        The reason I am saying all this is to prove that this hadees is wrong, and Sahai Satta which includes sahai muslim are not totally sahai. the above hadees doesn't match with Quran or sunnah or ikhlaq and we should not believe in it. Believe only what matches with Quran and Rasool's Itrat.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Papa Smurf:


                          i completly agree to the commentry provided by Br. Ibrahim wherein it states that the milk was to be administered by taking it out and then given to him to drink off. there cannot be better explanation.

                          Salam o Alaikum: I think you need to study this hadees once again. where does it say that milk should be administered by taking it out and then given to him to drink off???
                          As I said earlier that surprise and reluctance to suckle a grown up man by this woman tells you that it was meant to breastfeed the man.
                          Did you notice that Ibrahim Bahai has changed his interpration so many times in this post. It is probably because he doesn't want to accept the truth that this hadees is wrong.
                          also notice that regulars of this forum are not responding here simply because it is an emberessing hadees in a sahai book.

                          Comment


                            #14

                            Hello

                            Just to clarify a number of issues. The Propet PBUH was NOT a robot as you have implied in an earlier post. The Prophet PBUH only spoke what Allah ordained and ordered concerning the revelation of the Qur'aan!!

                            Do you honestly believe that the Prophet PBUH kept silent for 23 years and only spoke once the revelation came through!!!


                            What do you think the word A'Hadeeth means!

                            Did not the Prophet PBUH play with his children and grandchildren!!

                            How do you categorise comments and actions which were not revelation!! Please specify.

                            The A'Hadeeth in question is very clear in it's authenticity and it's meaning.

                            However, if you want to challenge this A'Hadeeth, then I'm afraid you have come to the wrong place. You need to contact someone like the Grand Mufti of Arabia or Baghdad or the Al Azhar Academy!!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by sholay:

                              Hello

                              Just to clarify a number of issues. The Propet PBUH was NOT a robot as you have implied in an earlier post. The Prophet PBUH only spoke what Allah ordained and ordered concerning the revelation of the Qur'aan!!

                              Do you honestly believe that the Prophet PBUH kept silent for 23 years and only spoke once the revelation came through!!!


                              What do you think the word A'Hadeeth means!

                              Did not the Prophet PBUH play with his children and grandchildren!!

                              How do you categorise comments and actions which were not revelation!! Please specify.

                              The A'Hadeeth in question is very clear in it's authenticity and it's meaning.

                              However, if you want to challenge this A'Hadeeth, then I'm afraid you have come to the wrong place. You need to contact someone like the Grand Mufti of Arabia or Baghdad or the Al Azhar Academy!!

                              Quote******........"Do you honestly believe that the Prophet PBUH kept silent for 23 years and only spoke once the revelation came through!!!

                              Whenever anything happened which involved guidence for muslims, our Nabi(pbuh) said only what our Allah wanted him to say.
                              and it was since he was born, because He pbuh was a born Rasool. And My Rasool pbuh did not make jokes when it came to issue which were for muslims guidence.

                              Quote********.......What do you think the word A'Hadeeth means?

                              When it came to Hadeeth, it was also 100% what Allah wanted our Rasool pbuh to say. My Rasool's pbuh every action was based on Allah's guidence, and thats why we never find any conflicts in MY Rasool's actions and sayings. MY Rasool pbuh did not joke when it came to the guidence of muslim!!!!


                              Quote*****....."The A'Hadeeth in question is very clear in it's authenticity and it's meaning.


                              Absolutely, this Hadeeth in question is very clear in it's meaning, there is no reason to interpret it anyother way. I am only not sure about its authenticity, thats all.

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