Hinduism

[Changez_like]

why do they have to "REMOVE" a thread??? why not simply CLOSE it???

What is the difference here?

Lets get to the point.
Hindus in the other thread "any words about Hinduism???" accepted that it really is not a religion. They are 'religion-less' people.

Why are they so much scared of Islam?

After Hinduism (Vedic, etc.) Buddhism gained popularity, Brahmans tried to 'adapt' the religion/concept of Buddhism and make changes according to their desires. Buddhists opposed their idea of changing Buddhism so they were massacred killed and ousted from 'Bharat'/'Hindustan'. Thats why Buddhism is not so much commonly seen in India today.

Then came Islam, which was of course by 'sword'.... their cruel rajas were defeated and then Hindustan was ruled by Muslims for LOOOOONNNNNGGGG period of time. In this mean time, Hindus tried to make changes to Islam and make it 'adaptable' for Hindus.. the only ruler who got convinced was Akbar (who made a conglomerate of Islam and Hinduism).

When Britishers were about to leave, Muslims had already seen a fall, Hindus were excited to 'revenge', but British divided India to full disappointment of Hindus.

Hindus since then have been trying to overcome this defeat... now emerging 'jihad' everywhere in world is as frightening for them as is for other religions.

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We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

[Ali_R]

Originally posted by Changez_like:
why do they have to "REMOVE" a thread??? why not simply CLOSE it???

I agree on this.

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"kaisay na karta usko main pyar, uski haseen main sukh thay hazaar, bichar gayay hum dukh ki hay baat"

[Changez_like]

So far, no one (Hindu) has been able to tell what religion was there in this Indian sub-continent before 3000BC?

What is the age of universe mentioned in Hinduism (if any)?

gap from 'first man' 'first society' upto 3000BC, what governed the world (from Hinduism perspective) ??

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We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

[Rehaan]

well one of my thread was deleted and it was regarding hinduism but for some reason some people thought it was offensive to "hindu" folks and wasnt really maintaing the standard of this forum.

I contaced GFQ regarding my thread and this is what she had to say!
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Assalaamu alaykum,

I recall the thread you are referring to. It was
removed because the content of the thread did not
comply with the standards expected in this forum.
Although the original post may have been valid, it
seems as though many of the replies were derogatory in
nature, hence lowering the quality of not only that
thread but lowering the tone of the forum as well.

I understand your concern in regards to it being
removed. However, it was deemed necessary by myself.
The removal had nothing to do with 'hindus getting
offended' as you suggest. But it had everything to do
with maintaining the standards of this forum; which
ensure that there is no maligning, defaming of any
religion, religious figure or member.

I hope that addresses your concerns, if not feel free
to contact me.

Fee AmaanAllah
GfQ
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I think GFQ being so well-bred and trying to accentuate the standard of this forum just for those people who are mature enough to understand that they shouldnt be saying crap about other religions since this forum is overtly for dicuss of various religions but in such limits set by GFQ!

She caught me being a little discourteous towards hinduism and in result my post got eradicated.

Again i would say GFQ did the right thing but didn't see the fact what made me say a little about hinduism!

[queer]

>So far, no one (Hindu) has been able to tell what religion was there in this Indian sub-continent before 3000BC?<

Before 3000BC, the aryans were still in the Caucus region. Aryan-hinduism wasnt in the subcontinent yet. The Indus valley folks had their religion which worshipped the mother-godess, and pashupati - a form of Shiva.

>gap from 'first man' 'first society' upto 3000BC, what governed the world (from Hinduism perspective) ??<

I doubt that hinduism claims to be a history course.

[rvikz]

5500–3000 B.C.
Predynastic Egyptian cultures develop (5500–3100 B.C.); begin using agriculture (c. 5000 B.C.). Earliest known civilization arises in Sumer (4500–4000 B.C.). Earliest recorded date in Egyptian calendar (4241 B.C.). First year of Jewish calendar (3760 B.C.). First phonetic writing appears (c. 3500 B.C.). Sumerians develop a city-state civilization (c. 3000 B.C.). Copper used by Egyptians and Sumerians. Western Europe is neolithic, without metals or written records.
3000–2000 B.C.
Pharaonic rule begins in Egypt. King Khufu (Cheops), 4th dynasty (2700–2675 B.C.), completes construction of the Great Pyramid at Giza (c. 2680 B.C.). The Great Sphinx of Giza (c. 2540 B.C.) is built by King Khafre. Earliest Egyptian mummies. Papyrus. Phoenician settlements on coast of what is now Syria and Lebanon. Semitic tribes settle in Assyria. Sargon, first Akkadian king, builds Mesopotamian empire. The Gilgamesh epic (c. 3000 B.C.). Abraham leaves Ur (c. 2000 B.C.). Systematic astronomy in Egypt, Babylon, India, China.
3000–1500 B.C.
The most ancient civilization on the Indian subcontinent, the sophisticated and extensive Indus Valley civilization, flourishes in what is today Pakistan. In Britain, Stonehenge erected according to some unknown astronomical rationale. Its three main phases of construction are thought to span c. 3000–1500 B.C.
2000–1500 B.C. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0772314.html

[Abdali]

Originally posted by queer:

>So far, no one (Hindu) has been able to tell what religion was there in this Indian sub-continent before 3000BC?<

Before 3000BC, the aryans were still in the Caucus region. Aryan-hinduism wasnt in the subcontinent yet. The Indus valley folks had their religion which worshipped the mother-godess, and pashupati - a form of Shiva.

>gap from 'first man' 'first society' upto 3000BC, what governed the world (from Hinduism perspective) ??<

I doubt that hinduism claims to be a history course.

Abey queer aka Zareen tere bhir kisi ney baja dhee.. chal bagh dung

[Changez_like]

Originally posted by rvikz:
5500–3000 B.C.
Predynastic Egyptian cultures develop (5500–3100 B.C.); begin using agriculture (c. 5000 B.C.). Earliest known civilization arises in Sumer (4500–4000 B.C.). Earliest recorded date in Egyptian calendar (4241 B.C.). First year of Jewish calendar (3760 B.C.). First phonetic writing appears (c. 3500 B.C.). Sumerians develop a city-state civilization (c. 3000 B.C.). Copper used by Egyptians and Sumerians. Western Europe is neolithic, without metals or written records.
3000–2000 B.C.
Pharaonic rule begins in Egypt. King Khufu (Cheops), 4th dynasty (2700–2675 B.C.), completes construction of the Great Pyramid at Giza (c. 2680 B.C.). The Great Sphinx of Giza (c. 2540 B.C.) is built by King Khafre. Earliest Egyptian mummies. Papyrus. Phoenician settlements on coast of what is now Syria and Lebanon. Semitic tribes settle in Assyria. Sargon, first Akkadian king, builds Mesopotamian empire. The Gilgamesh epic (c. 3000 B.C.). Abraham leaves Ur (c. 2000 B.C.). Systematic astronomy in Egypt, Babylon, India, China.
3000–1500 B.C.
The most ancient civilization on the Indian subcontinent, the sophisticated and extensive Indus Valley civilization, flourishes in what is today Pakistan. In Britain, Stonehenge erected according to some unknown astronomical rationale. Its three main phases of construction are thought to span c. 3000–1500 B.C.
2000–1500 B.C. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0772314.html

Thank you for enlightening with extra knowledge, but in all these lines, only a very few are related to Indian-subcontinent.

Does the 'Hinduism' tell what was there before it started to develop in Indian-subcontinent? and
HOW it started to develop?
WHY it started to develop?

and
WHO started it?

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We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

[anant]

Hindu texts as far as my understanding goes, do not stricly have a concept of linear time..time is cyclyc. There are no specific dates in hindu scriptures..thats why its very hard to date them. There are ambiguos dates which say that Lord krishna was born around 5000BC and rama 10000BC..and each incarnation 5000 years before. Most propably these dates have been coined recently by our "friedns" like the RSS etc. I doubt that these dates were in any scriptures.

What was before hinduism? Again texts are not concerned with time factor all they say is that hinsuism is eternal..it always was and always will be, in what ever form.

Im sure you do some research into pre-indus valley beliefs in the sub-continent, they will propably be the usual tribal type religions.

[rvikz]

. What were the religious practices of India's early people?
There are many scattered cave paintings of people and animals and a few stone objects but little evidence that these were objects of worship. Elaborate burial sites in many parts of India, some with large stone megaliths suggest that the rites of the dead were very different to those practised today. Ancestor worship as in many early cultures was probable.

Anthropological studies among primitive people in many countries show many common trends. Harvest celebrations corresponding to the changing seasons each spring and autumn and worship of male and female fertility stones were probable.

The earliest kings were often those who claimed the magical ability to influence rain, health, good hunting and food while banishing droughts, pestilence's and dangerous animals. In frenzied dance they would claim to be possessed by spirits and acquire the power to influence them. They all laid down elaborate customs, rituals and hymns for their subjects and blamed some lapse on their part as the cause for their occasional failure to produce miracles.

All early religions had rather hazy visions of life after death. Many believed that there were three worlds. The underworld where all people came from and went back later. The terrestrial world where all men and animals lived their mortal lives and the heavenly world that was the exclusive domain of the gods. These became enormously elaborated and complex as myths developed with economic and social progress in every country.

There is no evidence that any of the heroes of legend could have had their legendary horses, palaces, temples, etc at this time. People led hard lives in the pursuit of bare existence and it is unlikely that they had any sages or deep philosophy 5000 years ago.


9. Was magic the foundation of all religions?
The word magic is derived from the word Magi who were the priests of ancient Persia. All religions seem to have begun as magic rites that promised miraculous spiritual intervention into the affairs of men.

Primitive people living hard lives in dangerous and unpredictable environments longed for miracles that could give good weather, hunting, crops, and remove heat, cold, sickness, pests, predators, enemies and evil spirits. They wanted miracles that could bless them and curse their enemies. Shamans and witch doctors, who claimed abilities to provide such magical remedies, were the first priests

[Changez_like]

Mr Rvikz, thanks for enlightenment again.
would you be answering my other questions in this thread?

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We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

[Changez_like]

where does the discussion of "majic" come from while discussing 'evolution' of Hinduism? are you saying that majic is a part of Hinduism?

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We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

[Changez_like]

I see that after LIGHTING the fire of "SECTS" Hindus have given up the discussion about their own beleifs, perhaps they felt that they are about to loose so they started the fire of sectarianism.... as usual

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We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

[skv anand]

Dear Changez,

You are very curious. Hindu is less a religion and more a society. You must learn to find a difference between the two.
You are curious about Sect form of Hinduism. Nothing like that is there. RSS you can count as a sect, Bajarang Dal also, they have a teacher and have do and dying tendency.

Hindu is not a rigid society and has successfully gotten rid of many past evils. Though the most core problem, that is cast system, is still for long going to exist, and may be will never end.

If you have some time find out some readings on Vedas. It is nothing but evolution of society, from tribal to city standard.
They worshiped god for good cattles, food was a problem, then came the harvest period and they started praying for rain and clouds, sun etc.
All human mind fantasy created different gods. Then rivalry among tribes started and they prayed for healthy sons.

Pls don’t expect a short cut answer. When and how it started, you will have to go deep and study like scholar because behind every phenomenon there you will find some reason.

Still many Hindus believe in magic and perform different rituals for appeasing demons or gods. Sati custom has been a hearty item for you against Hindus. This has been abolished successfully, though every ten years somewhere it takes place.
What, you want to wage a war against Hinduism for all this?

Rgds

[Changez_like]

Originally posted by skv anand:
Dear Changez,
.....
Hindu is not a rigid society and has successfully gotten rid of many past evils. Though the most core problem, that is cast system, is still for long going to exist, and may be will never end.
.....

If Hinduism is 'what society dictates' then why do Hindus have problems with other religions? why do they not 'merge' or 'accept' the concepts in Islam/Christianity?
I've seen lots of Hindus in US, some 'merge' with society 'socially' but there beleifs may not change, while some Hindus tend to remain 'intact' (as they were in India)... it means that Hinduism is not only 'what society wants'... there is some dictating ideology, some beleif that "all Hindus have to adhere to".

If you have some time find out some readings on Vedas. It is nothing but evolution of society, from tribal to city standard.
They worshiped god for good cattles, food was a problem, then came the harvest period and they started praying for rain and clouds, sun etc.
All human mind fantasy created different gods. Then rivalry among tribes started and they prayed for healthy sons.

I don't have access to Hindu literature, can you provide me a website where I can learn about it?

Pls don’t expect a short cut answer. When and how it started, you will have to go deep and study like scholar because behind every phenomenon there you will find some reason.

Still many Hindus believe in magic and perform different rituals for appeasing demons or gods. Sati custom has been a hearty item for you against Hindus. This has been abolished successfully, though every ten years somewhere it takes place.
What, you want to wage a war against Hinduism for all this?
Rgds

I don't want to wage war based only on 'sati', thats one evil that you have to take care of.

By our religion, all humanity was always given teaching of 'One God'. and for few decades/centuries they remained on the path, after that their knot with the religion got loosened gradually and they started to develop different versions ... it could be due to 'different interpretations' as well.

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We oughta be Changez like, don't we?