Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Children's Rights

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Children's Rights

    I have a simple question:
    Do we as parents have a right to impose our religious beliefs on our children?

    My point of view:

    1. Children are "Allah's Amaanat" Our obligation is to raise them and educate them so that they can grow up to be independent thinking individuals with a mind of their own, so that they can decide for themselves what and who they want to be.

    2. With the above premise, I think we should not impose our own religious ideas and beliefs on kids. We should educate them with as much factual knowledge as possible but keep our personal preference in check and control.

    3. Instill in them the idea that they should form their own opinions on the basis the information and knowledge they have aquired. Keep revising their views as they gather more information.

    I will be delighted if my kids chose a religion different than mine, or no religion at all. I would love them no matter what religion they follow.

    I will be delighted to have a discussion with my children as to how each of us came to that conclusion, without insisting that any one persons's religion is superior.

    How do you guys feel?


    #2
    This is not an Islamic concept. According to Islam, Allah creates every human being as Muslim and its upto parents how they raise them. If parents are christians, kids will have natural tendency to follow their parents towards Christianity, similar applies to other religions.

    Think for a while. If you know walking on burning coal/wood is dangerous, you as loving parent would let your kid walk on this burning coal/wood???
    This same logic applies to Muslims. According to Muslims beleif, Islam is right way, then Muslims will protect their kids the way they think. Of course when they grow up they DO what they want.

    You can see in this world, a very religious father with son who never prays, I have seen tons of examples in my life.

    So as a kid, you can teach them your religion, guide them about your religion, urge them to practice it. When they grow up, they'll have choice anyway.

    ------------------
    We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

    Comment


      #3

      For me, Islam is the ONLY religion. This has been confirmed in the Qur'aan.

      003.019 The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will)

      005.004 This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.

      It is my responsibility to rear the children as Muslims. If they decide to change faith once they have reached an appropriate age etc, then so be it. I have completed my duty, and then it is each soul for itself.

      Whilst the children are in my custody, then YES, I will bring them up as Muslims, whether they like it or not. After they reach puberty, then the gift of Choice kicks in and like I have said before, they can choose their own way. I do not apologise for my views.

      I hope that I don't sound like a dictator, but I am just being honest and straight to the point.

      Comment


        #4
        Tanhaa,

        Islam is an ideology not a religion.

        If you claim that your children can follow any religion they want then do you see this issue which can lead to eternal hell or eternal heaven as a joke?

        You're talking about it in a very capitalist way i.e. you can follow any religion you want as long as you don't interfere in ruling.

        The Muslim Ummah is the best nation ever raised up unto mankind because we enjoin the good and forbid the evil and we believe in Allah(swt)


        Comment


          #5
          >>>>This is not an Islamic concept. According to Islam, Allah creates every human being as Muslim and <<<

          Actually thats not entirely correct. This statement is made by many, on the basis of the hadith that everyone is born in a state of 'fitrah'. Fitrah doesn't mean 'muslim' loosely translated it may mean purity, but a more accurate definition is 'natural state'. Therefore everyone is born in a natural state.

          However a person may be born into a muslim family and therefore raised as a muslim. And that of course is the duty of their parents, to educate and train them. But one has to make a conscious decision or commitment to Islam...one cannot blindly follow, one has to know what one is doing and why.


          Comment


            #6
            Thanks you guys for your opinions. The conclusion I draw from your replies:

            1. Islam is an ideology, something more than a religion.

            2. All muslims believe that Islam is good for everyone in the world.

            3. So it is Ok to force your own Islamic views on your children, relatives, friends and every one you possibly can. Even if it causes pain and suffering to the other person.

            4. There seems to be no understanding or respect for the rights of others, young or old, muslim or non muslim to practice their own vision of Islam or any religious beliefs.

            5. From the above I can also conclude that in the name of Islam, its Ok to conduct the following which all result in pain and suffering:

            Circumcision, male and female, forceful conversions to Islam, Jihad, blowing up other religious symbols, sectarian violence, state sponsered discrimination, and almost all the activities of the Taleban.

            6. A good muslim cannot just follow Islam in his Personal Life, an dlet others follow theirs. A good muslim must make sure that everone else he comes in contact does what he does, exactly.

            I hope my conclusions ar wrong. Because I know Islam believes in equality, love and peace.



            [This message has been edited by Tanhaa (edited August 02, 2001).]

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Tanhaa:
              Thanks you guys for your opinions. The conclusion I draw from your replies:

              1. Islam is an ideology, something more than a religion.

              2. All muslims believe that Islam is good for everyone in the world.

              3. So it is Ok to force your own Islamic views on your children, relatives, friends and every one you possibly can. Even if it causes pain and suffering to the other person.

              4. There seems to be no understanding or respect for the rights of others, young or old, muslim or non muslim to practice their own vision of Islam or any religious beliefs.

              5. From the above I can also conclude that in the name of Islam, its Ok to conduct the following which all result in pain and suffering:

              Circumcision, male and female, forceful conversions to Islam, Jihad, blowing up other religious symbols, sectarian violence, state sponsered discrimination, and almost all the activities of the Taleban.

              6. A good muslim cannot just follow Islam in his Personal Life, an dlet others follow theirs. A good muslim must make sure that everone else he comes in contact does what he does, exactly.

              I hope my conclusions ar wrong. Because I know Islam believes in equality, love and peace.

              [This message has been edited by Tanhaa (edited August 02, 2001).]
              This is all your crappy mind could think? Think hard, you got lots of junk buddy, you can spill it anywhere you want. I don't see here any message (esp. on this thread) to support your so called 'conclusions'.

              +++++++
              3. So it is Ok to force your own Islamic views on your children, relatives, friends and every one you possibly can. Even if it causes pain and suffering to the other person.
              +++++++
              Where did you get this that you can FORCE your own views on relatives, friends and every one you possible can??? esp "even if it causes pain" ???? remove biased glasses boy.


              ++++++++++++
              4. There seems to be no understanding or respect for the rights of others, young or old, muslim or non muslim to practice their own vision of Islam or any religious beliefs.
              +++++++++++
              Yeah, darn right, thats why there are so many Christians and Hindus living in Pakistan, Afgha, Saudi, Indonesia, Malaysia etc.. etc etc.... ????

              AND no. 5 & 6 as well??? oh boy, let me bring out my sword and put on your neck... how many times in your life you have seen that?

              [This message has been edited by Changez_like (edited August 02, 2001).]

              Comment


                #8
                Changes_like bhai, I will try to elaborate How I reached my conclusions:

                1. Islam is an ideology, something more than a religion.

                If Islam is an ideology, then in an Islamic state like Pakistan , people of other idologies will be treated differently by the government aparatus. example Ahmedyas?

                2. All muslims believe that Islam is good for everyone in the world.

                We agree on this one.

                3. So it is Ok to force your own Islamic views on your children, relatives, friends and every one you possibly can. Even if it causes pain and suffering to the other person.

                4. There seems to be no understanding or respect for the rights of others, young or old, muslim or non muslim to practice their own vision of Islam or any religious beliefs.


                The above statement is supported by the following activites:

                Circumcision, male and female, forceful conversions to Islam, Jihad, blowing up other religious symbols, sectarian violence, state sponsered discrimination, and almost all the activities of the Taleban"

                Al the above activities are supported by the Taliban movement, which forces its ideology(true Islamic) on the people of Afganistan, whether they are muslims, hindus buddhists, which includes friends , familiies, women children, neighbours etc. And of course Pakistan and Saudi Arabia as Islamic states support their activities.

                Does the Taleban movement respect other peoples rights ??

                6. A good muslim cannot just follow Islam in his Personal Life, an dlet others follow theirs. A good muslim must make sure that everone else he comes in contact does what he does, exactly.

                Im sorry I did get carried away and exaggerated a bit. Please accept my apologies.

                But I was thinking of the people in the Taleban movement, who must be feeling that they are doing everything because they are good muslims, and Allah wants them to do that.

                Please try to understand that Im not blaming Islam, which I know preaches equality, love and peace. My problem is with some of the people who do crazy things in the name of Islam, and I am also disappointed with muslims who dont speak out against such activities.




                [This message has been edited by Tanhaa (edited August 02, 2001).]

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Tanhaa:
                  Changes_like bhai, I will try to elaborate How I reached my conclusions:

                  1. Islam is an ideology, something more than a religion.


                  If Islam is an ideology, then in an Islamic state like Pakistan , people of other idologies will be treated differently by the government aparatus. example Ahmedyas?
                  [/b]
                  Correction, Pakistan is Islamic only by its population, not by government. Majority of inhabitants of Pakistan is Muslim, but that does not mean that "Pakistan is an Islamic Country". Islamic country would be where its laws are not against sharia/Islamic teachings.


                  2. All muslims believe that Islam is good for everyone in the world.

                  We agree on this one.



                  3. So it is Ok to force your own Islamic views on your children, relatives, friends and every one you possibly can. Even if it causes pain and suffering to the other person.

                  <blank> ?? no source for this conclusion?


                  4. There seems to be no understanding or respect for the rights of others, young or old, muslim or non muslim to practice their own vision of Islam or any religious beliefs.

                  The above statement is supported by the following activites:

                  Circumcision, male and female, forceful conversions to Islam, Jihad, blowing up other religious symbols, sectarian violence, state sponsered discrimination, and almost all the activities of the Taleban"


                  Let aside circumcision, I talked to you about this in 'corner'.
                  "Forceful conversions?" Did any Muslim yet came to you with SWORD or GUN to convert you? Its not even proved in history how can you claim it in present?
                  "JIHAD" you are beleiving more in media than you should.
                  "Fight" is not the only "jihad".
                  "Jihad" has been done to spread message of Islam, defend ISLAM against oppression by arms, words, literature etc.
                  "Sectarian violence" / "state spnosored discrimination" are self-explanatory... means people exploited Islam to gain some personal benefits.
                  "almost all activities of Taleban"... can you please name one by one, I'll try to tell you the truth (not from media's propaganda).


                  Al the above activities are supported by the Taliban movement, which forces its ideology(true Islamic) on the people of Afganistan, whether they are muslims, hindus buddhists, which includes friends , familiies, women children, neighbours etc. And of course Pakistan and Saudi Arabia as Islamic states support their activities.


                  Name any activity where they forced "its ideology" on Hindus, Buddhists, neighbors??? please elaborate which one are you talking about with some references.


                  Does the Taleban movement respect other peoples rights ??

                  yes, but what is your "reference"/"comparison" level for these rights? the ones that "Human Rights" is defining nowadays?

                  you missed 5th note

                  6. A good muslim cannot just follow Islam in his Personal Life, and let others follow theirs. A good muslim must make sure that everone else he comes in contact does what he does, exactly.

                  Im sorry I did get carried away and exaggerated a bit. Please accept my apologies.

                  But I was thinking of the people in the Taleban movement, who must be feeling that they are doing everything because they are good muslims, and Allah wants them to do that.

                  Please try to understand that Im not blaming Islam, which I know preaches equality, love and peace. My problem is with some of the people who do crazy things in the name of Islam, and I am also disappointed with muslims who dont speak out against such activities.

                  [This message has been edited by Tanhaa (edited August 02, 2001).]
                  There is something called "no compulsion in Islam"... in Quran >> " la ikraha fid-deen ". << Now you can judge if someone is imposing Islam on you he is going against, right?

                  ------------------
                  We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

                  [This message has been edited by Changez_like (edited August 02, 2001).]

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Tanhaa:
                    Thanks you guys for your opinions. The conclusion I draw from your replies:

                    1. Islam is an ideology, something more than a religion.

                    2. All muslims believe that Islam is good for everyone in the world.

                    3. So it is Ok to force your own Islamic views on your children, relatives, friends and every one you possibly can. Even if it causes pain and suffering to the other person.

                    4. There seems to be no understanding or respect for the rights of others, young or old, muslim or non muslim to practice their own vision of Islam or any religious beliefs.

                    5. From the above I can also conclude that in the name of Islam, its Ok to conduct the following which all result in pain and suffering:

                    Circumcision, male and female, forceful conversions to Islam, Jihad, blowing up other religious symbols, sectarian violence, state sponsered discrimination, and almost all the activities of the Taleban.

                    6. A good muslim cannot just follow Islam in his Personal Life, an dlet others follow theirs. A good muslim must make sure that everone else he comes in contact does what he does, exactly.

                    I hope my conclusions ar wrong. Because I know Islam believes in equality, love and peace.



                    [This message has been edited by Tanhaa (edited August 02, 2001).]
                    Tanhaa, you really didn't have to hide behind the topic ...."Children's Rights", to say what was already on your mind. Be brave, friend.

                    I'm cold seed, I'm your sweetest leaf
                    I'll ease your mind, I'll set you free

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Scratch Bhai, its was nota question of hiding. Children are nearest and dearest to us. So if we impose our view on thme , then we must be reaally feeling very strongly about the view. then by analysis, it would be easier to impose our views on those who are a bit more distant.

                      And Changez_like Bhai, no one has threated me , I agree. But since Islam has not changed over the years, and who doubts the spread of Islam by the sword in our history.

                      And force may not be the only means of coercion. When poor non muslims hve to pay Jazia tax , conversion to Islam fora poor man is the only way out. That is what happened in the poor state of Bengal during Aurangzebs time.

                      Well enough said. I just hope tht people start practicing real and true Islam.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Tanhaa,

                        3. So it is Ok to force your own Islamic views on your children, relatives, friends and every one you possibly can. Even if it causes pain and suffering to the other person.

                        It's disgusting the way people play with words. When a person is told about Islam it becomes forcing, causing pain, suffering and if someone is talked to about kufr then it becomes enlightening them. Pathetic.

                        4. There seems to be no understanding or respect for the rights of others, young or old, muslim or non muslim to practice their own vision of Islam or any religious beliefs.

                        Disgusting argument. This argument stems from the 'freedom of the individual' a concept which is from capitalism not Islam. Again capitalism views religion as something that shouldn't interfere with ruling and so they say follow any religion you want. What they're actually saying is follow any one you want because they're all false.

                        5. From the above I can also conclude that in the name of Islam, its Ok to conduct the following which all result in pain and suffering:

                        Hypocrisy:

                        Circumcision, male and female,

                        UN sponsored mass sterilisation.

                        forceful conversions to Islam,

                        Torture of Muslims calling for Islam.

                        Jihad,

                        Killing Muslims in Chechnya, sanctions causing many deaths in Iraq, Afghanistan.

                        blowing up other religious symbols,

                        Destroying our mosques in India

                        sectarian violence,

                        Timothy McVeigh,

                        state sponsered discrimination,

                        Hijab banned in France, Turkey , Germany.

                        and almost all the activities of the Taleban.

                        All activities of the western states. Taleban have not implemented Islam completely yet.

                        If Islam is an ideology, then in an Islamic state like Pakistan , people of other idologies will be treated differently by the government aparatus. example Ahmedyas?

                        Pakistan isn't an Islamic state neither is Saudi. The last time I checked ahmadiyya isn't an ideology.

                        The ideology that is being practised today is Capitalism. Communism is dead.

                        An ideology provides a specific viewpoint in life. In Capitalism everything is judged according to benefit and loss. In Islam everything is judged according to Halal and Haram.

                        Children are nearest and dearest to us. So if we impose our view on thme , then we must be reaally feeling very strongly about the view. then by analysis, it would be easier to impose our views on those who are a bit more distant.

                        If your child wanted to throw stones at the Israelis with children his age. Would you stop him/her? If you did then aren't you imposing your view on him/her?

                        If your child did something you consider bad and told him/her not to do it then aren't you imposing your view on him/her?

                        who doubts the spread of Islam by the sword in our history.

                        If Islam was spread by the sword then there would be no christians living in the middle east. There would be no Churches or synagogues in the middle east. The Islamic state is the only state in history that when a new land joined with the state the people of the new land became the leaders.

                        When poor non muslims hve to pay Jazia tax , conversion to Islam fora poor man is the only way out.

                        Do you know how much the jizya was? About 100 hundred pounds a year according to todays standards. Do you also know that poor non Muslim were provided free housing, food, clothing like every other citizen of the Islamic state?

                        Lets work to reestablish the Islamic state because it is a fardh and stop these kind of lies being spread about Islam.

                        The liars are becoming more and more arrogant with their lies because they know that the Muslims have no state to protect them.


                        Comment


                          #13

                          Tanhaa

                          Just out of curiousity, what Faith are you.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Tanhaa:
                            Scratch Bhai, its was nota question of hiding. Children are nearest and dearest to us. So if we impose our view on thme , then we must be reaally feeling very strongly about the view. then by analysis, it would be easier to impose our views on those who are a bit more distant.

                            And Changez_like Bhai, no one has threated me , I agree. But since Islam has not changed over the years, and who doubts the spread of Islam by the sword in our history.

                            And force may not be the only means of coercion. When poor non muslims hve to pay Jazia tax , conversion to Islam fora poor man is the only way out. That is what happened in the poor state of Bengal during Aurangzebs time.

                            Well enough said. I just hope tht people start practicing real and true Islam.
                            Jazia tax is not taking all their income, its only part of the income like US govt takes 30% or UK takes 40% and these numbers are not fixed they go up and down for 'salary tax bracket'.
                            Purpose of Jazia tax is to get money to use for their own protection. Whenever 'Muslim' government failed to save minorities who pay jazia tax, 'Muslim' government returned the money.
                            "POOR" does not have to pay tax, only the income generating people pay jazia. If you are thinking of their poverty nowadays, then its no comparison.

                            ------------------
                            We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X