Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Question??? Naats and saint worship

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Question??? Naats and saint worship

    Will someone knowledgable answer the following question?

    1. Did Islam , before it arrived in India, allow the singing of Naats and Qawalis in praise and honor of Hazrat Mohammad and other holy men?

    2. Similarly is it Ok in Islam to bow and pray to, and worship saints like Chisti at his Mazaar in Ajmer Shareef.

    I read some where long time ago that these are Hindu influences on Islam.

    #2
    You should thank the creators of Brailviyaat and Naqsabandi sects.

    ------------------
    "I am not playing with a full deck!"

    Comment


      #3
      Dear Bro nice post...

      One....We Sunnis don't sing Naaht, we read it.

      Two....There is no conflict on Naaht among Sunnis and it wasn't started in India it comes right from Prophet's(peace be upon him and his family)...Hadrat Hassasn Bin Saabat(Radi Allah an hu) a famous Naaht reader.

      Three....Qawalli is a burning question among Sunnis. Mostly just Chistis support it Naqashbanids consider it Haram, others oppose it in its today's condition.

      Four...Sajada to live or dead is Haraam and whoever does it it is their personal act...nothing to do with Sunni beliefs.
      and in Ajmer Shareef, you should be care ful in judging caz you will find more Hindus there than Muslims and they do all types of this bow or Sajada thing.

      Comment


        #4
        Wah bhai, the correct word is Sajda.

        I know that Hindus do a lot of Sajda. Their Philosopy is that any great person with a great message is worth praising and emulating. Bhajans, Naats and Qawalis are so inspiring.

        However I have seem many muslims in Ajmer and at other Dargas too. Some Historical ancedotes,

        1. When Akabar did not have a son, people suggested that he should go to this Darga and pray and make a wish. So he walked to this cute little Mazaar on the roadside. (I forget the name, please some one remind me) that lies between Delhi and Agra. He went and placed a holy cloth on the mazaar. When he returned to Delhi, there was the news that the Queen was with child. So he gave a lot of land around to that Darga, and made it beautiful as it is today. In fact even today it is run by the decendents of the original management.

        2. Even Mirza Ghalib went to place a Doshala on the Darga when he wanted a son.

        So Religion is what people want to believe.

        Well what is the Consensus here ??? Does Islam allow Naats, Qawalis and Sajda at mazaars and Dargas?

        [This message has been edited by Tanhaa (edited July 25, 2001).]

        Comment


          #5
          Chisti, Ajmeri, Arabi, Rumi the list goes on and on they where all Sufis. The followers of Sufis have shaikhs, and all of the above where shaikhs. Sufis pay respect to them and in doing that some times crosses the line. Sufism is a very complex entity and I would not try to explain it right now. Just remember one thing if you are a decent Muslim and donít know any thing about the other deviation to Islam then stick to the basics. Follow the five pillars of Islam and remember the kalima. Stay away from any kind of bidet. Qwaalis are one of the things Sufis use to meditate. Naats is just a way to pay respect to Mohammed PBUH, and people also take it too far. As I said stick to the basics and keep away from the rest. Allah will ask you about your deeds.

          Comment


            #6
            Good one TAZZ

            Bro Tanhaa....Thanks for spelling Sajda right
            although a bit hopeless for me...I had spelled it three four times before I posted it
            You know in this forum we have to mix up Urdu Punjabi and Arabic languages with English so often that
            sometimes we make horriable mistakes even with English.
            Originally posted by TAZZ:
            Chisti, Ajmeri, Arabi, Rumi the list goes on and on they where all Sufis. The followers of Sufis have shaikhs, and all of the above where shaikhs. Sufis pay respect to them and in doing that some times crosses the line. Sufism is a very complex entity and I would not try to explain it right now. Just remember one thing if you are a decent Muslim and donít know any thing about the other deviation to Islam then stick to the basics. Follow the five pillars of Islam and remember the kalima. Stay away from any kind of bidet. Qwaalis are one of the things Sufis use to meditate. Naats is just a way to pay respect to Mohammed PBUH, and people also take it too far. As I said stick to the basics and keep away from the rest. Allah will ask you about your deeds.

            Comment


              #7
              Ok Dosto, this is my conclusion from the posts.

              According to the 5 basic principles of Islam:

              1. Sajda at Dargas and Mazaars is not allowed.

              2. Naats are allowed as long as the subject is Hazrat Mohammad. If its about any one else, its a No No.

              3. Qawalis are not allowed.

              Now I have some questions:

              1. Are Sufis muslims? (Good Muslims?)

              2. Did the Sufis originate only in India? (India and Pakistan combined)

              3. Can I conclude that Sufis are the result of Hindu influence on muslims.

              4. What has Allah miya against Qawalis. Its just a style of music.

              5. Suppose I sing this Qawali to my wife or girlfriend "Bohut shukria, bari mehrabani, meri zindigi main, Huzoor aap aa-ay" Am I being a bad muslim??


              [This message has been edited by Tanhaa (edited July 25, 2001).]

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Tanhaa:
                Ok Dosto, this is my conclusion from the posts.

                According to the 5 basic principles of Islam:

                1. Sajda at Dargas and Mazaars is not allowed.

                2. Naats are allowed as long as the subject is Hazrat Mohammad. If its about any one else, its a No No.

                3. Qawalis are not allowed.

                Now I have some questions:

                1. Are Sufis muslims? (Good Muslims?)

                2. Did the Sufis originate only in India? (India and Pakistan combined)

                3. Can I conclude that Sufis are the result of Hindu influence on muslims.

                4. What has Allah miya against Qawalis. Its just a style of music.

                5. Suppose I sing this Qawali to my wife or girlfriend "Bohut shukria, bari mehrabani, meri zindigi main, Huzoor aap aa-ay" Am I being a bad muslim??


                [This message has been edited by Tanhaa (edited July 25, 2001).]

                1. Allah is the judge of every bodyís faith. People have argued about of sufism and Islam for ages and no one has the correct answer. Thatís the reason I said stick to the basics of Islam. Sufism goes in to the super natural and the unseen of this universe and people can get perplexed very easily. Thatís why itís not for every one and people need a good and knowledgeable shaikh before they go that route.

                2. Sufism did not originate in India it originated in the Middle East. In the 8th century Muslims became very materialistic (due to the wealth) so some religious people decided to bring Muslims back to Allah buy the way of meditation. Some of them got too far and got off the track. Today there are 100s of sufi sects. Bottom line is when you deal in the unseen you perception of life changes.

                3. Sufis are NOT the result of Hindu influence on Muslims.

                4. Music is not allowed in Islam and thatís why Qwwalis are not allowed.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks Tazz Bhai. you have perked my interest in sufi-ism. I will try and read some more.

                  If music is not permitted , then what about Mehdi Hassan, Begum Akhtar, Noor jehan, Munni Begum, Talat Aziz, Talat Mohammad, Mohd Rafi, all my heros and idols. I dont even want to think about it.

                  [This message has been edited by Tanhaa (edited July 25, 2001).]

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Tanhaa:
                    Thanks Tazz Bhai. you have perked my interest in sufi-ism. I will try and read some more.

                    If music is not permitted , then what about Mehdi Hassan, Begum Akhtar, Noor jehan, Munni Begum, Talat Aziz, Talat Mohammad, Mohd Rafi, all my heros and idols. I dont even want to think about it.


                    Bro Tanhaa.....Allah will judge everybody.
                    All these people you mentioned above are Muslims but do a Haram Act like many Muslims who know leaveing a prayer is Haram but they still do it.

                    One of my own experiences......

                    There was a time few years back when I was very proud Muslim caz I used to read
                    5 times a day
                    fast in Ramadhan
                    never earned Haram Money
                    Had a clean heart about others
                    no music, no films
                    away from most Kabira Sins

                    but all this made me proud.....I started considering others unequal to me caz they would miss their prayers
                    wouldn't fast, listen music etc etc

                    but Thanks to Allah...something strange happened(can't explain) and I turned into a humble Muslim.

                    I found out that as long as you arn't good, respectful, loving towards other humans you arn't going to get any where.

                    [This message has been edited by Tanhaa (edited July 25, 2001).]

                    Comment


                      #11
                      1. Allah is the judge of every bodyís faith. People have argued about of sufism and Islam for ages and no one has the correct answer. Thatís the reason I said stick to the basics of Islam. Sufism goes in to the super natural and the unseen of this universe and people can get perplexed very easily. Thatís why itís not for every one and people need a good and knowledgeable shaikh before they go that route.

                      2. Sufism did not originate in India it originated in the Middle East. In the 8th century Muslims became very materialistic (due to the wealth) so some religious people decided to bring Muslims back to Allah buy the way of meditation. Some of them got too far and got off the track. Today there are 100s of sufi sects. Bottom line is when you deal in the unseen you perception of life changes.

                      3. Sufis are NOT the result of Hindu influence on Muslims.

                      4. Music is not allowed in Islam and thatís why Qwwalis are not allowed.
                      I agree with Tazz on the first 3 points.
                      Well said.


                      ------------------
                      All is the Beloved and the lover is a veil
                      The Beloved is alive and the lover is dead (RUMI)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I agree with bro Wasir. Sufism, even if they are within Islamic teaching, lead you away from bigger picture of Islam. Mostly, sufism will address personal issues, may help you raise taqwa to some level, but overall you are not an interactive part of society. Sufis tend to be away from society. Sufism does not help you much politically either (as per my knowledge of sufism).

                        Islam is not only confined to 'individualism'. For instance, 'tableeghi' jamaat insists in improving an individual and thinking that as if all individuals become good Muslims whole society will be good. Muslims need to emphasize on 'haqooq-ul-ibaad' as much as 'haqooq-ul-Allah'.

                        Sufism urges you to go deeeeep down the zikr so you loose yourself (will get rid of your 'desires' one by one) and once you loose 'selfishness' your chances of being a better Muslim are much more brighter.

                        Any more thoughts?

                        ------------------
                        We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          "Sufism urges you to go deeeeep down the zikr so you loose yourself (will get rid of your 'desires' one by one) and once you loose 'selfishness' your chances of being a better Muslim are much more brighter."

                          I am not much of a religious scholar, but th above passage sounds like Hindu philosopy of meditation.

                          That is what I had read many years ago in an article on impact of Islam and Hinduism on eaach other in India.

                          For example Sikhism and the group called ARya Samaaj among Hindus are the result of Islamic influence on Hinduism.

                          What do Hindus have to say about this point?



                          [This message has been edited by Tanhaa (edited July 26, 2001).]

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Brothers.....

                            Sufiism isn't a wrong path, it is exact Islam, but its very hard path to follow. You have to conquer a big enemy of yours and that is your ego or Nafs-e-Ammara, when you do that you are successful. Either its Rights of Allah.....or......Rights of People a Sufi don't show any ignorance.

                            You can only attend the University of Tariqah......
                            When you have passed all the Subjects at the School of Shariah....

                            But these days we consider Tariqah(Spirituality) easir than Shariah, totally other way round.


                            Somebody has taken my previous post wrongly....Actually this is the company of Sufis which turned my heart, and I became humble from Proud.

                            Sufism doesn't mean you have to runawy from your worldly duties......

                            It means leave evrything for a while untill your heart is purified.....

                            Then you have to come back among common people and serve them for Allah.
                            Those who know would understand what I mean.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Abdul Basit:
                              You should thank the creators of Brailviyaat and Naqsabandi sects.

                              And what do you mean by this?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X