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    A .......Shia ......... Sunni .......... Debate

    Brothers,
    From previous few weeks I have only seen one thing on this religion forum which is

    Hate.... and...... disrespect
    For each other
    For our elders
    For Sahabas and other great personalities.
    I didn't visit this forum for few days
    because my religion's teaching is
    Love....respect.....co-operstion and unity.

    All Shia and Sunni Bros, as we are discussing Sahabas and get into a debate full of hate and disrespect. We have had enough now why not shall we discuss those Sahabas which are loving ones to both sides
    And its not very hard whatever personality Shia bros choose I would love to discuss as we Sunnis love them all.

    Especially those Sahabas which are not very famous and we discuss them very rare.

    #2
    Wasir Bhai

    Please dont tell me that my post was disrespectful to anyone of the personalities??

    All that I mentioned, were the Shia sources and not once did I slander against anyone.

    The basis of any discussion is reasoning based on the rational and unopinionated mind, not one full of hate and aprehension.

    You will however find it extremely difficult to start such a topic of discussion since the Ithna Ashariya Shia are based upon slander and maliace towards many Sahaba as well as discrediting most sources of knowledge.

    In the end, we can learn to disagree and live together in Musharaf's "Attar-Turk" based secular Pakistan. (Sorry for the political swipe)

    [This message has been edited by Alpha1 (edited July 17, 2001).]

    Comment


      #3
      What brother wasir is saying is good. We should look towards "common" point, which may drive towards unity (or at least not towards slandering each other's sect which no one would appreciate).

      It is not in our favor to discuss what sahabas did, what their personalities were, and what historians thought about them. These are 1400 year old historical events. Over these hundreds of years, both sects have accused each other of misrepresenting ahadith/Islam, what did they achieve? The only things I can think are that they achieved "distance" and "hate".

      Everytime Shia and Sunni argument comes over surface, someone from some side slanders sahabas or other's beleifs. Its better to avoid such arguments. I think all of us here have some knowledge of other's sect and have access to their books (except me who doesn't have access to Shia books yet).

      Lets not make Islam a toy, but instead use it as a tool to improve 'our' lives (not ppl in history). We should work towards common goals not for controversial objectives.

      By discussing fallibility/infallibility of Prophet PBUH or Sahabas or Ahle-bait, we may not achieve HEAVEN, but since boundary is not clear we may fall out of our sacred faith.

      I have appealed before, in several threads that we should not call names for scholars/books. Let Allah be the decider hereafter for controversies among us. We know that Muwaiya and Hadrat Ali (RA) didn't agree for a point and so many Muslims lost lives. Please do not go into this history again and prove your notion. None of us here will accept that he has been on wrong side whatever we claim.

      ------------------
      We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

      Comment


        #4
        Yes, let's hide the truth and treat the victim equal to the oppressor.

        According to your theory, Allah (swt) favors both the murderer and the murdered equally.

        Both Imam Ali (as) and Aisha were on the right path. Both Muwayah and the holy Imam (as) were righteous.

        You would not use such defiled logic in real life - but hey, it was 1400 yrs ago - so why go into details.

        Like Muharraf said in India "I can't live in a make believe world like this".

        ws

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by a1shah:

          You would not use such defiled logic in real life - but hey, it was 1400 yrs ago - so why go into details.
          Ibrahim says: AS

          To whom it may concern.

          1) Al Fat-h: ayat 18...ALLAH's good pleasure on the first believers who swore fealty to the prophet (saw) under the tree ...

          2) ayat 29) Muhammad is the messenger of ALLAH (swt) and those who are with him are strong against unbelievers, but compassionate amongst each other.

          3)At-Tauba: ayat 100.. the vanguard of Islam-the first of those who forsook their home and of those who gave them aid... ayat 115....ALLAH (swt) will not mislead a people after HE had guided them ...ayat 177...ALLAH (swt) turned in favor to the prophet, the Muhajirs and the Ansar...


          concerning the above three ayats.

          One ONLY needs to understand

          1) Who Allah (swt) was pleased with when it is written “ the FIRST Believers”

          2) Those who were with the Prophet (pbuh)

          3) The vanguard of Islam, the first who forsook their homes

          To dispel the erroneous notions of the shia’s concerning the companions of the Prophet ( pbuh)

          WS

          Common sense always speaks too late.

          Comment


            #6
            Ibrahim,

            Your argument is common and flawed from the on-set. Let's look at what the qur'an says and what yr sahabahs did:

            Surah Aal-e-Imran verse 31 “Obey Allah and the Prophet but if they turn back, then verily Allah does not love the disbeliveers”

            Surah Anfal verse 20 “Obey Allah and his Prophet and don’t turn away when you hear him”

            Surah Anfal verse 46 “Obey Allah and his Prophet and do not quarrel”

            Now, let's look at Umar bin Khattab and his degree of obedience:

            This is what we read in Sahih al-Bukhari as narrated by Ibn 'Abbas:

            When the time of the death of the Prophet approached while there were some men in the house, and among them was 'Umar Ibn al-Khattab, the Prophet said: "Come near let me write for you a writing after which you will never go astray." 'Umar said: "The Prophet is seriously ill, and you have the Qur’an, so Allah's Book is sufficient for us." The people in the house differed and disputed. Some of them said, "Come near so that Allah's Apostle may write for you a writing after which you will not go astray," while the others said what 'Umar said. When they made much noise and quarreled greatly in front of the Prophet, he said to them, "Go away and leave me." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was a great disaster that their quarrel and noise prevented Allah's Apostle from writing a statement for them.

            Sahih al Bukhari Arabic-English Volume 9 hadith number 468 and Volume 7 hadith 573

            ws

            [This message has been edited by a1shah (edited July 17, 2001).]

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Ibrahim:
              Ibrahim says: AS

              To whom it may concern.

              2) ayat 29) Muhammad is the messenger of ALLAH (swt) and those who are with him are strong against unbelievers, but compassionate amongst each other.

              Common sense always speaks too late.
              Now, let's look at the full ayat that you have quoted:

              "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are
              strong against the unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each
              other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer),
              seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are
              their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their
              similitude in the Taurat (Torah); And their similitude in the Gospel
              is: Like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it
              then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the
              sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers
              with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe
              and do righteous deeds Forgiveness, and a great Reward. [48:29]"

              These companions (May Allah (SWT) be Pleased With Them), the Shia and the
              Sunnis have NO quarrel about. As such, they will not be discussed here.
              However, note what Allah (swt) in His (swt) infinite wisdom states in the
              last line: "Allah has promised those among them who believe and do
              righteous deeds Forgiveness, and a great Reward."

              Now, note "...those
              among them..." Why didn't Allah (swt) say "Allah has promised ALL OF
              THEM?"

              Because not all of them were righteous!

              ws

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Ibrahim:
                Ibrahim says: AS

                To whom it may concern.

                1) Al Fat-h: ayat 18...ALLAH's good pleasure on the first believers who swore fealty to the prophet (saw) under the tree ...

                2) ayat 29) Muhammad is the messenger of ALLAH (swt) and those who are with him are strong against unbelievers, but compassionate amongst each other.

                3)At-Tauba: ayat 100.. the vanguard of Islam-the first of those who forsook their home and of those who gave them aid... ayat 115....ALLAH (swt) will not mislead a people after HE had guided them ...ayat 177...ALLAH (swt) turned in favor to the prophet, the Muhajirs and the Ansar...


                concerning the above three ayats.

                One ONLY needs to understand

                1) Who Allah (swt) was pleased with when it is written “ the FIRST Believers”

                2) Those who were with the Prophet (pbuh)

                3) The vanguard of Islam, the first who forsook their homes

                To dispel the erroneous notions of the shia’s concerning the companions of the Prophet ( pbuh)

                WS

                Common sense always speaks too late.
                Dear a1shah,,

                you are missing the point

                let me repeat do you disagree with the Qur'an? If you don’t there is nothing to argue about since the above three verses conveys very clearly what Allah (swt) enjoined

                You are again trying to use hadiths where each part apparently has their own versions ..which is being avoided here since they can be NO end to this .

                Wisdom should prevail here, since we both accept the Qur’an as true and authentic
                The Qur’an in nowhere mentions anything about 12 imams or infallibility of anyman

                Whereas it does convey that the First who forsook their homes are the “vanguard of Islam”

                My question to you , who are the people who forsook their homes at the time of The Prophet (pbuh) in the cause of Islam?

                WS

                14:22 And Satan will say when the matter is decided: "It was Allah Who gave you a promise of truth: I too promised but I failed in my promise to you. I had no authority over you except to call you but ye listened to me: then reproach not me but reproach your own souls.


                [This message has been edited by Ibrahim (edited July 18, 2001).]

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by a1shah:


                  Now, note "...those
                  among them..." Why didn't Allah (swt) say "Allah has promised ALL OF
                  THEM?"

                  Because not all of them were righteous!

                  ws
                  Brother! Please dont just jump to conclusions on your own by skipping the earlier verse.

                  Read again this part and ponder as whom Allah (swt)is referring to.

                  As a result, it fills the Unbelievers
                  with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds Forgiveness, and a great Reward. [48:29]"

                  THOSE AMONG THEM is with regards to the unbelivers here who have yet a chance to submit and obtain their due rewards.

                  And not to the chosen companions of Prophet (pbuh)

                  NOW TELL ME WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THE OTHER TWO VERSES CONCERNING THE COMPANIONS?

                  WS


                  Comment


                    #10
                    Absolutely amazing.

                    Ibrahim, if you actually believe that "those amonst them" refers to the unbelievers, then we have nothing further to say. The whole ayat is talking and describing "believers" so your hypothesis that the last statement refers to non-believers does not fit in well with the ayat.

                    I suggest you ask an Arabic scholar what it actually refers to.

                    And as for the qur'an, it is the only source of truth.

                    Since I know you have embarked on a journey to protect all sahabahs, let me ask you this:

                    Does the qur'an say that ALL companions of the prophet (pbuh) were righteous ?

                    ws

                    [This message has been edited by a1shah (edited July 17, 2001).]

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Ibrahim:
                      Brother! Please dont just jump to conclusions on your own by skipping the earlier verse.

                      Read again this part and ponder as whom Allah (swt)is referring to.

                      As a result, it fills the Unbelievers
                      with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds Forgiveness, and a great Reward. [48:29]"

                      THOSE AMONG THEM is with regards to the unbelivers here who have yet a chance to submit and obtain their due rewards.

                      And not to the chosen companions of Prophet (pbuh)

                      NOW TELL ME WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THE OTHER TWO VERSES CONCERNING THE COMPANIONS?

                      WS


                      Ibrahim says: BROTHER!!!

                      Read Again If the ayat was only about believers! why is unbelievers being mentioned just above the preceding verse you are trying to interpret erroneously?

                      second you are again trying to run off in the opposite direction, you did not acknowldge or answer my question.

                      which means you will avoid what you don't like so long as it suits you.

                      That is not very Islamic is it?

                      WS

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Ibrahim,

                        I am not going to waste time arguing with you about the translation of the ayat. You should seek an Arabic scholar who is well versed for that. The qur'an has explicit and implicit meanings. You have to be careful in deriving the correct meaning.

                        And your talk about avoiding, it is you who is avoiding the real issue. Does the qur'an state that all sahabahs were righteous ? Can you prove it ?

                        In addition, I see that you have no comments on Umar's behavior infront of the prophet (pbuh), as stated in your authentic Sahih Bukhari.

                        Typical.

                        ws

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by a1shah:
                          And your talk about avoiding, it is you who is avoiding the real issue. Does the qur'an state that all sahabahs were righteous ? Can you prove it ?
                          Brother a1shah

                          Are you here to discuss or just argue based on your preconceived notions?

                          You made this claim

                          “You would not use such defiled logic in real life - but hey, it was 1400 yrs ago - so why go into details. “

                          So I presented you with indisputable evidence from the Qur’an

                          Which was this

                          1) Al Fat-h: ayat 18...ALLAH's good pleasure on the first believers who swore fealty to the prophet (saw) under the tree ...

                          2) ayat 29) Muhammad is the messenger of ALLAH (swt) and those who are with him are strong against unbelievers, but compassionate amongst each other.

                          3)At-Tauba: ayat 100.. the vanguard of Islam-the first of those who forsook their home and of those who gave them aid... ayat 115....ALLAH (swt) will not mislead a people after HE had guided them ...ayat 177...ALLAH (swt) turned in favor to the prophet, the Muhajirs and the Ansar...

                          I further put it to you that…………

                          “The Qur’an in nowhere mentions anything about 12 imams or infallibility of any man
                          Whereas it does convey that the First who forsook their homes are the “vanguard of Islam”

                          My question to you , who are the people who forsook their homes at the time of The Prophet (pbuh) in the cause of Islam?
                          You did not answer my question but went on to dispute about one of the above verse and also quoted a hadith which had no bearing on this verses.

                          I explained to you that you are wrong about that one verse and asked you
                          “NOW TELL ME WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THE OTHER TWO VERSES CONCERNING THE COMPANIONS?”
                          to which I have no answer from you .

                          So I ask you again WHY HAVE YOU REJECTED THE QUR’AN concerning what it says with regards to the companions of the Prophet (pbuh)


                          WS

                          14:22 And Satan will say when the matter is decided: "It was Allah Who gave you a promise of truth: I too promised but I failed in my promise to you. I had no authority over you except to call you but ye listened to me: then reproach not me but reproach your own souls.


                          Comment


                            #14
                            QURAN ON SAHABA :
                            The Quran which is the ultimate truth described some of those who witnessed the Prophet Muhammed , i.e. "Sahaba" in a very clear way, that leaves no doubt about how they were, and how they behaved. While some (minority) of the "Sahaba" were honored in the Quran for their stand beside the Prophet Muhammed and their supporting of him, the majority were not that fortunate, and they were given the right description by God Almighty in the Quran. In the following part we will see how God, who knows all the secrets and declarations described some of these "Sahaba".
                            GOOD "SAHABAS", the minority:
                            [48:18]
                            "GOD is pleased with the believers who pledged allegiance
                            to you under the tree. He knew what was in their hearts
                            and, consequently, He blessed them with contentment, and
                            rewarded them with an immediate victory. "
                            And in 48:29
                            [48:29]
                            "Muhammad - the messenger of GOD - and those with him are
                            harsh and stern against the disbelievers, but kind and
                            compassionate amongst themselves. You see them bowing and
                            prostrating, as they seek GOD's blessings and approval.
                            Their marks are on their faces, because of prostrating.
                            This is the same example as in the Torah. Their example
                            in the Gospel is like plants that grow taller and
                            stronger, and please the farmers. He thus enrages the
                            disbelievers. GOD promises THOSE AMONG THEM who believe,
                            and lead a righteous life, forgiveness and a great recompense."
                            As we can see, God was pleased with these "Sahabas" for what they did at that time, supporting the Prophet and standing with him against the aggressors. There is no guarantee or promise by God in these verses that these "Sahabas" would not make any mistakes, turn back on their heels or stay on the right path. Notice the expression in 48:29, "THOSE AMONG THEM", which tells you, it is not ALL of them. God in the Quran told us about those who believe, then disbelieve then believe again then disbelieve, see 4:137, which reminds us that once you blessed with becoming a believer, there is not a guarantee that you stay a believer. What happened to some of these "Sahabas" as we know from history confirms such that.
                            NOT SO GOOD "SAHABAS", the majority:
                            [9:101]
                            "Among the Aarabs around you, there are hypocrites. Also,
                            among the city dwellers, there are those who are
                            accustomed to hypocrisy. You do not know them, but we
                            know them. We will double the retribution for them, then
                            they end up committed to a terrible retribution."
                            [9:73]
                            "O you prophet, strive against the disbelievers and the
                            hypocrites, and be stern in dealing with them. Their
                            destiny is Hell; what a miserable abode! "
                            [9:74]
                            "They swear by GOD that they never said it, although they
                            have uttered the word of disbelief; they have disbelieved
                            after becoming submitters. In fact, they gave up what
                            they never had. They have rebelled even though GOD and
                            His messenger have showered them with His grace and
                            provisions. If they repent, it would be best for them.
                            But if they turn away, GOD will commit them to painful
                            retribution in this life and in the Hereafter. They will
                            find no one on earth to be their lord and master."
                            [9:75]
                            "Some of them even pledged: "If GOD showered us with His
                            grace, we would be charitable, and would lead a righteous life."
                            [9:76]
                            "But when He did shower them with His provisions, they
                            became stingy, and turned away in aversion."
                            [9:77]
                            "Consequently, He plagued them with hypocrisy in their
                            hearts, till the day they meet Him. This is because they
                            broke their promises to GOD, and because of their lying."
                            [9:78]
                            "Do they not realize that GOD knows their secrets, and
                            their conspiracies, and that GOD is the Knower of all secrets? "
                            [9:79]
                            "Those who criticize the generous believers for giving too
                            much, and ridicule the poor believers for giving too
                            little, GOD despises them. They have incurred a painful retribution. "
                            [9:80]
                            "Whether you ask forgiveness for them, or do not ask
                            forgiveness for them - even if you ask forgiveness for
                            them seventy times - GOD will not forgive them. This is
                            because they disbelieve in GOD and His messenger. GOD
                            does not guide the wicked people."
                            [9:97]
                            "The Aarabs are the worst in disbelief and hypocrisy, and
                            the most likely to ignore the laws that GOD has revealed
                            to His messenger. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise. "
                            [2:8-15]
                            "Then there are those who say, "We believe in GOD and the
                            Last Day," while they are not believers.
                            In trying to deceive GOD and those who believe, they only
                            deceive themselves without perceiving.
                            In their minds there is a disease. Consequently, GOD
                            augments their disease. They have incurred a painful
                            retribution for their lying.
                            When they are told, "Do not commit evil," they say, "But
                            we are righteous!"
                            In fact, they are evildoers, but they do not perceive.
                            When they are told, "Believe like the people who
                            believed," they say, "Shall we believe like the fools who
                            believed?" In fact, it is they who are fools, but they do
                            not know.
                            When they meet the believers, they say, "We believe," but
                            when alone with their devils, they say, "We are with you;
                            we were only mocking."
                            GOD mocks them, and leads them on in their
                            transgressions, blundering."
                            [63:1]
                            "When the hypocrites come to you they say, "We bear
                            witness that you are the messenger of GOD."* GOD knows
                            that you are His messenger, and GOD bears witness that
                            the hypocrites are liars. "
                            [4:60-63]
                            "Have you noted those who claim that they believe in what
                            was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you,
                            then uphold the unjust laws of their idols? They were
                            commanded to reject such laws. Indeed, it is the devil's
                            wish to lead them far astray.
                            When they are told, "Come to what GOD has revealed, and
                            to the messenger," you see the hypocrites shunning you
                            completely.
                            How will it be when a disaster hits them, as a
                            consequence of their own works? They will come to you
                            then and swear by GOD: "Our intentions were good and
                            righteous!"
                            GOD is fully aware of their innermost intentions. You
                            shall ignore them, enlighten them, and give them good
                            advice that may save their souls. "
                            [4:141]
                            "They watch you and wait; if you attain victory from GOD,
                            they say (to you), "Were we not with you?" But if the
                            disbelievers get a turn, they say (to them), "Did we not
                            side with you, and protect you from the believers?" GOD
                            will judge between you on the Day of Resurrection. GOD
                            will never permit the disbelievers to prevail over the believers. "
                            [4:142]
                            "The hypocrites think that they are deceiving GOD, but He
                            is the One who leads them on. When they get up for the
                            Contact Prayer (Salat), they get up lazily. That is
                            because they only show off in front of the people, and
                            rarely do they think of GOD."
                            [63:4-5]
                            "When you see them, you may be impressed by their looks.
                            And when they speak, you may listen to their eloquence.
                            They are like standing logs. They think that every call
                            is intended against them. These are the real enemies;
                            beware of them. GOD condemns them; they have deviated.
                            When they are told, "Come let the messenger of GOD pray
                            for your forgiveness," they mockingly turn their heads,
                            and you see them repel others and act arrogantly. "
                            [33:18-19]
                            "GOD is fully aware of the hinderers among you, and those
                            who say to their comrades, "Let us all stay behind."
                            Rarely do they mobilize for defense.
                            Also, they are too stingy when dealing with you. If
                            anything threatens the community, you see their eyes
                            rolling with fear, as if death had already come to them.
                            Once the crisis is over, they whip you with sharp
                            tongues. They are too stingy with their wealth. These are
                            not believers, and, consequently, GOD has nullified their
                            works. This is easy for GOD to do."
                            [47:16]
                            "Some of them listen to you, then as soon as they leave
                            they ask those who were enlightened, "What did he just
                            say?" GOD thus seals their hearts and, consequently, they
                            follow only their opinions."
                            [47:29-30]
                            "Did those who harbor doubts in their hearts think that
                            GOD will not bring out their evil thoughts?
                            If we will, we can expose them for you, so that you can
                            recognize them just by looking at them. However, you can
                            recognize them by the way they talk. GOD is fully aware
                            of all your works."
                            [48:11]
                            "The sedentary Aarabs who stay behind will say, "We have
                            been preoccupied with our money and our families, so ask
                            forgiveness for us!" They utter with their tongues what
                            is not in their hearts. Say, "Who can protect you from
                            GOD, if He willed any adversity for you, or if He willed
                            any blessing for you?" GOD is fully Cognizant of
                            everything you do. "
                            It is interesting to know that the Quran has told Muhammed that he (Muhammed ) does not know these hypocrites among his "Sahaba", because they look the same like everyone else. ONLY GOD knew them. See 9:101
                            MORE QURANIC VERSES about what some of the believers do, this includes all the "Sahabas":
                            [9:38-39]
                            "O you who believe, when you are told, "Mobilize in the
                            cause of GOD," why do you become heavily attached to the
                            ground? Have you chosen this worldly life in place of the
                            Hereafter? The materials of this world, compared to the
                            Hereafter, are nil.
                            Unless you mobilize, He will commit you to painful
                            retribution and substitute other people in your place;
                            you can never hurt Him in the least. GOD is Omnipotent."
                            [5:54]
                            "O you who believe, if you revert from your religion, then
                            GOD will substitute in your place people whom He loves
                            and who love Him. They will be kind with the believers,
                            stern with the disbelievers, and will strive in the cause
                            of GOD without fear of any blame. Such is GOD's blessing;
                            He bestows it upon whomever He wills. GOD is Bounteous,
                            Omniscient. "
                            [8:27-28]
                            "O you who believe, do not betray GOD and the messenger,
                            and do not betray those who trust you, now that you know.
                            You should know that your money and your children are a
                            test, and that GOD possesses a great recompense. "
                            [8:25]
                            "Beware of a retribution that may not be limited to the
                            evildoers among you.* You should know that GOD's
                            retribution is severe. "
                            [33:12]
                            "The hypocrites and those with doubts in their hearts
                            said, "What GOD and His messenger promised us was no more
                            than an illusion!"
                            [61:2-3]
                            "O you who believe, why do you say what you do not do?
                            Most abominable in the sight of GOD is that you say what
                            you do not do."
                            [57:16]
                            "Is it not time for those who believed to open up their
                            hearts for GOD's message, and the truth that is revealed
                            herein? They should not be like the followers of previous
                            scriptures whose hearts became hardened with time and,
                            consequently, many of them turned wicked. "
                            [49:17]
                            "They act as if they are doing you a favor by embracing
                            Submission! Say, "You are not doing me any favors by
                            embracing Submission. GOD is the One who is doing you a
                            great favor by guiding you to the faith, if you are sincere."
                            [9:24]
                            "Proclaim: "If your parents, your children, your siblings,
                            your spouses, your family, the money you have earned, a
                            business you worry about, and the homes you cherish are
                            more beloved to you than GOD and His messenger, and the
                            striving in His cause, then just wait until GOD brings
                            His judgment." GOD does not guide the wicked people."
                            [49:14]
                            "The Aarabs said, "We are Mu'mens (believers)." Say, "You
                            have not believed; what you should say is, `We are
                            Muslims (submitters),' until belief is established in
                            your hearts." If you obey GOD and His messenger, He will
                            not put any of your works to waste. GOD is Forgiver, Most
                            Merciful."
                            [9:45]
                            "The only people who wish to be excused are those who do
                            not really believe in GOD and the Last Day. Their hearts
                            are full of doubt, and their doubts cause them to waver."
                            [9:47]
                            "Had they mobilized with you, they would have created
                            confusion, and would have caused disputes and divisions
                            among you. Some of you were apt to listen to them. GOD is
                            fully aware of the transgressors. "
                            [9:81]
                            "The sedentary rejoiced in their staying behind the
                            messenger of GOD, and hated to strive with their money
                            and their lives in the cause of GOD. They said, "Let us
                            not mobilize in this heat!" Say, "The fire of Hell is
                            much hotter," if they could only comprehend. "
                            [47:29-30]
                            "Did those who harbor doubts in their hearts think that
                            GOD will not bring out their evil thoughts?
                            If we will, we can expose them for you, so that you can
                            recognize them just by looking at them. However, you can
                            recognize them by the way they talk. GOD is fully aware
                            of all your works. "
                            [8:6]
                            "They argued with you against the truth, even after
                            everything was explained to them. They acted as if they
                            were being driven to certain death. "
                            [47:38]
                            "You are invited to spend in the cause of GOD, but some of
                            you turn stingy. The stingy are stingy towards their own
                            souls. GOD is Rich, while you are poor. If you turn away,
                            He will substitute other people in your place, and they
                            will not be like you."
                            [9:58]
                            "Some of them criticize your distribution of the
                            charities; if they are given therefrom, they become
                            satisfied, but if they are not given therefrom, they
                            become objectors."
                            [47:16]
                            "Some of them listen to you, then as soon as they leave
                            they ask those who were enlightened, "What did he just
                            say?" GOD thus seals their hearts and, consequently, they
                            follow only their opinions."
                            [9:61]
                            "Some of them hurt the prophet by saying, "He is all
                            ears!" Say, "It is better for you that he listens to you.
                            He believes in GOD, and trusts the believers. He is a
                            mercy for those among you who believe." Those who hurt
                            GOD's messenger have incurred a painful retribution."
                            From the above Quranic verses we can see that the "Sahabas" like all the people of all generations were either good or bad. Some followed the Prophet and the message he brought them, the QURAN, and these were the MINORITY as God tells us in the Quran. see 43:78 The others could not get over their idol-worship and stayed with the hypocrites and these were the majority, as God told us in 43:78.
                            "We have given you the truth, but most of you hate the truth." [43:78]
                            If these were the conditions of the people who lived and witnessed the Prophet Muhammed and learned their Islam (Submission) first hand from him, how can we expect the conditions of those who lived after his death ?!

                            "Some men from my companions will come to my Lake-Fount and they will
                            be driven away from it, and I will say, 'O Lord, my companions!' It
                            will be said, 'You have no knowledge of what they innovated after you
                            left: they turned APOSTATE as renegades (reverted from true Islam)."
                            Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 8.586 Narrated Ibn al-Musaiyab:
                            (also Sahih Muslim, part 10, p64, also P59)
                            "And those who oppress shall see what kind of outcome overturns them." [26:227] Al-Quran

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Dera bro alpha.....I didn't point on you or naybody else it was just a general opinion, personally I like your posts.

                              and Bros a1shah, paglu

                              Please stop this. I wonder if there is any Sahaby which wouldn't be criticised by you??

                              And remember
                              Either its Hadrat Abu-Bakr Siddiq(Radi Allah an hu)....
                              Umar(Radi Allah an hu)
                              Usman(Radi Allah an hu)
                              Ali(Radi Allah an hu)
                              Amir Muawia(Radi Allah an hu)
                              Abu Hurairah(Radi Allah an hu)
                              Imam Hasan and Hussain(Radi Allah an hum)

                              All these were common human beings so what made them such great people

                              We don't love Abu Bakr(Radi Allah an hu)...because he was a good Judge, there were many famous judges in his time...

                              Reason for loving Umar(Radi Allah an hu) is not because he had a name in Arab...there were many more famous than him...

                              We don't respect Usman(Radi Allah an hu) because he was rich, there were many even richer than him....

                              We don't like Ali(Radi Allah an hu) becuse he was a good fighter, there were many great fighters in his time

                              We don't love Amir Muawia(Radi Allah an hu) because he was a wise and educated soldier....

                              So what made them so famous and great, what did they do that %90 of Muslim Ummah still likes them even after 1400 years.
                              These peolpe were nothing but the only thing which made them such great people is their Nisbath(link), their love and their service with Prophet(peace be upon him).

                              And if we love them, actually its love for our nobel Prophet(peace be upon him).

                              If the family of Prophet(peace be upon him) is respectful caz they have Nisbt of blood with Prophet(peace be upon him)
                              then
                              Why not shall we respect Sahabas who have got a Nisbat of love with Prophet Muhammad(Sall Allah ho alaihe Wasallam).

                              Again Shia bros, I would like to hear about any Sahaby which is un disputed between us.

                              Comment

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