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    Halal, meat OR deeds

    I was just reading that halal meat thread and something came in my mind.

    As far as know. Islam is a very flexible religion (not strict at all), provided how you take the religion upon your ownself. I was laughing when I read the guys' comments about "Saying Bismillah before eating makes it halal". No it doesn't.

    But my purpose of opening a new thread is not discussing the already discussed issue. My purpose of opening this thread is to ask or get the opinion of you guys about, "Why do muslims insist on eating halal food only, even though most of their deeds are not halal"? All of us commit, Gheebat (back biting), lies, stealing (even a penny from my father's pocket is stealing), gambling (lottery is form of gambling as well), dont pay zakat, dont perform namaz, hajj etc etc????

    I am not saying that everyone should starting eating non-halal food but I am saying that why eating non-halal food is so wrong that the person who is eating is considered kafir straight away? Why not a person considered kafir when he is playing lottery? or when he is not praying Namaz etc etc? Remember in islam there is only Haram or Halal. Ijtihaad declared a third term called "Makroh" but that is not described in source of religion.


    [This message has been edited by Najim (edited July 16, 2001).]

    #2
    Your points are valid Najim, but the presence of one flaw does not waste our entire efforts, or shouldnt waste our entire efforts. Whatever good we pick from the commandments of Islam can prove to be a stepping stone to other goods.

    One thing is for sure, and you are right about it....muslims today dont know how to weigh their actions. We will fight for hours over whether we should face one degree to the left or right while praying, but we wont pay attention to the fact that the fighting we are engaged in is far worse in Allah's SWT eyes compared to our incorrect angle while praying. Its just a matter of ignorance, lack of knowledge, and misalignment of our priorities. We need to work on them, no doubt.

    Comment


      #3
      I cannot talk about others but my experience is this. I stopped eating Ghatka about 4 years ago and I am still here. It is very easy once you stop it there is a lot out there. Once I started Halal food, I started praying and then cutting corners stopped. What I am trying to say is start with some thing, Inshallah every thing will fall in its place.

      Comment


        #4
        well said, Tazz
        "A woman has got to be able to say, and not feel guilty, 'Who am I, and what do I want out of life?' She mustn't feel selfish and neurotic if she wants goals of her own, outside of husband and children"

        Comment


          #5
          Akif,

          Thanx for your input.

          TAZZ,

          Thats good to now that u are making an effort to be a muslim. But my question is still there & I think very many people are now scared to answer it that - why eating non-halal food makes one so bad (that he is declared as kafir) as compared to committing any other sin e.g gambling.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Najim:
            Akif,

            why eating non-halal food makes one so bad (that he is declared as kafir) as compared to committing any other sin e.g gambling.
            Ibrahim says: Don't think about who you have been or what others have done.

            Who have you decided to become?

            Comment


              #7
              Najim : About Hala/non-Zabeeha, its in the Quraan, please read it.

              FYI : I heard that Albertsons(grocery stores) in Los Angeles,CA will start to carry Halal meat for the growing muslim demands/needs - when will this take place I dont know, but soon - InshaAllah and InshaAllah other grocery stores will follow.



              [This message has been edited by zman (edited July 17, 2001).]

              Comment


                #8
                the issue is'nt if to eat halal food or not ... it is wat is the defination of halal meat ... and no one has yet proven that to me ... when I say prove I mean hadith or quranic verse ...

                again the question is wat makes a meat halal ? where does it say in the quran that bismallah must be said before killing the animal only and that i must be killed with a knife and all the blood must come out ??


                ------------------
                To do in life is to appreciate it. To live life is to lose it. I dont know what I am saying so I will stop saying it.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by AekKella:


                  again the question is wat makes a meat halal ? where does it say in the quran that bismallah must be said before killing the animal only and that i must be killed with a knife and all the blood must come out ??

                  Ibrahim says: Hi Aekkella, to understand this we need to understand what Allah (swt) approved first. which means we have to look at the earlier revelations


                  From the period of Prophet Adam (pbuh) till the Period of Prophet Nuh (pbuh) only vegetarianism was approved for mankind . ( which is the reason why hindus are vegetarians . How do we know this?

                  We have to refer to the Veda and the Bible to understand this better, the Veda is much more edited and corrupted than the Bible hence we will look at the Bible

                  Genesis 9

                  1. Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth.

                  2. The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands.


                  3. Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

                  4. "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it.

                  Ibrahim says; From the above passage it is very clear that meat was approved for mankind from Prophet Nuh’s (pbuh) time and the main condition (halal or haram) was the proper slaughter , which involved the removal of blood from the animal that is to be consumed. (read Gen 9:4 again)

                  Hence Halal meat must be slaughtered according to what the Allah (swt) had ordained and was taught by the prophets from the time of Prophet Nuh (pbuh)

                  Now lets look at the Qur’an

                  Soorah 5:3 & 4
                  Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat blood the flesh of swine AND THAT ON WHICH HATH BEEN INVOKED THE NAME OF OTHER THAN ALLAH that which hath been killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a headlong fall or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you completed my favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any forced by hunger with no inclination to transgression Allah is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful. 691 692 693 694
                  4 They ask thee what is lawful to them (as food): say: Lawful unto you are (all) things good and pure: and what ye have taught your trained hunting animals (to catch) in the manner directed to you by Allah; eat what they catch for you BUT PRONOUNCE THE NAME OF ALLAH OVER IT : and fear Allah; for Allah is swift in taking account. 697 698


                  Commentary by Yusof Ali for the above :-

                  691 Cf. ii. 173 and nn. 173 and 174. The prohibition of dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which other names than that of Allah have been invoked, has been there explained. (5.3)

                  692 If an animal dies by strangling, or by a violent blow, or a headlong fall, or by being gored to death, or by being attacked by a wild animal, the presumption is that it becomes carrion, as the life-blood is congealed before being taken out of the body. But the presumption can be rebutted. If the life-blood still flows and the solemn mode of slaughter (zabh in the name of Allah is carried out, it becomes lawful as food. (5.3)
                  693 This was also an idolatrous rite, different from that in which a sacrifice was devoted to a particular idol or a false god. (5.3)

                  694 Gambling of all kinds is forbidden; ii. 291. A sort of lottery or raffle practised by Pagan Arabs has been described in n. 241. Division of meat in this way is here forbidden, as it is a form of gambling. (5.3)

                  697 The previous verse was negative; it defined what was not lawful for food, viz., things gross, or disgusting, or dedicated to superstition. This verse is positive: it defines what is lawful, viz., all things that are good and pure. (5.4)

                  698 In the matter of the killing for meat, the general rule is that the name of Allah, the true God should be pronounced as a rite in order to call our attention to the fact that we do not take life thoughtlessly but solemnly for food, with the permission of Allah, to whom we render the life back. The question of hunting is then raised. How can this solemn rite be performed when we send forth trained hawks, trained hounds, or trained cheetahs or other animals trained for the chase? They must necessarily kill at some distance from their masters. Their game is legalised on these conditions: (1) that they are trained to kill, not merely for their own appetite, or out of mere wantonness, but for their master's food; the training implies that something of the solemnity which Allah has taught us in this matter goes into their action; and (2) we are to pronounce the name of Allah over the quarry; this is interpreted to mean that the Takbir should be pronounced when the hawk or dog, etc., is released to the quarry. (5.4)

                  699 The question is for food generally, such as is ordinarily "good and pure": in the matter of meat it should be killed with some sort of solemnity analogous to that of the Takbir. The rules of Islam in this respect being analogous to those of the People of the Book, there is no objection to mutual recognition, as opposed to meat killed by Pagans with superstitious rites. In this respect the Christian rule is the same: "That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication." (Acts, xv. 29). Notice the bracketing of fornication with things unlawful to eat. (5.5)


                  Ibrahim says: hence saying the NAME OF ALLAH is a commandment given to Muslims before slaughter of an animal that is to be consumed. Failing to do so makes it Haram.



                  Actions will be judged by their intentions, and every person will be judged accordingly.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    everything u said was correct but was not from the quran ... but was an interpetation of another man ...


                    and the last thing u said was very very true... becuase Islam is a religion of intention and since my intention is'nt to eat haram meet and since I still dont see exact proof of mcdonald meat being haram ... well u know!


                    ------------------
                    To do in life is to appreciate it. To live life is to lose it. I dont know what I am saying so I will stop saying it.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Ibrahim:
                      )

                      Now lets look at the Qur’an

                      Soorah 5:3 & 4

                      Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat blood the flesh of swine AND THAT ON WHICH HATH BEEN INVOKED THE NAME OF OTHER THAN ALLAH that which hath been killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a headlong fall or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you completed my favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any forced by hunger with no inclination to transgression Allah is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful. 691 692 693 694

                      4 They ask thee what is lawful to them (as food): say: Lawful unto you are (all) things good and pure: and what ye have taught your trained hunting animals (to catch) in the manner directed to you by Allah; eat what they catch for you BUT PRONOUNCE THE NAME OF ALLAH OVER IT : and fear Allah; for Allah is swift in taking account. 697 698


                      Ibrahim says: hence saying the NAME OF ALLAH is a commandment given to Muslims before slaughter of an animal that is to be consumed. Failing to do so makes it Haram.



                      Actions will be judged by their intentions, and every person will be judged accordingly.
                      hello !!! this is the Qur'an and those are the commands, so accept it or reject it at your own peril

                      Comment


                        #12
                        The issue is not giving preference to one command over the other (halah meat over abstaining from gambling)... but the main thing is to take a start... do one good deed, or avoid one sin and others will automatically follow..
                        if u take one step towards Allah he will take ten steptowards you. If u go walking Allah will come running to you....

                        eating is something everyone has to do everday ... so it may be a good starting point...u dont go out and gamble everyday...and offering salah 5 times may not be easy for one who is not used to it...starting with a simple thing like choosing the food you eat may give u a good starting point...Inshallah others will soon follow... (btw u can also start by taking a wet tissue/water bottle every time u visit a public rest room )

                        if we muslims make an effort to eat halal only and insist on it u will soon see halal meat being sold everywhere... imagine halal whoopers.... dont say its not doable...jews did it and we see K and U (koshar & Union of Orthodox jew certified) labels on many things... hindus did it ... we now have veggie burgers....so why cant we do it...... why because we are too sissy to do it... we are afraid to be labelled as mullahs.... we fear man more than Allah....

                        btw Cub Foods in Iowa carries halal food....thanks to the efforts of a kurdish manager..!!!!

                        [This message has been edited by pukka desi (edited July 18, 2001).]

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Guys,

                          Issue is not halal meat, I am talking about halal deeds as well. I am asking why people who are committing known sins are not judged the same way as the persons who is only eating non-halal meat?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Dear Najim,

                            Those people who commit other sins also make mistakes and should be considered accordingly. Islam does not say that a person who eats non-Halaal food should be looked down and all other sins are okay. However, we have become brainwashed. Most of us have lived in a society full of corruption, many have been forced into it through the setting, the others have become immuned to it. A majority of these do not want to be do so in their sub-conscience, but either they do not have a choice, or they are not willing to give away as much. Since a majority is either directly involved, immuned to it, or helpless, all this stuff cannot be looked down upon by the minority. I mean even if it is looked down by the minority, nobody cares about the minority.

                            Well, thats only my point of view.

                            Thanks,
                            Omer

                            [This message has been edited by oiqbal (edited July 18, 2001).]

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