Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

'41 million converted to Ahmadiat in a year'

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    '41 million converted to Ahmadiat in a year'

    this figures are true? what is the differences between tradtional form of islam
    and ahamadiyas? is there any need for or do they have the right to form new religious
    sects?
    '41 million converted to Ahmadiat in a year'

    By Amir Mateen

    WASHINGTON: Former federal finance secretary MM Ahmad has said 41 million people have converted to "Ahmadiat" worldwide in just one year. The disclosure was made before Washington-based journalists, who were invited to Jamaat Ahmadia's annual convention in Maryland. This seemed like a new policy of "glasnost" by the otherwise secretive Jamaat.

    The 41 million figures, which is like nearly one-third of Pakistan, was naturally contested by the journalists. It seemed too big a jump from the previous year's claimed figure of 10 million. However, the Jamaat claimed they have proofs to back their claim. It is all documented as each convert has to fill a form of acceptance and seek blessing (Baai't) from the Jamaat.

    According to MM Ahmad (Mirza Muzzaffar Ahmad), who is Amir of Jamaat in North America, most of these conversions took place in Africa among Christians and Heathen tribes. Ahmad, known for financial wizardry during Ayub Khan and then Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's government, vented his feelings of hurt about Pakistan.

    Fragile and old, 88, MM Ahmad has still not lost hope. His first love remains Pakistan. He said despite being persecuted inhumanly, the Ahmadis of Pakistan were always loyal to the country and would remain so. He quoted numerous examples when Ahmadis stood out in their sacrifices for Pakistan.

    During the 1971 war, he said, the Pakistan Air Force sought volunteers for a particular operation that had zero per cent probability of survival. There was just one person who stood out. He was an Ahmadi by the name of Munir. He died but still has a boulevard named after him in Lahore's cantonment. He said it pained him to see Pakistan heading towards economic collapse. But then, he said, the kind of extremist tendencies that had seeped in, it should not come as a surprise.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    [This message has been edited by rvikz (edited June 24, 2001).]

    #2
    really i dont know the differance but there r supposed to be 73 diffenert types ( i mean sects /devide in to ) of islam. so i dont know which islam is the real one. personaly i just can believe it that i used to think at least i am a muslim an i will go to havean afeter hell but now i am worried that if there r supposed to be 73 different segment then i have ven less chance of going to heaven

    i just cant believe it ai mean how can we know that which sect of islam is true, i mean i thought islam was the true religion
    some one help
    (may allah forgive me if i have said any thing stupid)


    ------------------
    'Hate your enemy mildly; he may become your friend one day' - Hadith
    'as for those who are slain in the cause of allah, he will not allow their work to perish ... he will admit them to the paradise he has made known to them' - Surah 47:7

    Comment


      #3
      Oh Now I know what was that form that NYAhmadi got my signatures on.
      and did I mention it was the best lunch I had

      Comment


        #4
        Hmm. I am still awaiting the arrival of my Lexus.

        ------------------
        They shoot partypoopers, don't they?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by waleed:

          really i dont know the differance but there r supposed to be 73 diffenert types ( i mean sects /devide in to ) of islam. so i dont know which islam is the real one. personaly i just can believe it that i used to think at least i am a muslim an i will go to havean afeter hell but now i am worried that if there r supposed to be 73 different segment then i have ven less chance of going to heaven

          i just cant believe it ai mean how can we know that which sect of islam is true, i mean i thought islam was the true religion
          some one help
          By collecting and analyzing all the texts of the Hadith you have referred to, the picture which emerges is that:
          • The prediction stated in these Ahadith pertain to the period just after the Prophet (sws), and relate to events within the land of Arabia. Such Ahadith are meant to put Muslims on guard, and are also a means to substantiate the Prophethood of Muhammad (sws) for people of his times.
          • The number 73 is not been used here in its literal sense. It is used here figuratively to emphasize a point. Such a usage has examples in every language. For example we say: If Ahmad has faltered three times you will falter four times. This does not mean that we are counting the number of times some one is going to falter. It only means that we are warning our addressee that he will falter more than Ahmad and therefore he should be very careful.
          • The word "firqah" here does not imply a religious sect. It means the various political factions and groups which do not submit to the authority of the state and create anarchy in the society.
          • These Ahadith also direct Muslims to remain attached to the "al-jama'ah", when such a time of anarchy comes. The word "al-jama`ah" means the state and does not mean a religious faction or group.
          • It is known that many factions like the Khawarij and the Sabai created a lot of nuisance in the period after the Prophet (sws) by rebelling against the state authority. It is groups such as these which have been referred to in such Ahadith. The Prophet (sws) is urging his companions and followers not to become part of such rebellious factions and to cling to the authority of the state.


          I hope this helps.

          The Learner

          ------------------
          They shoot partypoopers, don't they?

          Comment


            #6
            religion and the well being of a country are two different things...whether or not we do well as a country depends on our countrymen...they may be hindu, muslim, chirstian...as you mentioned the fighter pilot munir, there were many many chirstian fighter pilots that fought in the 71 war, in the 65 war, just go to the pak defense site and it's all there...and recently when the kargil conflict was at it's peaks, and war seemed inevitable, christian priests and all said that they would be willing to pay their lives down for PAKISTAN...
            yousuf youhana is christian, an another example...it's national solidarity, every religion should be tolerant with the other...that is where pakistan's problems arise, too many extremist, who say, we have this many people, you only have this many...therefore, majority is authority, we rule, u suck...that is not the way a nation is made, we should forget sunni/shia/ahmedi conflicts to help our country which sorely needs us to unite rather than unite under each of our faiths/sects.
            i think this post should've been moved to the pak affairs section rather than the religion sections.
            but coming back to the 41 million in a year claim...sunnis are 90% and shia are 10%
            ahmedis are regarded as a sub group of sunni's and ismilis/agha khanis are regarded as a sub group of shias. but does that mean that since sunnis are the majority, they are rite?! in that way...the christians could come up to us and say...u know if u take the whole world population of hindus, sikhs, buddhists, muslims, jews...you would equal the world population of christians...are they the rite religion?!


            ------------------
            "There as many ideas in the minds of men and women as there are stars in the sky, it is your job to hold on to one and make it come true"
            Anonymous

            Comment


              #7
              Wonder What ever happend to "Birth Control"

              Sorry, Sorry I had to say that!!

              41 million seems a bit too large. And According to the 10 mil a year beore it means

              every Ahmadi Converted at least 4 other people!!!!!

              That is a bit toooooooo far fetched!!!

              Comment


                #8
                Chann Ji. That signature was for the Declaration of Unification of Two Punjabs. Anyhow, I have very mixed feelings about all missionary works. I admire when Ahmadis go all over the world to set up schools and hospitals, but I don’t like the idea of ‘conversions’. It is a long debate and perhaps some other time.

                I have great respect and admiration for MM Ahmad. I had the opportunity to meet with him on several occasions and he is a fine man. Whoever questions Ahmadis patriotism for Pakistan has absolutely no clue about this sect of Islam.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I don't see anyone questioning "Ahmedi's patriotism" here.
                  41-million is HUGEEEE, I really mean HUGGGEEE number. I really would like to see these numbers backed by proof.
                  Again, as Mr Ahle-Sunnah said, being majority doesn't make you right... its just because of the patheic democracy teaching that majority is right, its not!!
                  similarly, converting in big numbers is not a measure of success too.

                  in last years of Prophets PBUH, people entered Islam in groups.... and after his departure, people left Islam in groups, does it mean Islam is a failure??? heck no, the ones who left Islam are failures.

                  ------------------
                  We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    that is rite, national solidarity is there because we are pakistani, but i don't know how or when...we've all been brainwashed, my parents tell me that it was the british that started it, first they(christians, hindus, sikhs, muslims) would all be friends, they would go to their own religious places w/o the other offending them. All this while we've made our boundary walls higher and higher...not for pakistan, but for sunni/shia/ahmedi/qadiani/etc etc and in doing so we've created boundaries against each other, made pakistan weaker...it's amazing how japan went thru the two nuclear bombs, the damn country was totally decimated...and yet they are one of the world leaders today...didn't we get independence around the same time?!
                    I for one do not question the patriotism of any person just because they are of a different faith, our founding father wasn't sunni/shia.
                    all these politicians have brought pakistan to it's knees, we will need IMF money for 3-4 years...it's not going to end...just watch...all these politicians with their seperate parties, you think the nation will be divided?!
                    how can individual sects show their patriotism/national solidarity when the other sect sees it as a ploy to take over the country or some bizarre thought like that.
                    the glass half empty or half full?! lets see what President Musharaf oh sorry, i forgot his other title ceo...anything else he's promoted himself to?!
                    I welcome pakistanis to their 3rd Martial law regime

                    sorry this post got a bit messed...but if you're shia or sunni or ahmedi...does it matter?! as one of the above will i be better or worse then some other pakistani to help my country?!

                    ------------------
                    "There as many ideas in the minds of men and women as there are stars in the sky, it is your job to hold on to one and make it come true"
                    Anonymous

                    [This message has been edited by Ahl_e_Sunnah (edited June 25, 2001).]

                    Comment


                      #11
                      RE: Changez_like

                      “…41-million is HUGEEEE, I really mean HUGGGEEE number. I really would like to see these numbers backed by proof... converting in big numbers is not a measure of success too…”
                      • You should know this by now, that followers of false claimants don’t succeed. if you are really surprised to see these figures then please go to annual International Jalsa at Germany next month and see first hand how many will take the oath of allegiance and enter the fold of Islam through this sect.

                        Moreover as I earlier quoted some verses from chapter 69; it says that even if Mohammad(sa) has forged a lie against the authority of Alah, or even if Mohammad(sa) had said something which Allah has not said, then Allah would have caught him with His right hand and cut off his life vein. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed openly that Allah has appointed him as the Imam Mahdi... If it was a false declaration then Allah would have caught Ahmad, Ahmadis and Ahmadiyyat with all His power and completely eradicated from the earth. A single man raised his voice from a remote unknown village and today you can find his followers at every nook and corner of the world. Is this not a sufficient sign?

                        Do you still think that British/Jew Governments are stronger than Allah?

                        Mr Changez liars don’t succeed, Quran says for a kazib (liar) his kazab (lie) is sufficient to kill him.
                      Read this, Even Pakistani News are acknowledging the fact that 41 Million people have been converted to Ahmadiyyat.

                      inshallah the time is near when Islam will be recognized through this kafir sect.
                      • Jazakumullah wa ahsan’al Jaza!




                      [This message has been edited by Zalim (edited June 26, 2001).]
                      zameen tumhara kuch nahin bigar sakhtee, ger aasman say taluq pukhta ho....

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Zalim,

                        Its sad to see you confusing a person appointed by the british as appointed by Allaah. Its sad to see you giving credit of your success to Allaah when all of the support is coming from the west-enemies of Islam and Muslims.

                        Its easy to fool ignorant people who are helpless and you Qadianis with your pounds and $$$ can buy their faiths. Going into Bosnia and other poor African countries...where helpless poor souls are in abundance and are the easy targets for Qadianis missionaries.
                        Its easy to spread lies and misleading and inncorrect meaning of Koraan with the satellite channles financed by the british(the very creators of Qadianism for their political purposes).

                        And when someone asks you questions like these, you are stuck dumb:

                        Originally posted by Abdul Basit

                        What makes Mirza Ghulam Qadiani a Prophet?

                        What did he do to revive Islam and what did he accomplished for Islam?

                        None of his prophecies came true, why would God do that to his prophet when he makes a prophecy and it never comes true?

                        Do you reject the ahaadeeth of Muhammed(saw) which says there will come 40 dajjals(grand liars) who will claim prophethood after him but there are not prophets after Muhammed(saw)?

                        Why did he tell you guys to hold loyalty to British Government?


                        I asked you and your other Qadiani brothers in Qadianism some other questions but no one answered.

                        One more:

                        Who understood Islam and Koraan better than anyone else in this world, YOU or Companions of Muhammed(saw) and early Salaf?
                        ------------------
                        "I am not playing with a full deck!"

                        [This message has been edited by Abdul Basit (edited June 26, 2001).]

                        Comment


                          #13

                          A jump from appprox 10 million to 41 million in one year alone.

                          I suppose if the founder of the Cult can blatantly LIE, than it is not difficult for a person aged 88 suffering from Dementia to do the same and follow in the same footsteps.

                          Finally, does anyone actually know how Mirza died. Yes, Cholera. Something he had openly accursed.

                          Mirza Ghulam used to say that cholera or plague is the sign of Allah(SWT)'s wrath on mankind for their wrong doing! It is fitting that his last words were the admission that he had been stricken with the disease he was so fearful of.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Zalim:
                            RE: Changez_like

                            “…41-million is HUGEEEE, I really mean HUGGGEEE number. I really would like to see these numbers backed by proof... converting in big numbers is not a measure of success too…”
                            • You should know this by now, that followers of false claimants don’t succeed. if you are really surprised to see these figures then please go to annual International Jalsa at Germany next month and see first hand how many will take the oath of allegiance and enter the fold of Islam through this sect.

                              Moreover as I earlier quoted some verses from chapter 69; it says that even if Mohammad(sa) has forged a lie against the authority of Alah, or even if Mohammad(sa) had said something which Allah has not said, then Allah would have caught him with His right hand and cut off his life vein. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed openly that Allah has appointed him as the Imam Mahdi... If it was a false declaration then Allah would have caught Ahmad, Ahmadis and Ahmadiyyat with all His power and completely eradicated from the earth. A single man raised his voice from a remote unknown village and today you can find his followers at every nook and corner of the world. Is this not a sufficient sign?

                              Do you still think that British/Jew Governments are stronger than Allah?

                              Mr Changez liars don’t succeed, Quran says for a kazib (liar) his kazab (lie) is sufficient to kill him.
                            Read this, Even Pakistani News are acknowledging the fact that 41 Million people have been converted to Ahmadiyyat.

                            inshallah the time is near when Islam will be recognized through this kafir sect.
                            • Jazakumullah wa ahsan’al Jaza!


                            [This message has been edited by Zalim (edited June 26, 2001).]
                            The links you provided, DIDN'T admit that this actually happened, they just quoted MM Ahmed as saying such...

                            by the way, did you read the link YOU quoted... I did and somewhere it reads:

                            Almost half of these were in Africa, and the bulk of the rest of the conversions was in India where Christians have felt increasingly threatened by Hindu extremists.

                            does it open ur eyes? most of them were scared of Hindu extremists so they joined Muslims so they might get some support.

                            anyway, ALLAH is the one who GUIDES and HE is the one to send anyone astray.

                            also, as others indicated, if you go in northern Pakistan, Karim Agha Khan has "bought" thousands of 'weak followers' and they all are now Agha Khanis... does it mean that Agha Khani sect is true Islam?
                            This is an example seen by me, personally, I'm sure there would be millions around the world where poor and weak Muslims would convert to get the monetary benefit they receive.

                            ------------------
                            We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              people who are starving food is the first religen they will follow who gives them food
                              people who are doing little better education and job will be a big influense on them.
                              it all come down to economics and who can provide jobs health service education.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X