Relgions, including ISLAM, is NOT scientific and they don't have to be.

[kumarakn]

Religion builds on faith - Faith in the existence of a god, even when a logical proof cannot be derived. To have faith, logic is not needed. Muslims (some of them), should lose their urge to try and prove the scientific nature of Islam and its superiority.

Religion caters to the emotions of people. It addresses our hearts. The beauty of Islam and other religions, is in the belief that there exists a god, watching us, waiting to help us when we need them. I am surprised why we bring our minds here. If we bring our minds to demonstrate to ourselves the relationship of god with our own self, we will very soon think about the lack of need for religion - for what we think to be right today, we might very soon think as wrong.

Some of you ask questions of the probability of evolution and the secrets of universe and try to attribute it to god. When you try to use god to explain and reason out the unknown, there will be no difference between us and the pagans who feared god to be in lightnings. You must realize that god is beyond these happenings and the unhappenings.

These muslims should realize that Science or the knowledge we have acquired about nature and other events are not in competition with god. I would like to believe that whatever we know today is through the blessings of that god. We should assume that our Science to be a gift of God.

God, who gave us quran (and every other religious texts), did not give it to prove to the world that He(or She?) knows more than humans will ever know. These are texts for us to read, enjoy and appreciate the spiritual wisdom they preach.

Some people bring in religion and say gay people should be punished or water doesn't mix because god commanded it. What if we find in a few years the reasons for being gay to be genetic and the reasons for water not mixing to be their chemical composition? Does it mean there is no god?

Once again let me say, the feelings and need for a god is beyond all these. they are instinctive. If we go to an island where people have never seen civilization, they would have their gods too and have some rituals associated with it.

God was not invented and imposed, it is an instinctive need.

If we bring religion to control science we are merely doing the mistakes that Churches did unto Galileo. Like politics, religions should stay away from science, for they are no way connected.

As of me, I worship science. I believe in god too. They are not mutually exclusive. They are two different things.

Comments are welcome!


[This message has been edited by kumarakn (edited June 20, 2001).]

[Mr Partypooper]

Thank you for this opportunity. Given that there were so many threads on the topic of science, my comments would not have been highly appreciated by some participants. I must confess that I find these discussions on the alleged role of science in Islam quite amusing. The Qur'an is not meant to be, neither was it presented as, an encyclopaedia.

It may be of interest to note that most of the statements in the Qur’an, which refer to one or the other phenomena of nature have generally been worded in such a way that they serve their respective purpose (within their respective contexts), without unduly uncovering any unknown ‘scientific’ facts. In my opinion, the miracle of the Qur’an at such instances, is not in ‘exposing’ any unknown ‘scientific’ facts (as some Muslims like to believe), but in generally restricting itself to its message and making references to these natural phenomena in such words, which would not only serve their desired purpose, but also would not allow its addressees’ minds to wander away from its message. It is obvious that had the Qur’an clearly mentioned any unknown and, at that time, undiscoverable facts of nature, it would clearly have driven the inquisitive mind away from the message of the Qur’an into discovering and, subsequently verifying or refuting, the Qur’anic statements. This would, in turn, have rendered the Qur’anic message completely ineffective. In view of this fact, the Qur’an has, generally, based its message either upon the (correctly) known facts of nature or upon clearly observable signs of nature.

In fact, the topic on the issue of the role of science in religion will, I feel, be a great addition to the next Risala edition. I should get to work on it straightaway.

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They shoot partypoopers, don't they?

[Insaniyat]

I ran into this site
its amazing Quran has talked about some things long time back, Which science has discovered now and still trying to discover.
http://www.islam-guide.com/

[Changez_like]

I'm with kumarakn on this. We should not use science as a tool to verify/substantiate Quran... yes there are some phenomena described in Quran, but they are there to show people signs of Allah. Quran and Allah do not need to be proved by science. Allah is "be-niaz".
We should be focusing at the teachings of Quran.
Only for scientists who do not beleive in Allah, they can look at some info provided in Quran. Quran is not meant to be SCIENTIFIC ENCYCLOPEDIA (to the best of my knowledge).
Quran is code of life guiding to succeed in the test Allah has put us in.

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We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

[Insaniyat]

Originally posted by kumarakn:
[b]

Some people bring in religion and say gay people should be punished or water doesn't mix because god commanded it. What if we find in a few years the reasons for being gay to be genetic and the reasons for water not mixing to be their chemical composition? Does it mean there is no god?


b]

Well if the reason of water not mixing might be the chemical composition, then thats how God might have separated them from mixing, when he created the universe.

Now does anyone think all the universe, all this complex creatures, all this science came into existence itself, even though Quran has testified a lot of facts science has discovered now.

There are lot of theories so called science have said which have been disproved by others, like Bohr model of atom, Science believe in evolution, Y dont we see any evolution now, y don't we see humans coming out of monkeys anymore.
I dont think science is something to be worshiped



[This message has been edited by Insaniyat (edited June 21, 2001).]

[rvikz]

we as a humans evolved from animal species
religen does not accept that.
we should not seek scientific answers in religen and religious answers in science

[Akif]

100% agreed with Kumarakn

but who said Islam is a Religion?

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

The purpose of any religion or religiously orientated way of life, including Islam, is not to be a scientific guide; . Where Islamic revelations have made references to scientific facts, the intention is to back up the veracity of the message. I don't expect to find, say, quantum mechanics to be explained anywhere in Islamic sources. However, should there be a reference to a scientific phenomenon, I view it as extra evidence for Islam being the truth.

Originally posted by kumarakn:
water doesn't mix because god commanded it. What if we find in a few years ... the reasons for water not mixing to be their chemical composition? Does it mean there is no god?

Sorry for editing out the genetics part of the quote. But as a chemistry degree student, I can definately tell you that it has been proven conclusively that the reason for water not mixing is to do with chemical composition; namely the salt concentration in the waters.

However, what science has shown in this regard is that laws of physics dictate that an interface must exist between the two bodies of salt and fresh water. The religious aspect to this is that the laws of physics themselves were dictated by a divine entity.

[spatehk]

[QUOTE]

As of me, I worship science. I believe in god too. They are not mutually exclusive. They are two different things.

Comments are welcome!

thanks kum...i am with u.but we can not forget the great contributions gifted by the religions.....Mahabharatha and Bhagavath Geeetha contain allmost all the inventions the modern science has made.i beliebe the people who wrote the greatest books(Mahabharatha Bible and Quaran)were great scientists!!!

[wasir]

I have been reading different threads for the previous four five days about science and Islam

Everybody seems confused.......

Instead of trying to prove Islam according to science........just try understand science according to Islam.

A simple example.......1475 years back our Prophet(peace be upon him)told his companions that they shouldn't drink water in standing position, we Muslims did it as Sunnah but didn't know why it is preferred to drink water in sitting position untill few years back when scientists found out that %80 Arthuritas in the knees is caused by drinking water in standing position.

Now it is being researched that the miracles which happened in the time of different Prophets e.g flying in the air, disappearing in the air, same person being present at different places at the same time....can actually be exactly described in the science.

All Muslim brothers instead of proving scientific discoveries according to Quran which have been done......we should concentrate on discovering new ones by understanding Quran as our predecassors did.

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Wasir, it would be impossible for us to actually look for scientific facts in the Quran of which we ourselves are not sure. Take for example, the verse that says man is made from water. To an arab over the 1000 years ago I feel this would have seemed so unlikely that they would have felt that the meaning of the verse of verse was more spiritual than scientific. Of course, we know better now, but my point still stands. Any verse that is a scientific proof of the Quran, but which we cannot comprehend the science behind, will be assumed to have a spiritual meaning until we understand the science of the statement - whereupon the verse becomes a testimony to the Quran's truth.

[Maheen*]

Originally posted by Akif:
100% agreed with Kumarakn

but who said Islam is a Religion?

If Islam is not a religion , then what?

[Insaniyat]

[quote]Originally posted by spatehk:

As of me, I worship science. I believe in god too. They are not mutually exclusive. They are two different things.

Comments are welcome!

thanks kum...i am with u.but we can not forget the great contributions gifted by the religions.....Mahabharatha and Bhagavath Geeetha contain allmost all the inventions the modern science has made.i beliebe the people who wrote the greatest books(Mahabharatha Bible and Quaran)were great scientists!!!

Quran was revealed by God to the Prophet, He is the creator of the universe.

[Akif]

Originally posted by Maheen*:
If Islam is not a religion , then what?

Its a 'deen'.
Religion = Mazhab, and nowhere in the Quran is Islam referred to as a 'mazhab'.
Mazhab means something that teaches u 'tehzeeb', i-e culture. Mazhab/Religion is usually a mix of a few prayers, a couple of moral issues, and thats it. And the world religion/mazhab fits best with hinduism, christianity, judaism etc.

Islam has been defined in the Quran as a 'deen'. I dont know what the alternative word for deen is in english, but its defined as 'way of life'. Now when something is a way of life, it will encompass everything you do from the time you wake up in the morning, to the time you wake up the next morning....whether its eating, sleeping, drinking, going to work, dealing with ur family, dealing with co workers, etc. Islam teaches us all these issues seperately, and in very clear tones. It is a basis for the laws in our entire life. Hence it cannot be called a Religion. Religions are not only limited in their scope, they have the tendency to change as well.

[sholay]

Akif

Something to ponder over from the Qur'aan concerning Religion:

003.019 The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account.

042.013 The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the which We have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).

061.009 It is He Who has sent His Apostle with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, that he may proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).

Islam actually is a relgion and a way of life.