three tiers of hinduism...?

[pukka desi Find all posts View Profile Close pukka desi]

b4 u read ahead...let me make one request i have started this thread seeking some understanding plz dont turn it into another of those name calling matches...

I have talked to some hindu friends and from this i have gathered that there are three tiers in hinduism....
1. Popular hindusim followed by masses, they believe in many gods.
2. Priests hinduism.....they believe in the trinity of Vishnu, Shiva and Brahma
3. Scholarly hinduism.... the scholars are monothestic, believing in Brahaman (not to be confused with brahmin the caste)...

i need comments (yes its right,well somewhat, no thats outrageous), esp from followers of hindu faith on this forum

[kumarakn Find all posts View Profile Close kumarakn]

Pukka Desi:

What you are trying to do, that is understand in how many different planes Hinduism is practiced by different people was incidentally done by scholars as early as 3700 BC - a little before the Bhagavadh Gita time.

By then, Hinduism had split into many many branches, with various schools of thought and diffrent practices and implementation. So, people brought out a compilation of all these and came with a book called "Shata dharshanani".

It said that by then Hindusim had broken into 7 major schools and many other minor schools. The major ones were called and they followed as follows:

1. Yoga - Which believed that human body and mind can be chiseled through practice and self-denial and thus without the wall of Ego, one can achiveve supreme perfection and realize God.


2. Thru Maya – People believed that the world is an illusion and we should have a clear consciousness of the Supreme Being; Some maya intrepretations say everything is Hinduism, the practioners of Maya say, “Nothing” - the absolute nothing, is Hinduism

3. Meemamsa Vedantha - Absolute spiritualism, today's idol worship finds its roots in Meemamsa vedantha. Meemamsa vedantha has survived in a very modified form even until today.

4. Nyaya - which is based on logic, and to scientifically explain god through principles and theorams. These are people who beleived that someday Science can explain
God.

5. Visheshika and I forget the another one.


----------------------------------------------------

Now, answering your question about the prersent day Hinduism, Yes, somewhat you are right. I would break it as follows:

1. Concept of Brahm - 10% of Hindus
2. Trinity - 20% of Hindus
3. Ritualstic - 70% of Hindus

In true Hindusim, all three are absolutely right methods. Nothing is inferior nor superior. Also, I feel there is a big Chasm between the group1 and groups2&3. A majority of people in groups 2&3, imo, may not even know the beliefs of group1.

Well, this is just my opinion!

[ZZ Find all posts View Profile Close ZZ]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pukka desi:
b4 u read ahead...let me make one request i have started this thread seeking some understanding plz dont turn it into another of those name calling matches...

I have talked to some hindu friends and from this i have gathered that there are three tiers in hinduism....
1. Popular hindusim followed by masses, they believe in many gods.

some of them worship in one god without denying presence of others.

2. Priests hinduism.....they believe in the trinity of Vishnu, Shiva and Brahma

They also could believe many gods.

3. Scholarly hinduism.... the scholars are monothestic, believing in Brahaman (not to be confused with brahmin the caste)...

i need comments (yes its right,well somewhat, no thats outrageous), esp from followers of hindu faith on this forum



this is called vedanta, but is is more of pantheism than monotheism. (everything is god and god is everything is vedanta). you could have separation between god and world as in islam in dwaita philosophy (dualism), u could have qualified dualism (vishistadwait), you could have people not speaking of god(nyaya) and so on. of these adwaita or pantheism saying everything is god remains most popular philosophy.

[pukka desi Find all posts View Profile Close pukka desi]

Thank u kumar and ZZ....very good explanations indeed... next explanation required is under...

Now in the trinity there are three, and correct me if i am wrong, of these Vishnu is the god of north and Shiva is god of south ... dont know about brahma....

Now wether u believe in AIT (aryan invasion theory) or not, the north-south divide is a fact.... and ppl have tried to bridge it .... i think "Ariappa" the son of shiva & vishnu was one such attempt.... the hindu trinity might well be an attempt to give equal status to the "one" supreme gods of north and south....thus achieving unity in faith.....

[kumarakn Find all posts View Profile Close kumarakn]

Originally posted by pukka desi:
Thank u kumar and ZZ....very good explanations indeed... next explanation required is under...

Now in the trinity there are three, and correct me if i am wrong, of these Vishnu is the god of north and Shiva is god of south ... dont know about brahma....

Now wether u believe in AIT (aryan invasion theory) or not, the north-south divide is a fact.... and ppl have tried to bridge it .... i think "Ariappa" the son of shiva & vishnu was one such attempt.... the hindu trinity might well be an attempt to give equal status to the "one" supreme gods of north and south....thus achieving unity in faith.....

Pukka Desi, this is the first time ever somebody tells me that Shiva is the god of south and Vishnu north. Strange! Absolutely baseless.

Infact the biggest temples of Vishnu are deep down in South and the Biggest temples of Shiva are in North as well as South.
Vishnu's Guruvayoor and Tirupathi (both deep in south) are very very big temples, in fact one of the largest temples of the world. Shiva's Kailash of north, temples in UP as well as so many tamil nadu Shiva mega temples (My knowledge is limited to Tamil nadu only, sorry) demonstrate how Shiva is distributed through out.

Another important thing. There is no God called "Ariappa". Is it Ayyappa u r talking about? Even if it is Ayyappa (that u r talking about), He was born to Parvathi and Shiva when King Pandala worshipped him for a child.

So, Shiva of South and Vishnu of North is like saying Allah is for muslims of Indonesia only and is not for Muslims of Pakistan. Totally meaningless statements!

[ZZ Find all posts View Profile Close ZZ]

Originally posted by pukka desi:

Now in the trinity there are three, and correct me if i am wrong, of these Vishnu is the god of north and Shiva is god of south ... dont know about brahma....

difficult to say about arya-dravid theory. dont have enough knowledge on that. but vishnu and his incarnations are quite popular in south too. for example richest temple in world, tirupati, in tamil nadu is of lord venkateshwara who is supposed to be vishnu himself. there r two sects in tamil brahmins, aiyars and aiyangars one of which worships vishnu and other worships shiva. kerala predominantly worships lord krishna which is incrnation of lord vishnu. similarly north has shiva worshippers. amarnath in kashmir is shiva.

shiva is more popular among mystics staying out of towns and leaving in exotic locations. shiva temples are often at wonderful places like hilltops, lakes and likes while vishnu is more popular with common men doing daily activities.

[kumarakn Find all posts View Profile Close kumarakn]

Pardon my ignorance if I am wrong, isn't Kasi, Badrinath, Kedarnath, Varanasi all big temples in north are shiva temples?

Also there are many Shiva temples in Nepal, China (along Manasarovar) and Bangladesh.

A lot Shiva temples are found all through out the north eastern state of Manipur.

Shiva temples at Dakshin Kailash, Perur, Thiruvar mega Shiva temple, Kaala hasthi, Tanjore periya gopuram and such places of
Shiva worship are in Tamilnadu, deep down in south.

In essence, Shiva or vishnu or brahma is not restricted to or favoured more, in any pattern in any part of India.

[Changez_like Find all posts View Profile Close Changez_like]

When these Hinduism guys are here, let me ask a basic question about Hinduism please.

Why do people worship idols?
please choose one:
1. because idols will help reach the God
2. because idol is a symbol, so they pray his symbol
3. because God listens thru idols (prefers to listen through idols)
4. because idols are closer to God (same as 1?)
6. idol is the God
7. other reason (please explain)

------------------
We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

[rvikz Find all posts View Profile Close rvikz]

why people worship idols ?
people want to pass exams without studying

[ZZ Find all posts View Profile Close ZZ]

bhai.. people worship because they think god will help them.. pakistanis pray for cricket team's victory or dadima's health or son's job.. same thing with terrible hindoos.. basically people want to use god as their servant who will listen them if u keep diplomatic and good relations with him by praying or worshipping..

[Changez_like Find all posts View Profile Close Changez_like]

Originally posted by ZZ:
bhai.. people worship because they think god will help them.. pakistanis pray for cricket team's victory or dadima's health or son's job.. same thing with terrible hindoos.. basically people want to use god as their servant who will listen them if u keep diplomatic and good relations with him by praying or worshipping..

can you please answer me from the choices given?
I know people want GOD to solve all their problems without themselves doing anything...

------------------
We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

[kumarakn Find all posts View Profile Close kumarakn]

Nice question Changez! Will have to read some stuff to answer that! Will be back this weekend!

[pukka desi Find all posts View Profile Close pukka desi]

Originally posted by kumarakn:

Pukka Desi, this is the first time ever somebody tells me that Shiva is the god of south and Vishnu north. Strange! Absolutely baseless.


Infact the biggest temples of Vishnu are deep down in South and the Biggest temples of Shiva are in North as well as South.

I stand corrected.... infact i just remembered that a Bengali friend of mine was saying that Shiva is worshipped big time in bengal.... and i had always thought "Kali" was the main goddess in Bengal....

anyway thanks 4 the info

[rvikz Find all posts View Profile Close rvikz]

Originally posted by Changez_like:
When these Hinduism guys are here, let me ask a basic question about Hinduism please.

Why do people worship idols?
please choose one:
1. because idols will help reach the God
2. because idol is a symbol, so they pray his symbol
3. because God listens thru idols (prefers to listen through idols)
4. because idols are closer to God (same as 1?)
6. idol is the God
7. other reason (please explain)

why all nations salute to peice of cloth
"the flag" of their own country?
there is no intrensic value in the flag
but symbolises their object of nationalism.

[skv anand Find all posts View Profile Close skv anand]

Dear Changez, You may have a good laugh, but all your seven options are correct.

And pukka desi, pls don’t expect a correct answer on Aryan invasion and cultural integration with dravids. These are so much mingled in pre historic era and mythology that you may end as a scholar if would like to study thoroughly. All versions available are entirely contradictory.

You may never understand why a Hindu Indian worshipping one day some grass and the next day he might be offering something to a planet in cosmos.
I repeat, don’t expect a short cut answer.