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    004.034 Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husbandís) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

    any comments on this?

    #2
    No comments from muslim women about quran sanctioning wife beating?

    Comment


      #3
      hmmm no comments from a Muslimah but here's one from a guy.

      The Quran states that :
      As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance)
      Firstly, for a man to be permitted to strike his wife in any way, she must have been disloyal to him and be misbehaving - thus she must be already disobeying the command of God, her Lord.

      Now under such conditions, the Quran stipulates that her husband has the right to express his displeasure. Firstly, he must talk to her about her behaviour, thus letting her know that is distancing him from her and annoying him.

      Should she refuse to listen to him, after his trying to repeatedly talk to her about the issue, and continues to deliberately aggrvate him, the next option available to her husband is to not share a bed with her. This action is intended to demonstrate exactly how upset the husband is, by practically demonstrating his growing sense of isolation (both emotionally and physically) from his wife. This makes it extremely clear to the wife that the husband is very upset.

      Finally, should a man's wife, by now in full knowledge of the fact that she is upsetting her husband a lot, continue to try and push him over the edge, as a LAST AND FINAL RESORT God grants man the option of striking his wife lightly

      Note that such physical action is only permitted after all other attempts to allow a man to express his displeasure have failed. Furthermore, the right to strike one's wife is qualified by the term lightly. Generally it is felt that this term means that one is not allowed to hit one's wife with sufficient force as to leave any visible marks. Should a woman recieve visible marks of a beating, it is justification for an Islamic Court to annul the marriage on the grounds of mistreatment.

      An analogy to the situation is the way in many parents, as a final resort, lightly slap disobedient children. Such an action does not mean that the parents do not love the child anymore; rather it is carried out as a final resort when the child misbehaves.
      Muslims are so good at dividing that they can divide the atom. If you see two Muslims, probably they belong to 3 parties.
      Al-Ghazali

      Comment


        #4

        Amy

        For the record, can you please confirm what the Bible says about wife beating! As you so eloquently have put it.

        Comment


          #5
          Sholay:
          Quran is the final book, so let's keep the discussion on what I posted. I am not concerned with what Bible says.


          MadScientist:
          Just because some one is disloyal, they deserve a beating?

          Comment


            #6
            I don't really believe in beatings, how about a discussion with your wife? Beating is kinda barbaric. I haven't heard any of the high islamic figures beating their wives.

            ------------------
            Jitna Diya Sarkar Nay Mujko, Itni Meri Auqat Nahi, Yeh Saab Tumhara Karam Hai Aqa, Mujh Mein Aisi Koi Baat Nahin.


            Love happens once . . .
            Rabul MashriqaiN wal MaghribaiN

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by amy:
              MadScientist:
              Just because some one is disloyal, they deserve a beating?
              As I see it, a wife's disloyalty in a marriage is when she knowingly commits an act in the knowledge that it will hurt her husband. As I have stipulated before, a woman who commits such an act deserves to be spoken to first about it and have the chance to account for her behaviour. Should she then continue to knowingly damage the marriage, the effect on the marriage is made evident. Once aware of this, should she continue to attempt to hurt her husband, then yes, I do believe that it is possible to justify a woman's being very lightly struck. By this stage she will have had full knowledge that what she is doing is hurting her husband, and yet is cruel enough to continue with her actions. I feel that it such cruelty can be met with very limited physical force.

              As to Coconut's question, the reason why you don't hear of high Islamic figures beating their wives is because they are following the example of the Prophet (SAWS). He did not ever strike his wives, and in fact stated that the best of muslims are those who treat their wives the kindest.
              Hence I, personally, would never ever raise so much as a finger against my wife (when I get married). I believe that whilst God has given me the right to use limited physical force as an action of last resort, He would much rather prefer me not to do it.

              PS: "Beating" is a poor word to use here. Bear in mind that any blow that leaves any physical mark is a sin. What is permitted is only very very light physical contact.

              Here are some quotes from sunnah.org

              Allah ordered the believers to "consort with women in kindness" (4:19) and He said: "And of His signs are this: He created for you helpmeets from yourselves that ye might find rest in them, and He ordained between you love and mercy. Lo, herein indeed are portents for folk who reflect" (30:21).

              The Prophet (s) said: "Do not beat your wife." He also said: "Do not strike your wife in the face." The expiation for striking one's slave in the face is to set him or her free on the spot, but what expiation is there for striking one's wife? The Prophet (s) condemned the man who beats his wife in the day and then approaches her at night. And to beat her to the extent of inflicting serious injury is enough grounds for her to obtain divorce from the judge.


              Muslims are so good at dividing that they can divide the atom. If you see two Muslims, probably they belong to 3 parties.
              Al-Ghazali

              Comment


                #8
                And here I found a wonderful article on the subject at http://www.jannah.org/sisters/end.html

                I believe that this says it all.

                ***********************************
                In the event of a family dispute, the Qur'an exhorts the husband to
                treat his wife kindly and not overlook her POSITIVE ASPECTS (see
                Qur'an 4:19). If the problem relates to the wife's behavior, her
                husband may exhort her and appeal for reason. In most cases, this
                measure is likely to be sufficient. In cases where the problem
                continues, the husband may express his displeasure in another peaceful
                manner, by sleeping in a separate bed from hers. There are cases,
                however, in which a wife persists in deliberate mistreatment and
                expresses contempt of her husband and disregard for her marital
                obligations. Instead of divorce, the husband may resort to another
                measure that may save the marriage, at least in some cases. Such a
                measure is more accurately described as a gentle tap on the body, but
                NEVER ON THE FACE, making it more of a symbolic measure then a
                punitive one. Following is the related Qur'anic text:

                Men are the protectors and maintainers of women. because Allah has
                given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support
                them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly
                obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have
                them guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and
                ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next) do not share their beds,
                (and last) beat (tap) them (lightly); but if they return to obedience,
                seek not against them means (of annoyance): for Allah is Most High,
                Great (above you all). (4:34)

                Even here, that maximum measure is limited by the following:

                a. It must be seen as A RARE EXCEPTION TO THE REPEATED EXHORTATION OF
                MUTUAL RESPECT, KINDNESS AND GOOD TREATMENT, discussed earlier.
                Based on the Qur'an and hadith this measure may be used in the cases
                of lewdness on the part of the wife or extreme refraction and
                rejection of the husband's reasonable requests on a consistent basis
                (nushuz). Even then, other measures, such as exhortation, should be
                tried first.

                b. As defined by hadith, it is NOT PERMISSIBLE TO STRIKE ANYONE'S
                FACE, CAUSE ANY BODILY HARM OR EVEN BE HARSH. What the hadith
                qualified as dharban ghayra mubarrih, or light striking, was
                interpreted by early jurists as a (symbolic) use of miswak (a small
                natural toothbrush)! They further qualified permissible "striking" as
                that which leaves no mark on the body. It is interesting that this
                latter fourteen-centuries-old qualifier is the criterion used in
                contemporary American law to separate a light and harmless tap or
                strike from "abuse" in the legal sense. This makes it clear that even
                this extreme, last resort, and "lesser of the two evils" measure that
                may save a marriage does not meet the definitions of "physical abuse,"
                "family violence, " or "wife battering" in the 20th century law in
                liberal democracies, where such extremes are so commonplace that they
                are seen as national concerns.

                c. The permissibility of such symbolic expression of the seriousness
                of continued refraction DOES NOT IMPLY ITS DESIRABILITY. In several
                ahadith, Prophet Muhammad (P) discouraged this measure. Among his
                sayings are the following: "Do not beat the female servants of Allah;"
                "Some (women) visited my family complaining about their husbands
                (beating them). These (husbands) are not the best of you;" and"[It is
                not a shame that] one of you beats his wife like [an unscrupulous
                person] beats a slave and maybe he sleeps with her at the end of the
                day." (See Riyadh Al-Saliheen, op.cit,p.p. 137-140). In another
                hadith the Prophet(P) said

                ...How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel
                and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?... (Sahih
                Al-Bukhari,op.cit., vol.8.hadith 68,pp.42-43).

                d. True following of the sunnah is to follow the example of the
                Prophet Muhammad (P), who NEVER RESORTED TO THAT MEASURE, regardless
                of the circumstances.

                e. Islamic teachings are universal in nature. They respond to the
                needs and circumstances of diverse times, cultures and circumstances.
                Some measures may work in some cases and cultures or with certain
                persons but may not be effective in others. by definition, a
                "permissible" act is neither required, encouraged or forbidden. In
                fact it may be BETTER TO SPELL OUT THE EXTENT of permissibility, such
                as in the issue at hand, rather than leaving it unrestricted and
                unqualified, or ignoring it all together. In the absence of strict
                qualifiers, persons may interpret the matter in their own way, which
                can lead to excesses and real abuse.

                f. Any excess, cruelty, family violence, or abuse committed by any
                "Muslim" can never be traced, honestly, to any revelatory text (Qur'an
                or hadith). Such EXCESSES AND VIOLATIONS ARE TO BE BLAMED ON THE
                PERSON(S) HIMSELF, as it shows that they are paying lip service to
                Islamic teachings and injunctions and failing to follow the true
                Sunnah of the Prophet (P).


                Muslims are so good at dividing that they can divide the atom. If you see two Muslims, probably they belong to 3 parties.
                Al-Ghazali

                Comment


                  #9
                  Amy

                  Thats a good topic,

                  As you must know MOhammad was born at a place where women were getting burried alive, were being burnt cos they were merely women.
                  Islam was thus created by mohammad to abolish all those thing, but even then he has to know the limits as to where he should draw lines.

                  GIRLS were acpeted as commodities, properties not as humans. MOhammad by giving quran got rid of 99 percent of women cruelty problems.

                  As a human there is no reason to hit or beat anyone. Whether a muslim or not.

                  Women have to be two as a witness.
                  women gets 1/6th of her husbands inheritence.
                  women can't have 4 wives at a time.
                  so here are the other things where mohammad gave levy to arab ignorant world.

                  In modern society there are laws that prevent abusing of any being, human or not.

                  I hpe I answered your quest.

                  Finally, Beating may not be the appropriate translation of surah nisa ayat.

                  as far as all the others comment on top forget about these people.
                  there is no law or even quran where it says beat the woman.
                  I honestly believe it is purely a misinterpretation of that ayat

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I don't know if any of the muslim women wanna comment on this topic, but let me say one more thing and that is that I have not seen anywhere in quran, that if a husband is disloyal, he should also be beaten in addition to the other punishments mentioned for wives.If any one else has seen that in quran, please let me know.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Amy,
                      Regarding your query about muslim women replying, I suggest you reread Mad Scientist's replies which are more than adequate, anything I would say would most likely be synonymous with what he said.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Philosopher:
                        Women have to be two as a witness.
                        women gets 1/6th of her husbands inheritence.
                        women can't have 4 wives at a time.
                        Mister Philosopher,

                        Have you ever bothered to find out the reasoning behind the above quoted practices?


                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Girl from Quraysh:
                          Amy,
                          Regarding your query about muslim women replying, I suggest you reread Mad Scientist's replies which are more than adequate, anything I would say would most likely be synonymous with what he said.
                          Let me be straight forward and blunt:
                          Do muslim women accept wife beating as sanctioned by Quran? ( amounts to domestic violence under the laws of most countries)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Girl from Qurysh,
                            I don't believe you are talking about the reasoning that GIRLS have lesser brains and intellect than men?
                            Or girls are more emotional than guys?
                            By accepting beatings whether it is physical or mental(abuse) you just accept mediocrity of society.

                            Above quotes from quran are merely INTERPRETATIONS those hold no authority what the REAL WORD of QURAAN bears. As we all know one word in arabic may mean 300 different translations. So that may not be an authentic translation(s).
                            I am sorry GIRLFROM QURYSH, but I donot accept that woman or any creature on earth should be harmed for any reason. Although for my convenience I do eat meat. But hurting something, especially a woman I dont think you will like it too.
                            And if any one do like their husbands to beat you up than you must have a very low self-esteem.
                            But it is nowehere written in quran to beat your wife (bruise her on not)

                            AMY..

                            No dear AMY no one accept that kind of treatment they might take it cos tey are scared, or they believe they have no choice but think again, would you take that beating?



                            ------------------
                            cogito ergo sum... "I think therefore I am..." & "I am therefore I think"

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by amy:
                              Let me be straight forward and blunt:
                              Do muslim women accept wife beating as sanctioned by Quran? ( amounts to domestic violence under the laws of most countries)
                              Actually if you read point b) of my earlier post, you will see that what the Quran sanctions would not stand up in any court as domestic violence.

                              b. As defined by hadith, it is NOT PERMISSIBLE TO STRIKE ANYONE'S
                              FACE, CAUSE ANY BODILY HARM OR EVEN BE HARSH. What the hadith
                              qualified as dharban ghayra mubarrih, or light striking, was
                              interpreted by early jurists as a (symbolic) use of miswak (a small
                              natural toothbrush)! They further qualified permissible "striking" as
                              that which leaves no mark on the body. It is interesting that this
                              latter fourteen-centuries-old qualifier is the criterion used in
                              contemporary American law to separate a light and harmless tap or
                              strike from "abuse" in the legal sense. This makes it clear that even
                              this extreme, last resort, and "lesser of the two evils" measure that
                              may save a marriage does not meet the definitions of "physical abuse,"
                              "family violence, " or "wife battering" in the 20th century law in
                              liberal democracies, where such extremes are so commonplace that they
                              are seen as national concerns


                              Muslims are so good at dividing that they can divide the atom. If you see two Muslims, probably they belong to 3 parties.
                              Al-Ghazali

                              Comment

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