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    A simple ques.. .

    Sheraz told me in another thread that..

    "and we believe Prophet and His Family are better then the Prophets that came earlier"

    that was really new to me as I believe only Prophet Muhammad was in higher rutba than other messengers but Quran highly regards and states Allah's love for Christ, Moses Dawood. Yousaf etc .. Iam just asking my other shia brothers and sisters that if they have the same faith or a particular shia faction holds that..

    a simple yes or no is a perfectly acceptable answer.. plesae no heated or hatred filled answers...
    Saints are fine for Heaven, but they are hell on earth.

    #2
    degas i also told u..all the Prophets before complained to God when they were put in tough situations..my Imam never did complain..He was so busy thanking God that he had no time to complain

    and there are no sects in shia religion ok

    Comment


      #3
      Sheraz,
      So what about other family members they are also rated above other messengers of God.. plus i wrote faction not sect in shias ... I know there are many extremests and moderate ones. But there are always some faith in sects which is predominately prevalent.. so am asking if this concept is held by most shias..
      Saints are fine for Heaven, but they are hell on earth.

      Comment


        #4
        A simple answer.

        Sheraz,
        How on earth can you actually state that the Ahl-Bait were better and superior than the Messengers of Allah SBWTA.

        The Messengers of Allah SWTA are the best of all humans. That is why they were hand picked and mentioned in the Qur'aan, time and time again.

        No family member of any Messenger is superior to the Messengers. Read the Qur'aan with tajweed and tawheed. Do not just browse.

        How would you compare Hazrat Maryam RA Mother of Hazrat Isa AS, to the Ahl-Bait?
        Please give us your view.

        Remember that one whole chapter in the Qur'aan has been named after the Mother of all Nations.

        Please think before you answer.

        The Prophet PBUH, clearly stated in the Qur'aan 'he is just another Messenger of Allah SWTA, just like all the Messengers who had come before him'.

        This would indicate that the Ahl-Bait are more superior than the Prophet PBUH himself, as he is like the other Prophets.

        Please don't make me take you to school.

        Comment


          #5
          So who made the judgement that since one prophet did not complain, he is better than the others?

          Did Allah mian say this? Or did we just decide it?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Degas:
            Sheraz told me in another thread that..

            "and we believe Prophet and His Family are better then the Prophets that came earlier"

            that was really new to me as I believe only Prophet Muhammad was in higher rutba than other messengers but Quran highly regards and states Allah's love for Christ, Moses Dawood. Yousaf etc .. Iam just asking my other shia brothers and sisters that if they have the same faith or a particular shia faction holds that..

            a simple yes or no is a perfectly acceptable answer.. plesae no heated or hatred filled answers...

            Salamunalaikum brother Degas,

            Yes, Sheraz is right.

            Islam was completed in the time of our Holy Prophet(saw). The 12 Imams had complete knowledge of a complete Shariah. The Messengers of Allah(swt), other than our Holy Prophet(saw), did not have the complete Islamic Shariah with them.

            If you would like any further references, I do have one, but I thought it would be too long to paste here and people might not be interested in reading it. However, if you would like I can do so. Please let me know.

            Wa Salam,

            Anila

            Comment


              #7

              Please do not paste any Web postings, Web Addresses or even A'Hadeeth on this issue.

              Let's just stick to the Qur'aan and only the Qur'aan.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by sholay:

                Please do not paste any Web postings, Web Addresses or even A'Hadeeth on this issue.

                Let's just stick to the Qur'aan and only the Qur'aan.


                Salamunalaikum brother,


                The best proof for my statement is the Holy Qur'an, which, narrating the life of the Prophet Abraham, says that, after giving him three tests (of life, wealth, and sons), Allah intended to make his rank more exalted. Since prophethood and the title of Khalil (Friend) did not apparently warrant a higher rank, the office of Imamate was the only office of a higher order to which even a Prophet of Allah could be entrusted. The Holy Qur'an says: "And when his Lord tried Abraham with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: 'Surely I will make you an Imam of men.' Abraham said: 'And of my offspring?' 'My covenant does not include the unjust,' He said." (2:124) This verse, which indicates the position of the Imamate, also proves that the rank of the Imamate is superior to that of prophethood, since the position of the Prophet Abraham was raised from prophethood to the Imamate.


                I apologize if this does not answer your questions correctly.

                Wa Salam,

                Anila


                Comment


                  #9
                  sholay

                  Prophet Mohummad did say that He is leaving behind two things. Quran and Ahlebait

                  we go to schools colleges unis..we have books, but we also have teachers..who make us understand these books

                  just use some logic here ok..i know its kinda hard for sunni brothers to do but hey just try

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by sholay:

                    Please do not paste any Web postings, Web Addresses or even A'Hadeeth on this issue.

                    Let's just stick to the Qur'aan and only the Qur'aan.


                    "There will be a man with full stomach, reclining on his pillow, who will hear
                    a command from me and say, "Let the judge between us (in this matter) be
                    Allah's Book: we obey whetever we find in it." [Know that] indeed, I have been
                    given the Book and, with it, that which is similar to it (the Sunnah)."
                    [Ahmad, Aboo Daawood, Saheeh ul-Jaami`]


                    ------------------
                    You (Muslims) are the best nation ever raised among the mankind: (because) you
                    advocate righteousness and FORBID EVIL, and you believe in (one) GOD (ALLAH).
                    (Sura: Alay-Imran; Ayat:110)
                    ========================
                    ***Sitaaron Pay Jo Daltay Hain Kamand!***
                    _______________________
                    Shaheen=An Eagle or A Flacon!
                    (And yes it's a MALE Shaheen ;-)
                    The ORIGINAL Falcon -
                    Tu Tundi-e-Baad-e-Mukhaalif say na ghabra ay Uqaab
                    Yeh tau chaltee hai tujhay OoNcha urRaanay kay liye

                    Comment


                      #11

                      All the Messengers including the final Seal PBUH, came with one universal message:

                      TAWHEED.

                      Every Messenger had an order and some had scriptures, which were the complete Shar'iah for there people at the time.

                      The Imaams of any nation did not and never will have the same status as any Messenger of Allah SWTA.

                      Every Messenger was mortal and a servant of Allah SWTA.

                      Every Messenger was given Prophethood, Wisdom and judgement.

                      Every Messenger brought his Message in the language of his people.

                      Allah SWTA had covenant with all the Messengers.

                      All the Messengers form an Ummah on whom Allah SWTA has bestowed His bounties.

                      There is a Messenger for every Ummah.

                      MUSLIMS BELIEVE IN ALL THE MESSENGERS AND MAKE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN THEM.

                      Comment


                        #12

                        Highheelz,

                        And when his Lord tried Abraham with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: 'Surely I will make you an Imam of men.' Abraham said: 'And of my offspring?' 'My covenant does not include the unjust,' He said." (2:124) This verse, which indicates the position of the Imamate, also proves that the rank of the Imamate is superior to that of prophethood, since the position of the Prophet Abraham was raised from prophethood to the Imamate.


                        In ayat 122-152, it is explained that the Isrealites would cease to be the leaders of mankind, since they have completely ignored Al-Din, the code of life followed and enjoined by their illustious forefathers and because they have now rejected to believe in and follow the final message of guidance of the Qur'aan.

                        Though the Israelites had been the recipients of Allah's favour for a fairly long time., the time had come to discharge them of the responsibility of leadership of mankind as they had proved to be no longer fit to carry out that trust on account of their own persistent wrongdoings. This resposibility was to be shifted from them to the Muslim Ummah. As they were to be the most justly balanced community, and all this was to be in accordance with the fulfillment of Allah's covenant with Prophet Ibraheem AS. This covenant is described in ayat 124-129.

                        This surah opens with Alif, Lam, Mim and then declares that it is a Divine Revelation and that there is no doubt about this.

                        When we mention any Surah or Ayat, please also explain the context and synopsis of contents.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by sholay:

                          Highheelz,

                          And when his Lord tried Abraham with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: 'Surely I will make you an Imam of men.' Abraham said: 'And of my offspring?' 'My covenant does not include the unjust,' He said." (2:124) This verse, which indicates the position of the Imamate, also proves that the rank of the Imamate is superior to that of prophethood, since the position of the Prophet Abraham was raised from prophethood to the Imamate.


                          In ayat 122-152, it is explained that the Isrealites would cease to be the leaders of mankind, since they have completely ignored Al-Din, the code of life followed and enjoined by their illustious forefathers and because they have now rejected to believe in and follow the final message of guidance of the Qur'aan.

                          Though the Israelites had been the recipients of Allah's favour for a fairly long time., the time had come to discharge them of the responsibility of leadership of mankind as they had proved to be no longer fit to carry out that trust on account of their own persistent wrongdoings. This resposibility was to be shifted from them to the Muslim Ummah. As they were to be the most justly balanced community, and all this was to be in accordance with the fulfillment of Allah's covenant with Prophet Ibraheem AS. This covenant is described in ayat 124-129.

                          This surah opens with Alif, Lam, Mim and then declares that it is a Divine Revelation and that there is no doubt about this.

                          When we mention any Surah or Ayat, please also explain the context and synopsis of contents.
                          Sholay,

                          Yet again you are coming-up with stuff that does not make sense. Its very clear in the ayat that Allah has granted Imamate to the zuriyat of Hadrath Ibrahim (as), yet you are trying to suggest that it was taken away!!!!

                          I am sorry bro, but u cant twist the meaning of the quran according to your wishes.

                          "And those who oppress shall see what kind of outcome overturns them." [26:227] Al-Quran

                          Comment


                            #14

                            Pagluu,

                            Let's get a few facts clear. I have never twisted any ayats in the Qur'aan and never will attempt, this iI will leave for the likes of you.

                            Furthermore, read the Qur'aan with tajweed and tawheed.

                            When you state and ayat from the Qur'aan, please give the context and contents as well.

                            For the record Imaama, which is the actual word used in arabic in this ayat, means Leader. Therefore, Leader and Messenger are totally different.

                            Messenger is superior, as not anyone can become a Messenger, but anyone can become a Leader.

                            Why was the Prophet PBUH always refered to as the Messenger.

                            So please do not preach to me about the Qur'aan.

                            Each time you mention an ayat, I will in turn ask your explanation on the context and content. And you can do the same with me as well.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Shia Brothers......
                              You have been crying for hundreds of years and can't prove that Hadrat Ali(Radi Allah an hu) deserved Caliphsip before Three Great Sahabas...caz he was superior than others
                              and you are comparing them with Prophets
                              You Shias can't climb on the roof of your house...and talk about climbing K-2 mountain
                              Some Shias put Hadrat Ali(Radi Allah an hu) before Prophet(Salla Allah hu Alaiha Wasallam)himself, and some think he shared Prophethood
                              what a fun.....what a logic
                              Deep you go more interesting things you find in this sect...well said in Urdu
                              IBTADAYE ISHQ HAI ROTA HAI KEYA
                              AAGAY AAGAY DAKHEYE HOTA HAI KEYA

                              Comment

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