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How much Hadrat Ali loved.......Three Caliphs

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    How much Hadrat Ali loved.......Three Caliphs

    This answer is Especially for Bro Imtiazdgk.....and all other brothers who underestimate the greatness of Hadrat Ali(Radi Allah an hu) or the greatness of Thre Caliphs-ur-Rashidoon
    After Hadrat Fatima(Radi Allah an ha) passed away Hadrat Ali made three more marriages and had four more sons....listed below
    Second wife.....Laila, from Laila he had a son....guess what Hadrat Ali kept his name Abu-Bakr......

    Third wife...Umm-e-Habiba.....again Allah gave Hadrat Ali(radi Allah an hu) a son and this time.....the son was called Umar

    Fourth wife...Umm-ul-Baneen....two sons from that wife....Guess what the big one was called Usman and the younger one was called Abbas.....

    Tell me if we have a baby boy in our families..will we call him Yazeed(responsibal for the Karbla tragedy) no ..never caz we hate yazeed...we will try to choose the best possible name available on the earth, that is our case......Then how come somebody like Hadrat Ali(Radi Allah an hu) would call his sons on the names of people who he considered hi enemies(according to Shia belief)......
    Why Shias just talk about Hadrat Abbas(one son out of these four) why don't they talk about other sons???? a question.....

    #2
    Originally posted by wasir:
    This answer is Especially for Bro Imtiazdgk.....and all other brothers who underestimate the greatness of Hadrat Ali(Radi Allah an hu) or the greatness of Thre Caliphs-ur-Rashidoon
    After Hadrat Fatima(Radi Allah an ha) passed away Hadrat Ali made three more marriages and had four more sons....listed below
    Second wife.....Laila, from Laila he had a son....guess what Hadrat Ali kept his name Abu-Bakr......

    Third wife...Umm-e-Habiba.....again Allah gave Hadrat Ali(radi Allah an hu) a son and this time.....the son was called Umar

    Fourth wife...Umm-ul-Baneen....two sons from that wife....Guess what the big one was called Usman and the younger one was called Abbas.....

    Tell me if we have a baby boy in our families..will we call him Yazeed(responsibal for the Karbla tragedy) no ..never caz we hate yazeed...we will try to choose the best possible name available on the earth, that is our case......Then how come somebody like Hadrat Ali(Radi Allah an hu) would call his sons on the names of people who he considered hi enemies(according to Shia belief)......
    Why Shias just talk about Hadrat Abbas(one son out of these four) why don't they talk about other sons???? a question.....
    Good try Wasir bro. This is a very queerish argument. This has been discussed here before. Having a name does not prove a thing. ALthough, since you have ignored the whole history and chain of events and have posted a question here, its wajib upon me to answer.

    Ab sunneyeh. Hadrath Ali (as) was killed by "Abdur Rahman Ibn-e-muljim". Now what was his name??? Abdur Rahman.....right!

    Now Imam Ali's son, the 2nd holy Imam, Imam Hasan (as) had a son called Abdur Rahman.

    4th Imam, Imam Zainul Abidin(as) had a son called Abdur Rahman too. Does it prove Abdur Rahman's Innocence ??? Does it prove that the son and grandson fo Imam Ali (as) "loved " Ibn-e-muljim maloon???

    And what exactly do you mean by that we talk about Hadrath Abbas (as) and no one else??? How do you know?
    Have you had a little look at any of our history books before passing any judgements???

    If by any chance you go to Damascus then you can see the shrine of "Ibn-e-Yazid", the son of yazid. He refused to sit on the takhat-e-muslimeen because he said that "I cant sit on a place which has the blood of son of the holy prophet over it". He was then poisened by his own family and Marwaan. Even today shrine is filled with shias coming from all over the world since he was a mohabb-e-nabbi wa Ahlul Bayt (as).

    No matter whose son or daughter they were. We love anyone who loved our great prophet (pbuh) and his family (as).



    [This message has been edited by Pathan Bhai (edited May 24, 2001).]

    Comment


      #3
      another shia sunni debate.

      children are being slaughtered in Palestine and you carry on with your petty arguments. Facts come from Quran and Sunnah only.

      Keep the people of Palestine in your Duas inshallah

      Comment


        #4
        My question is still there....if according to Shias...Hadrat Ali(Radi Allah An hu) was in so much hate with these three Caliphs....then why would he call his sons with their names(according to some Shias these caliphs are Munafiqs)...while there wasn't any pressure on him to keep these names...he could choose any other names......
        that is actually a smack on the face of those who are trying to insult these big personalities.......
        Hadrat Ali is the starter of Wilayat.....everything what he did in his life has left bulks of knowledge for other Awliyas till the day of judgement.....
        How come he would make a mistake calling his sons with these names....without any disorder.....all in a sequence......
        I have never seen any muslim calling their children Yazeed...caz we hate him.....

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by wasir:
          My question is still there....if according to Shias...Hadrat Ali(Radi Allah An hu) was in so much hate with these three Caliphs....then why would he call his sons with their names(according to some Shias these caliphs are Munafiqs)...while there wasn't any pressure on him to keep these names...he could choose any other names......
          that is actually a smack on the face of those who are trying to insult these big personalities.......
          Hadrat Ali is the starter of Wilayat.....everything what he did in his life has left bulks of knowledge for other Awliyas till the day of judgement.....
          How come he would make a mistake calling his sons with these names....without any disorder.....all in a sequence......
          I have never seen any muslim calling their children Yazeed...caz we hate him.....

          It is sad that you did not get my point in the first reply.

          I just proved it to you above that having to name your children on someone does not prove anything.
          You see, me and you can never be compared to nabbi or ambiyas or the Imams. These were people with amazing and extra ordinary Akhlaaq.

          It was Imam Hussein (as) who saw his whole fmaily get killed by the army of Omar ibne Saad, they killed everyone in the worst possible manner, from 18 year old prophet muhammad look alike Akbar to 20 year old brother's nishaani Qasim. They did not spare even the 6 month old Asghar, yet when Shimir maloon was riding on Imam's chest, the great Imam was still reminding shimir and the rest that they could be forgiven if they spared the holy Imam.

          They were here to guide man kind. If "anyone" hurt them or conficicated their haq then they still would not hate them since its their duty from allah to guide EVERYONE no matter what. Whoever disobeyed or hurt them, then they shall be liable for an answer to ALlah the almighty.

          Read my post above more carefully. I dont wish to repeat things over and over.

          For more insight on the characters of the khalifas please read history and Quran. I would recommend you to get to a satisfying conclusion yourself.

          Peace be upon Perophet Muhammad and his progney.
          wasalam

          [This message has been edited by Pathan Bhai (edited May 24, 2001).]

          Comment


            #6
            People what i dont understand is, there was no sectarinism as Shia's and Sunni's during our Prophets (PBUH) time. Shia's and Sunni's were created on political motivation, both Shia's and Sunni's come from the same roots, the divide was never religious in the first place, though over centuries it has taken such a face attributed to the ignorance and indulgance against muslim brotherhood by our own forefathers.

            We are still divided over something that we cannot change, whats done is done, no use crying over spilt milk. Basically there are not supposed to be religious differences between the 2 sects if the matter is traced back to its religious roots. However political motivation does distort everything, which i believe has been the unique cause for the downfall of the Islamic era, take a look at our history ... the Ummayads, Ayyubids, Abbassids, Fatimids, etc ... all those sects were formed on political basis not religious bases. And the consequences are well known to all of us.

            Islam was complete, during our Prophet (PBUH) time, and its definitive, after that there was nothing new in Islam, so why a religious divide, there were no Shia and Sunni sects till after his demise. Isnt this enough to say we shouldnt be dividing over religion, and if we do than we do not deserve to be muslims, because none of that was a practice that was in Islam.

            Why are both Shia's and Sunnis' so blind to realise the simple truth, and why cant they stop twisting our religion in political upheavals and motivations.

            That is whats wrong with us, the day we are able to sort it out we will be standing again.


            ------------------
            Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'

            Comment


              #7
              Dear Bro...
              I have read your answers carefully.........my point is not similar names....my point is Nisbat behind these names.......as you gave exaple of the resemblance of the names of the killer and the name of the son of imam Hussain.........the difference is that in Imam Hussain case there wasn't any NISBAT, citation involved.....While in the names of the sons of Hadrat Ali's(radi Allah an hu) sons I am talking about the Nisbat, look how much care he has shown while choosing their names....Umar could be kept before Abu-Bakr or Usman could be kept before Umar or Abu Bakr.....but no.....the leader of all 14 Silsilas......king of Wilayat.....teacher of spirituality.....didn't disturb the order
              don't try to say that it was just a coincidance.......

              Originally posted by Pathan Bhai:

              It is sad that you did not get my point in the first reply.

              I just proved it to you above that having to name your children on someone does not prove anything.
              You see, me and you can never be compared to nabbi or ambiyas or the Imams. These were people with amazing and extra ordinary Akhlaaq.

              It was Imam Hussein (as) who saw his whole fmaily get killed by the army of Omar ibne Saad, they killed everyone in the worst possible manner, from 18 year old prophet muhammad look alike Akbar to 20 year old brother's nishaani Qasim. They did not spare even the 6 month old Asghar, yet when Shimir maloon was riding on Imam's chest, the great Imam was still reminding shimir and the rest that they could be forgiven if they spared the holy Imam.

              They were here to guide man kind. If "anyone" hurt them or conficicated their haq then they still would not hate them since its their duty from allah to guide EVERYONE no matter what. Whoever disobeyed or hurt them, then they shall be liable for an answer to ALlah the almighty.

              Read my post above more carefully. I dont wish to repeat things over and over.

              For more insight on the characters of the khalifas please read history and Quran. I would recommend you to get to a satisfying conclusion yourself.

              Peace be upon Perophet Muhammad and his progney.
              wasalam

              [This message has been edited by Pathan Bhai (edited May 24, 2001).]

              Comment


                #8
                Brother! I am tired of typing now.
                I may write something tommaro.
                May be some other history student might be able to enlighten you.
                wasalam

                Comment


                  #9
                  DEAR BROTHER WASIR,,,
                  I DID NOT FIND THESE NAME YOU GIVEN , I DONT KNOW WHERE YOU GETTING THIS INFORMATIONS , I WILL SUGGEST YOU PLEASE FIRST STUDY THAT PERSON EWHO YOU ARE CONSULTING TOO..........
                  I THINK WE ALL ARE LISTENING THIS FIRST TIME THAT HAZARATY ALI,S SONS HAD THESE NAMES.....
                  VERY STRANGE .........
                  ANYHOW WHAT CAN I SAY FOR YOU I THINK YOU ARE COLUMBS OF THIS AGE

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Salams,

                    Well Sunni ppl can give as much details and facts of history But the ppl believing in Shia faith are just not going to acknowledge.

                    Its not the Shia faith thatís wrong and it was never meant to be wrong. Its ppl who follow it have turned it around 180 degrees.
                    Shia Faith is just like Christianity. It came after the prophets were done preaching their message to the ppl.

                    The question was why do shia people dont name their kids Aisha, Usman, Umer, Abu-Bakr. Well thats caz these are the people who wer against them since the start. I am not talking about they wer against Hazret Ali, but they wer and so was hazret ali against those ppl who wanted hazret ali to be the leader in islam after Prophet Mohammad'd death as he was the son-in-law of Prophet Mohammad.

                    Well i know this much that according to Shia faith I am a Non Muslim becase I dont give Hazret Ali the same status that they give and if anyone who dont believe in Hazret Ali as.."Maulla Ali" is a non muslim.

                    Another thing I wanted to point out was that there is Not too much difference in the Beliefs of Shia and Ahmedi Faith.
                    They both have a leader in Islam which they claim is if not equal but nearly as equal to Prophet Mohammad.

                    ....


                    Comment


                      #11
                      .

                      [This message has been edited by Pagluu (edited May 24, 2001).]
                      "And those who oppress shall see what kind of outcome overturns them." [26:227] Al-Quran

                      Comment


                        #12
                        It is hilarious how you assume the relationship between Imam Ali (as) and the first three caliphas.

                        You all have never understood the meaning of Allah's (swt) chosen imam so you easily equate the Imam's (as) nobility and kindness for love for the first 3.

                        Let's look at how Imam Ali (as) has described the first 3 caliphs and how they seated themselves in the robe of the caliphate. Sermon 3 from Najhul Balagah :-

                        Beware! By Allah the son of Abu Quhafah (Abu Bakr)(2) dressed himself with it (the caliphate) and he certainly knew that my position in relation to it was the same as the position of the axis in relation to the hand-mill. The flood water flows down from me and the bird cannot fly upto me. I put a curtain against the caliphate and kept myself detached from it.

                        Then I began to think whether I should assault or endure calmly the blinding darkness of tribulations wherein the grown up are made feeble and the young grow old and the true believer acts under strain till he meets Allah (on his death). I found that endurance thereon was wiser. So I adopted patience although there was pricking in the eye and suffocation (of mortification) in the throat. I watched the plundering of my inheritance till the first one went his way but handed over the Caliphate to Ibn al-Khattab after himself.

                        (Then he quoted al-A`sha's verse).

                        My days are now passed on the camel's back (in difficulty) while there were days (of ease) when I enjoyed the company of Jabir's brother Hayyan.(3)

                        It is strange that during his lifetime he wished to be released from the caliphate but he confirmed it for the other one (UMAR) after his death. No doubt these two shared its udders strictly among themselves. This one put the Caliphate in a tough enclosure where the utterance was haughty and the touch was rough.

                        Mistakes were in plenty and so also the excuses therefore. One in contact with it was like the rider of an unruly camel. If he pulled up its rein the very nostril would be slit, but if he let it loose he would be thrown. Consequently, by Allah people got involved in recklessness, wickedness, unsteadiness and deviation.

                        Nevertheless, I remained patient despite length of period and stiffness of trial, till when he went his way (of death) he (UMAR) put the matter (of Caliphate) in a group(4) and regarded me to be one of them.

                        But good Heavens! what had I to do with this "consultation"? Where was any doubt about me with regard to the first of them that I was now considered akin to these ones? But I remained low when they were low and flew high when they flew high. One of them turned against me because of his hatred and the other got inclined the other way due to his in-law relationship and this thing and that thing, till the third man of these people stood up with heaving breasts between his dung and fodder.

                        With him his children of his grand-father, (Umayyah) also stood up swallowing up Allah's wealth(5) like a camel devouring the foliage of spring, till his rope broke down, his actions finished him and his gluttony brought him down prostrate.

                        ****** Now draw your own conclusions.

                        The imam (as) helped and assisted the first 3 caliphs for the sake of Islam. Knowing that the first 3 were incompetent but had the support of the majority (who fell into the hands of greed and vice), Imam Ali (as) took the noble cause of saving Islam whenever he could by assisting and preventing Baker, Umar, and Usmam from committing mistakes.

                        All at the expense of his own right which was bestowed upon him by Allah (swt) and his holy prophet (pbuh).

                        Such was the character of Imam Ali (as) and the other 11 holy imams (as).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          it boils down to a fundamental Q.... prophets inheritence.... by studying the Quran we can see that there is no such thing otherwise Noahs son would not have been drown....

                          All the sahaba r holy 2 us.... they were the prophets companions and got their education from him..... can anyone ever match that....
                          we have no right to criticize the sahaba... esp if u think how someone will react if u talk bad about his ancestors (even if they were BAD)....these are prophets companions we are talking about.... why would the prophet give his not one but two daughters to Usman, why would he marry Abu-Bakers daughter.... would u marry into family of "BAD" ppl.... and to think that prophet was so naive...!!!!!

                          This rift is a political rift created after the prophets death... i am sure that persians and jews (both of whom had suffered) wanted to take revenge and sowed the seeds of mistrust......

                          Only Allah knows the truth.....

                          Comment


                            #14
                            PD,

                            Tell me that you are joking or do you really believe that prophets of Allah (swt) do not have inheritance ?

                            This was the excuse Abu Baker used to take away Fadak from the holy Lady of Light, Fatima Zehra by presenting some sham hadith that the prophet (pbuh) supposedly said but which no one else besides Abu Baker ever heard off. So much so that the Lion of Allah (swt), Imam Ali (as) along with the chief youths of paradise, Imam Hasan and Hussain (as) testified that the prophet (pbuh) left Fadak to Fatima (as) but their testimony was rejected by Abu Baker.

                            Are you adopting Baker's position ?

                            You say the Qur'an does not provide prophets (pbut) with inheritance. You have a chance now to retract your statement. Or would you like proof from the Qur'an.

                            And as I said earlier, you all have no concept of imamate. An imam does not vie for political power, such as caliphate, which is a worldly position and which was jostled for by the first 3. An imam is one appointed by Allah (swt) to lead the holy apostle's (pbuh) ummah along the teachings of the Qur'an and the sunnah.

                            But what would you know. You follow the one who spoke ill of the holy prophet (pbuh) upon his time of death and declared "The Qur'an is sufficient for us".

                            Being the Master of innovation, he voided the holy apostle's saying "I am leaving you two weighty things - the Qur'an and my ahl bait. Follow them closely for these two will not separate from each other until they reach the fountains of kauser".

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by pukka desi:
                              it boils down to a fundamental Q.... prophets inheritence.... by studying the Quran we can see that there is no such thing otherwise Noahs son would not have been drown....

                              Just shows how poor your knowledge of Quran is. Please refrian from kaing such a false remarks before studying.
                              I'd like to give some ayats here so no one gets misguided by your silly message.

                              [al-Anbiya' 21:72-73] And We gave him Ishaq and Yaqoub, a son's son, and We made (them) all good. And We made them Imams who guided (people) by Our command, and We revealed to them the doing of good and the keeping up of prayer and the giving of the alms, and Us (alone) did they serve;

                              [an-Naml 27:15-16] And certainly We gave knowledge to Dawood and Sulaiman, and they both said: Praise be to Allah, Who has made us to excel many of His believing servants.
                              And Sulaiman was Dawood's heir, and he said: O men! we have been taught the language of birds, and we have been given all things; most surely this is manifest grace.

                              [Yusuf 12:6] And thus will your Lord choose you and teach you the interpretation of sayings and make His favor complete to you and to the children of Yaqoub, as He made it complete before to your fathers, Ibrahim and Ishaq; surely your Lord is Knowing, Wise.

                              [an-Nisa' 4:54] Or do they envy the people for what Allah has given them of His grace? But indeed We have given to Ibrahim's children the Book and the wisdom, and We have given them a grand kingdom.

                              How many more do you want buddy?.
                              And Allah clearly said that the son of Noah did zulm on himself and thus was out of Hazrath Noah's Aal (family). If its still unclear, i can write in details on your wish.

                              Sidq-e-Khalil bhi hay ishqe sabr-e-Husayn bhi hay ishq
                              Mārika-e-wujud main Badr-o-Hunayn bhi hay ishq
                              -Iqbal

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