Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Saved Sect. Who are They?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    The Saved Sect. Who are They?

    As we all know that among all 73 Sects in Islam, all will enter hell except one sect. It has been known by the sayings of the Prophet Mohammed Pbuh and Companions and scholars who the Saved Sect will be, the sect that will enter Paradise.

    Ofcourse all of the Sects in Islam agree with the Quran and Sunnah. The properties of People of the Saved Sect will be that they will follow the Quran and Sunnah According to the Understandings of the Companions of Prophet Mohammed pbuh and Not according to the understandings of their own self or their own imams or scholars.


    Understanding of Quran and Sunnah according to the Understanding of the Companions is important because they were who saw and sat and talked and learnt from the Prophet Mohammed pbuh directly. And also because of several Hadeeth telling the importance of following Prophet Mohammed pbuh and his Khulafa-Rashdeen ( Abu Bakr, Umer, Othman and Ali ( may Allah be pleased with them all )) and also other Companions ( may Allah be pleased with them All ).

    Quran and Sunnah according to the Understanding of Companions Inshallah.

    ------------------
    And with Allaah lies all success and may Allaah send prayers and salutations upon our Prophet (sal-Allaahu
    `alayhe wa sallam) and his family and his companions.

    #2
    You will know it on judgement day. The IMAM we follow ALLAH IS GONING TO SEND THE LAST IMAM MEHDI(A.S)TO GUIDE PEOPLE ON RIGHT PATH BEFORE JUDGMENT DAY. INSHALLAH HE WILL COME SOON.

    Comment


      #3
      Brother where did Holy Prophet say to follow his companions... yeah he asked to follow Hazrat Ali, who was appointed by him by the will of Allah, Please give me the source where we have to follow the companions.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Insaniyat:
        Brother where did Holy Prophet say to follow his companions... yeah he asked to follow Hazrat Ali, who was appointed by him by the will of Allah, Please give me the source where we have to follow the companions.

        Would you believe those sources? I think not.

        Comment


          #5

          Insaniyat my friend,

          I do not usually take the bait, when it comes to sect wars and ludicrous requests. I try to live my life as the best Muslim I can be without being sectarianist. However, I will make an exception in this case and give you some facts.

          You are obviously refering to the speech at Ghaidur Khuum concerning the Imaamat. The message was an acknowledgement of Hazrat Ali's merit rather than a definite political appointment.

          A number of questions really do need answering in order to get the answer.

          It is a widely accepted universal fact that among the grown ups, Hazrat Abu Bakr, among the youngsters,Hazrat Ali and among the women, Hazrat Khadija were the first to embrace Islam.

          In addition Hazrat Abu Bakr placed his entire wealth at the disposal of the Holy Prophet PBUH, and also included freeing Hazrat Bilaal, who gave the first Azaan.

          Hazrat Abu Bakr is also buried next to the Holy Prophet PBUH. Hazrat Abu Bakr led prayers, 17 times during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet PBUH.

          I can go on and on with the virtues of all the companions (Sahaaba)giving so much to Islam, but I'm sure you can get my drift in how much trust the Holy Prophet PBUH had in his companions.

          Do not forget that Hazrat Ali was also a Sahaaba.But I will spare you with the history for the time being.

          In the Qur'aan, Allah SWTA, tells us that we could never compare with the sacrifice that the companions have given to the cause of Islam. This in itself is the answer. But, hey, some people cannot see it, even when it's looking them in the face.

          Hazrat Ali gave alleigance to all the Caliphs prior to him, including the marriage of his daughter to Hazrat Umar.

          If Hazrat Ali didn't have a problem with the caliphate then why do we!

          More importantly, read into the following sentences and search.

          If the Holy Prophet PBUH, could predict events of the future with the will of Allah, travel the seven heavens with the will of Allah and complete the final scriptures with the will of Allah, then surely he was able to chose his closest companions, with the will of Allah SWTA and could of predicted the traitorship of the Sahaaba for the Caliphate, as are the allegations!

          The companions were hand picked by Allah SWTA.

          The equation is as follows:

          If the Holy Prophet PBUH made a mistake in choosing the companions, then the Holy Prophet PBUH made a mistake in marrying the daughters of the companions who are the mothers of the believers as categorically stated in the Qur'AAN. Hazrat Jibraeel, made a mistake in revealing the Qur'aan on behalf of Allah SWTA, and ultimately Allah SWTA made a mistake in choosing the final seal of messengers! Which means Allah SWTA is not faultless afterall. La Hola Wala Quwat Illa Billa Hil Aleem Yil Azeem.

          This can never ever happen!


          Comment


            #6

            Originally posted by sholay:


            The equation is as follows:

            If the Holy Prophet PBUH made a mistake in choosing the companions, then the Holy Prophet PBUH made a mistake in marrying the daughters of the companions who are the mothers of the believers as categorically stated in the Qur'AAN. Hazrat Jibraeel, made a mistake in revealing the Qur'aan on behalf of Allah SWTA, and ultimately Allah SWTA made a mistake in choosing the final seal of messengers! Which means Allah SWTA is not faultless afterall. La Hola Wala Quwat Illa Billa Hil Aleem Yil Azeem.

            This can never ever happen!

            Holy prophet had compains who were hypocrates are you saying that Allah has hand picked them????/ where in the Qurandoes it says that??????
            We beleive in IMAMANT no caliph As IMAM ALI DID and AS ALLAH is gonna send IMAM Mehdi(A.S) not some caliph before judgment day but IMAM Medhi(A.S) is the from the family of Rasool(R.A).

            Comment


              #7
              Farhina

              I really don't want to get into a debate where I need to provide fact after fact to you, and you still won't accept.

              Just answer the following questions please, so that I may then know your depth of knowledge for further debates.

              Do you accept the Sahaaba at all.

              Do you accept any of the caliphates except Hazrat Ali.

              Do you class all the Holy Prophets Wives as the Ahl Bayt and

              Is Imaam Mehdi still alive in hibernation.

              Once I receive your answers, I will then respond.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by sholay:
                Farhina

                .

                Do you accept the Sahaaba at all.YES I do.

                Do you accept any of the caliphates except Hazrat Ali. I do not beleive in Caliphates I beleive in Imamant only.

                Do you class all the Holy Prophets Wives as the Ahl Bayt nly first wife of Prophet is AHL BAYT.

                Is Imaam Mehdi still alive in hibernation.
                Yes Indeed he is Still alive and is hidden by ALLAH on earth.


                Once I receive your answers, I will then respond.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by sholay:
                  Farhina

                  I really don't want to get into a debate where I need to provide fact after fact to you, and you still won't accept.

                  Just answer the following questions please, so that I may then know your depth of knowledge for further debates.

                  Do you accept the Sahaaba at all.

                  Do you accept any of the caliphates except Hazrat Ali.

                  Do you class all the Holy Prophets Wives as the Ahl Bayt and

                  Is Imaam Mehdi still alive in hibernation.

                  Once I receive your answers, I will then respond.
                  thing is..if these sahabas had Prophets company does not make them good muslims or good humans

                  ofcourse there were some good sahabas like Hazrat Salman Farsi


                  ayesha brought soldiers against Imam Ali..what do u say about that? no we dont consider these ladies to be Ahle bait

                  Imam Mehdi will come..shia believe that he is in hibernation and will come when God wants..sunni believe that he is not born yet..but do believe in him

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Dear Sheraz and Farhina

                    I will now take you to class.

                    First and foremost I now have an idea of your level and knowledge and secondly, please do not be offended or feel incompetent once I pose these facts to you. I will be grateful for a comprehensive response.

                    All The wives of the Holy Prophet are called the mothers of the believers, in the Qur'aan and are like no other women. If they do a good deed, then there reward will be doubled and if they commit a bad deed, then there punishment will be doubled. As stated in the Qur'aan. For you to not accept them constitutes Kufr. No Apologies.

                    If Imaam Mehdi is in hibernation than, he is older than the oldest living human, Hazrat Nuh AS who was a prophet aged 950 years and therefore constitutes authority over Imaams, as the Qur'aan testifies to this.

                    Hazrat Aisha and Hazrat Ali did clash, but it was orchestrated by Muawiya, at the time of Hazrat Usmans martyrdom. Obviously, neither party realised this, therefore the clash took place just as a settlement over the dispute was about to be agreed. It is at this clash Zubair was martyred on the way back from to Makkah, as Hazrat Ali had reminded Zubair of a prophecy of the prophet and so Zubair retreated from the battlefield. When Zubairs head was bought to Hazrat Ali by a Sabaite for a reward he said' Give the assassin of Zubair the tidings of Hell'.

                    After the forces of Hazrat Aisha were defeated, Hazrat Ali himself called upon the reverand lady for enquiring about her health. She was respectfully sent back to Medina escorted by noble ladies and Hazrat Ali in person saw her off for a considerable distance.

                    The existence of numerous sects, the majority of which are deviant, is a predetermined fact referred to in the Glorious Qur'an:

                    And if your Lord [Allah] had so willed, He could have made mankind a single unified community, but they will not cease to dispute and differ; except those upon whom your Lord has bestowed His mercy. And for this did He create them, and the word of your Lord will be fulfilled: I will fill Hell with jinns and men altogether. (11-118, 119)

                    Shi'ism originated in the first century of Islam as an exaggerated affection for and partisanship of Ahlu-l-Bayt (the family and descendants of the Prophet Muhammad [Sall-Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam]). Later on, it developed into a set of misbeliefs and erroneous concepts which ultimately constituted a new religion; a religion other than that which was taught by the Prophet Muhammad (Sall-Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam), and by his Companions after him.

                    Sometimes the Shi'ites claim to have a Qur'an other than the one which is unanimously recognized by all Muslims throughout the history of Islam. Furthermore, they reject the authentic compilations of the sacred traditions, such as those of the two great imams Al-Bukhari and Muslim. They consider all but a few of the Companions of the Prophet Muhammad to be apostates, while they elevate their Imams to a position comparable to that of the gods of ancient mythology.

                    In a treatise entitled Tuhfatul-Awaam Maqbool, published recently, there appeared an invocation endorsed by six of the most respected contemporary Shi'ite imams including Khomeini and Shariat-Madari. In that invocation, Abu Bakr and `Umar, may Allah be pleased with them, are accused of altering the Qur'an. Those two illustrious caliphs, along with their two daughters, who were the noble and pure wives of the Prophet (Sall-Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam) were cursed and reviled by the Shi'ites of today.

                    Khomeini, in his book Al-Hukoomatul-lslamiyyah (the Islamic government), claims that the Twelve Imams are infallible, and he raises them to a level above the heavenly angels and the commissioned Prophets of Allah; he stresses: "Certainly, the Imam commands a noble station and lofty position; a creative vicegerency to whose rule and power submit the very atoms of all creation [!] And an essential tenet of our Shi'ite sect is that the Imams have a position which is reached neither by the angels [in the highest heaven] nor by any commissioned messenger of God." He further stated: "The teachings and directives of the Imams are just like those of the Qur'an, it is compulsory on one to follow them and carry them out."

                    In short, Khomeini and his fellow clergymen adhere to all of the perverse tenets of the Shi'ite faith as laid out in detail in Al-Kaafi. Khomeini clearly admits this in his book Al-Huloomatul-islamiah: "Do you think that it is enough for us, with respect to-our religion, to collect its rulings and directives in Al-Kaafi, then put it on a shelf and neglect it?"

                    Al-Khutoot Al-'Areedah, provides some details from Al-Kaafi, a foundation stone of the Shi'ite religion, so that the naive good-hearted Muslims may have a second thought before cherishing the idea that the Shi'ites of today are different from those of the past.

                    The jurisprudence of the Sunnis differs from that of the Shi'ites even in the fundamentals upon which the law is based. Yet unless and until the fundamentals are understood and endorsed by both parties, and until there is a favorable response to this from the religious institutions of both sides, it would be useless to waste time dealing with issues of a minor or secondary nature.

                    In fact, it is not merely in the fundamentals of jurisprudence that there are differences, but also, and more importantly, in the fundamental articles of faith of each party, even in their deepest roots and origins.

                    The Qur'an should be the comprehensive reference for both Sunnis and Shi'ites, and a means of bringing about unity and mutual understanding, but it has been misinterpreted by the Shi'ites and given a meaning other than that which was understood by the noble Companions who received it directly from the Prophet, and other than that which was understood by the Imams of Islam who received it from the very generation amongst whom the Qur'an descended by way of Divine Revelation.

                    One of the most famous and respected Shi'ite scholars, from Najaf, Mirza Husain bin Muhammad Taqi An-Nawari At-Tabarsi, wrote in 1292 A.H. the book Faslul-Khitaab fee Ithbatti Tahreefi Kitaab Rabbil-Arbaab (The Decisive Say on the Proof of Alteration of the Book of the Lord of Lords). In this book he compiled hundreds of texts written by Shi'ite scholars in different eras alleging that the Qur'an has been tampered with, that there have been both additions to it and omissions from it.

                    At-Tabarsi's book was printed in Iran, in 1298 A.H., and its appearance attracted much attention, frustrating the intention of certain Shi'ites that their doubts about the authenticity of the Qur'an should be restricted to the elite of religious scholars and personalities. They preferred that these allegations not be brought together in a single volume, and widely disseminated, as it could be used as a proof against them by their opponents. When the scholars made public their criticism, At-Tabarsi responded with another book entitled Raddu ba'dush-Shubahaati `an Faslil-Khitaabi fee Ithbatti Tahreefi Kitaabi Rabbil-Arbaab (Refutation of Some Specious Arguments Regarding the Decisive Say on the Proof of Alteration of the Book of the Lord of the Lords). He wrote this defense of his original book two years before his death. In order to show their appreciation of his contribution to the attempt to prove that the Qur'an had been altered, the Shi'ites buried him in one of their most prominent religious shrines, at Najaf.

                    Among the proofs offered by At-Tabarsi in his attempt to show that the Qur'an had been altered, was a quotation from what the Shi'ites consider to be a missing part of the Qur'an, called by them Suratul-Wilaayah. It mentions the granting of wilaayah (sovereignty) to `Ali as follows: "O believers, believe in the Prophet and the wali, the two whom We sent to guide you to the straight path..."[suratul-Wilayyah]

                    O' you who believe, believe in the Prophet and the wali, the two whom we sent to guide you to the straight path. A Prophet and wali who are of each other. and celebrate the praise of your Lord, and Ali is among the witnesses.

                    The foregoing is an example of the Shi'ite lies which were attributed to `Ali (may Allah be pleased with him). That it is a slanderous fabrication is proven by the fact that `Ali never declared, during the whole period of his caliphate, that a third of the Qur'an was missing from the section mentioned above. He did not command the Muslims to record this "missing" portion, nor to seek guidance from it, nor to apply jurisprudential rulings derived from it.

                    There are two clear texts from Al-Kaafi of Al-Kulaini, which elucidate the Shi'ites' perverse position regarding the Qur'an. The first reads:

                    I heard Abu Jafar (upon whom be peace) say: "None of the people has claimed that he collected the Quran completely as it was revealed except a liar. No one collected and memorized the Qur'an as it was revealed except `Ali bin Abi Taalib and the Imams after him."

                    Every Shi'ite is required to believe in this text from Al-Kaafi as an article of their faith. As for us, Ahlus-Sunnah, we say that in fact the Shi'ites have falsely attributed the above text to a Sunni scholar and wali, Al-Baaqir Abu Ja'far. The proof of our position is that `Ali, during the period of his caliphate in Kufah, never resorted to or applied any version of the Qur'an other than that with which Allah had favored the Caliph `Uthman by the distinction of its collection, publication and popularization and by its legal application in all Islamic lands for all time up to the Day of Judgment. If it were true that `Ali had a different version of the Qur'an he surely would have applied it in making legal rulings, and he would have commanded the Muslims to abide by its injunctions and guidance. Clearly, since he was the supreme ruler, none would have challenged his authority to do this.

                    Furthermore, if indeed `Ali had a different version of the Qur'an and concealed it from the Muslims, then he would have betrayed Allah, His Messenger and the religion of Islam by so doing. As for Jaabir Al-Ju'fi who claims that he heard that blasphemous conversation from the Imam Abi Ja'far Muhammad Al-Baaqir, it must be noted that although the Shi'ites consider him a trustworthy narrator of traditions, the fact is that he is well known in the Sunni schools of theology as a liar and forger of traditions. Abu Yahya Al-Hammani reported that he heard the Imam Abu Hanifa saying, "Ataa' is the best i.e., the most truthful and precise in reporting from amongst those I have come across in the field of transmitting traditions, while Jaabir Al-Ju'fi is the greatest liar I have come across amongst them."

                    The second of the two texts from Al-Kaafi mentioned above, is attributed to another wali, Ja'far As-Saadiq, the son of Al-Baaqir. It reads:

                    It is related that Abu Baser said: "I entered upon Abu `Abdullah [Ja'far As-Sadiq]... [Who] said `Verily we have with us the Qur'an of Fatimah (upon whom be peace).' I said: `What is the Qur'an of Fatimah?' He replied: `It contains three times as much as this Qur'an of yours. By Allah, it does not contain one single letter of your Qur'an'

                    These fabricated Shi'ite texts which are falsely attributed to the Imams of Ahlu-l-Bayt are of fairly early date. They were recorded by Muhammed bin Ya'qoob Al-Kulaini Ar-Razi in the book Al-Kaafi over a thousand years ago, and they are from before his time, because they were narrated on the authority of his ancestors, the master engineers of the false foundations of Shi'ism. During the time when Spain was under the reign of Muslims, the Imam Abu Muhammad bin Hazam used to debate with Spain's priests regarding the texts of their sacred books. He used to bring forth proofs which established their having been tampered with, and altered so much that their authentic origins had been lost. Those priests used to argue with Ibn Hazam that the Shi'ites had asserted that the Qur'an also had been altered. Ibn Hazam refuted their argument by replying that the allegation of the Shi'ites is not a proof against the Qur'an, nor against the Muslims.

                    The attention of the governments of all Muslim nations must be drawn to the dangerous and distorted views of the (So-called) Shi'ite Twelve Imams, or Ja'fari sect. It is their view that all governments from the death of the Prophet until now are illegitimate, except for that of `Ali bin Abi Taalib. It is therefore not permissible for any Shi'ite to be loyal to those governments or sincere in dealing with them. Indeed, they must engage in flattery and hypocrisy, in accordance with their tenet of taqiyyah. They consider all past, present, and future governments in the Muslim world to be established by forcible seizure, and therefore illegal. According to them, the only legitimate rulers are the Twelve Imams, whether they ruled directly or indirectly, and all other rulers, from the time of Abu Bakr and `Umar until the present time, are con- sidered usurpers, and oppressors of the people. The Shi'ites tenaciously hold this perverse view of the Muslim rulers regardless of the great services they have rendered to the noble cause of Islam, and to humanity in general.

                    Thus, any person would be counted as an enemy of the Prophet's family merely by his giving precedence of rank to Abu Bakr As-Siddeeq and `Umar Al-Farooq, and by his acknowledging their positions as imams. The expression "Al-jibt wa-t-taaghoot" is used by the Shi'ites in the prayer of imprecation which they call "Du'aa Sanamay Quraish" (imprecation against the two idols of the Quraish). They mean by these expressions, the two caliphs Abu Bakr and `Umar (may Allah be pleased with them). This vicious Shi'ite prayer of imprecation is mentioned in their book Miftahul-Jinaan; it reads: "O Allah, bestow Your blessings upon the Holy Prophet Muhammad and upon his family, and curse the two idols of the Quraish, their Al-jibt wa-t-taaghoot, as well as their two daughters..." They are referring to the two Mothers of the Believers, Aa'ishah and Hafsah, the pure and noble wives of the Prophet (may Allah be pleased with them).

                    The hatred the Shi'ites have for the Caliph `Umar reached such a pitch that they gave his murderer Abu Lu'lu'ah Al-Majoosi the title "Baba Shujaa'ud-Din" (the one who is brave in the cause of religion).

                    `Ali bin Mathahir, a Shi'ite narrator of traditions, reported that Ahmad bin Ishaq Al-Qummi Al-Ahwas, a leader of the Shi'ites, said: "Verily the day ` Umar was murdered is the greatest day of celebration, the day of pride and honour, the day of the great purification and the day of blessing and consolation."

                    In the history of Islam there have been many great personalities, men like the two Caliphs Abu Bakr and `Umar and the great warrior Salahuddin Al-Ayyoobi, who ruled for the sake of Islam, and who liberated various lands and peoples and brought them into the fold of Islam. Yet these great men, and indeed all of the great rulers of Islam, past and present, are believed by the Shi'ites to be overpowering tyrants and illegal rulers and consequently, are considered to be in habitants of Hell-Fire. Among the Shi'ites' most important tenets is the belief that when their Twelfth Imam, the awaited Mahdi, rises and comes forth after his long absence of over eleven hundred years, and brings his revolution, then Allah will resurrect for him and for his forefathers, the past and present Muslim rulers, including the two noble Caliphs Abu Bakr and `Umar. Those Muslim rulers will then be tried for having illegally seized the reins of government from the Mahdi and his ancestors, the first eleven Imams of the Shi'ite religion. This, as they believe, is because government is the God-given right of the Shi'ites alone, from the time of the Prophet Muhammad' death until the Final Hour!

                    After the trial of those "tyrannous usurpers", this awaited Mahdi will awaken himself by ordering their execution. Five hundred of them at a time will be killed until their number reaches three thousand. this being the total of all who ruled during the various eras of the history of Islam!

                    All of this is supposed to occur just before the final revival of mankind on the Day of Resurrection! It is a prelude, as it were, to that final great gathering and resurrection, the result of which is either Paradise or Hell-Fire; Paradise for Ahlu-l-Bayt and the Shi'ites, and the Fire for everyone who is not a Shi'ite!

                    The Shi'ites call this resurrection of the Muslim rulers, and the subsequent trial and execution, "Ar-Raj'ah" (the return). This belief is one of the fundamental tenets of their faith, which no common Shi'ite doubts at all. I have met a number of naive and simple-minded people who claim that the Shi'ites have departed from such tenets as these in recent times; however, this is a gross error on their part as is evident from the actual state of affairs.

                    Sunni Muslims, of course, do believe in the advent of the awaited Imam al-Mahdi, announced in authoritative ahadith, but they neither accept the Shi'ite understanding of his role, nor identify him with the son of Imam Hasan al-'Askari.

                    While on the one hand the Shi'ites shamelessly defame the Companions of the Messenger of Allah, and those who followed them in piety, and succeeded them as rulers, on the other hand we find them ascribing to their Imams attributes of such extravagant description, that the Imams themselves would wish to declare their innocence of them.

                    Al-Kulaini recorded in his book Al-Kaafi attributes and descriptions of the Twelve Imams such as would imply their elevation from the human level to that of the gods of the ancient Greek pagans. To quote all such fables from Al-Kaafi and other books would require a large volume. By way of illustration, it will suffice to list some of the chapter headings from Al-Kaafi:

                    * "The Imams possess all the knowledge granted to angels, Prophets and messengers"

                    * "The Imams know when they will die, and they do not die except by their own choice"

                    * "The Imams have knowledge of whatever occurred in the past and whatever will happen in the future, and nothing is concealed from them"

                    * The Imams have knowledge of all the revealed books, regardless of the languages in which they were revealed"

                    * "No one compiled the Qur'an completely except the Imams, and they encompass all of its knowledge'

                    * "Signs of the Prophets are possessed by the Imams"

                    * "When the Imams' time comes, they will rule in accordance with the ruling of the Prophet David and his dynasty. These Imams will not need to ask for presentation of evidence before passing their judgments"

                    * "There is not a single truth possessed by a people save that which originated with the Imams, and everything which did not proceed from them is false. All of the earth belongs to the Imams".

                    While the Shi'ites claim for the Twelve Imams the superhuman power of knowledge that encompasses the realm of the unseen, they deny the Prophet's knowledge of unseen things granted him by Allah, things such as the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the description of Paradise and Hell-Fire.

                    This blasphemy was stated in the magazine Risalatul-lslam (The Message of. Islam), published by Darut-Taqreeb. In an article entitled Min Ijtihaadati Shi'a Al-lmamia (Some Independent Shi'ite Opinions), the head of the Shi'ite supreme court in Lebanon quoted the Mujtahid scholar Muhammad Hasan Al-lshtiyani: "If the Prophet made a stipulation regarding the divine legal rulings on what invalidates ablution, or the rulings pertaining to menstruation and post-natal bleeding, it is imperative to believe him, and the application of these rulings is binding upon us. But if the Prophet made a statement regarding the unseen, for example on the creation of the heavens and earth, or the virgins of Paradise and its palaces, then it is not incumbent or binding upon one, even when it is known of a surety that the statement has proceeded from the Prophet."

                    How strange, that they should falsely attribute to their Imams knowledge of the unseen, and that they should adhere to that falsehood although they have not a single proof to establish its verity.

                    Meanwhile they consider that they are not bound to accept the revelations of the unseen mentioned in verses of the Qur'an and authentic traditions, and thereby conclusively proven.

                    He who makes a comparison between what the Shi'ites ascribe to their Imams and what is authentically attributed to the Prophet regar-ding matters of the unseen comes to the conclusion that what can be verified to issue from the Prophet regarding the unseen, as mentioned in the Qur'an and the authentic, authoritative traditions does not even constitute a fraction of the multitude of fabricated reports of knowledge of the unseen which are attributed to the Twelve Imams; and this in spite of the indisputable fact that divine revelation had ceased upon the death of the Prophet.

                    As for those who attributed this knowledge of the unseen to the Twelve Imams, it suffices to say that they are well known to the Sunni scholars of hadith (Prophetic traditions) as liars, and forgers of hadeth literature. The Shi'ite partisans of those narrators are indifferent to this, however, and blindly accept the accounts of the unseen which are imputed to their Imams. They also gladly accept the claim that acceptance of what had been authentically attributed to the Prophet with regard to the unseen is not binding upon them. In fact, it pleases them to limit the scope of the mission of the Messenger of Allah to matters of a secondary juridical nature, such as those mentioned by Al-lshtiyani (see above).

                    Since they elevate the status of their Imams, in regard to knowledge of the unseen, above that of the Messenger of Allah (even though it was he who received the revelation; their Imams did not claim it for themselves), we do not know how there could develop, after such blasphemy, any reconciliation between us and them.


                    Please answer. I did try to indirectly warn you, but like usual you did not take heed!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Good cut & paste jobs,

                      How much of this information have you verified ? Or is it that your wahabi scholars always speak the divine truth ?

                      You are indeed a joke to yourself.

                      * "The Imams possess all the knowledge granted to angels, Prophets and messengers"

                      - True. All knowledge possessed by the Imams (as) originate from the holy prophet (pbuh) who received the message from Gabriel who brought down the divinely knowledge from Allah (swt).

                      * "The Imams know when they will die, and they do not die except by their own choice"

                      - True. The imams knew the time of their death, as the holy apostle (pbuh) knew the time of his death when he declared that he would be leaving this world to join his Creator, as all such information is provided by Allah (swt) WHO IS THE SOLE POSSESSOR of such knowledge. He (swt) gives such knowledge (ilm -e wahi) to whomsoever He pleases.

                      * "The Imams have knowledge of whatever occurred in the past and whatever will happen in the future, and nothing is concealed from them"

                      - True. All source of such knowledge is provided by Allah (swt) to whomsoever He pleases. The most knowledgeable was our holy apostle (pbuh), the Master and seal of all prophets. All knowledge of the Imams stem from our holy rasul (pbuh) who in turn was taught through revelation by the Almighty (swt).

                      * The Imams have knowledge of all the revealed books, regardless of the languages in which they were revealed"

                      - See above. Not a big deal.

                      * "No one compiled the Qur'an completely except the Imams, and they encompass all of its knowledge'

                      - True. Only the holy apostle (pbuh) and his chosen ahl bait knew the correct sequence and true meaninging the quranic ayat. The usmani complilation, the ONLY QURAN IN EXISTENCE, is correct in content except for the order in which the ayats were revealed. All muslims have this one Qur'an. Anythingelse is a fabrication and a lie.

                      * "Signs of the Prophets are possessed by the Imams"

                      - True. Humility. Nobility. Knowledge. Forebearance. Faith in the Almighty (swt)..... These are attributes that the Almighty (swt) instills in his chosen holy creations. The best of creations being our holy apostle (pbuh), who was sent as a mercy to mankind.

                      * "When the Imams' time comes, they will rule in accordance with the ruling of the Prophet David and his dynasty. These Imams will not need to ask for presentation of evidence before passing their judgments"

                      - True. What is so unbelievable about this ? When the final occultation of our holy Imam, Imam Mehdi (as) will be over (the knowledge of which resides with Allah (swt) only), he will rule the ummat in accordance with the laws of the Almighty (swt) and his holy apostle (pbuh).

                      * "There is not a single truth possessed by a people save that which originated with the Imams, and everything which did not proceed from them is false. All of the earth belongs to the Imams".

                      - True. Meaning, after the holy apostle (pbuh), the imams (as) were and are the sole possessors of the absolute truth. The truth, which was taught to them by Allah (swt) and his holy apostle (pbuh).

                      Amazing that here we have someone who believes that the holy apostle (pbuh) was an illiterate man, who became a prophet after 40 years, and who was prone to mistakes, accusing the lovers of the prophet (pbuh) and his holy ahl bait that we would chose not to believe in the teachings of the holy apostle (pbuh).

                      LOL. Go get a life.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        a1shah lol

                        he forgot to writ some references and who really has time to read all that..i am sorry but whats the purpose of discussion?
                        dont write too much at once and provide references

                        Allah created Prophet Mohummad before he created the world

                        a1shah there is no point in arguing with them..they think Prophet was illetrate so why would they give any importance to His beloved family?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          ~wrapper~

                          Are you saying that the four Imams did not follow the Qur'an and Sunnah?

                          You said:

                          Not according to the understandings of their own self or their own imams or scholars.

                          How did you come about this understanding? Isn't this your understanding?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            " Hazrat Abu Bakr led prayers, 17 times during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet PBUH"

                            YA SURE! WHAT A LIE.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              salam to all,

                              hmmmmm, seems like we have some VERY HIGHLY KNOWLEDGEABLE SCHOLARS debating who is right and who is wrong.... hmmmmmmmm again.

                              according to a1shah if I add to my attributes:
                              knowledge of when I die
                              knowledge of other holy book

                              I can be an Imam too.... wow, wonderful etc. I bet most of the answers are influenced by the instrument "taqiyya".

                              After all this discussion back and forth, please tell me who is convinced that other sect is right? I bet 100000000% that no one did. Everyone sticks to his beleifs he learned through his parents/ulemas. Did you guys think that this is the only time in all this history that no one ever tried to merge/reconcile the two sects? a lot more knowledgeable scholars than you guys and ulemas have attempted but failed. why? the reason is that everyone can think, and make his/her own conclusions but not everyone has courage to admit that he/she could be wrong. remember what happened to discussion/arguments ulema had in Bahgdad and Koofa which WERE prime places for knowledge but then people indulged themself arguing about minor things and were overcome by their enemies and easily destroyed... who destroyed/killed them? I'm not a historian, I don't know.

                              Bottomline is, keep following your religion in its true sense and seek guidance from THE CREATOR and HE will judge who is right and who is wrong. We can't classify sect as kafirs or munafiqs.

                              ------------------
                              We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

                              [This message has been edited by Changez_like (edited May 23, 2001).]

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X